help please

[persianbel]

firstly, i apologize for crashing your forum, but i am looking for some advice.

a friend of mine is mormon (i am not) and is having an affair outside his marriage. i want to know what the consequences for him would be if this was ever to become public knowledge. i have read things online, but i would prefer a more "real" view from people who are actually members of his faith.

would he be excommunicated, lose his children? ruin his life?

thank you in advance.

Edited June 27, 2010 by persianbel
mispelt word

[pam]

First I would want to know why you have such a personal interest in what his consequences would be? Wouldn't that be something he should be worried about instead?

[john doe]

would he be excommunicated, lose his children? ruin his life?

Possibly. It varies with each case.

[persianbel]

@ pam, because he is a friend and he has confided in me. i find it very hard to know what to say when i have a very narrow understanding of the workings of his church.

[john doe]

He's a Christian. We believe in the Law of Chastity, which means you don't have sexual relations with people whom you are not married to, among other things. He knows he sinned. I don't know what else you can say to him other than to encourage him to go to the proper church authorities and repent.

[persianbel]

i take divorce is a massive taboo then?

i have told him he is playing with fire, and needs to think about the effects this could have. he seems to be unable to stay away from this other "woman"

i guess you're right, there is not much i can do. i just wondered as i am from a secular background, and it's hard to have a conversation about things you are fairly ignorant about.

[tubaloth]

would he be excommunicated,

Could be. If the "woman" is also LDS, then probably.

lose his children?

The church doesn't have the power to Lose children. lol. But probably lose respect from his children, most likely.

ruin his life?

Depends on what yours (and his) definition of ruin is?

I think we both know that the path your friend is on isn't a good and or happy life?

I just with your friend would realize this!

i take divorce is a massive taboo then?

Some what, but it does happen, and probably should in this situation (when your friend doesn't care about who he is hurting, probably should get a way from him).

[baver3]

I think the "consequences" as far as the church go, or as far as the world goes, would be less of a worry than the eternal consequences.

I believe he would most likely be excommunicated...but you never know. It depends on how sorrowful he is in his sin. You said at this point he cant stay away from this woman. Sounds to me he is NOT ready to let go of this sin and turn back to God. He may have a long road ahead of him.

He has made a very very grave mistake playing with this fire. The consequences will extend into the lives of his children and the rest of his life. He may lose friends from church and will definately lose the respect of nearly everyone around him. I dont guess anyone can look fondly on a relationship sparked by lust, deceit and selfishness when children are involved and a conscience effort has been made to abandon the committments made to his wife.

How tragic.

I hope you can be supportive to your friend. Continue to encourage him but I would definately say D NOT CONDONE his behavior. Dont allow him to NOT be responsible for his behavior. I would have a hard time staying friends with someone who was willing to leave his wife and children because of a two-penny trash attempt to degrade the covenants he made in the temple.

It is so much more serious than a civil marriage.

Divorce is not taboo. Lots of LDS people are divorced. It just all depends on how it happened, the sin and the crap that comes along with the reasons of the divorce.

Your friend is going to have to start all over if he wants any chance of gaining the respect of anyone. and like someone else pointed out, that INCLUDES his children.

[persianbel]

I told him to think about splitting up with his wife, after reading these replies perhaps that was an inappropriate thing to say. It certainly didn't occur to me to tell him to go to the Church for help, what are they going to do? I do honestly think that if he is cheating then surely the marriage is over, regardless of whether he carries on fooling around? But then that is my understanding of how relationships would work, I am aware all religions will work differently.

I don't condone his behaviour, but nor will I be massively judgemental. If there are judgements to be made I will leave that to the higher powers, I am far from perfect myself. The only thing I struggle with is his children, they are the innocent ones stuck in the middle.

One final question, then I promise I will leave this alone. What if he wants to be with this other woman? She isn't LDS, from what I can tell.

Thanks.

[rameumptom]

LDS view this as an issue of saving the soul. Christ said that if your eye offends, then pluck it out.

Your friend is lying to his wife, his children, to God, to the Church and himself. There is a road to repentance, but it begins by being honest with all of these. Only Christ can forgive for sins, but part of the repentance process Christ expects is to confess to those offended and to make restitution. In the case of the Church, it could include excommunication or a lesser level of judgment. This is based upon his willingness to repent, and the covenants he has made. His example is probably known not only to you, but to others, and it makes a bad example for the Church. All this is taken into consideration. The focus, though, is how to help the person fully repent and leave the sin behind.

It won't be the Church that ruins his life. It will be his own choices that have done this. And a real Christian faces up to his sins and fixes them.

[Tarnished]

firstly, i apologize for crashing your forum, but i am looking for some advice.

a friend of mine is mormon (i am not) and is having an affair outside his marriage. i want to know what the consequences for him would be if this was ever to become public knowledge. i have read things online, but i would prefer a more "real" view from people who are actually members of his faith.

would he be excommunicated, lose his children? ruin his life?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I told him to think about splitting up with his wife, after reading these replies perhaps that was an inappropriate thing to say. It certainly didn't occur to me to tell him to go to the Church for help, what are they going to do? I do honestly think that if he is cheating then surely the marriage is over, regardless of whether he carries on fooling around? But then that is my understanding of how relationships would work, I am aware all religions will work differently.

I don't condone his behaviour, but nor will I be massively judgemental. If there are judgements to be made I will leave that to the higher powers, I am far from perfect myself. The only thing I struggle with is his children, they are the innocent ones stuck in the middle.

One final question, then I promise I will leave this alone. What if he wants to be with this other woman? She isn't LDS, from what I can tell.

Speaking from experience, he could be excommunicated, it really depends on whether or not he wants to repent for what he is doing.

Losing his children would only happen if he and his wife divorced and she got full custody of the children, even then he would probably have visiting rights. The church would not do anything that would cause him to lose his children.

Ruin his life? Possibly, but then again the possibility of ruining your life is a choice a person makes when they choose to enter into an affair. It really would depend on how he decided to move forward from the affair.

I had an affair, and my husband and I worked it out and are still together today. But then again I wanted to repent and I wanted to leave the affair behind. If he has given up on his family and would rather have this other woman then that is his choice and it may end up ruining his family. It really depends on how he and his wife choose to deal with the affair. People are very different from each other, one person may be willing to forgive and another may not.

If he is unhappy with his marriage then that is something he should work out between himself and his wife. Usually when an affair happens there are problems on both sides that need to be worked on. The big difference is he made the choice to sin rather than work things out with his wife, thus he will have to repent for that sin at some point, whether in this life or the next.

If he wants to be with this other woman then so be it. It will ruin his marriage and very probaby his family as well. But it is a choice he will have to make. Does the church approve of it? Of course not. And choosing the other woman would probably result in his excommunication. But it all comes down to his choices and how much repenting he chooses to do.

[mormonwifey]

First of all,when we are preparing to be baptized,we take the promise to be faithful,to not be involved with anybody except for our spouse.Being intimate with somebody besides your spouse is considered to be "sexual immorality" and the person has to repent.He needs to stop the affair and be true to his wife and our christ

[persianbel]

First of all,when we are preparing to be baptized,we take the promise to be faithful,to not be involved with anybody except for our spouse.Being intimate with somebody besides your spouse is considered to be "sexual immorality" and the person has to repent.He needs to stop the affair and be true to his wife and our christ

He's not stopping the affair, and I can't make him. It's sexually immorality in any culture or religion not just Mormonism, I feel the need to point that out, I am not sure why.

But thank you for all your advie people.

[bl80920335]

The punishment is dependant upon a number of things. Primarily his level of sorrow and attempts at forgiveness and the inspiration of those who responsible for the church punishment. It can vary case by case.

[mhsmd]

If he has been endowed in the temple, he will be excommunicated. He made covenants in the temple, and by because he broke them it is better that those covenants be taken away. It is part of his repentance process. As for his wife and children, it will depend on the choices that his wife makes after finding out the truth.

The truth is, he is being dishonest in the lowest, dirtiest way. He needs to tell his wife. If he wants to leave her, he should just be a man and do it. If he doesn't want to leave her, then he should be a man and stop the affair and salvage what might remain of his marriage. An affair is the most cowardly thing a person can do. It is never, ever the right thing. He needs to face the consequences of his actions, whatever those consequences may be. (I know a man who had an affair with a woman, was excommunicated, and is now preparing to be sealed in the temple to that woman. What he did was still very, very wrong. But things will work out if your friend faces the consequences of his actions.)

[rameumptom]

This is not always the case, mhsmd. I'm on a high council, and frequently the Lord directs the stake presidency and high council to not excommunicate, but to do something else that will increase the chances of the person repenting and returning to the Lord. I've seen former bishops disfellowshipped, and other endowed members only receive formal probation. It all depends on the situation and the Spirit of the Lord.

[mhsmd]

Interesting. I guess it worked differently in my stake. My stake president was a stickler for the rules, and he always went by the guidelines in the manual.

[rameumptom]

Is that the old or current manual? The current manual differs greatly from the previous one in regards to the judgments made during a disciplinarian council. We are encouraged to find the best solution that will help the person repent. In the past, we excommunicated very quickly, and that led to many good people who went astray to not come back to the Church. In the past, excommunication usually required years of exile, when perhaps it shouldn't.