Breastfeeding in LDS Meetings


maureenjscott
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi. I was having a wonderfully spiritual testimony meeting until my husband and I were called into the Bishop's office after our meetings.

I have a 13week old baby boy. I have breastfed him since he was hours old and for the past 13 weeks I have nursed him during RS meetings on a Sunday, RS activities, Sunday school class, Sacrament meeting (after the Sacrament part of the meeting ie during talks), Stake RS activities, and, as i'm a counsellor in primary, have nursed him during primary. The so-called 'Mother's Lounge' in our building is about the size of a toilet cubicle, attached to the ladies toilets. It has a sink, mirror, fold out changing table and a small fold down 'seat'. Basically making me feel like i'm relegated to a cupboard so I have not used this 'room' for feeding my son.

I am discreet, I sit as far back in the room as possible. I have a 9yo son and 4yo daughter also and so need to be there for them during Sacrament meeting. I live in Scotland and the Law of the Land here states that any person feeding their child by bottle or breast up to the age of 2 cannot be asked to leave, move, stop or cover up - anyone attempting to do this is liable to be fined approx £2500.

I have been a member for 8 years, sealed to my family for almost 5. I think of the members as my family. I have fed all of my children in numerous places over the years - restaurants, buses, trains, parks, cinemas, anywhere we have been and they have needed fed I have done so discreetly and without any fuss or issues from anyone.

Imagine today my shock to be asked by my Bishop to stop feeding my son during meetings!

Are there any sisters out there reading this who can shed some light on practices in your country/stake/ward/branch? Does anyone have any advice on how this could be handled?

Both my husband and I have scoured the internet looking for the Church's take on this and what we can find is that mother's are supported and indeed encouraged by the Church to breastfeed - there are no guidelines as to where or when or how this should be done.

Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks for reading this

maureen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 85
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Well, firstly, it's not wise to try and fault with bishop's council. I am sure his request for the comfort of those around. Secondly, here in the States, when women breastfeed, they tend to cover up with a blanket over the child and shoulder. I live with my brother and his wife who is now breastfeeding. She covers when I am in the room. I don't know if you are covering up or not. But I can tell you, that if you are not, from a male perspective, there will be a few teenage boys that might be more willing to offer you the sacrament when you are breastfeeding. No matter how beautiful the act of nursing is, it still exposes a body part that can excite young boys (and older) :) However, if you are indeed covering up with a blanket over your child and shoulder, I don't see the problem. We may not agree with what are bishops say, but it is our responsibility to listen and heed their council. He may have a perspective on the matter that you don't. Some people may have complained about the act. He needs to take the concerns of others in consideration. The last thing we need is our priesthood holders to lose the spirit of the sacrament over an exposed breast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm never very good with confrontation, but I do have strong opinions on breastfeeding. I always used a blanket, and tried to be very discreet, but even that is not required by law. Thankfully I usually found myself in nursing friendly crowds, and I was never asked to change my practices in church or any other public setting. For the most part I've found that other members in wards I've been in hold a similar opinion. If anyone didn't, it was likely they had never had children. I would respectfully hold my ground, although I don't really know the proper way to go about things should the bishop insist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am quite frankly shocked, I am also in Scotland its not the US, and it is an entirely normal sight here to see women feeding their babies. I have also fed my children in all manner of places with nothing but the odd positive comment. Anyone who feels uncomfortable is the one because of the law who should leave.

I don't know what I would do to be honest, like you our Mother's Lounge is in the baby changing room at the back of the ladies toilets (I have my own issues with it being attached to the ladies lol) I refused to feed my baby there, I often fed them in RS and Gospel Doctrine - not in sacrament but only because it was nap time and I felt the classroom at the back of the chapel was quieter.

I am having my own issues right now so not a good person to ask otherwise.

Edited by Gwen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, firstly, it's not wise to try and fault with bishop's council. I am sure his request for the comfort of those around. Secondly, here in the States, when women breastfeed, they tend to cover up with a blanket over the child and shoulder. I live with my brother and his wife who is now breastfeeding. She covers when I am in the room. I don't know if you are covering up or not. But I can tell you, that if you are not, from a male perspective, there will be a few teenage boys that might be more willing to offer you the sacrament when you are breastfeeding. No matter how beautiful the act of nursing is, it still exposes a body part that can excite young boys (and older) :) However, if you are indeed covering up with a blanket over your child and shoulder, I don't see the problem. We may not agree with what are bishops say, but it is our responsibility to listen and heed their council. He may have a perspective on the matter that you don't. Some people may have complained about the act. He needs to take the concerns of others in consideration. The last thing we need is our priesthood holders to lose the spirit of the sacrament over an exposed breast.

err doesn't need to expose anything, I am more than capable of breastfeeding my children minus blanket without even a slither of flesh showing. All it takes is a vest top underneath, And given as she is in Scotland most people are used to seeing Mums feeding babies, like my husband said it was a bit surprising at first but now its normal. I personally believe the blanket is less discreet and my babies hated being covered. If you breastfeed quietly in the chapel only the people close to you will notice, if you cover up everyone knows what you are doing.

I am of the firm belief if a man can't control his thoughts he should be the one disturbing his sacrament. Mother's have a hard enough time when dealing with young children feeling the spirit at meetings and being edified. I bet that priesthood holder has probably happily sat through two meetings having his needs met.

But having said that I have found teenage American missionaries from large families the most relaxed about me feeding my children, as they have seen it before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say I'm with your bishop. The mother's room at my building is attached to the back of the Relief Society room and is actually the size of a small classroom, big enough that there are four comfortable armchairs in it. When I was breastfeeding my daughter, there were at least seven or eight other breastfeeding moms in the ward, and our scheduled often seemed to overlap. There were days when I nursed my daughter while sitting on the floor in that room, because all the chairs were occupied. It wasn't the end of the world. I have a friend whose daughter drank breast milk, but refused to nurse, so my friend sat in a bathroom stall pumping, then went and fed her daughter. It wasn't the end of the world.

I've nursed in a large group room during Relief Society meetings on Sunday or during Relief Society activities, but only after asking the people immediately around me if they were comfortable with it. Whether the breast is a sexual object or a source of food, it may still be offensive or -- at the very least -- distracting to many when in a public and religious setting. I think it is a modesty issue and that for the consideration of others in that particular setting, that you should remove yourself to another location. If you don't want to use the mother's room, find a different classroom. Unless your husband is in the bishopric or frequently absent due to a stake calling, there shouldn't be any reason why he can't manage your other two children while you feed your baby.

All that said, I don't know what to say about your situation with regards to the local law and apparent violation of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If what your bishop says violates the law, it needs to be brought to his attention and the law should be heeded.

I have strong feelings about breast feeding, and about infant care in general. I would be very hesitant to tell a woman that she had to leave the chapel to nurse an infant. Instead, I think it's fair to make arrangements for her to sit in a location that will be both comfortable and as minimally distracting as possible. I also think it's fair to ask her to cover up (in the US--that's our culture). But under no circumstances should a woman have to miss participation in any part of Sacrament meeting in order to nurse her child.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hidden

I had mission companions in South America who were from Utah who tried to tie public breastfeeding into our discussions involving the law of chastity. I suspected it was a cultural difference that some assumed involved Church teachings. Of course, that was at a time when breastfeeding in the US wasn't the thing to do for most Americans, especially in certain states. Things have changed since then.

But more to the point, have you spoken with your stake president? It wouldn't hurt, if for no other reason than to express your concerns. And it's not as though you're undermining the bishop's authority. Granted, he'll likely advice you to follow what the bishop tells you. However, I know of a number of instances where speaking with the stake president helped clarify certain issues and policies for a bishop/branch president. I find it interesting that what the bishop advices is against the laws of the land, which we're taught to uphold. I don't mean to imply that the bishop is wrong and doesn't have valid reasons for his request, but it might be nice to at least talk to the stake president and get his advice as well.

Link to comment

i would ask the bishop why he was bringing it up. did someone complain? if so what was the complaint? is it just him? does he know the law? etc. just open a line of discussion with him. you don't have to know who on a complaint, you can't address something you don't know what it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to post a divergent opinion on this.

Breastfeeding is a necessary and natural thing. Women should be allowed to do it. Most women are just fine using it. They are discrete and normal.

However, I have known a woman or two who, if the baby murmured slightly during a face-to-face conversation with me, that woman would wrestle the breast out of her top, pop it in to the little tyke's mouth and carry on as if nothing was happening.

It was distracting. Cringeworthy distracting and slightly gross; It wasn't the breastfeeding, but rather the whole reaching-down-her-top-and-yanking-out-a-boob thing.

I'm not saying the OP is a woman like this. However, it's possible that there -is- a woman like this in your ward and the Bishop was having this conversation with all nursing mothers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I am discreet, I sit as far back in the room as possible. I have a 9yo son and 4yo daughter also and so need to be there for them during Sacrament meeting. I live in Scotland and the Law of the Land here states that any person feeding their child by bottle or breast up to the age of 2 cannot be asked to leave, move, stop or cover up - anyone attempting to do this is liable to be fined approx £2500....

...Imagine today my shock to be asked by my Bishop to stop feeding my son during meetings!...

Since you are discreet, I would remind your Bishop of the law and keep breastfeeding where ever you wish.

M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there is also the reverse. i know of a woman that due to medical reasons could not nurse her babies, she wanted to very badly and didn't handle this well. now she is massively sensitive to all women who nurse. she see's it as rubbing it in her face and therefore is very vocal about seeing a woman nurse or even talking about it. could be someone else like that complaining.

given all the "what if's" is why i suggested she ask the bishop for more info on the why of the conversation before getting to up in arms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so sorry that you are dealing with that from your bishop. He legally can't ask you to leave or cover up. I've dealt with similar issues in the past and have blogged about them a few times. the bee in your bonnet: Modesty and Breastfeeding

the bee in your bonnet: Inquisition Monday

the bee in your bonnet: Keepin' on

I hope those help you! Keep on giving your baby the best!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no "Church policy" on breastfeeding. The Lord doesn't "command in all things" and, in a global church, there is a wide variety of cultural acceptance of breast feeding. Nevertheless, one must consider that nursing is a form of intimate behavior. It's not sexual, but it is intimate behavior. The question is whether a sacrament meeting is the place for intimate behavior of any kind.

I'm a branch president in the United States. Here in the USA, we're still a little "squeamish" about breast feeding in public. A woman who might breast feed in public without covering up would be considered rather rude. If a woman did so in Church (without covering up) you'd have mothers of 14 year-old boys protesting to the bishop before he got to the door at the end of the meeting.

I served a mission in France and served in many areas populated primarily by Africans. They had no shyness about nursing a baby with other people around. It made us uncomfortable at first, but we adapted over time.

I asked my wife her opinion about breastfeeding in Church. She thought doing so in an environment where other families and other people's children area around was somewhat indiscreet. Some would say that "it's entirely natural," but so is loud flatulence and trimming one's toenails and we don't do those things in a church meeting either. Certain things are just more appropriate done in private. It's a matter of respect for the feelings of the those around us. To demand that an entire ward comply with the requirements of our personal comfort zone is a little much.

The people you should be asking is your sisters in the Relief Society. If there was a complaint to your bishop, I guarantee you that's where it originated. Most men are simply embarrassed by the whole topic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the real issue though on this thread is the law in Scotland. Unless I am misunderstanding where this person is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the real issue though on this thread is the law in Scotland.

Interestingly, that should be the real issue. However, the OP mentioned it only briefly, and chose instead to focus more on the propriety of breastfeeding in public.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interestingly, that should be the real issue. However, the OP mentioned it only briefly, and chose instead to focus more on the propriety of breastfeeding in public.

I live in Scotland and the Law of the Land here states that any person feeding their child by bottle or breast up to the age of 2 cannot be asked to leave, move, stop or cover up - anyone attempting to do this is liable to be fined approx £2500.

How many times should the OP say something that only needs to be said once?

M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you to all who have commented on this sensitive topic. 24 hours later and I still feel highly emotional and increasingly angry about the situation. I will try and answer a few comments from things that have been mentioned. The Bishop in our Ward was called to the position a week before this happened, he states that the instruction is coming from Stake - they having been there the week before to call him to his new position - I cant help feeling that one of those three men visiting have taken offence as nothing has been said the previous 12 weeks when i have done nothing different.

Well, firstly, it's not wise to try and fault with bishop's council. I am sure his request for the comfort of those around. Secondly, here in the States, when women breastfeed, they tend to cover up with a blanket over the child and shoulder. .... there will be a few teenage boys that might be more willing to offer you the sacrament when you are breastfeeding. No matter how beautiful the act of nursing is, it still exposes a body part that can excite young boys (and older) :) However, if you are indeed covering up with a blanket over your child and shoulder, I don't see the problem. ... He needs to take the concerns of others in consideration. The last thing we need is our priesthood holders to lose the spirit of the sacrament over an exposed breast.

I use a blanket to cover any exposed skin at my back or side, the baby lies across me covering my front and the neck line of my top covers the top of the breast - even my husband is at times unaware that i am feeding our son. I do not see the necessity in covering up the child - this makes no sense to me and, in my opinion, i dont think it is comfortable for him. I do not nurse while Sacrament is being blessed/passed. As i stated, i am discreet, if someone is watching me nurse my child, surely they require counselling - not I?

I have to say I'm with your bishop. The mother's room at my building is attached to the back of the Relief Society room and is actually the size of a small classroom, big enough that there are four comfortable armchairs in it. .... There were days when I nursed my daughter while sitting on the floor in that room, because all the chairs were occupied. It wasn't the end of the world. I have a friend whose daughter drank breast milk, but refused to nurse, so my friend sat in a bathroom stall pumping, then went and fed her daughter. It wasn't the end of the world.

I've nursed in a large group room during Relief Society meetings on Sunday or during Relief Society activities, but only after asking the people immediately around me if they were comfortable with it. Whether the breast is a sexual object or a source of food, it may still be offensive or -- at the very least -- distracting to many when in a public and religious setting. I think it is a modesty issue and that for the consideration of others in that particular setting, that you should remove yourself to another location. If you don't want to use the mother's room, find a different classroom. Unless your husband is in the bishopric or frequently absent due to a stake calling, there shouldn't be any reason why he can't manage your other two children while you feed your baby.

Wingnut - I am glad you have the facilities you have mentioned in your building, if only that were the case everywhere - even our stake building has a room no bigger than a toilet cubicle in which every nursing mother in the stake is supposed to use for instance during conferences! Sitting on the floor - no its not the end of the world, but i'm not going to do that when i'm in a perfectly good chair wherever my class happens to be at the time. As for expressing in a toilet cubicle, again no, not the end of the world, but i would be concerned with cleanliness/sterility etc. As for asking those around me if 'they' are comfortable or offended - as mentioned before, i am discreet and quite often my husband doesn't know i'm nursing, faffing about with a blanket etc just draws peoples attention to it!

Your comment regarding my husband dealing with the other children - yes he could - but the Bishop has stated that when i am feeding, i am to do so in a specific room which has a window in the door and my husband has to 'stand guard' to make sure no one can see me!!!!:mad::mad:

Oh Noes! Boobies!

At least that seems to be the response I am seeing here. The Bishop was, by Scottish Law, out of line and that is all that matters. It's your right to Breast Feed, exercise it.

Thanks Gabelpa - I have printed out copies of the Breastfeeding etc (Scotland) Act to give to my Bishop and for him to take to the Stake President advising them of the Law that they have broken. I will see what happens from there but fully intend to continue nursing as i have done for the last 13 weeks.

i would ask the bishop why he was bringing it up. did someone complain? if so what was the complaint? is it just him? does he know the law? etc. just open a line of discussion with him. you don't have to know who on a complaint, you can't address something you don't know what it is.

Gwen - thanks for your questions. As mentioned higher up here, the Stake Presidency were in attendance at our Ward last week and this demand seems to have come from them. Bishop stated that the Stake Pres had asked him to have a word with us about it. I would assume that he is unaware of the Law on this and so have printed copies of the relevant Act to take to him this Sunday with a view to discussing it with him. I was too emotional and taken aback yesterday to be able to discuss it, I am angry with myself for not bringing up the law and for agreeing to his demands. Hopefully, next Sunday I can be prepared spiritually and emotionally to be able to speak with him and discuss the situation with him.

I'm going to post a divergent opinion on this.

Breastfeeding is a necessary and natural thing. Women should be allowed to do it. Most women are just fine using it. They are discrete and normal.

However, I have known a woman or two who, if the baby murmured slightly during a face-to-face conversation with me, that woman would wrestle the breast out of her top, pop it in to the little tyke's mouth and carry on as if nothing was happening.

It was distracting. Cringeworthy distracting and slightly gross; It wasn't the breastfeeding, but rather the whole reaching-down-her-top-and-yanking-out-a-boob thing.

I'm not saying the OP is a woman like this. However, it's possible that there -is- a woman like this in your ward and the Bishop was having this conversation with all nursing mothers

Funkytown - I agree with your coment regarding the cringeworthy/distracting situation - and no i'm not like that woman! Also, I am the only nursing mother in the ward at the moment although another sister is due her first child in a few weeks and is planning to breastfeed - ideally i would hope to have a conclusion in one way or another so that she will be sure of herself and her options when it comes to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many times should the OP say something that only needs to be said once?

M.

My point was only that in focusing on the propriety issue over the law issue, the OP -- intentionally or otherwise -- minimized the legal issue.

Your comment regarding my husband dealing with the other children - yes he could - but the Bishop has stated that when i am feeding, i am to do so in a specific room which has a window in the door and my husband has to 'stand guard' to make sure no one can see me!!!!:mad::mad:

That's just ridiculous. If they're going to create a space -- however tiny -- for nursing mothers, then it should meet the needs of nursing mothers. The request that your husband "stand guard" makes me think that your local leadership is seeing this as a modesty issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since you are discreet, I would remind your Bishop of the law and keep breastfeeding where ever you wish.

M.

Thanks Maureen.

there is also the reverse. i know of a woman that due to medical reasons could not nurse her babies, she wanted to very badly and didn't handle this well. now she is massively sensitive to all women who nurse. she see's it as rubbing it in her face and therefore is very vocal about seeing a woman nurse or even talking about it. could be someone else like that complaining.

given all the "what if's" is why i suggested she ask the bishop for more info on the why of the conversation before getting to up in arms.

Thanks Gwen - I was concerned with this myself, a sister had had these problems and when I was speaking with her about it she could not have been more supportive of me. There was also a sister in my ward who was in hospital losing her unborn baby at the same time as i was giving birth, she came to me and expressed her support for me and my child and my breastfeeding (of course i realise that some people can say the opposite of what they feel to your face and may say something different to others but i feel very deeply that these sisters are genuine in there support).

I'm so sorry that you are dealing with that from your bishop. He legally can't ask you to leave or cover up. I've dealt with similar issues in the past and have blogged about them a few times.

I hope those help you! Keep on giving your baby the best!

Off to read these as soon as i finish this post! thanks Tophat

There is no "Church policy" on breastfeeding. The Lord doesn't "command in all things" and, in a global church, there is a wide variety of cultural acceptance of breast feeding. Nevertheless, one must consider that nursing is a form of intimate behavior. It's not sexual, but it is intimate behavior. The question is whether a sacrament meeting is the place for intimate behavior of any kind.

I'm a branch president in the United States. .....

I asked my wife her opinion about breastfeeding in Church. She thought doing so in an environment where other families and other people's children area around was somewhat indiscreet. Some would say that "it's entirely natural," but so is loud flatulence and trimming one's toenails and we don't do those things in a church meeting either. Certain things are just more appropriate done in private. It's a matter of respect for the feelings of the those around us. To demand that an entire ward comply with the requirements of our personal comfort zone is a little much. ...

Spamlds - Yes, there is no 'Church Policy', however, the things i have found from the Church fully support women and encourage us to do this for our children as far as possible. Yes, culture has a lot to do with it and in Scotland the law has been amended to ensure that women here feel supported in this - I always thought that as members of the Church we need to adhere to the law of the land, how can i sustain my leaders when they are breaking the law? I assume they do not know they are breaking a law which is why i will bring this up with my Bishop on Sunday. I am not demanding that my ward comply with my comfort - they do not seem to have a problem - it was visitors to the ward who have taken issue with this... I would hope that they also raised the issue of the 20yo young single sister who, being rather curvaceous, insists on wearing tight, low cut, revealing dresses on a Sunday and who is arguably showing far more to the congregation than I am while feeding my son.

I think the real issue though on this thread is the law in Scotland. Unless I am misunderstanding where this person is.

Interestingly, that should be the real issue. However, the OP mentioned it only briefly, and chose instead to focus more on the propriety of breastfeeding in public.

How many times should the OP say something that only needs to be said once?

M.

Thank you - my main concern is in relation to this law - I am assuming that my leaders are unaware of it and so am taking copies of the Act to my Bishop this Sunday for him to read and provide copies for him to give to Stake Pres also.

However, I was also keen to get an idea from other wards the 'norm' in there area. I believe I am the first in this ward to nurse as openly as i do (ie not in the mother's lounge!), at least in the 10 years I have been attending here. I have not visited any other wards so have no idea what goes on elsewhere in relation to this - i was hoping for some insight from other sisters as to what their experiences were.

thanks again for all the input

maureen x

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's just ridiculous. If they're going to create a space -- however tiny -- for nursing mothers, then it should meet the needs of nursing mothers. The request that your husband "stand guard" makes me think that your local leadership is seeing this as a modesty issue.

Yes, my husband feels this is entirely ridiculous also and has no intention of standing guard!

Can you clarify what you mean by a 'modesty issue'?

My feelings on this are that I am sealed in the Temple to my family and as such dress appropriately ie length of hem, sleeves, cut of neckline etc. I use a blanket to cover back/sides that may be exposed while feeding and my top covers the top of the breast - from what my husband and a couple of sisters i have spoken with have said - no inappropriate skin is on show and unless they are really looking to see they generally dont know i'm feeding my son other than the fact that the cover is in place.

thanks

m

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come on guys...policy on breastfeeding??? BREAST MILK is the FOOD for the baby! Do we need a policy whether it states if is right or not to feed a baby? My goodness, I think here in the US we are ridiculously prude about breastfeeding...it is funny considering we are in a society OBSESSED with BREASTS.

In my opinion, the Bishop has no right to ask you to STOP FEEDING your child in sacrament meeting. I can tell you one thing, if he tells me that (or anyone for that matter) I would say that those who are bothered about breastfeeding in public, they are probably STARING TOO MUCH.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share