What to do about illegal immigration?

[Traveler]

I have been thinking about illegal immigrants. I have tried to think of a solution but everything I have found or that I have thought of or that I see others suggest has already been tried and failed. Some things about illegal immigrants:

1. This is not a new problem. Illegal immigrants have been coming in from Mexico since before WWII.

2. Deporting illegal immigrants has not worked. Illegal immigrants can be back into the USA in less time than it takes to deport them.

3. Making it difficult to cross the border does not work – so far this year over 3,000 illegal immigrants have died trying to cross the border in Arizona alone.

4. Jailing illegal immigrants do not work – already in Border States as much as 60% of our prisons and jails are filled with illegal immigrants and it is already causing overcrowding and these are just the criminal elements – which are a small minority of illegal immigrants.

5. Passing laws to restrict illegal immigrants has not worked.

6. Cracking down on employers that employ illegal immigrants has not worked

I am wondering if we need to think more outside the box. For example perhaps we should think of reprisals against governments that do not restrict illegal immigration into our country. Or perhaps consider deporting illegal immigrants that have entered into the USA more than once to other countries other than the one they have been deported to previously. Or perhaps deporting them to other countries that have undocumented worker treaty with our country – allowing them to apply and earn they way back to the USA (or their original country) – but then this looks a little like slavery.

Anyway I am wondering about and open to any ideas some may have. I do not want to restrict thinking yet – I realize that there are some basic human rights that come into play but there must be something that can be done? Something! I have even wondered if we should take the stand of exploiting the situation for some benefit to the country and legal immigrants.

Is there a Christian solution? Or must we become un-Christian to solve this?

The Traveler

Edited July 6, 2010 by Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

How about hiring more pencil-pushers to reduce the ridiculous backlog of legal immigrant applications. Once we get a handle on processing the people we actually want in this country, then we can focus more efficiently on preventing those we do not want.

[Voyager]

Get rid of the anchor baby thing. It is time we amend the constitution and require one parent of a child born in the USA to be a citizen or have permanent residency. There are illegals here sho have given birth to 7 or 8 kids that are now officially American. Take that away.

And by the way, there are people in my ward in their 50s and 60s who have been out of a job for 2 years. And their unemployment is running out this summer. They are willing to do any work at all to keep mortgage payments. Many have applied at places their children have worked for but been turned down. Why on the earth do we need any guest workers excpet maybe in agriculture? We need to get to 0 unemployment here in the US of A and then we can talk about guest workers.

[Daniel2020]

Is there a Christian solution? Or must we become un-Christian to solve this?

"Christian solutions" seldom work with those willing to break the law. We are, after all, living in the Lone and Dreary World; the Telestial Kingdom will be a step up. Edited July 6, 2010 by Daniel2020

[gabelpa]

Illegal immigration will stand so long as employers are willing to get cheap labour and pay in cash. Those All American strawberries in the supermarket? Picked by illegals. The potatoes in your mash-in-a-box, the fields were tended by illegals. Heck, the house you are in may have had some illegals hammering nails or something. And you know why? They're cheap, economical, and from what I have seen, work pretty well, better than their American counterparts.

If you want to tackle illegal immigration, target the employers, and target the American work ethic, and sense of entitlement.

[Traveler]

I want to thank all that have responded. I really believe we need to become smart about this problem and not necessarily believe all the political propaganda being passed around concerning this problem.

My friend PC: There is a very profitable business in Mexico that does nothing but get people into the USA. Your solution may not work when competing against for profit organizations bent on getting anyone that will pay into the US; especially if they are willing to help bring in drugs or other illegal items.

Voyager: I agree getting rid of the anchor baby is a very good idea – thanks for bringing that up. However, that will not stem the tide – but it will help some with our economic drain with this problem.

Daniel: I am a little disappointed with your post – Christians can engage in war but they should not start them. I believe that capital punishment is within the capabilities of Christian behavior. But we need to be just and compassionate. But with all that said – I am looking for solutions and I am willing to consider anything at this point.

Gabelpa: I think you are missing the point. A baby sitter in the USA gets paid more than a medical doctor in Mexico. 80% of everybody in Mexico has plans to come to the USA by some means – legal or illegal. What kind of action are you willing to take against your sister and her husband for hiring a baby sitter while they go to the movies or to dinner? What resources do they have to guarantee they have not hired an illegal? Are you willing to go to jail if you make a mistake in hiring a sitter? Because there is no federal id required in this country – what rights are you willing to personally give up guaranteeing citizenship documentation and control of this at the federal level? Who is responsible for determining who is here legally and what actions are you suggesting employers are required before anyone is hired?

My point is that this has already been tired and has not worked well at all.

To all: There are all kinds of problems. Not only is illegal drug smuggling a problem but so are over-the-counter drugs, patent infringements, copyright infringements and label knock-offs. Every job currently held by an American citizen there are foreigners willing to do that same job for half the pay. In their country or even better in the USA if they can find some way to get here. Are we really willing to compete against that? Many countries are willing to use (in essence) slave labor to compete against USA and other free country workers. BTW that wealth is going somewhere. In essence this is an economic problem being fought against the very foundations of the world’s emplacements of power.

Just for fun – I wonder if any prophets of the restoration have had any suggestions.

The Traveler

[gabelpa]

The answer is simple then. Invade mexico, make it a State, and all their citizens US citizens. No more illegal immigrants, as they are all Americans now. Instantly makes the problem of mexican illegal immigrants go away.

[LocalFarms]

Put the candy on the top shelf.

[Hemidakota]

The answer is simple then. Invade mexico, make it a State, and all their citizens US citizens. No more illegal immigrants, as they are all Americans now. Instantly makes the problem of mexican illegal immigrants go away.

Reminds of the invasion we did in the 1800s (mexican US War of 1846-1848).

A decade later, in the Mexican–American War (1846–1848), the Marines made their famed assault on Chapultepec Palace, which overlooked Mexico City, their first major expeditionary venture.[93] Since marching to Mexico City would be a long and perhaps impossible venture, a combined force (containing some 200 Marines) under Major General Winfield Scott made an landing south of Veracruz on 9 March 1847 and captured the city on 29 March. From there, they fought their way to Mexico City and commenced their assault on 13 September.[94] The Marines were given the task of clearing the Chapultepec Castle, the "Halls of Montezuma", where they cut down the Mexican colors and ran up the Flag of the United States. The high mortality rate amongst officers and non-commissioned officers is memorialized in the dress uniform's "blood stripes",[95] as well as the line "From the Halls of Montezuma" in the Marines' Hymn.[80][81] Marines were later placed on guard duty at the palace and Captain Jacob Zeilin, a future Commandant, was made military governor. Marines also served as part of the Navy's blockade of Mexico that successfully prevented overseas arms and munitions from reaching the Mexican forces, and as part of the California Battalion under Major Archibald H. Gillespie;[96] engagements included the battles of Monterey, Los Angeles, Dominguez Rancho, San Pasqual, Rio San Gabriel, La Mesa, and 2nd Tabasco.[97] Other battles included the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Tuxpan, capturing La Paz, defending La Paz, Mulege, and capturing and defending San José del Cabo. (History of the United States Marine Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Perhaps, it is wiser to have one nation throughout the north and south continents - a union of states. Having a immigration problem, does it matter now?

[Just_A_Guy]

. . . and from what I have seen, work pretty well, better than their American counterparts.

If I were to make the opposite assertion, I'd be shouted down as a racist in about two seconds flat.

Just sayin'.

[Suzie]

Tackle the problem by attacking the employers. They won't be here unless someone is willing to hire them.

Having said that, I am against illegal immigration.

[Just_A_Guy]

Quite bluntly, the only way you can stop illegal immigration is to make it worse for them here, than it would be in their home countries.

But you can't do that effectively without either a) wrecking America for the rest of us, or b) doing some form of discrimination that probably won't pass Constitutional muster.

[Wingnut]

Quite bluntly, the only way you can stop illegal immigration is to make it worse for them here, than it would be in their home countries.

Or fix the Mexican economy. But seeing as how we can't seem to fix our own right now...

[gabelpa]

We just need to build another Great Wall that can be seen from space. It will take decades to build and we can get a bunch of illegals to do it too.

[Dravin]

We just need to build another Great Wall that can be seen from space. It will take decades to build and we can get a bunch of illegals to do it too.

Am I sensing a stimulus package?

I have been thinking about illegal immigrants. I have tried to think of a solution but everything I have found or that I have thought of or that I see others suggest has already been tried and failed.

I think we need to identify the problem before we can identify the solution (shoot me, I'm sounding like a politician).

If the problem is that people are here illegally and employers aren't paying payroll taxes (and the like) and their illegal status is causing them to be under the radar is the problem then something akin to PC's suggestion, streamlining and making it easier to get here legally, may be the solution to that particular problem.

If the problem is the country can't sustain an influx of cheap (for the most part) unskilled laborers at the current rate then making it easier to get in doesn't solve the real problem, it just makes it change name from the issue of a flood of illegals to a flood of legals. So what exactly is the problem here?

Edited July 6, 2010 by Dravin

[Voyager]

The answer is simple then. Invade mexico, make it a State, and all their citizens US citizens. No more illegal immigrants, as they are all Americans now. Instantly makes the problem of mexican illegal immigrants go away.

We did that in the 1800s, invade and occupy all of Mexico. The reason we gave it back was that Lincoln and other Republicans did not want Mexico to become a bunch of slave states. They were below the Mason-Dixon Line. It would have given the south an advantage in the senate. The reason there are so many Germans in the mid-west is because the Republicans gave them free land to settle there. They were against slavery. They would elect anti-slavery senators. So the only way we could have made everyone happy would have been to conquer Canada and keep Mexico. It would have changed world history to be sure.

[mordorbund]

... and from what I have seen, work pretty well, better than their American counterparts.

If I were to make the opposite assertion, I'd be shouted down as a racist in about two seconds flat.

Just sayin'.

It's not racist though because it's about illegals and not any nationality. Take two brothers who grew up together in the same non-US country. Both come over here but only one goes through the proper channels. Of the two, the illegal "work pretty well, better than [his] American" brother who is clearly exhausted from all the paperwork. See, race doesn't enter into it at all.

[Just_A_Guy]

It's not racist though because it's about illegals and not any nationality. Take two brothers who grew up together in the same non-US country. Both come over here but only one goes through the proper channels. Of the two, the illegal "work pretty well, better than [his] American" brother who is clearly exhausted from all the paperwork. See, race doesn't enter into it at all.

I can't tell if you're being ironic or not.

"Illegal" is, by definition, non-American and therefore deals wholly in nationality.

[HoosierGuy]

Have we really shut off the border? Why not send the U.S. military down there and completely shut off the border? Why will this not happen? Because big business and their politicians want them here. Why not start throwing employers in prison for hiring illegal immigrants? Throw them in prison along with board members and such, that will stop them from hiring illegal immigrants.

And why in the world are we allowing foreign high tech experts in the U.S. when we can hire U.S. high tech experts?

So you want to change things? Vote! But vote for the right people. I fear tho the ones who complain most about illegal immigration are going to vote for the ones who really support it but lie about it. What's going on in Arizona is more a political stunt than anything else. Unfortunately the people of Arizona are caught in this sad political game.

[Just_A_Guy]

So you want to change things? Vote! But vote for the right people. I fear tho the ones who complain most about illegal immigration are going to vote for the ones who really support it but lie about it. What's going on in Arizona is more a political stunt than anything else. Unfortunately the people of Arizona are caught in this sad political game.

Actually, Arizona requires employers to use E-Verify--the system that immigration groups are always trying to kill.

[Traveler]

Okay there is a big problem requiring employers to not employ illegal immigrants. Here is the problem – If an employer checks out anyone by law they have to check out everyone in the company. Is it really the responsibility of an employer to check out every one they employ to do anything. When was the last time you checked out your baby sitter? Have you ever had a neighbor kid mow your lawn or shovel snow? Could you be in trouble for giving a beggar something to eat? Are you ready to go to jail because you did not check their birth certificate?

Do you want your company shut down and are you willing to lose your job because the company that contracts for cleaning the building you work in has some illegal’s?

Everyone thinks this is someone else’s problem to solve. The truth is that if we make a law it applies to everybody – no exceptions.

Short of invading Mexico – I see no resolution to this problem. But invading Mexico is just a beginning. How do we prevent people who cannot stand the mess their country is in from coming here – I guess we could mess up our country. We cannot fix the world – or can we?

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

Can we legal residents now apply for the low paying jobs?

[Traveler]

Can we legal residents now apply for the low paying jobs?

Something else to think about - Are illegal residents protected under the minimum wage laws?

The Traveler

[Hemidakota]

So much for our government here: Feds sue to block Arizona illegal immigrant law

Link: Feds sue to block Arizona illegal immigrant law | Deseret News

[Hemidakota]

Something else to think about - Are illegal residents protected under the minimum wage laws?

The Traveler

Depends on the employer.