Smoking & Temple

[Sprinkles]

I know my husband has a problem with smoking. I am sure he has gone to the temple while he has been struggling with this. I am also sure that if I suggested we go, he would still go even if he had smoked earlier that day. I don't want him to go because I am going if he is doing wrong. What do I do? Do I just say it's between him and the lord and if he feels like he should go then let him? OR Do I just not ask him to go and plan to go by myself. I went by myself yesterday. I just wish he would decide who's side he it on. HJe gets caught up in what everyone else is doing at work and is very impulsive. We have 6 kids and it makes me very sad.

[Hemidakota]

Are you saying, he holds a temple recommend?

[bytor2112]

Why would your husband want to go to the Temple?

[rubondfan2]

Here are my two-cents, since you're asking for advice. I am not a Judge in Israel, and even if I were, your husband is not under my stewardship, therefore I am not in a position to judge his worthiness or lack thereof. Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, I'll attempt to provide you with my opinion on the matter.

If one is actively struggling with an issue specifically asked about in the temple recommend interview (such as "do you live the Word of Wisdom"), then my opinion is that you are not, in fact, worthy of your recommend and attending the temple would be akin to "drinking damnation to your soul" (not my words, of course). I can appreciate the delicate situation that you are in with your spouse and if I read between the lines, you probably agree in principle with what I just pointed out. My advice... don't "invite" your husband along.

If I also read your post correctly, it sounds as though your husband is struggling to avoid "going along with the crowd" and by your extending any kind of invitation to him to attend the temple this may give him just enough excuse or feel just enough "pressure" to go ahead and attend despite his unworthiness to enter.

There is the second scenario where you indicate that you are going to the temple and he says, "great, let's go!" and proceeds to accompany you. That one is a bit tougher. My advice to you as his loving spouse is to call him out about your concerns of his Word of Wisdom problem. Is it not, however, your place to tell him he is or is not worthy; only a Judge in Israel can determine that (and of, course your husband himself). In the end, if he chooses to attend, he does so on his own conscience... and I would certainly understand if you didn't jump at the chance to participate in the portion of the ceremony where others are asked to participate... I think you know which one I am referring to.

Now for some advice on how to deal with this situation in general. I have found throughout the years both within my own personal experiences and in dealing with others facing challenges with addictions, that many of us have a tendency to compartmentalize our sins and play all kinds of games in our heads to avoid taking true and complete accountability for our actions and the repentance process. I have seen folks turn down "rated R" movies and pass up a caffeinated soda while secretly and actively engaged in a sex addiction viewing pornography and/or engaging in self-abusive behaviors. I have seen individuals justify temple attendance while being unworthy to do so by saying, "I need the temple to have the strength to overcome my addiction". And while the temple does in fact provide the strength to resist temptation with our addictions, it should not be used as a means to overcome one while actively engaged in the behavior.

My final advice is for your husband, and if you choose to share my thoughts with him directly, I certainly welcome and encourage it and give my permission for you to do so. Here is my advice, written directly to him:

Dear ______________:

I have struggled with addictions in my own life which, at times, have been serious enough to be violations of my temple covenants and to count me unworthy to attend the temple. I have, unfortunately, at times justified attending the temple unworthily. Please take advice from someone who very much understands your struggle and cease immediately to further distance yourself from a thorough and lasting repentance process. Seek the counsel of your Bishop. Tell him absolutely everything that you have done which is in violation of any of the questions you have been asked in a temple recommend interview. Let him as a Judge in Israel determine your current worthiness to attend the temple. Surrender your recommend if asked to do so in humility and faith. Take and follow the counsel of your Bishop as to the steps and actions you can take to begin to rid yourself of the addiction that is currently keeping you from fulfilling the full measure of your creation. Attend the Addiction Recovery Program that is most assuredly available wherever it is that you live. Seek the help of qualified professionals to help you work through the deeper emotional issues which are driving you to this addiction in the first place. Stop brushing your sins aside and dismissing them and playing the games in your head to justify doing what you know you need to do in your heart... which is to repent, turn away from the sin and do it no more.

Without even knowing you, I know that the Lord truly and completely loves you with all of His heart. He cannot excuse your sins, but believe me, he understands them and he feels your guilt, your shame, your pain and your sadness because of them. I know that your wife and your family love you more than you probably even understand and your sins and your avoidance of the real issues is breaking their hearts. They will support you! They will love you for taking the courageous step forward to remove this cancer from your (and their) lives forever.

May the Lord bless you. May you find the strength to just step into your Bishop's office and start this process... this very Sunday... is my prayer for you in His name.

I wish you the best of luck in your situation. You are not alone either. Many, many spouses (on both ends of the gender spectrum) struggle with situations very much like this. You too, would benefit from a visit with your Bishop, in my opinion.

[Guest mirancs8]

That's a tough situation as I would want my spouse to join me at the Temple and not feel that I need to exclude him. We all at some point struggle. I'd say talk to him about it and ask him what you could do to help him to overcome this struggle. If he fails don't make him feel bad, instead lift his spirits by saying something like "hey you did it for 2 weeks! I believe in you. I know you can do it." Try to find ways to be of help to him through the struggle. I know it's hard. I tend to be an all or nothing person. When I stopped smoking, drinking and such it was no struggle... I just stopped. Most people aren't like that obviously so we need to encourage positive change and not discourage it by putting them down or making them feel like a big fat failure.

You know he can do it. With your support he'll be able to stop.

Regarding his Temple recommend you might want to just have a heart to heart with him about it. Be honest about how you feel regarding him smoking (not keeping the WOW) and holding a recommend/attending the Temple. Ultimately he needs to come forth in his honesty when it comes to his worthiness. He needs to be accountable for his own actions.

[Sprinkles]

Yes he holds a temple reccomend. I don't even know if he was honest with the bishop in the interview.

He wouldn't initiate a trip to the temple, but if I said, lets go - he would say okay. He tries to hide the smoking sometimes, but I can tell and he will admit to it. He never does it at home. It is a stress relief to him as he holds a very stressful job.

rubondfan2 - I think your reply was right on and so helpful. Thank you!!

[tubaloth]

Why not just tell him of the struggle you are having. Talk about how you are unsure if you should bring up the temple. Explain that you know he he smokeing and would like him to quite. Tell him, because you care for him, you would like to go to the temple together, but also would like him to be worthy to go. Tell him he want to help him, and that I would hope he isn't planning on smoking for the rest of his life, that he plans to quit sooner then later.

Even more the reward for quiting should be going to temple!

[pooter1]

How did he get a Temple reccomend?? You can't even be baptised without keeping the Word Of Wisdom. Im very confused. If he is smoking he should not being going to the temple.

[Wingnut]

How did he get a Temple reccomend?? You can't even be baptised without keeping the Word Of Wisdom. Im very confused. If he is smoking he should not being going to the temple.

Well, if his bishop doesn't know that he smokes, and he answered that he obeys the Word of Wisdom...

Or if he started smoking again since his last interview, since temple recommends last for two years now...

Not that hard.

[mightynancy]

If he's not really trying, or doesn't take the temple seriously, that's reason to stay home.

However, if I were a smoker, but actively trying to quit, failing and trying again, I would consider myself worthy to attend the temple. How is that different from any of us failing to meet any other commandment? If I were trying to quit pride, or materialism, or lazy praying, or gossip, failing and trying again, I would still go to the temple.

[Sean1427]

Thanks to MightyNancy for having the courage to write what you did. Many of us act as though smoking is somehow more serious than everything else we're asked in a temple recommend interview. To the points MightyNancy mentioned, let's add being honest in all our dealing with our fellow man. I suspect that a lot of us who take pride in the fact that we don't smoke are much less than honest in all of our dealings with others. Of course, then there's the pride she mentioned, being proud that we don't smoke. Then, too, gossipping is alive and well, something we rarely think about, and yet the damage done to others by our gossping is far greater than anything smoking can do--gossping destroys names, reputations, and a person's feeling comfortable among us at Church where all of us sin and fall short of what is expected of us. I also think of all those good Mormons in Utah who are very much addicted to OTC drugs. Didn't one of the last women's conference addresses point out that in Utah there were more deaths annually due to OTCs than auto accidents? As I reflect on what MightyNancy pointed out, I'm trying to think of who it was who said that said that it would be nice if all our sins smelled as sweet as cigarette smoke.

The point is whether a person is trying to do what's right, whether they are moving in the right direction. We all stumble and fall and have to pick ourselves up again. My father had a terrible time trying to conquer his addiction to nicotine. When he became a member later in life, he thought he had it licked. But periodically, when under great amounts of stress, the old temptation came back and he succumbed to his weakness in those times of stress. When a family member died in his companionship, he blamed himself and became depressed. And his smoking returned when he needed to calm his nerves. He kept attending church and willingly did everything he was asked. And he was honest to a fault. He was the first one to be there to help another. But his smoking was his Achilles heel. Quite often during this time, he'd get dressed up to go to church and before he'd go with us, he'd sneak out to have a smoke to calm his nerves. It was hard on us who'd been raised otherwise. But what was harder was to see how fellow members avoided him or wouldn't sit next to him at church because they could smell the smoke on him. The home teacher asked the bishop to give him some kind of calling in hopes it would help him out of his depresson, but the bishop refused. Things changed when a new bishop was called, but I can't say that my father was really ever able to completely conquer his addiction. It caused problems between my parents for years. Then one day my mother realized that they both had a weakness -- while he smoked to calm his nerves, she turned to Paxil. Now that my father is gone, my mother lives daily with the regrets of all the flak she gave my father because of his smoking, and she looks back on all the ways she could have handled the situation better. As a non-member, my father was a far better Mormon than most Mormons I know. He continued to be so after he was baptized. But to the day he died, his Achilles heel was certainly that old habit he had developed in his youth and had a hard time breaking.

What really matters is whether your husband is trying, not whether he's arrived. My advice is simple, something that's been mentioned here already in a number of ways. Talk with your husband. After all, you know him and the situation far better than anyone here. After you've spokien with him, you might feel that you should talk with you bishop. But be aware that even bishops have different views even on this. And yet he is your bishop, and he is the one you should talk to if you feel the need. Whatever you do, don't listen to all of us giving you our two cents worth, which isn't worth much really. On something like this, we're just likely to muddy the waters. Worse, if you listen to us and make a decision based on some of our advice, you may end up doing something you'll live to regret in the years ahead.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Sean1427

[bl8tant]

Sean1427, I think you've nailed it-- thanks for that insightful post.

I was going to hunt around for the source of the (probably apocryphal) quote about the smell of cigarette smoke in sacrament meeting, but I couldn't find it. However, I did find an article that I liked quite a bit at mulling and musing: On Smelling Cigarette Smoke in Sacrament Meeting. It has some great quotes from Elder Wirthlin that I personally need to ponder and take more to heart.

[Sean1427]

Thanks for saying my post was insightful, Bl8tant. Here I thought I was just rambling! Also, thanks for the link ot the article you shared--I very much appreciate it.

[rubondfan2]

If he's not really trying, or doesn't take the temple seriously, that's reason to stay home.

I am in agreement with this statement. And only the individual referred to in the OP's post, the OP herself and the husband's Bishop would be qualified to make this determination.

However, if I were a smoker, but actively trying to quit, failing and trying again, I would consider myself worthy to attend the temple. How is that different from any of us failing to meet any other commandment? If I were trying to quit pride, or materialism, or lazy praying, or gossip, failing and trying again, I would still go to the temple.

On this one, I agree with your post in principle, but have an opinion regarding the bolded portion of your quote above (I added the bold to clarify which point I'm referring to). The difference, in my opinion is that "pride", "materialism" and "lazy praying" are not specifically part of the temple recommend interview to determine an individual's worthiness to enter the House of the Lord. "Gossip" is a little more grey because it certainly could fall within the "honest in your dealings with your fellow man" question.

We are not asked if we are perfect in our interviews, only if we are worthy. Worthiness is largely a question which we answer within our own hearts; however when the issue is something specifically asked about in the recommend interview, then a struggle with one of those areas warrants discussion with the Bishop, in my opinion. Additionally, the Bishop, as a qualified Judge in Israel will be in the best position to ascertain an individual's worthiness and may opt to ask for the recommend to be surrendered, allow it to be held on to but not used for a time, indicate that the individual is worthy and therefore encourage them to attend the temple or any number of other options based on the individual circumstances.

It is my opinion that we should be careful in "self-determining" our worthiness where serious sins are concerned. If we are struggling with something specifically included within the temple recommend interview, then we are riding a fine line between worthiness and unworthiness to attend the temple and in those situations it is wise to be in close consultation with our Bishop.

I also very much appreciated the article link found in another post on this thread relative to "Smelling smoke in Sacrament". And while certainly insightful and I agree with what was proposed and discussed within that article; I also feel that it is out of context with what the OP's question is regarding. In this instance we are not talking about Sacrament meeting; we're talking about the House of the Lord and we certainly should NOT be glad to be smelling tobacco smoke within those walls.

[Vanhin]

I have seen a good bit of flexibility and leniency with Word of Wisdom issues and how various bishops and stake presidents handle the situation. In the grand scheme of things, WoW issues are really the low man on the totem pole - except in really extreme cases.

I think the following question covers a pretty broad spectrum, that includes many things people struggle with on a daily basis.

Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

That doesn't just mean serious spousal or child abuse. It means anything that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church. And this one.

Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

Both of those together would cover the issues mightynancy was referring to.

Regards,

Vanhin

[rubondfan2]

I think the following question covers a pretty broad spectrum, that includes many things people struggle with on a daily basis.

Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

That doesn't just mean serious spousal or child abuse. It means anything that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church. And this one.

Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

Thank you, Vanhin for pointing out these two very relevant recommend interview questions. And at the risk of sounding argumentative, I will say that the portion I made bold in your quote does show a divide between an issue such as the Word of Wisdom (or even Law of Chastity... don't get me wrong, I'm not just picking on a smoker here... smoking just happens to be the example brought into play by the OP) and that of the "striving" question. The question about "striving" to keep the covenants, etc. is much different than, "do you live the Word of Wisdom"... you either do or you don't. And to further emphasize my thoughts on this... think about how different the context would be if the question were, "Do you strive to live the Word of Wisdom?", or "Do you strive to live the Law of Chastity?" Those are immensely different questions than the ones being asked.

As I was coming home from work earlier and giving thought to what I had posted earlier, I had an analogy come to mind, and perhaps sharing it will further illustrate where my mind and heart are on this question and in my original response to the OP.

We've heard the term used in the church over these past several years of "raising the bar". This terminology, of course, comes from the track and field realm referring to high jumping or pole vaulting. The temple recommend questions are "bar setting" questions... the bare minimum worthiness requirements to enter the temple. If we are brushing against that bar and from time to time even knocking it down, then in my opinion it is time to consult with your coach (Bishop) on ways to improve your technique. The "coach" might even sideline you from the next meet (declare you unworthy for a period of time) until you've got your technique up to snuff... but certainly isn't going to kick you off the team (take formal church discipline against you) unless of course you show that you don't really want to take his advice and are simply going to keep doing what you're doing.

Once you've gotten to the point where you are clearing the bar with relative ease, then certainly you continue working on your technique to clear the bar by greater and greater margins. Things like the few items that mightnancy referred to are, in my opinion, more along the line of "fine tuning ones technique", than in "brushing the bar and possibly knocking it down".

The question is not phrased as "Do you keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?", it is do you "strive to". Thank goodness it is not the former because I think our temple attendance numbers would be pretty low. However, the latter of a failure to "strive" to do these things would be a bar knocking event, because it would show an extreme lack of regard for the basic tenets of church activity and temple worthiness. "Striving" to do them and failing from time to time because you're working on your technique is something that every one of us do and will do throughout our term in mortality. And we are capable of "self-determining" our worthiness in these areas.

Finally, I agree with your points Vanhin, and I do hope that you do not take my opinions on the matter as argumentative or that I am seeking to teach anyone a lesson here. I think I have said enough now to adequately clarify where my mind and heart are on this issue and unless a direct question is thrown my way, I'll say no more.

[Vanhin]

Oh rubondfan2, it's okay to argue with me. :)

Here's a little bit of tongue in cheek that you might appreciate in light of your post.

"Well yeah sure bishop, I'm striving not to beat my wife any more... but I stopped smoking cigarettes!"

Regards,

Vanhin

Edited August 19, 2010 by Vanhin

[mightynancy]

"Sure bishop, I'm striving not to beat my wife any more... but I stopped smoking cigarettes!"

And....this is why this forum needs a laugh button.

[jayanna]

OKay, I just feel really strongly that I want to share my opinion on this.

When you have an addiction, any addiction, you enslave yourself to it. Instead of turning to the Lord for comfort, you are turning to that addiction. That bad spirit has control over you. You are in essence worshipping a false god.

Going to the temple while secretly worshipping a false god is not good. You cannot serve two masters.

The temple interview question is not Are you striving to keep the Word of Wisdom, its, "Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?" And only a yes or no response is appropriate, its the same for tithing. 'Do you pay an honest tithe?' not are you striving to pay tithing.

There are 3 sins that he will have to repent of here, when he is ready. They are 1 smoking 2 trying to keep it from his wife and 3 attending the temple while carrying this addiction in the door with him. Fortunately these are all sins that can be repented of. The atonement applies to the sins as well.

You cannot control what your spouse is doing, you can control what you are doing. If you decide to speak with your bishop about what YOU should do, he will help you. He will want both of you to be able to go to the temple together and will guide you on how best to achieve that goal.

PLease let us know how things are going.

Edited August 21, 2010 by jayanna

[Wildflower]

My dad is addicted to meat. He definitely doesn't eat it sparingly. Should he not be going to the temple?

[jayanna]

ooo that's an intersting one...even in the summer? I think if it is an addiction, it is not good. Do you think we will be eating meat in the Celestial kingdom? Though, Jesus did eat fish after He was resurrected. But as for later, Even the Lions won't be eating meat anymore when the Earth is renewed to its paradisiacle state.

Best to let that addiction go as soon as possible. In the For the Strength of Youth booklet is says...

“The Lord has commanded you to take good care of your body. To do this, observe the Word of Wisdom, found in Doctrine and Covenants 89. Eat nutritious food, exercise regularly, and get enough sleep. When you do all these things, you remain free from harmful addictions and have control over your life. You gain the blessings of a healthy body, an alert mind, and the guidance of the Holy Ghost. …

“Any drug, chemical, or dangerous practice that is used to produce a sensation or ‘high’ can destroy your physical, mental, and spiritual well-being. These include hard drugs, prescription or over-the-counter medications that are abused, and household chemicals” ([2001], 36–37).

Elder Uchtdorf said of the book, "You younger men might not be aware that the standards set by the Lord in the temple recommend questions are very similar to the standards found in For the Strength of Youth. (April Conf. 2006).

It's the addiction part you need to worry about. Anything you are using to comfort yourself in the place of God, is not a good practice. We even fast once a month for a reason. Elder Perry explained the in the 'Law of the Fast', "Fasting is also one of the finest ways of developing our own discipline and self-control. Plato said, “The first and the best victory is to conquer self; to be conquered by self is, of all things, the most shameful and vile.” (Laws, Book I, section 626E.)

Fasting helps to teach us self-mastery. It helps us to gain the discipline we need to have control over ourselves." (April Conf. 1986)

An addiction to anything you put in your body is not keeping the Word of Wisdom. Someone I care about very much even overdosed on vitamins, harming himself. I wonder if he had known the WoW would he still be here today? He had cancer and was trying to use vitamins with his chemo. to fight it off. Things that are good for you, when consumed inappropriately, can actually become harmful.

One of our missionaries overdosed on iron while he was here. He was eating too much red meat, and started getting nosebleeds that took a really long time to stop. I don't think he was addicted, though, just served a lot of red meat while he was eating at members' homes.

Addiction can be cured, there is nothing the adversary can bring us to, that the Lord can't get us out of.

If you are really worried about your dad, you should talk to him. Tell him how much you are worried about him, how much you love him. Remember that we are here to help each other, and care for one another. Pray and fast for him, serve him, he will know if you share your concern about this that it is the spirit of caring for him, and not condemning him.

When he feels he needs to rectify this he will go to the bishop on his own.

Edited August 22, 2010 by jayanna

[Daniel2020]

How is that different from any of us failing to meet any other commandment? If I were trying to quit pride, or materialism, or lazy praying, or gossip, failing and trying again, I would still go to the temple.

If only perfect people could attend the temple there wouldn't be any proxy work done is this life. Some sins disqualify a person from receiving a temple recommend while others don't. Lay praying, for example, doesn't while smoking does.

[Wildflower]

I have begged my dad to change the way he eats. At his age he could have a heart attack any day! He cannot control it and it really worries me. No matter what anyone says, he still eats what he craves, and it is just like a drug addiction. And yet, I consider him a worthy righteous man. We are all sinners. One thing that bothers me is that if a person like my dad is not following the word of wisdom (in the sense that he does not eat meat sparingly and is a glutton), he is still considered worthy to enter the temple. But if a person does not follow the word of wisdom in other ways, like smoking or drinking coffee, then they cannot enter the temple. They can't even be baptized! The disconnect really gets to me. It comes across to me as hypocritical and even pharisaical that people get a free pass for disobeying certain aspects of the word of wisdom, but not other aspects of it. I personally believe that if a person struggles with certain things such as smoking or drinking coffee, that should not be reason enough to bar them from joining the church or going to the temple. To me there are worse sins that weigh far more heavily on ones worthiness, like cheating or not loving one another.

[jayanna]

I have heart disease, so I can understand your worry. While mine has nothing to do with my diet, I still keep an eye on what I eat.

My stake pres. gave a really excellent lesson last Sun. that I find to be true, and might help you here.

There are two sins that are 'unforgivable' according to the scriptures. The are 1 to testify against the Holy Ghost and 2. murder in innocent blood.

Yet, when people have broken away from the church, and have testified against it, they are welcomed back. Also, when people have abortions, they can be forgiven.

This might seem to be contradictory. How do we rectify what might seem to be an inconsistency?

The answer is this...there is a condition...they are judged according to what they KNOW. They do not truly know what they do at the time of their sin. Therefore, all the sins we commit here are in fact repentable.

Maybe your father, though he has been told by family members, has not had a verification from God, that eating in this unhealthy way is a sin. I am sure that once he understands this to be true, he can and will stop. Remember, that through Christ, we can overcome anything that the adversary throws at us.

The Lord has decided that if you smoke or drink coffee, that you are addicted to something that is bad for you, and He will not consider you ready to enter into His house. We do not get to decide what sins are worse than others. We can only do the best we can, and encourage others to do so as well.

I think it would be a good idea for you to get a comfort blessing, from your dad, or home teacher, etc. The Lord loves you and your father. He wants what is best for you, seek His direction in what you should do.

Edited August 22, 2010 by jayanna

[deseretgov]

Matthew 15:11

11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Christ taught us that it is unimportant to our eternal salvation what we take into our bodies. But rather what speech we allow to come out of our mouths. That is what can affect our eternal salvation.

But doesn't the Word of Wisdom Command us not to use tobacco? Yes it does. But the Word of wisdom does not have any affect on our eternal salvation only our temporal salvation(meaning health).

Doctrine and Covenants 89:2

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—