Mental Delay - put with younger age group?

[idesign123]

My son has Autism and a language delay. He is 5 years old, but mentally is more like 2-3yrs.

He is finally starting to comprehend some language (hooray!), but the lessons for his age group are MUCH too advanced for him. The "Sunbeam" curriculum would still be tricky, but I've looked at the Sunbeam lessons and he would actually comprehend some of the things they are teaching.

I am planning to ask the Primary President about the possibility of moving him back to the Sunbeam level, so he's at least getting some benefits out of being at Church. But I'm guessing the president would prefer to keep him with his age group (as she tend to do things "by the book").

I feel strongly as his parent that Sunbeams would be the best fit for him. He will not be ready to be baptized by age 8, but might be by age 10.

Has "holding back a child with a mental delay" ever been done in other wards? Any other thoughts/advice for me?

Edited August 8, 2010 by idesign123

[Maya]

You are a fantastic mother. I think so many mothers just want to see their kids with same aged kids instead of thinking where they belong intellectually. And the sckoling ... primary... systen should allow kids moved according to their intellect, in stead of the age. All kid develope in their own speed adn who knows your son might ... with right level education now catch on to his own age in a year or so. But if he is with older kids he dont understand anything and may even develope to a disturber, or just cut the world out and go in his own world. I hope she can understand that yopu know best! Good luck!

[Wingnut]

I've got the opposite situation right now. I am the Young Women President in my ward. I recently had a girl move up from Primary, despite that she won't be 12 until October. We have so many young families in our ward (and three -- three! -- nursery classes, with a possible upgrade to four soon). The next nearest person in age in Primary to my newest girl just barely turned 10 in June. Having talked with the Primary President, the Bishop, and the girl's mom, we're all in agreement that it's in her best interest to bridge up to Young Women early. Prior to three weeks ago, she was coming to Sacrament meeting, but her grandmother (her parents aren't members) would take her home afterward, because she hated attending Primary. She now comes to Young Women class, attends Sunday School in between, and comes to Mutual activities during the week. She's already visibly happier.

[Maya]

That was GREAT work Wingnut! We need to listen to the spirit and not just go acording to the books! Absolutely LOVE that! We need to look at the child, not numbers! :)

3-4 nurseries... UH you gotta be kidding! If I take all kids of that age in our stake I wonder if we get more than 5-6 nurseries! You guys have taken it seriosly to inhabit the world!

[Elgama]

I've always tweaked the primary to fit the children. I had one six year old in my primary. She had been in with the eight year olds, and was struggling finding it boring. Very bright child but she was stuck in between each age group. I let her choose each week between the older class or nursery. Sometimes she started off with the big kids then came to play in nursery when she was struggling.

I have had one year olds in my nursery when their Mums had callings. And with one small primary taught everyone in one class rather than leaving them on their own. It involved less teachers but one assisted the eight year old with her scriptures and another helped run nursery in the corner, I would allow the older three to take it in turns to be nursery assistant.

If your child isn't feeling love and the spirit they are not learning about God, if they are struggling the spirit and love is much more difficult to feel.

[Wingnut]

3-4 nurseries... UH you gotta be kidding! If I take all kids of that age in our stake I wonder if we get more than 5-6 nurseries! You guys have taken it seriosly to inhabit the world!

Well, despite having two leaders per class and a parent helper each week, no one seems to be able (or willing) to deal with having more than 6-8 kids in a nursery class.

The real problem though, is that our ward is full of young families, most of whom are in grad school, and continue to have more kids despite not being able to actually financially support them. I know it's not for me to judge other people's family planning decisions, but I see a lot of imprudence in my ward in that department.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Wingnut

[Gwen]

i don't see why you couldn't move him back. in fact it's in his interest. the more he can comprehend now the more he will be able to do later. we have a ym with autism in our branch. he moved out of the youth program at nearly 19 rather than at 18. we have also had youth move up early due to situations like wing described. when you have an 11 yr old and the next oldest is closer to 8 it makes it hard on them, moving up can be the best (though they can't do camp and other "youth" activities till 12). the bishop makes the decision. i say pray about how to talk to him about it, explain why you think it's best for your child and see what he says.

[FairChild]

Could it be possible that he have a helper in Primary? I've seen that happen before.

[Maya]

Well, despite having two leaders per class and a parent helper each week, no one seems to be able (or willing) to deal with having more than 6-8 kids in a nursery class.

The real problem though, is that our ward is full of young families, most of whom are in grad school, and continue to have more kids despite not being able to actually financially support them. I know it's not for me to judge other people's family planning decisions, but I see a lot of imprudence in my ward in that department.

What a blessing so many young families! I just hope they can endure the pressure as today it is much more difficult to be a child from a poor family or a mother or a father that can give everything they ask to their kids. When kids start the school they want a lot more than before.... as everyone else has... (ever heard of that person.. everyone else... that must be a rich person as it has almost everything!)

Yes many are afraid to have more than 6-8... If you would like less classes... you could try locking with every second week free from nursary

Btw here is about the pedagogy: The Montessori Foundation

[jayanna]

I would put some serious fasting and prayer into this one, while the spirit should always guide, as a general rule it is a good idea to keep a child with his/her age group...coming from a child dev. background...I have had several kids with severe disabilities, but kept them with their age group in spite of reservations and it worked out well in the end. (I had a personal asstistant for each one of them.) Children tend to learn how to behave the way they see others behave. Of course, that is almost strictly from a professional point of view rather than the greater instruction we can receive from the Holy Spirit.

I think the real point to having a class in Primary is not just understanding the doctrine, some kids don't listen to that at all, it can also be forming Christlike relationships with your peers. The number one most important thing for kids to get out of their class, they need to feel loved and cared for the way their Heavenly Father cares for them. Either way you decide to go, Primary is great.

[zippy_do46]

My son has Autism and a language delay. He is 5 years old, but mentally is more like 2-3yrs.

He is finally starting to comprehend some language (hooray!), but the lessons for his age group are MUCH too advanced for him. The "Sunbeam" curriculum would still be tricky, but I've looked at the Sunbeam lessons and he would actually comprehend some of the things they are teaching.

Have you checked out the New Nursery manual. It is great. You might use it for FHE. This will help him alot. Uses alot of line drawings. These can be use in so many ways . You can even use them with word association in every day life. This will give him something is use to seeing that is used in Primary. EX. Sacrament being passed. Result is a child sitting being still. This can be put on a ring and you can flip it to the picture when sacrament is being passed. The results would be what you want him to do. It also covers the Sunbeam topics at a lower level with pictures. Some of the drawings can be used for games, flip books, and etc.

I am planning to ask the Primary President about the possibility of moving him back to the Sunbeam level, so he's at least getting some benefits out of being at Church. But I'm guessing the president would prefer to keep him with his age group (as she tend to do things "by the book")

I feel strongly as his parent that Sunbeams would be the best fit for him. He will not be ready to be baptized by age 8, but might be by age 10.

:) Idesign123 you do know your son the best. You can see things no one else can unless his life skills are studied. It says something about you that you have taken the time to study the Sunbeam manual.

I have been on both sides of this before. As a Primary President You want to do what is best for all of your little one. Your son has alot of things that might not work out for him. One is his size. How big is he compare to the size of the other children? How is his social skills compared to the little ones? Is he agressive in his behavior? These things you need to think about if you want to address his need to enter one of the lower classes. Like the dear sister said, this might be addressed with a teacher's helper that just deals with him as he stays in that class. If he is having a bad day then this helper can take him out of class and work with him one on one.

There will be those days. As a teacher I can tell you that. Last two years I have had a young boy who for the first year he was waiting to be told he had Autism, he also had some language delay problems. His mother was a teacher and she knew in her heart that he had Autism so she started working with him. As his nursery leader I went on the internet and found out exactly how I could help my little one. What I found out is the Nursery manual was ideal. I just made adjustments that my other little ones loved. The hard part was time. In a class with 9 to 14 little ones it was very hard to give him the time he needed. A teacher's helper would be help here. There were times when he would get so excited that he could not deal. The other little ones became weary of him. Last year he started getting help. They changed his diet and I could tell the difference in less then a month. The problem is the other children did not trust him. They would back off from him in play. His toys were his even if he sit them down and the others picked up the fight was on. His past is what they judged him on. He was getting better though. There were 2 other boys his age that we encouraged to play with him. He did have those days though that he needed that one on one.

He is a Sunbeam now. His class is often small or one on one due to some move offs. He is doing well.

Now, some other examples : as a Primary president I have had several children who were dealing with not only phyical problems but mental ones. Keeping these children with their class had these results:

Their class will learn about them. They will learn his or her limits. I even had children who insisted and came up with things their friends could do in the Sacrament program. As a primary president I tried to at least have a couple of Sundays that we talked about others being different from ourselves. Our children need to learn compassion for those who are different. If they have time and a good relationship built up over that time then our little ones who have been sent to this earth and have this hardship of a disability can have a very good experience in Primary.

This is work. It takes a good mother or father working with the Primary President or it might not work. Remembering that this President is dealing with all Primary children. As much as she wants to help your child she might have the problem of teachers. She might have a problem with trying to come up with someone who can deal with your little one. Not everyone has the patience or the talent to deal with these little ones. She might be dealing with space problems or just the size of the class. Know this. It might not be a problem of her not wanting to deal with this problem. The church has guidelines with dealing with the children and adults that have disabilities, but with all of these problems and everyone being different, nothing is written in stone. Work with the Primary Leadership. As my grandmother use to say, "More things are caught with a little bit of honey".

I am so sorry this is so long. I have been thinking how I could inform without hurting. This is not an overnight fix. Sorry about that. You can work with him at home with that manual though. If you have any question just ask and I would glad to give you my experience. My Heavenly Father has blessed me with being able to work with our little ones. It is not an professional experience though. Just searching info with on the knees and prayer, and alot of love thrown in. My prayers are with you.

Edited August 14, 2010 by zippy_do46

[Maya]

Sometimes to keep someone in his age level can cause that the whole lesson is destroyed because of one child, whom you need to give love to and leave the others just watch with no time to take care of their needs. To have a personal assisistent is like saying to everyone this kid cant manage it.... ok the same happens when you put the kid on a lower level... but at least you get lessons working. I think flexible age classes are best.. so that you can move kids from class to an other after what they can. Best would be a chanse to choose if they watn to be in a clas and hear sundays lesson or work with personal program in a big class where everyone can be together and where they could get from shelves tasks or games/toys they can learn lessons with. Only one rule.. dont disturb anybody!

[zippy_do46]

Maya, alot of the rooms here in the states are very small. In our Ward we have some class rooms that if you get 8 children and a teacher you are doing good. We have 2 classes that will hold maybe 10 children, but that is side by side and if the teacher turns side ways a little. She can reach out and touch the first row.

My Nursery is 2 rooms divide by a bi-fold door that can be pulled back to the wall. I have no room for shelves. I have a built in at the end of one of the rooms. It takes up at least 2 1/2 feet of that room one room. My small table fits from one wall to the other. I have 9 children and sometimes a few more if they are not a sleep after Sacrament because we have the afternoon meeting time. You add 2 teachers and if we didn't pull back the table and stack chairs they have no room to play. It would be very hard for them to have that little space. Add any aggressive behavior and one push could wipe out a couple of children. Makes it very tough. When we have activity play the other Nursery Leader does the play activity, while I stand back to handle any of the happy aggression that takes place when they get excited. :) They wiggle and jump and play ring around the rosy. This old lady does not fall down anymore very good. :) The rule is everything has to bee cleaned up before we can play or blow bubbles. If not there would be no room for these activities as a group. This the only way we can do this.

[FairChild]

One thing you can do is create picture books for your son, simular to scrap booking, but when you are done, you just slide the picture into a page protector. If you get the smooth textrued page protectors, you can use a white board pen that wipes off to write on the page, wipe off the page protector and then use it again and again. I found out that for me, I could write a to do list, a schedule, with words, even using pictures, drawings or photos. I would draw a small box next to each item. If I started on something, color in half the box and when it was finished, colored the whole box in. You can make a list for a whole day or for bedtime or meal time or for getting ready for church. Use as many pages as you want or need. Creating something visual will help your son feel independent and good about himself. I also have used small photo albums and index cards as my page. I could check off as each item was done. Then my book could be wiped down and used all over the next day if I needed it. by using the photo albums or page protectors, you can easily change the book as often as needed. You can also create little booklets about the lessons, gospel, pictures of friends, family, church members, animals and school. Your child could look at his books during Sacrament. I hope what I said helps.

[emilyhope]

I too am having an issue with my son in Primary, but am hoping for a better outcome... See in his nursery class there are 15 other kids! And everyone knows a child with Autism or ADD benefits from a smaller class size right next door in the sun beams only 4 children all 3 years of age just a couple months older than my son, born 25 of Jan, making him also 3 1/2 years old. Now on the other hand in Nursery most of kids in there are barely 18 months old to 2 yrs of age...

Its very overwhelming and over crowded in there and he can't learn any type of lesson in that environment, So why not put him with the group of children closer to his age?

Isn't that what we all strive for as parents? To help our children and place in their best learning environment? I also posted a forum on here titled Autism to read more... In the end I feel we know what will work for our children and some rules need to do a little bending otherwise you're just going to scare members off.