How Does LDS Church resolve conflicts with the Bible ???


CHowell
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 402
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Hi CHowell. I hope your doing well.

As you undoubtedly recall, Adam and Eve did not even know they were naked until they partook of the fruit. This implies an innocence. Is it possible to procreate without a knowledge of the significance of nudity? Just something to think about.

Regards

Hi Connie,

I have to completely reject this argument, because they are commanded by God to be fruitful and multiple. To suggest that God didn't give them the knowledge to obey his command is nonsense. To suggest that they needed a knowledge of Good and Evil to have sex implies that there is something inherently wrong and evil about sex. Which would imply that there is something wrong in God's design. That I cannot accept.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CHowell because God guides each one of us, you don't have to be a prophet to receive revelation about what is right and wrong.#

The Book of Mormon itself admitted it contained inaccuracies and that the human hand would always mean some error. Joseph Smith described it as the most correct book not the most perfect book.

98.6% accuracy isn't enough for me when I can get 100% accuracy of what God wants his servants to say once a month at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My husband grilled those missionaries into the ground with questions before he was satisfied. :D

Because frankly, we were discussing exactly this issue, and I'm wondering about the birth pains too, what were they to be compared to?

Comparing the difference of languages:

Genesis 3:16

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Moses 4:22

Unto the woman, I, the Lord God, said: I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception. In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

I will greatly multiply. According to the LDS version of the King James Bible, the Hebrew for this clause would more accurately be rendered something akin to "God will greatly multiply thy discomfort and size during conception."

In other words, she will give birth to mortal offspring, which will require an uncomfortable increase in her size. Ellis T. Rasmussen wrote:

Sorrow is used in Genesis 3:16 and 17 to translate the Hebrew 'etzev, which connotes "toil, pain, travail." Doubtless the burdens and pain of pregnancy and childbirth were thereby anticipated (Gen. 3:16b). This is a great revelation to women. Eve and her daughters can become cocreators with God by preparing bodies for his spirit children to occupy on earth and later in eternity. Mothering would entail inconvenience, suffering, travail, and sorrow; these the Lord foretold as natural consequences and not as a curse.

Eve's calling to be the "mother of all living" would be painful in the pregnancy, delivery, and nurturing of her offspring. However, it would also allow her to serve as a partner with God (and her husband) in the creation of life. Through the Fall, Eve had been endowed with one of God's greatest gifts to mortals—the power of creation. But it would require sacrifice.

In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children. President Spencer W. Kimball indicated that he felt that this would better be worded as in "distress," "pain," or "waiting" you will bring forth children. He wrote: "I think there is a great gladness in most Latter-day Saint homes when there is to be a child [born] there." Thus, again the emphasis is on the physical discomfort, but not on the regret.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Connie,

I have to completely reject this argument, because they are commanded by God to be fruitful and multiple. To suggest that God didn't give them the knowledge to obey his command is nonsense. To suggest that they needed a knowledge of Good and Evil to have sex implies that there is something inherently wrong and evil about sex. Which would imply that there is something wrong in God's design. That I cannot accept.

so you subscribe to the theory that God is not omnipotent, He is a negligent parent, He left his children in the Garden with the serpent KNOWING they had no way of determining He was evil. I can tell my children the stove is hot, but I am not about to let them try it out until I am sure they know its hot and dangerous.

I was about 7 when I had an issue with that one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So let me see if I understand this... According to the LDS, you can claim that the Bible is essentially incomplete/inacurate.

Because you don't accept that God was guiding the individual who proposed Changes ? However you accept that somehow through this prophet God is guiding him to make changes to the Bible, the book of Mormon, and anything else ?

SO what's the difference between individual 1 and individual 2 ? Why can you accept God's Divine guidance on individual 2 and not individual one ?

Secondly...did you know that Bibles today whether it be the NIV, KJV etc are translated to aproximately 98.6% of the original greek text. Therefore they're translated from the Greek text into the translation that they are to goto and therefore are 1st generation citizens of the translated text.

Thirdly...How many times has the book of Mormon been translated, modified, updated and refined ? Why is more faith placed in this process then faith placed in the translation fo the Bible ?

It is because our nature of agency is to seek the truth from the source itself. To be frank - I would not have joined the church if GOD did not literally answer my prayer.

Others are ok with the Holy Ghost confirmation. That is ok too. We all have different methods of receiving truths. But, let you know, I do prefer the Holy Ghost method and found later (patternization), one can receive an answer directly from GOD but the Holy Ghost will have to still confirm the event. So, the end all answer is to seek truths from the source is better than rely on others for our testimony. It is the bedrock of every member in the church.

The book of Mormon was only translated once but through endless printing errors, still to this day requires correction. This is also a fact with the Bible collection. Even my own journal goes through many editations for endless corrections.

Do you know your history concening the bible? Just curious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Connie,

I have to completely reject this argument, because they are commanded by God to be fruitful and multiple. To suggest that God didn't give them the knowledge to obey his command is nonsense. To suggest that they needed a knowledge of Good and Evil to have sex implies that there is something inherently wrong and evil about sex. Which would imply that there is something wrong in God's design. That I cannot accept.

Hello again.

You seem to be focused a great deal on the Evil aspect of it. Did you happen to miss the word Good? It was the knowledge of Good and Evil that was received when they partook of the fruit. So, sex being good, exactly what knowledge did they possess before that point that would have allowed them to procreate?

Regards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I don't understand is, where does the idea that before the fall they were incapable of having children come from ??? The Bible doesn't teach us that, because the chapter earlier God's kind of saying go out and have kids, populate the earth. What teaches the LDS church this belief ?

Where does the Bible teach how to administrate the earthly affairs of a church? Where does the Bible teach how to appropriately discipline one's children? Where does the Bible teach that we should read the Bible?

God does not command in all things, and he does not give all knowledge at once. Nor is He done giving knowledge or commandments.

Secondly...did you know that Bibles today whether it be the NIV, KJV etc are translated to aproximately 98.6% of the original greek text.

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. Only the New Testament was written in Greek.

Hi Connie,

I have to completely reject this argument, because they are commanded by God to be fruitful and multiple. To suggest that God didn't give them the knowledge to obey his command is nonsense. To suggest that they needed a knowledge of Good and Evil to have sex implies that there is something inherently wrong and evil about sex. Which would imply that there is something wrong in God's design. That I cannot accept.

Then I guess you're at an impasse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CHowell because God guides each one of us, you don't have to be a prophet to receive revelation about what is right and wrong.#

The Book of Mormon itself admitted it contained inaccuracies and that the human hand would always mean some error. Joseph Smith described it as the most correct book not the most perfect book.

98.6% accuracy isn't enough for me when I can get 100% accuracy of what God wants his servants to say once a month at least.

Make no mistake about it. The Bible is 100% the word of God, the errors are in the translations between Greek and English. If you can't accept the Bible as 100% the world of God then you must reject it in it's entirety.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where does the Bible teach how to administrate the earthly affairs of a church? Where does the Bible teach how to appropriately discipline one's children? Where does the Bible teach that we should read the Bible? l

Duetoronomy, Timothy...1 & 2 Corinthians. To start, would you like others ?

God does not command in all things, and he does not give all knowledge at once. Nor is He done giving knowledge or commandments.

Absolutely he does, To say that he doesn't is to say that the Bible isn't relevant today.

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. Only the New Testament was written in Greek.

This is purely Semantics and the logic of the argument stands. Regardless of Greek or Hebrew is ilrelevant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Make no mistake about it. The Bible is 100% the word of God, the errors are in the translations between Greek and English. If you can't accept the Bible as 100% the world of God then you must reject it in it's entirety.

I have to disagree here. When I find a conflict within the Bible the first place I go to find confirmation of truth is to my Heavenly Father in prayer. Heavenly Father,through the Gift of the Holy Ghost, will tell me all things I am ready to know.

I love the Bible. I love the New Testament. I love the Book of Mormon. The reason: Because all three testify of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. All three tell me He is the Son of God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Make no mistake about it. The Bible is 100% the word of God, the errors are in the translations between Greek and English. If you can't accept the Bible as 100% the world of God then you must reject it in it's entirety.

I am sorry but this galls me, and maybe after an emotional week its bugging me even more than normal. But who made you God? Why should I place you above God in my life? Right now in this post you are telling me you know more about the Word of God than my Heavenly Father.

All my life I have done my best to serve and love my God, and have you any idea how appalling it is that you tell me I must do something that God says is wrong? I have no reason to trust your word about anything. I have every reason to take what the God who has guided me wisely says over anything any human says.

This is precisely why I was not Christian before I became LDS. Too many people who think they are more important than an individuals relationship with their God and this turning the Bible into an Idol.

You can worship the Bible if you like, but I personally will continue to put God first in my life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Duetoronomy, Timothy...1 & 2 Corinthians. To start, would you like others ?

Specifics. I would like to know specific information on the questions I posed. I daresay you won't find lengthy or detailed passages. There is general information about families and raising good children and being good parents. There are references to Jesus having read scriptures, but a directly instruction for the rest of us? And how about administering the earthly affairs of a modern-day church?

My point is, you can't find everything in the Bible. It is a great starting point, and yes, it's full of doctrine, but it's not a complete guidebook.

This is purely Semantics and the logic of the argument stands. Regardless of Greek or Hebrew is ilrelevant.

The fact is, we don't have the original texts, so there's no way to confirm the accuracy. We are basing accuracy claims on the information given to us by those who made the translations -- of course they're claiming near-perfect accuracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Specifics. I would like to know specific information on the questions I posed. I daresay you won't find lengthy or detailed passages. There is general information about families and raising good children and being good parents. There are references to Jesus having read scriptures, but a directly instruction for the rest of us? And how about administering the earthly affairs of a modern-day church?

My point is, you can't find everything in the Bible. It is a great starting point, and yes, it's full of doctrine, but it's not a complete guidebook.

.

I know and part of me wonders how on Earth someone can hope to understand the Bible without the rest of the blessing we enjoy. General Conference, The Ensign, The Gift of the Holy Ghost, The Temple.

As Latter Day Saints we understand the Bible better than any other group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi CHowell. I hope you are having a great evening or morning or afternoon or whatever time it is where you are. :)

I noticed you didn't answer my question. I would be really interested to know the answer. Do you believe as the Bible says that Adam and Eve did not receive a knowledge of good or evil until they partook of the fruit? If so, what knowledge was it they possessed that would have allowed them to procreate? If not, how do you resolve that conflict in doctrine when the Bible clearly teaches it?

Also, i have some other questions based on the underlying/implied argument that God did not intend for the fall to happen.

1. How is that even possible if God knows the end from the beginning as declared in Isaiah 46:9-10? I have a hard time believing God could possibly be blindsided by that.

2. Why would God even put the tree of knowledge of good and evil there in the first place if he did not intend the fall?

3. Why did God permit the serpent to be in the garden knowing it would tempt Eve?

4. Why was Jesus foreordained as our Savior from "before the foundation of the world" as in 1 Peter 1:19-20 if the fall wasn't part of the plan?

Thank you for your time and patience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are excellent questions, Connie, and while I think that our friend may have been a fair weather one, there are a couple of things I would like to point out.

First, there was another tree in the garden of Eden. It was the tree of life. Adam and Eve were not instructed not to eat from this tree. If they had stayed in the garden they would have lived forever. If they had children there, they also would have lived forever. How could we all have possible fit on this planet?

Second, the Bible that most protestant churches use is an altered one, by their own leaders. When the protestants broke away from the Catholic church, there were several books removed. The Catholic Bible still contains these books. These books, and descriptions are available in our current Bible dictionary. I find it ironic that these same protestants point the finger at us about changing the Bible, when their leaders did this very thing long before our Latter-day church was founded.

Lastly, the Bible itself mentions books of scripture that are not available to us in this day...

"book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21: 14); book of Jasher (Josh. 10: 13; 2 Sam. 1: 18); book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11: 41); book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29: 29); book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29: 29); book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29: 29; 2 Chr. 9: 29); prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9: 29); visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9: 29; 2 Chr. 12: 15; 2 Chr. 13: 22); book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12: 15); book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20: 34); sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33: 19); an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5: 9); possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3: 3); an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4: 16); and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1: 14). To these rather clear references to inspired writings other than our current Bible may be added another list that has allusions to writings that may or may not be contained within our present text, but may perhaps be known by a different title; for example, the book of the covenant (Ex. 24: 7), which may or may not be included in the current book of Exodus; the manner of the kingdom, written by Samuel (1 Sam. 10: 25); the rest of the acts of Uzziah written by Isaiah (2 Chr. 26: 22).

Matthew’s reference to a prophecy that Jesus would be a Nazarene (Matt. 2: 23) is interesting when it is considered that our present O.T. seems to have no statement as such." (Bible Dictionary, p. 725)

Why were the books the prophets referenced, proving they were scripture, removed? If they are not necessary for our day, then why are they even mentioned?

While I do believe that the Bible is the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly; I, however, believe that obviously, it is not the ONLY word of God.

Edited by jayanna
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, missing books, the books of the apocrypha are listed in the Bible dictionary, which you can find in the gospel library on lds.org. They are listed under 'apocrypha' and each one is listed an described. If you look under 'canon' there is a lot of information there as well.

The books in the apocrypha are not the books mentioned in my previous post, but entirely different ones. None of this information comes from the Book of Mormon, or even Pearl of Great Price, just careful observations about the Bible itself.

I know it takes time, but go ahead and look up the New Testament references, and sure enough, a book named that is not in the Bible, or in the apocrypha.

If you are LDS and believe in latter day revelation you can read in the Bible Dict. that Adam, and Enoch kept books as well, that are not available to us. Just think, getting to read those someday!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

False dichotomy.

Not true, because if you can't accept the Bible as 100% accurate and the Word of God. I highly doubt that God would allow his word to progress without his continuing inspiration and guidance. To accept this one must accept that the word of God was "once" divinely inspired but isn't anymore. The whole Bible throughout it's entire processes has to be inspired and continually inspired. One cannot make the argument that only parts of the Bible are inspired, if you make this argument then you must accept that only parts of the Bible are inspired by God and therefore the whole book isn't inspired. Therefore if the whole word of God isn't inspired then it must have mistakes. God's word cannot have mistakes because God is a perfect deity.

Therefore you're left with little other choice but to fully embrace it or fully reject it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to disagree here. When I find a conflict within the Bible the first place I go to find confirmation of truth is to my Heavenly Father in prayer. Heavenly Father,through the Gift of the Holy Ghost, will tell me all things I am ready to know.

I love the Bible. I love the New Testament. I love the Book of Mormon. The reason: Because all three testify of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. All three tell me He is the Son of God.

To say that there is a conflict in the Bible is to say that there is a mistake in God's Word. To say that there's a mistake in God's word you have to admit that God either stopped guiding the Bible or made a mistake.

Have you ever thought that perhaps the conflict you seem to think you've found is a conflict of your worldview and understanding of theology ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Make no mistake about it. The Bible is 100% the word of God, the errors are in the translations between Greek and English. If you can't accept the Bible as 100% the world of God then you must reject it in it's entirety.

How do you then resolve the conflicts that the Bible seems to have with itself? For instance, in John 1:18 it says "No man hath seen God at any time". But in Exodus 33:11 it says, "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."

Also, the four gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke and John) don't line up exactly chronologically.

I would assume there are countless other examples. So to say that the Bible is 100% the word of God would make God seem contradictory or at the very least, confused. We know He is not. Hence our belief as stated in the LDS 13 Articles of Faith, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." In no way is this slighting the Bible as not being an inspired work. It's simply stating a fact.

God didn't write the Bible. Men did. And men (and women) are imperfect. It's as simple as that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sorry but this galls me, and maybe after an emotional week its bugging me even more than normal. But who made you God? Why should I place you above God in my life? Right now in this post you are telling me you know more about the Word of God than my Heavenly Father.

I certainly would never make the mistake of thinking that I am God, nor would I believe that you should ever put any man above God in your life. What I am doing is challenging your understand and your interpretation because God my heavenly father as suggested to me that this isn't right. Now how can we both pray to God and get conflicting answers ? We can't God's to perfect to tell me one thing and say it's right and tell you another things and say that I am wrong. I am merely seeking to clarify and understand.

All my life I have done my best to serve and love my God, and have you any idea how appalling it is that you tell me I must do something that God says is wrong? I have no reason to trust your word about anything. I have every reason to take what the God who has guided me wisely says over anything any human says.

Do you not think the same argument applies to my point of view ?

This is precisely why I was not Christian before I became LDS. Too many people who think they are more important than an individuals relationship with their God and this turning the Bible into an Idol.

This is a pretty damming attack. Why are you getting all personal on Christians ? Do you have any idea where my faith is ? Do you have any idea what I believe or what my relationship with the Heavenly father is. More or less you've just said that I don't have one, and I am worshiping the Bible like all other Christians. To quote yourself.... "Who made you God and gave you this insight" ?

You can worship the Bible if you like, but I personally will continue to put God first in my life.

Again the personal attacks. Why ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share