How Does LDS Church resolve conflicts with the Bible ???

[CHowell 0]

I was recently introduced to the Mormon church through a good friend of mine recently. Not knowing that they were Mormon's my wife to be and I were invited to church with them. Having grown up in the CM&A and planning on planting a new church roots in the local Bapist church I was always willing to goto church with someone.

After the church service my wife to be and I were totally shocked. At what we had just heard, that being said...I attempted to keep an open mind and not knowing much I started to do some research on the Mormon and LDS churches. As I learned more I became quite troubled.... Basically my question boils down to this...

How does the LDS church resolve conflicts between it's beliefs and what the Bible teaches us. If one accepts the Bible as the Word of God, when teachings of the church conflict with the Bible both can't be right, therefore I am curious as to how the church reconciles it's beliefs with the Word of God. I do have quite a list of issues my research has lead me to believe is conflicting so I am willing to discuss them one by one...

Therefore lets start with the first one in Genesis. How can the Mormon church believe that if Adam & Eve hadn't sinned and committed the first sin, and therefore the fall of man kind we wouldn't be here today ? When that's CLEARLY not what the Bible teaches ?

[Hemidakota 2]

Which bible are you using? Welcome to the forum...

[UrbanFool 0]

I don't understand your question, but it might be me. What are you asking about Adam & Eve? As far as I know, we don't have contradictions with the Bible.

[CHowell 0]

Which bible are you using? Welcome to the forum...

Thank you.... I am using the NIV, but could certainly use the KJV as well. For the points of this discussion.

[Elgama 4]

We use the Bible as far as it is correctly translated.

But i have fantastic news for you God is very much live and He still communicates with us. The Bible is a beautiful sacred work, deep and meaningful, great way to know of God. BUT it is not God, God is more than a book.

Nothing trumps that personal relationship, and we have the advantage of greater understanding than most Christian Churches. We have the Gift of the Holy Ghost and God's prophet on Earth.

I am LDS because God taught me it was the right path, not because the Bible said so. The Bible is the Word of God because God says so.

[Connie 583]

Hello. Welcome to the forum.

It would be helpful if you posted a reference (chapter and verse). :)

[CHowell 0]

I don't understand your question, but it might be me. What are you asking about Adam & Eve? As far as I know, we don't have contradictions with the Bible.

This is something I found on Mormon.org, which I figured was a good resource, and confirmed by a friend of mine.

As God’s first children on earth, Adam and Eve were living in their garden paradise. They didn’t feel any sorrow or pain, which might seem nice, except that without it, they also couldn’t feel joy. They didn’t remember their pre-earth life. If they hadn’t eaten the forbidden fruit, they would have lived like that forever and never had children. Mankind never would have been born or the world populated.

Quoted from: God's Plan of Happiness | Mormon.org

This clearly isn't what the Bible teaches. The Bible tells us in Genesis 2 prior to the fall of man kind. That God commanded Adam & Eve to be fruitful and to multiply.

[Hemidakota 2]

Again, which Bible are you using?

[Elgama 4]

This is something I found on Mormon.org, which I figured was a good resource, and confirmed by a friend of mine.

As God’s first children on earth, Adam and Eve were living in their garden paradise. They didn’t feel any sorrow or pain, which might seem nice, except that without it, they also couldn’t feel joy. They didn’t remember their pre-earth life. If they hadn’t eaten the forbidden fruit, they would have lived like that forever and never had children. Mankind never would have been born or the world populated.

Quoted from: God's Plan of Happiness | Mormon.org

This clearly isn't what the Bible teaches. The Bible tells us in Genesis 2 prior to the fall of man kind. That God commanded Adam & Eve to be fruitful and to multiply.

The Bible also teaches that before the Fall they had no knowledge of good and evil for us they were as small children incapable of sin. They were also in our religion incapable of having children.

Have you ever read CS Lewis' Perelandra?

For me personally I have no desire to reconcile the Bible with my beliefs. my priority is to know I am right with God at the end of each day. The beauty of continuing revelation is you have the full Word of God.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Elgama

[CHowell 0]

We use the Bible as far as it is correctly translated.

But i have fantastic news for you God is very much live and He still communicates with us. The Bible is a beautiful sacred work, deep and meaningful, great way to know of God. BUT it is not God, God is more than a book.

Nothing trumps that personal relationship, and we have the advantage of greater understanding than most Christian Churches. We have the Gift of the Holy Ghost and God's prophet on Earth.

I am LDS because God taught me it was the right path, not because the Bible said so. The Bible is the Word of God because God says so.

Is this to say that the Bible isn't the Divine inspired Word of God ??? Whats the determining factor for if the Bible is correctly translated or not ?

[Hemidakota 2]

Thank you.... I am using the NIV, but could certainly use the KJV as well. For the points of this discussion.

Thanks...now, do you know the difference of the term "TRANSGRESSION" or "SIN"?

[Hemidakota 2]

Is this to say that the Bible isn't the Divine inspired Word of God ??? Whats the determining factor for if the Bible is correctly translated or not ?

A living prophet, which also holds the keys of seership. Seeship is only given divinely to make changes back to the original source. Have you read the Book of Moses located in the Pearl of Great Price?

Missing text:

And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.

And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things known unto their sons and their daughters. (Moses 5:10-12.)

[CHowell 0]

The Bible also teaches that before the Fall they had no knowledge of good and evil for us they were as small children incapable of sin. They were also in our religion incapable of having children.

Have you ever read CS Lewis' Perelandra?

I haven't read Parelandra. Ok I understand before the fall they had no knowledge of Good & Evil got that.

What I don't understand is, where does the idea that before the fall they were incapable of having children come from ??? The Bible doesn't teach us that, because the chapter earlier God's kind of saying go out and have kids, populate the earth. What teaches the LDS church this belief ?

[Elgama 4]

Is this to say that the Bible isn't the Divine inspired Word of God ??? Whats the determining factor for if the Bible is correctly translated or not ?

Like Hemidakota says its only part of the Divine Word of God. We have a prophet, we have the Gift of the Holy Ghost there is that personal relationship with God.

Yes its the Word of God, but it isn't God. Personally my issue with Chrisianty is the turning the Bible into an Idol, and using it to replace God.

[UrbanFool 0]

We just went through the Transgression/Sin thing with our missionaries.

[Elgama 4]

I haven't read Parelandra. Ok I understand before the fall they had no knowledge of Good & Evil got that.

What I don't understand is, where does the idea that before the fall they were incapable of having children come from ??? The Bible doesn't teach us that, because the chapter earlier God's kind of saying go out and have kids, populate the earth. What teaches the LDS church this belief ?

Well the one thing contained in the Bible is the fact they didn't have children in the garden, Eve wasn't even pregnant when they left. Modern revelation gives us an understanding of why.

[Hemidakota 2]

Sad part, as Joseph Smith seen in the first chapter, a older Jew clergy who had no authority even change the singular use of the word GOD from GODS or council of the GODs. This was a problem among the early clergy, who took no thought when it came to translating from one language into another, they needed this priesthood key.

[CHowell 0]

A living prophet, which also holds the keys of seership. Seeship is only given divinely to make changes back to the original source. Have you read the Book of Moses located in the Pearl of Great Price?

Missing text:

And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.

And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things known unto their sons and their daughters. (Moses 5:10-12.)

But in Chapter 3 of Genesis one of the punishments God hands out is that he's going to greatly increase a woman's child bearing pains (Paraphrasing).... But if he's going to increase them, this would imply that they were going to be there beforehand which would imply that a woman would be bearing children before the fall.

If you believe that the Bible is the Devine inspired Word of God, Then how can can you add text into it or claim that text was missing ?

[Hemidakota 2]

We just went through the Transgression/Sin thing with our missionaries.

I never had the missionaries lesson before joining the church and had to learn it later the differences to make the connection of why GOD did not call it a sin.

[Hemidakota 2]

But in Chapter 3 of Genesis one of the punishments God hands out is that he's going to greatly increase a woman's child bearing pains (Paraphrasing).... But if he's going to increase them, this would imply that they were going to be there beforehand which would imply that a woman would be bearing children before the fall.

If you believe that the Bible is the Devine inspired Word of God, Then how can can you add text into it or claim that text was missing ?

You are right...it was possible for Eve to bear children but without knowledge, which fruit did provide (meaning - opening their eyes), what prevented both Adam and Eve in making this happen if I look at them as a adolescent child . But that is a different story to talk about.

It is not your fault some clergy decided in your interest what to remove and what to change. It is only by a person who receives this key by divine methods and is greater than a prophet. Today, we have such a prophet, it was Joseph Smith who passed the keys through priesthood ordination to now - Thomas S. Monson.

What is a Seer. “A seer is a revelator and a prophet also” (Mosiah 8:15–16), and when necessary he can use the Urim and Thummim or holy interpreters (Mosiah 8:13; 28:16). There have been many seers in the history of God’s people on this earth, but not so many as there have been prophets. “A seer is greater than a prophet … and a gift which is greater can no man have …” (Mosiah 8:15–18). Joseph Smith is the great seer of the latter days. In addition, the First Presidency, the Council of the Twelve, and the Patriarch to the Church are sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators. For other references see 1 Sam. 9:9; 2 Sam. 24:11; 2 Kgs. 17:13; 1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29; 33:19; Isa. 29:10; 30:10; JST John 1:42; 2 Ne. 3:6–14; D&C 21:1; 107:92; 124:94, 125; 127:12; 135:3; Moses 6:36, 38. (https://beta.lds.org/scriptures/bd/seer?lang=eng&query=seer)

Edited August 9, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Elgama 4]

If you believe that the Bible is the Devine inspired Word of God, Then how can can you add text into it or claim that text was missing ?

We don't add anything God does. Personally I am not about to tell God He should stop guiding us. Are you?

my favourite scripture is Mormon 9

31 Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him; but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been.

32 And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the areformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.

33 And if our plates had been asufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.

34 But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared ameans for the interpretation thereof.

35 And these things are written that we may rid our garments of the blood of our abrethren, who have dwindled in unbelief.

36 And behold, these things which we have adesired concerning our brethren, yea, even their restoration to the knowledge of Christ, are according to the prayers of all the saints who have dwelt in the land.

[Connie 583]

Hi CHowell. I hope your doing well.

As you undoubtedly recall, Adam and Eve did not even know they were naked until they partook of the fruit. This implies an innocence. Is it possible to procreate without a knowledge of the significance of nudity? Just something to think about.

Regards

[UrbanFool 0]

I never had the missionaries lesson before joining the church and had to learn it later the differences to make the connection of why GOD did not call it a sin.

My husband grilled those missionaries into the ground with questions before he was satisfied.

Because frankly, we were discussing exactly this issue, and I'm wondering about the birth pains too, what were they to be compared to?

[Hemidakota 2]

Another observation I found early before joining the church was the conflicting of plural usage as to OUR and US, in the first couple of chapters of Genesis.

[CHowell 0]

You are right...it was possible for Eve to bear children but without knowledge, which fruit did provide (meaning - opening their eyes), what prevented both Adam and Eve in making this happen if I look at them as a adolescent child . But that is a different story to talk about.

It is not your fault some clergy decided in your interest what to remove and what to change. It is only by a person who receives this key by divine methods and is greater than a prophet. Today, we have such a prophet, it was Joseph Smith who passed the keys through priesthood ordination to now - Thomas S. Monson.

So let me see if I understand this... According to the LDS, you can claim that the Bible is essentially incomplete/inacurate.

Because you don't accept that God was guiding the individual who proposed Changes ? However you accept that somehow through this prophet God is guiding him to make changes to the Bible, the book of Mormon, and anything else ?

SO what's the difference between individual 1 and individual 2 ? Why can you accept God's Divine guidance on individual 2 and not individual one ?

Secondly...did you know that Bibles today whether it be the NIV, KJV etc are translated to aproximately 98.6% of the original greek text. Therefore they're translated from the Greek text into the translation that they are to goto and therefore are 1st generation citizens of the translated text.

Thirdly...How many times has the book of Mormon been translated, modified, updated and refined ? Why is more faith placed in this process then faith placed in the translation fo the Bible ?