Does Heavenly Father know what we are going to do before we do it?


ColoradoGuy
 Share

Recommended Posts

This is not an easy question in my mind. My wife is of the opinion that he does, but I'm not so sure. I do believe that Heavenly Father knows every outcome of decisions made and the chain of events that follow. But saying that he knows the choices I'm going to make before I make them seems counter to the his plan in the first place. He knows in any given situation the choices available to me and how each would play out, but does he really know the choice I'm going to make? What is the purpose of coming to this earth if he already knows the choices I'm going to make?

For instance when I'm driving home today, I can take one of 4 or 5 different routes home. I haven't made up my mind which one I'm going to take. As I'm driving I could change my mind at any point and take a different route.

I know this is deep, but if anyone has any council from any talks they've read or heard I would appreciate info on this topic.

Thoughts anyone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 108
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

He knows in any given situation the choices available to me and how each would play out, but does he really know the choice I'm going to make?

Yes.

That's the short, simple answer.

Long answer: You're standing in front of a house that's on fire. You're watching it burn. You hear a siren off in the distance and a long, red truck stops in front of the fire. A bunch of men in yellow rubbery-suits pop out.

Do you think:

A: They are firemen and they're there to stop the fire, or;

B: They love crumpets by a bonfire and are about to have tea.

In this case, you know what those men will do. There is no doubt in your mind these men will try to stop the fire.

That being the case, I have some questions for you:

1) Does knowing what a fireman will do because you know his nature make what he's doing irrelevant?

2) Does knowing what a fireman will do make what he's doing less heroic?

Simply knowing someone's actions does not invalidate them. Even if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, so because heavenly father knows me better than anyone, he will automatically know what I'm going to do in any given situation? I was trying to think of a Gospel instance and the only thing I could come up with was when Jesus told Peter he would deny him 3 times before the day was done.

So what about my example of driving home (I know - very deep spiritual example - haha - just want to keep this simple). Driving home I could decide to take a left instead of going straight to get home.....does this make sense?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And, so what if He does know in advance? That doesn't change the need for us to experience it to grow, and to prove to ourselves that our eternal assignment is just. (I trust He knows what kingdom we will qualify for, but if He were simply to assign us to what He knows is right, would we be willing to accept that as just?)

Foreknowledge doesn't mean predestiny. It doesn't really change anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh how I miss Elder Maxwell. Good thing we have some of his very insightful teachings available to us. Here is something he said about the matter.

Our own intellectual shortfalls and perplexities do not alter the fact of God’s astonishing foreknowledge, which takes into account our choices for which we are responsible. Amid the mortal and fragmentary communiques and the breaking news of the day concerning various human conflicts, God lives in an eternal now where the past, present, and future are constantly before Him (see D&C 130:7). His divine determinations are guaranteed, since whatever He takes in His heart to do, He will surely do it (see Abr. 3:17). He knows the end from the beginning! (see Abr. 2:8). God is fully “able to do [His] … work” and to bring all His purposes to pass, something untrue of the best-laid plans of man since we so often use our agency amiss! (see 2 Ne. 27:20). (LDS.org - Liahona Article - Care for the Life of the Soul)

Think about it for a minute. Because of that astonishing foreknowledge, God was able to prepare the completely relevant to our day book of scripture called the Book of Mormon. President Benson pointed that out.

“Second, the Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ. It confounds false doctrines and lays down contention. (See 2 Ne. 3:12.) It fortifies the humble followers of Christ against the evil designs, strategies, and doctrines of the devil in our day. The type of apostates in the Book of Mormon are similar to the type we have today. God, with his infinite foreknowledge, so molded the Book of Mormon that we might see the error and know how to combat false educational, political, religious, and philosophical concepts of our time.” (Ensign, Jan. 1988, p. 3.)

I actually think FunkyTown's answer is in harmony with the reality of this matter, only God's ability to look ahead is far more astonishing than ours.

Regards,

Vanhin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was trying to think of a Gospel instance and the only thing I could come up with was when Jesus told Peter he would deny him 3 times before the day was done.

How about knowing that Joseph Smith would be faithful and be able to restore the gospel as foretold? How about Nephi telling of John seeing in vision the end of times and that he would write of it? How could Nephi know that many plain and precious parts of the Stick of Judah would be lost if He didn't know precisely what individuals would do? Why would God trust Noah to begin building a ship if He didn't know whether or not Noah would follow through (should God have commanded many to build arks to hedge his bets?) How did Lehi, Nephi, and others know what would happen to the Nephites four generations after the Savior appeared in the Americas? How did God know that the people He placed on earth at that time would reject the gospel and become hardened?

What about ancient scripture foretelling of a Savior coming to the earth, and that the Savior would be able to accomplish the work that was given Him to do? Or even that the people of the day would be so hardened as to crucify their own Savior despite the miracles?

On, and on, and on. The scriptures and our own lives are replete with evidence of God knowing how this life will play out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So did Heavenly Father know that Joseph would make the choice to give Oliver Cowdry the lost portion of the Book of Mormon?

I say yes! And that is perhaps why (in part) the small plates of Nephi were inserted by Mormon - to replace much of what was lost with the manuscript pages.

How did Jesus know that Judas would betray him when during the last supper he prophesied of it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure and I totally see your point. But in the instance of Joseph giving the plates to Oliver. He had multiple choices each with there own series of outcomes. For instance: Give the manuscript to Oliver - and we saw what happened. Don't give the manuscript to Oliver which would have deviated down another path. Tell Oliver he's being replaced as scribe and get lost - yet another path. Do you see what I mean? Joseph could have chose to do any of these or other options, each with their own set of time lined events. So while I know God is infinite living beyond the scope of time as we know it, he does see all of this - these different time lines that are based upon the choices we make.

Your example of Judas is a good one too. Judas had a lot of choices to make, betray, don't betray, just leave town - each of these choices have significantly different outcomes.

So does Heavenly Father know the choices we'll make, or does he just plan for the worst case scenario as the example of the lost manuscript and ensure other accommodations are made for that eventuality.

I mean I could decided to walk out to my car right now and drive 18 hours to my moms house in Ohio or I could stay at work, keep my job and continue supporting my family. Each of these choices have significantly different outcomes and the ability to change the outcome of my life and the lives of my loved ones.

To say that Heavenly Father knows the choice I'll make before I make it speaks to me that my destination in this life (Telestial, Terrestial or Celestial) is already determined and judgment day isn't even here yet!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No. IMO

If he knows what we will do in a (at 1-23-2011 joe will run over a kid in the street) then Joe has to do so.

I think he knows in a knows in a (Joe had a lot to drink tonight and is going for a drive, he is going to kill someone)

I understand the, just because he knows doesn't mean he made the choice but the idea he knows it all would contradict the idea of an all loving God because of the horrible things we can go through.

I also understand trials and that this life is short but there are some things that are just plain cruel IMO if he knows all.

I don't buy toys for my kids at the store (horrible event in their life) , to them this is the cruelest thing in the world, but i see the big picture know that if they are good we are going to Disney world. (Celestial Kingdom)

Horrible things can happen and i'm still a loving father.

However if i know the future...

My kids want a puppy (family).They beg for it(pray). I know for a fact that they are allergic (sin separating family) but i buy it for them for the week (this life) knowing FOR A FACT they will have to return it (inherit lower kingdom).

A loving father wouldn't do this IMHO. A loving father wouldn't give them the puppy, knowing they can't keep it will be heart broken. He would tell them no (which might be horrible for that week) but will not matter in the long run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is not an easy question in my mind. My wife is of the opinion that he does, but I'm not so sure. I do believe that Heavenly Father knows every outcome of decisions made and the chain of events that follow. But saying that he knows the choices I'm going to make before I make them seems counter to the his plan in the first place. He knows in any given situation the choices available to me and how each would play out, but does he really know the choice I'm going to make? What is the purpose of coming to this earth if he already knows the choices I'm going to make?

For instance when I'm driving home today, I can take one of 4 or 5 different routes home. I haven't made up my mind which one I'm going to take. As I'm driving I could change my mind at any point and take a different route.

I know this is deep, but if anyone has any council from any talks they've read or heard I would appreciate info on this topic.

Thoughts anyone?

Is GOD Omniscient?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, He does.

Does He know which Kingdom we are going to? Yes, He does.

Does that mean that we know what Kingdom we are going to? Nope, we don't.

So, you say, oh, then if it is already known what kingdom I'm going to, then why should I bother making right choices?

So then you end up in the Telestial Kingdom - just like God knew you would because He also knew you will fail in this particular understanding of the effect of you knowing what God knows.

Read Funky's response again. It explains it very well.

That's why I'm the PRESIDENT OF THE FUNKYTOWN CLUB! He's just good like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is GOD Omniscient?

One of the legs of Hume's Triangle: if GOD is Omniscient, if GOD is Omnipotent, and if GOD is Omnibenevolent, how comes evil into the world?

I remember in my youth that some LDS teacher with a degree in philosophy (not religion) said that we're about the only Christian church that escapes Hume's triangle. I think that two legs are broken because the GOD of Mormonism is a real person and not a series of abstractions derived from Aristotelian and Platonic philosophy.

YMMV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest mormonmusic

Gospel Principles, the Priesthood/RS manual for this year, indicates that one of the blessings of obedience is that God may allow you to see the future. Therefore, it's not a stretch to conclude that God knows the future -- how else can He show it to you if He doesn't know it himself? Therefore, he knew what man would do before He did it.....of course, all this is conjecture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes.

That's the short, simple answer.

Long answer: You're standing in front of a house that's on fire. You're watching it burn. You hear a siren off in the distance and a long, red truck stops in front of the fire. A bunch of men in yellow rubbery-suits pop out.

Do you think:

A: They are firemen and they're there to stop the fire, or;

B: They love crumpets by a bonfire and are about to have tea.

In this case, you know what those men will do. There is no doubt in your mind these men will try to stop the fire.

That being the case, I have some questions for you:

1) Does knowing what a fireman will do because you know his nature make what he's doing irrelevant?

2) Does knowing what a fireman will do make what he's doing less heroic?

Simply knowing someone's actions does not invalidate them. Even if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Funk Town - I have to admit I read your post a bit too quick. I've spent some time reading - re-reading and pondering and I think you are absolutely correct. Our actions are not irrelevant even though Heavenly Father knows what we will do. It is the heart of the person and their desire to improve and become better people. So if I set my sights at the Celestial kingdom and always try to improve myself (along with my choices) with that goal in mind I can achieve it someday......right?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He can move back and forth in time...that is how he showed Lehi and Nephi the virgin Mary hundreds of years before...this is in the BoM. This is how he showed Isaiah the future...he actually took them there.

So yes, he knows what you are going to do, even if you suddenly decide to turn left from the right hand lane. :o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share