Does Heavenly Father know what we are going to do before we do it?


ColoradoGuy
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Playing Hiding-go-Seek with God

You think you are well hidden in the crevice of a tree, when from out

of nowhere comes a booming voice, "I've seen you".

;)

Moksha, this is pretty good but I suggest you save it for when you are asked to give a talk on foreordination versus eternal ennui.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It is for educational purposes on our part.

Lehi, Nephi, Isaiah, modern day prophets, you, me, etc.

There is also no need for Him to walk on water, He can appear anywhere at will; but He did, for educational purposes.

He time traveled for our education? Is that what you are saying? Please explain. How is the made up idea of time travel for our education?

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Okay, for one example He took Lehi and Nephi to see the virgin Mary and the baby Jesus. It had not happened yet. 1Ne. Chapter 11.

See the heading 'He sees the Mother of the Son of God...He sees the baptism, ministry, and crucifixion of the Lamb of God' six hundred years before it happened. He actually saw it while it was happening, not extrapolating a guess based on past behaviors.

This is not made up, this is scripture. Don't call it time travel if you don't want to, call it whatever label makes you happy, but to discount the experience altogether because of semantics...

Until you experience it yourself, please don't make fun. :(

Nephi wasn't just told about it. He saw it. To learn about it. To share it with others. Education.

The Lord was educating them.

He walked on water to teach Peter a lesson about faith. Matt. ch 14. He wasn't just showing off, He could have just appeared on the boat, descended from above, got spat up by a fish, or any manner of transportation, there was a purpose.

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Okay, for one example He took Lehi and Nephi to see the virgin Mary and the baby Jesus. It had not happened yet. 1Ne. Chapter 11.

See the heading 'He sees the Mother of the Son of God...He sees the baptism, ministry, and crucifixion of the Lamb of God' six hundred years before it happened. He actually saw it while it was happening, not extrapolating a guess based on past behaviors.

This is not made up, this is scripture. Don't call it time travel if you don't want to, call it whatever label makes you happy, but to discount the experience altogether because of semantics...

Until you experience it yourself, please don't make fun. :(

Nephi wasn't just told about it. He saw it. To learn about it. To share it with others. Education.

The Lord was educating them.

He walked on water to teach Peter a lesson about faith. Matt. ch 14. He wasn't just showing off, He could have just appeared on the boat, descended from above, got spat up by a fish, or any manner of transportation, there was a purpose.

This isn't semantics at all and I am not discounting the ability of foresight. I believe in the ability of foreordination and foresight.

There is a huge difference between having foreknowledge and experience. To say there is not a difference between those two things, to suggest it is just semantics, is to give no additional value to any event that is "brought to pass" which is God's work. If one could time travel (again a made-up concept) then they could experience a future event, not just see it, they could live that moment, they could gain the glory from that event that hasn't happened yet. I do not believe God can do that and this is why He needs to "bring to pass" events, they actually have to happen to gain the glory from that event not just seeing the future. Those two things are very very different and important. It is important to understand the difference because it hits home the whole reason we are here on this Earth. If God could simply show us the future like He did Nephi and that was the equivalent to experiencing it himself, then there would be no reason for Nephi or us to experience it, or when it happened there would be nothing that changed, nothing to be joyous about of have any more joy than we had when we saw it for the first time. And if God can see all things into the future and that was the equivalent to experiencing it, then His glory would not increase it would stay the same forever. But I believe in a God that has increasing glory, works without end, continually expanding. So, if you want to believe in a stagnant time traveling God, you can call it that if you want to but don't make fun of my glory expanding God until you have experienced that.

In a small way, I think we have all experienced this to some degree. When I was a teenager I started to imagine my future life, I imagined I would get married in the temple and have children, I could see myself doing those things. When it actually happened the experience of it happening was more than just seeing it happen. Even a day before the wedding, I could see it pretty clearly but still it was not the same thing as actually going through it. Again, this is just a small example as God's foresight is off the charts compared to mine. Don't you think God has seen all those souls that He will give Eternal life? And yet still His work is to "bring to pass" that event, it is not sufficient to just see it.

Edited by Seminarysnoozer
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Don't call it time travel if you don't want to, call it whatever label makes you happy, but to discount the experience altogether because of semantics...

Until you experience it yourself, please don't make fun. :(

Captain Picard may have scoffed too until he encountered 27th Century Vorgons trying to abscond with the Tox Uthat, during his vacation on Risa.

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Thanks, Moksha :)

snoozer, 'stagnant'? 'made up ideas?' who is making fun of whom? That's okay, I know I sound weird sometimes. :)

I think ' just seeing' can do quite a lot.

Seeing caused Lehi to take his family into the wilderness.

Seeing let Nephi know how important the work he was doing would be to his posterity. Read 1 Ne. Ch. 11. Where Nephi prays to the Lord, and he prayed to "behold the things which my father saw"

It was important enough to him, to know that what his father saw that was yet to happen was not just "imaginings" that Laman and Lemuel accused him of.

In verse 7 the angel tells him what to expect to see, and what is expected of him to do afterward...the angel says "thou shalt also behold a man descending out of heaven, and him shall ye witness; and after ye have witnessed him ye shall bear record that it is the Son of God" present tense.

He is shown, as it is told in that chapter, the birth of Christ, along with many other things including

the following several verses ...where he describes seeing the baptism of Jesus, His teaching the people, healing them, the twelve disciples, the atonement, and he said "I saw and I bear record"

As for the idea of a changing god..Mormon Ch. 9 verses 9&10:

9: For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?

10: And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have ye imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles.

I would encourage you to read it, pray about it, and gain a testimony for yourself as to whether or not his words are true. If you will pray like Nephi did, wanting to know the truth for yourself, the Lord will reveal things to you, too...

1 Ne 10: 18 For he is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.

19: For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.

Nephi explains that right before he tells us of being taken by an angel to see events that are yet to happen six hundred years in the future.

I, like Mormon and many other prophets, believe in an unchanging God, and that "men are, that they might have joy," 2 Ne 2:25.

God already has a fulness of joy, as described in 3 Ne. 28:10. Jesus says that we shall have a fulness of joy, even as the Father hath given Him fulness of joy.

And I believe that you shall receive this fulness of joy, too. :)

Edited by jayanna
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Thanks, Moksha :)

snoozer, 'stagnant'? 'made up ideas?' who is making fun of whom? That's okay, I know I sound weird sometimes. :)

I think ' just seeing' can do quite a lot.

Seeing caused Lehi to take his family into the wilderness.

Seeing let Nephi know how important the work he was doing would be to his posterity. Read 1 Ne. Ch. 11. Where Nephi prays to the Lord, and he prayed to "behold the things which my father saw"

It was important enough to him, to know that what his father saw that was yet to happen was not just "imaginings" that Laman and Lemuel accused him of.

In verse 7 the angel tells him what to expect to see, and what is expected of him to do afterward...the angel says "thou shalt also behold a man descending out of heaven, and him shall ye witness; and after ye have witnessed him ye shall bear record that it is the Son of God" present tense.

He is shown, as it is told in that chapter, the birth of Christ, along with many other things including

the following several verses ...where he describes seeing the baptism of Jesus, His teaching the people, healing them, the twelve disciples, the atonement, and he said "I saw and I bear record"

As for the idea of a changing god..Mormon Ch. 9 verses 9&10:

9: For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?

10: And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have ye imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles.

I would encourage you to read it, pray about it, and gain a testimony for yourself as to whether or not his words are true. If you will pray like Nephi did, wanting to know the truth for yourself, the Lord will reveal things to you, too...

1 Ne 10: 18 For he is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.

19: For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.

Nephi explains that right before he tells us of being taken by an angel to see events that are yet to happen six hundred years in the future.

I, like Mormon and many other prophets, believe in an unchanging God, and that "men are, that they might have joy," 2 Ne 2:25.

God already has a fulness of joy, as described in 3 Ne. 28:10. Jesus says that we shall have a fulness of joy, even as the Father hath given Him fulness of joy.

And I believe that you shall receive this fulness of joy, too. :)

So, simply said then, you do not believe in a God that has expanding glory?

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As for the idea of a changing god..Mormon Ch. 9 verses 9&10:

You previously accused me of using "semantics" and here you are doing the same. I didn't say "changing." I used the word "expanding" several times. If I used the word 'change' that was not the message and I think you are picking apart the total message just to find some disagreement. Is God expanding in glory or not? Is His work to "bring to pass" the immortality and Eternal Life of man or not?

Yes, He does the same things over and over and He does not change. But there is a purpose to the work and the purpose isn't to remain stagnant. The purpose is to expand His glory. If time did not pass for God then there would be no expansion. It would be the same all the time. So, if one believes in a time traveling God or a God that is in all time all the time then there would be no expansion of God's glory. To be able to physically experience all time and live every moment of time all the time is different than being able to see the events of the future but remain in the present.

God cannot say that He knows something has happened until it does happen.

By the way, verse 7 is not present tense, the words "shalt" and "shall" means in the future. This is what you said; "In verse 7 the angel tells him what to expect to see, and what is expected of him to do afterward...the angel says "thou shalt also behold a man descending out of heaven, and him shall ye witness; and after ye have witnessed him ye shall bear record that it is the Son of God" present tense." Meaning, they didn't time travel and experience it, it will happen in the future, it is just a vision.

The bottom line is the question, do you think there is a difference in value between seeing a future event and what happens when it is actually done? If you think the value of seeing something in the future is the same as when it actually happens than you do disagree with what I am saying. If you think there is something different between 'seeing' a future event versus it actually happened, then what is the difference?, what is the added value? I never said there is no value to seeing a future event, just that there is a difference between 'seeing' it versus it actually happening.

Edited by Seminarysnoozer
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Just a thought on 1 Ne 11:7:

"Shall" can also be read as an injunctive/command (in other words, "thou shalt" can mean "you must"). In light of Nephi's declaration of belief (v. 5) and the angel's response in v. 6 (because you believed, "thou shalt behold") - it is plausible to read this as a declaration of Nephi's strong faith ("you must see--I, God, can't stop it, because your faith is so strong", a la Brother of Jared) followed by an injunctive (you must bear record).

Even if you reject this particular reading, realistically, I have a really hard time seeing either a "Nephi time-travelled" or a "Nephi didn't time-travel" from Verse 7.

As for God existing outside of time (or time-travelling): I can't begin to fathom the former; but as for the latter--even if I time travel, time continues to progress for me. If I spend ten minutes with Joseph Smith in 1844, then ten minutes with Noah in 3100 BC, then half an hour with the Savior in AD 30, then ten minutes with Gordon B. Hinckley in 2007, I have still aged sixty minutes and have the benefit of my experience with those four individuals. The only awkwardness I can see from this time-traveling excursion is that, since I was already alive in 2007, there would technically be two "mes" while I was visiting with President Hinckley (maybe we're really polytheists after all?) That issue aside, it seems entirely possible for a time-traveling God to be continually increasing in glory, experience, perhaps wisdom . . . whatever.

Anyway, this is all getting kind of metaphysical for me, so I think I'll shut up. ;)

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I think you are picking apart the total message just to find some disagreement. Is God expanding in glory or not? Is His work to "bring to pass" the immortality and Eternal Life of man or not?.

I just think it is really important for investigators, or people that aren't sure if they want to develop a personal relationship with God, to question His motives for creating the plan of happiness. To bring to pass our progression, and to help us grow to receive eternal life, we need time...while He does not need time.

What I am saying about God is that He does not do any of this for His benefit, while His works are unceasing...He did not create this world to expand anything about Himself. He already has a fulness of joy. He can't get any fuller. This work, it is purely to achieve our fulness of joy.

Yes, He does the same things over and over and He does not change. But there is a purpose to the work and the purpose isn't to remain stagnant. The purpose is to expand His glory. God cannot say that He knows something has happened until it does happen..

The purpose of this work is most simply stated, "Men are that they might have joy."

I do not recall seeing anywhere, in any scripture that God is doing any of this to gain anything for himself...maybe there is one that I am not aware of, if there is I would appreciate you letting me know. I have also never had the impression that any communication with me was to benefit Him, but rather to increase me. But maybe you have had different experiences, I don't know.

it is just a vision

The bottom line is the question, do you think there is a difference in value between seeing a future event and what happens when it is actually done? If you think the value of seeing something in the future is the same as when it actually happens than you do disagree with what I am saying. .

This is very difficult for me to put into words, so bear with me.

There is a distinct difference between dreams, visions, and seeing things happening in another time, or how it seems to me, actually going there.

In dreams there are things that you see that represent other things. It's much like scripture in that each time you analyze that dream, you learn something new.

Visions happen and you see things, but you know that your body has not moved.

The third is feeling like you are traveling somewhere and seems like you are actually there. Like how Paul tries to explain, in 2 Cor. 12: ( "whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell. God knoweth" )

Right down to seeing the threads in people's clothing.

There is not interaction while seeing what people are doing, but there is always someone there with you to help you understand what you are observing. There is no changing of anything in that time. While it I may not be in that time, because I don't feel any personal danger, and I don't recall smelling anything or feeling hot or cold. Although, It is so life changing that I really can't imagine that it is not happening while I am observing it. So, Yes, I guess I am disagreeing with you.

On another note: Sometimes knowing that something will happen, and being prepared to look around while it is happening actually increases the learning in that experience. Instead of being caught up in surprise, and the emotions you might have, there is actually a moment to pay attention to much more around you, and act much much more thoughtfully.

He changes venues like people shuffle cards on a table, it is so effortless, I feel that someday we will all be able to do this, but I don't know how He does it.

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I just think it is really important for investigators, or people that aren't sure if they want to develop a personal relationship with God, to question His motives for creating the plan of happiness. To bring to pass our progression, and to help us grow to receive eternal life, we need time...while He does not need time.

What I am saying about God is that He does not do any of this for His benefit, while His works are unceasing...He did not create this world to expand anything about Himself. He already has a fulness of joy. He can't get any fuller. This work, it is purely to achieve our fulness of joy.

I wasn't talking about joy, I was talking about glory. (You keep plugging in your own words for my words). The act of "bringing to pass" anything requires time. If that is God's work, to bring to pass the immortality and Eternal Life of man, then by definition, He uses time to make that happen. If there is a point in time where man does not have immortality and then at a later time he does, then time has passed. If God thinks that man already has immortality and Eternal Life because there is no time for God then His work would be over, and His work would have ended. But we know that is not true, His work is without end. For a timeless God, all things are already done, there is no work to be done. But He has told us that there is work, we even had a big battle in heaven about this work to decide who should get the glory.

What about Moses 4; " 1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;"

Satan said give me thine honor while Jesus said the glory will be yours.

And what about Moses 1: 31-39; " 31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.

32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.

37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.

38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."

Take note of "for my own purpose", we don't know all of God's purpose because it remaineth in Him, but it is for His purpose. He even says, " I also created them for mine own purpose." Then also take note of the words, "as one earth shall pass away ... so shall another come; and there is no end to my works". He is speaking about future works, if there is a future then there is time for God, He is not timeless. And then take note of the last verse, "this is my work and my glory", it is His glory, He says it right there. You have never seen that scripture?

Also, don't forget what it means to have "an eye single to the glory of God." Jesus is our example in that regard. We also should do good works not for ourselves but for the glory of God. That is a basic Christian teaching. Satan focused on himself, so did Cain.

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Okay,I can read from the words why you think that, but what is your experience?

I think that when His glory is mentioned in the scriptures and principles you have mentioned, it is talking about credit, when good happens, God gets the credit ( or thanks), because He created everything that is good, and everything that is good comes from Him. But He did not create us so that He could get thanks, but that we might have joy. Our very existence is pure charity on His part.

I think that his glory is without time, having no end, and that when another Earth is created it will have its own time...that each has its own time, some greater time, and some lesser time.

But the OP did not ask about the definition of glory, but about seeing the future...so that's why I was not particulary trying to explain glory.

I shared my experience with time movement,

what is your experience with glory? I will not make fun of it.

thanks,

Edited by jayanna
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And then take note of the last verse, "this is my work and my glory", it is His glory, He says it right there. You have never seen that scripture?

Also, don't forget what it means to have "an eye single to the glory of God." Jesus is our example in that regard. We also should do good works not for ourselves but for the glory of God. That is a basic Christian teaching. Satan focused on himself, so did Cain.

Have I ever seen that scripture?

wait a second, you took a thread about seeing what will happen and made it about me, and accusing me, and Adam, of being like Satan? is that what I'm thinking it is?

I have tried to explain what the OP was asking about, I even shared my personal experience, and in response you are trying to rip me to peices? PLease tell me this isn't so.

Are you wanting to discuss and learn and grow, without being angry and vindictive toward me? It is hard to understand without any tone.

What are your motives here?

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I think if you want to discuss glory, and the purpose of life that you should start another thread of your own.

I am not being vindictive, I don't know where you get that. I was just being persistent in an idea that I take serious that you are blowing off as simply being "semantics". You obviously don't think my discussion has any merit because you are telling me it is not related to the OP at all. But we finally got to the root of the difference in our thinking in that you don't think God has expanding glory over time. To me that seems like a basic premise to LDS gospel, outlined in the war in heaven scriptures in Moses. We don't know all of God's purpose except the small pieces He tells us.

Glory is related to time which is the focus of this thread in that very scripture, ...this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass ... If one believes that God's glory is stagnant than you are right, it would be easy to say that God could move around from era to era, back and forth or be in all time all the time.

I was using that concept as a way to show that if God could actually live moments in the future and then live at an earlier time and then go back and forth living at all times then there would be no "bringing to pass" of anything, for Him it is already brought to pass. I feel like I am repeating myself. But, I finally get your hangup about this subject too which is that you don't believe in a God that has expanding glory (not talking about whether that is His only motive or not, which of course it isn't). I can tell I am not going to convince you of that, so it is hard to discuss any further how that is related to "time travel" versus foresight.

If you don't like the 'glory' topic then maybe another area would illustrate this, or not, whatever .... Do you think there is anything different experienced by God between seeing something happen in the future versus the moment it actually happens? If you say 'yes' than what is it that He experiences? If you say 'no' than we are on different pages and I guess we will have to leave it at that. One last thought, if you say 'no' to that question then think about the fact that we know God expresses emotion, why would God weep at any event that He is experiencing all the time or that He has experienced previously with a perfect memory of the event? To express emotion suggests there was something different that happened at that moment from moments before. I would suggest that the realization of an event is more important than seeing a future event. ... but I already know you don't believe that, so maybe you think that God's emotion is kind of like parents who watch their kids open presents from "Santa" it is just for our benefit, not any real emotional change, because God does not "change" as you stated so firmly before.

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Okay, as for whether or not God experiences it the same way...I don't know.

All I know for sure is that when I am there, seeing, it is such a profound moment that it changes my life forever. Am I actually there, I don't know. I don't feel temperature, or smell anything, I feel like I am safe and only observing. Does it evoke emotions? yes, just remembering it gets me all upset. Do I learn something? Yes

Does He learn something or feel something? I don't know. It must not have a bad effect on His glory, or He wouldn't do it.

Another example that I think might help explain the emotional part is...

When I was a little girl there was the space shuttle that my school class were looking forward to launching. We studied all about past missions and the peole that would be on the shuttle, including the school teacher. The week finally came for the launch. In the morning I woke up and my radio came on, at least I thought it was the radio coming on. I heard a news report that said that the shuttle had exploded shortly after take off, killing everyone. I was devastated. I cried all morning, getting ready for school...I got to my classroom, and when the teacher mentioned the shuttle launch, and watching it in class, I told her it was too late. I told her that it had blown up and everyone was dead. She replied that the launch had not happened yet...and it hadn't, but it took some evidence to convince me of it.

WHen it actually did happen, I was still really sad, I still cried for that teacher and her family. Everyone was kinda freaked out by me, but I did get a chance to notice some things and was more prepared to comfort my friends about it.

That kind of thing I think of as a vision, not actually traveling anywhere...but I think that might help you understand what I'm trying to explain.

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Do you think there is anything different experienced by God between seeing something happen in the future versus the moment it actually happens?

Now who's using made-up constructs? The notion of foresight attributes to God the magick of clairvoyance.

You and I have been down this road before. You openly admitted that you cannot conceive of multiple time dimensions, and so you ignore it as science fiction. This model is no less valid than your model of a Jedi God who sees things before they happen.

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Now who's using made-up constructs? The notion of foresight attributes to God the magick of clairvoyance.

You and I have been down this road before. You openly admitted that you cannot conceive of multiple time dimensions, and so you ignore it as science fiction. This model is no less valid than your model of a Jedi God who sees things before they happen.

I think you are missing my point too. All I am asking is if there is a difference between living a moment versus somehow, whatever way you want to call it, seeing it or knowing about a future event that hasn't yet happened? Is there a difference between the value of those two things?

Lets say I can see in the future that I will have 15 grandchildren, and I can see it perfectly, what they look like everything, the dates etc. Is that the same as when it actually happens and I experience it 'live'? If not, what is it about living it that is different?

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I think you are missing my point too. All I am asking is if there is a difference between living a moment versus somehow, whatever way you want to call it, seeing it or knowing about a future event that hasn't yet happened? Is there a difference between the value of those two things?

There is and there isn't. There is a difference between knowing physics and standing at the edge of an arc confident that the massive pendulum won't break every bone in your body. Everybody flinches the first time because they haven't yet obtained the experience. That's why we entered mortality.

But then take the case of President Kimball (you can find this story in your Kimball manual, lesson 2). 50 years after his mother died he got to thinking about it and felt as though he should start sobbing like a little child. Some emotions/experiences are so powerful that they transcend time.

In the case of God, I agree with you that he is "bring[ing] to pass the immortality and eternal life of man", which means that in our timeline there are some things that have yet to be done. But I also think it's plausible that he has "[brought] to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" in his timeline. Meaning, he has already felt the joy over this earth and received the glory for this earth and moved on to the next in his timeline, but for us in our timeline such work is not yet completed (and so we're only aware of his pre-completion joy and glory).

The bottom line is that what Jayanna and I have both presented are models that conform to the required qualities attributed to God. He is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. We've even shown that within these models God has the additional qualities of Joy and Glory. In addition to this, these models also explain how some of these attributes work - specifically omniscience.

Some other models I've heard presented on this thread are the probability model (God fills in the game theory matrices and optimizes it for the results he wants), which means that God doesn't really know what you'll do but he has a pretty good idea (and he's already stacked the deck in his favor). Another is the parallel earths model (God has several versions of this earth running, and the one that ends up the way he wants it will be called good (I guess he scraps the failed ones? - proponents of this idea should flesh it out better for us)), which means that God doesn't know what you'll do before you do it but like the probability model knows the big picture and where everyone fits. And then there's the prior knowledge model (probably closest to what you've been describing - God has had a premortal eternity to get to know us and so has gained perfect predictablity skill), which means that God does know exactly what we'll do before we do it. And the multiple times model (God exists outside of our time, meaning he can freely move backwards and forwards in it), which also means that God does know what we'll do before we do it.

I like this model because it more closely fits in with the "one eternal now" statement that's been thrown around. It also describes a God with more power than the other models do. You don't seem to think that God needs to travel in time, and I can respect that - but calling it "made up" is really quite unfair. All of the models listed above can be called made up - including yours. What we know about God is what he has revealed to us and the rest (as to how it all comes together) is left open.

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