False Prophets

[UrbanFool]

I'm curious. This is an excerpt from a paper by Elder Russell Ballard. Are we doomed to follow a false prophet in the last days? What if Dieter Uchtdorf is the Anti Christ? Does each person just have to pray for themselves for the right answer? Or are we looking for a rogue Apostle who breaks from the main group of the General Authority? I would not follow anyone who came up to me on the street and insisted they were the prophet, but if it came from within the church, how would I determine the truth?

Some Latter-day Saints may not be aware of it, but there are “false prophets” rising within and without the Church. They believe they have had revelations, that they know something the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles don’t know. We need to be very careful of such people. Members who are ever approached by anyone claiming special authority or revelation from God outside the sustained priesthood authority should turn and run from them as fast as they can. The Savior said that in the last days even the very elect could be pulled away from the truth by such false prophets.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

I must be out of the loop. Has Dieter Uchtdorf (whom I like for other reasons) claimed to have had revelations? Other general authorities?

[UrbanFool]

No. He's just very charismatic and fits the description. I could have used any GA's name there.

[applepansy]

The quote answers your question:

Quote:

Some Latter-day Saints may not be aware of it, but there are “false prophets” rising within and without the Church. They believe they have had revelations, that they know something the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles don’t know. We need to be very careful of such people. Members who are ever approached by anyone claiming special authority or revelation from God outside the sustained priesthood authority should turn and run from them as fast as they can. The Savior said that in the last days even the very elect could be pulled away from the truth by such false prophets.

Only the Prophet and the Twelve Apostles can receive revelation for the church as a whole. Anyone else claiming such revelation is who Elder Ballard is talking about. Which means we don't need to worry about Pres. Uchtdoft. He's one of the Twelve. :)

[UrbanFool]

Elder Ballard specifically mentions false prophets rising within the church. I don't think a Bishop would be in a position to do much damage, I don't know about the 70. How high up do you have to go to influence a decent amount of people?

[Faded]

Elder Ballard specifically mentions false prophets rising within the church. I don't think a Bishop would be in a position to do much damage, I don't know about the 70. How high up do you have to go to influence a decent amount of people?

There was a bishop somewhere in the Idaho Falls/Rexburg area who was receiving revelations, telling people's fortunes/futures and telling them what the choices in their lives would lead to, telling them who they should marry, etc. From what I understand, he stepped it up a notch and got himself excommunicated -- then started up his religion. He thinks of himself as a prophet.

Yeah, those kind of guys.

But let's look at a past false prophets. James Strang was initially the most successful claimants to succession to Joseph Smith Jr, other than Brigham Young. He was a High Priest from what I understand, and had only been a member of the Church for 3 or 4 months when Joseph Smith was killed. Strang apparently didn't need to be an apostle, bishop, high council member, seventy, or even be a member for a full year. All he needed was charisma and willing, gullible followers.

"Shortly after Smith's murder on June 27, 1844, Strang announced that Smith had appointed him to take over leadership of the church. His claims were quickly rejected by ten of Smith's Twelve Apostles, who gained the support of most church members in Nauvoo. However, Strang managed to win enough disciples to form a viable organization of his own. Among the more prominent of these were four of the eleven witnesses to The Book of Mormon,c three of Joseph Smith's apostles,d a leading bishop of his church,e[5] and several members of Smith's family, including his mother. Nearly all of these later repudiated Strang"

Edited August 19, 2010 by Faded

[Vanhin]

Well I think anyone in the Church can be in a position to do damage. I see it from time to time, people claiming to have received revelations beyond what God has chosen to reveal to us through his prophets. We should prayerfully stick to orthodoxy, as found in the scriptures and the doctrines consistently taught in Church publications, and the words of the living prophet, even when discussing things out here.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[Tarnished]

I ran into a person like this, a false prophet if you will. When I was at college I had a bishop who "told the future" people in my ward would go to him to have him tell them what would happen in their future. He claimed to have personal revelation for every person in the ward.

My roommates at the time went to visit him on a weekly basis, it was quite disturbing. At one point my roommates became worried because my boyfriend and I were thinking about getting married and they felt that we were moving too quickly so they reported me to the bishop. He called me in and told me that if I married my boyfriend that my husband would have many female friends, he would cheat on me and I would have a terrible marriage. My boyfriend at that time is currently my husband, he has never cheated on me, he has never had a female friend while we have been married and I have never been happier than I am married to him. We sent that bishop a wedding invite when we got married.

Later I asked someone who grew up in the area about the man, it turns out he has started his own church and set himself up as the prophet of it. This is what I think Elder Ballard was talking about. People who claim to have revelation that overrides that of our leaders. People who claim to have personal revelation for other people when they really don't. I don't think we have to worry about the First Presidency or the Twelve Apostles.

[prisonchaplain]

LDS.net has false prophet filters, so whoever this might be will not likely make his/her advent on this site. :-)

[Tarnished]

Elder Ballard specifically mentions false prophets rising within the church. I don't think a Bishop would be in a position to do much damage, I don't know about the 70. How high up do you have to go to influence a decent amount of people?

As related in my earlier comment, a bishop can influence quite a number of people, especially depending on where they are located. At the very least they can influence their own ward, and the people in that ward can influence people they know. The bishop I spoke about had quite a following, and from what I hear now that he has his own church he has a good following there as well.

There was also the man who decided to write the book of Lehi, and pass it off as real. He made things up, the way he figured Joseph Smith did, and he led quite a number of members away from the church. I don't know that he actually held any position at all.

[Faded]

LDS.net has false prophet filters, so whoever this might be will not likely make his/her advent on this site. :-)

PC will use his special dual-action antichrist/false prophet detector goggles to find them and destroy them!!

[Wingnut]

Elder Ballard specifically mentions false prophets rising within the church. I don't think a Bishop would be in a position to do much damage, I don't know about the 70. How high up do you have to go to influence a decent amount of people?

How about a father? Doesn't he influence his children? And his children's children? And their children?

A bishop has more influence over lives than one might imagine at first glance. Take for example, a branch president I once knew while I was a missionary. There was something that made us very uncomfortable about this man. We tried to overlook it, figuring it had to do with our bias that comes with the tunnel vision of mission life, but something still felt very "off." We observed it in his interactions with branch members, particularly younger women. Nothing inappropriate was happening (on the surface we could see), but his behavior was often somewhat untoward. My district leader, who was also serving in the branch at the time, spoke with our mission president about it. The mission president had received similar observations from other missionaries, and had spoken with the stake president, but did not have any direct stewardship in the matter.

The man had been branch president for 6 or 7 years at the time. His branch had the highest rate of baptism in the entire mission. Missionaries loved serving there because the people were humble and ready to hear the Gospel. The branch, strangely, also had the lowest retention rate in the entire mission. About a month in the area, my companion and I, along with the elders also serving in the branch, decided we needed to do something about it. All the converts we baptized were quickly falling away, and the branch president didn't seem to care at all. In PEC one Sunday morning, the district leader suggested that the branch could be doing more to retain its new converts, especially in light of President Hinckley's strong focus on retention. The branch president quickly cut him off, saying that retention wasn't important. He explained that it had been his experience and observation that "everyone goes inactive after they're baptized. Even I did for a year. Then I served a mission, got married in the temple, and look at me now." It was clear that that was the end of the discussion.

Six months later I returned home from my mission. Later that year I attended a mission reunion. There, I spoke with a guy who had later served in that area under that branch president. He and his companion had gone to the branch president's home one day to speak with him about something (I don't know what). The branch president's wife sent the elders into the room in which the branch president was. They walked in to find him watching pornography.

After I was married, I attended a stake conference at which Elder David A. Bednar was in attendance. He spoke about prophets. He spoke about how prophets are not just the President of the Church and the Council of the Twelve. He spoke about how our stake president was the prophet of our stake, and our bishops were the prophets of our wards, and our husbands and fathers were the prophets of our homes.

(1) He was a branch president, and had not just influence, but responsibility, stewardship, priesthood keys, and a sacred charge to watch over a number of people.

(2) He plainly stated to me that retention wasn't important, in direct defiance of prophetic counsel.

(3) In observing pornography, he rendered himself unworthy of the guidance of the Holy Ghost to help him lead his branch.

(4) Within his own designated area, he was a prophet, or was supposed to be.

Was he a true prophet, or a false one?

Edited August 20, 2010 by Wingnut

[Faded]

I ran into a person like this, a false prophet if you will. When I was at college I had a bishop who "told the future" people in my ward would go to him to have him tell them what would happen in their future. He claimed to have personal revelation for every person in the ward.

My roommates at the time went to visit him on a weekly basis, it was quite disturbing. At one point my roommates became worried because my boyfriend and I were thinking about getting married and they felt that we were moving too quickly so they reported me to the bishop. He called me in and told me that if I married my boyfriend that my husband would have many female friends, he would cheat on me and I would have a terrible marriage. My boyfriend at that time is currently my husband, he has never cheated on me, he has never had a female friend while we have been married and I have never been happier than I am married to him. We sent that bishop a wedding invite when we got married.

Later I asked someone who grew up in the area about the man, it turns out he has started his own church and set himself up as the prophet of it.

He could have AT LEAST been right about me being very rich and successful. I mean, c'mon, I was counting on that one!!

C'mon man, show me the !!

[Tarnished]

He could have AT LEAST been right about me being very rich and successful. I mean, c'mon, I was counting on that one!!

C'mon man, show me the !!

Oh yea, that is right he said you would be rich and successful, and a salesman. Which has also all turned out false, I could have dealt with the rich and successful part though. *sigh* Oh well, at least you know I didn't marry you for your money.

[Wingnut]

Oh yea, that is right he said you would be rich and successful, and a salesman. Which has also all turned out false, I could have dealt with the rich and successful part though. *sigh* Oh well, at least you know I didn't marry you for your money.

Did you marry him in spite of his money?

[Hemidakota]

Elder Ballard specifically mentions false prophets rising within the church. I don't think a Bishop would be in a position to do much damage, I don't know about the 70. How high up do you have to go to influence a decent amount of people?

It has to be on the level of an Apostle or a prophet.

[Tarnished]

Did you marry him in spite of his money?

I wish, there was no money there. That is ok, what he doesn't have in money he makes up for in sweetness and good looks.

[Tarnished]

It has to be on the level of an Apostle or a prophet.

Why? I have personally seen men lower than an Apostle or a prophet damage the faith of people in the church, so why does it have to be at a higher level?

[Wingnut]

It has to be on the level of an Apostle or a prophet.

Reference please.

[Hemidakota]

Why? I have personally seen men lower than an Apostle or a prophet damage the faith of people in the church, so why does it have to be at a higher level?

Not at a church level...remember those who apostatized from the leadership early in the church? How many were apostles?

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

I can think of one possible modern instance. Prophet, seer, revelator, and President David O. McKay asked Bruce R. McConkie NOT to reprint Mormon Doctrine but he did, implicitly saying that he knew more about Mormon doctrine than David O. McKay.

[Hemidakota]

NO comment... :) 'U da man!"

[Faded]

Not at a church level...remember those who apostatized from the leadership early in the church? How many were apostles?

Several were apostles, true. But the most successful really was James Strang and he wasn't an apostle or seventy to begin with.

He drew as followers:

Of the Three Witnesses: David Whitmer, Martin Harris.

Of the Eight Witnesses: John Whitmer, Hiram Page,

Former Apostles: John Page, William Smith, William McLellin.

Bishop George Miller.

And Lucy Mack Smith for good measure.

Sure he wasn't an apostle or a leader of anything at all. He was only a High Priest. And sure he was only a member for 4 months before Joseph Smith died. But he managed to deceive a pretty astounding list of "the elect."

He would continue to be the most successful false successor until some years later. He was eventually crowned "King of Beaver Island" in an elaborate ceremony. It wasn't too long after this that he ended up being assassinated by several of his own followers who believed he was leading them to disaster.

Strang may have been the most successful imposter in the history of the Restored Church. All it takes is a charismatic opportunist.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Faded

[Hemidakota]

Nice but not according to Joseph Smith.

[Captain_Curmudgeon]

Strang may have been the most successful imposter in the history of the Restored Church.

Strang is also responsible for the hyphen in "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." After the break up, he managed to get hold of the rights to "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

(PS. After the Strangites were driven from Beaver Island, some of my wife's relatives gained possession of Strangite property.)