False Prophets


UrbanFool
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No. He's just very charismatic and fits the description. I could have used any GA's name there.

Not Elder Dieter Uchtdorf, he is one of the best. Sounds more like what's his name.

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I can think of one possible modern instance. Prophet, seer, revelator, and President David O. McKay asked Bruce R. McConkie NOT to reprint Mormon Doctrine but he did, implicitly saying that he knew more about Mormon doctrine than David O. McKay.

What was up with that anyway? Had he gained such stature via marriage rather than by calling?

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I'd be less concerned about apostles and seventies leading people astray. When we think about false prophets and anti-Christs, we often imagine a highly charismatic person who will lead away hundreds or thousands of people from the Gospel. Personally, I'm more worried about the thousands of false prophets in our wards that might lead away 4 or 5 people at a time. Bishops are in a perfect position to lead a few people astray, as are Relief Society presidents, young men and young women presidents, etc. All it takes is a little attitude of "I know better than the prophets" and we've lost a few people. These people frighten me as much as they do because we think they're so harmless.

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Just to point this out again.

Some Latter-day Saints may not be aware of it, but there are “false prophets” rising within and without the Church. They believe they have had revelations, that they know something the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles don’t know. We need to be very careful of such people. Members who are ever approached by anyone claiming special authority or revelation from God outside the sustained priesthood authority should turn and run from them as fast as they can. The Savior said that in the last days even the very elect could be pulled away from the truth by such false prophets.

That is not talking about apostles, though obviously that can happen too. The quote is about anyone who would lead you astray, either within or without the Church who claim to know something the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles don't know, or claim to have revelation outside the sustained priesthood authority.

Vanhin

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Just to point this out again.

Some Latter-day Saints may not be aware of it, but there are “false prophets” rising within and without the Church. They believe they have had revelations, that they know something the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles don’t know. We need to be very careful of such people. Members who are ever approached by anyone claiming special authority or revelation from God outside the sustained priesthood authority should turn and run from them as fast as they can. The Savior said that in the last days even the very elect could be pulled away from the truth by such false prophets.

That is not talking about apostles, though obviously that can happen too. The quote is about anyone who would lead you astray, either within or without the Church who claim to know something the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles don't know, or claim to have revelation outside the sustained priesthood authority.

Vanhin

I was just about to mention that the key word in that statement is ANYONE. Thanks for pointing it out.

Also it would be nice that when statements are made if people can actually post a reference for the claim they are making OR state clearly that it is their personal opinion to avoid us to be waiting for the answer or searching something that may not even be accurate.

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I can think of one possible modern instance. Prophet, seer, revelator, and President David O. McKay asked Bruce R. McConkie NOT to reprint Mormon Doctrine but he did, implicitly saying that he knew more about Mormon doctrine than David O. McKay.

That is simply NOT TRUE. :)

Fact: In 1960 President McKay asked Elder McConkie then a Seventy to not have the book reprinted.

However, in 1966, President McKay asked Elder McConkie to reprint Mormon Doctrine with some appropriate changes and Elder Spencer W Kimball was assigned to assist. All in all 50 things were revisited and the tone was softened and some of the commentary regarding other faiths removed. No item of church doctrine was changed or corrected.

The Brethren were initially concerned that a Seventy had written a book titled Mormon Doctrine without first consulting with them and also because of the harsh treatment of such practices as reading written talks or playing face cards and of course the Catholic Church.

Elder McConkie was called as an Apostle in 1972.....six years after the reissue. Highly doubtful that a man so devoted to the Lord and HIS church would defy the President of the Church and still be called to serve as an Apostle and sustained as a Prophet, Seer and Revelator.

Let's not besmirch the good name of a Brother with untruths and falsehoods. You can say a lot about Elder McConkie...love him or not...he loved the Lord and was the man the First Presidency called on to handle doctrinal issues and secularism creeping into the church.

As he once quipped to his son on his way to give a talk at a BYU fireside, "tell them to heat up the tar, I'm coming to speak!"

Edited by bytor2112
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I mentioned before that I know at least 3 guys who claim they have received revelations from God in a number of issues. One of them claim to be a member of the Church of the Firstborn and that the atonement of Christ no longer applies to him because he and his wife had their Call and Election Made Sure (outside the temple). This same person approached me with the intention of finding out whether or not I wanted to receive it because he could make it possible.

Yes, you can well imagine my face when he said that. The leaders were warned because he would go around the wards preaching his doctrine and encouraging people to listen to his message, the interesting thing about him is that many people listened to him because he USED Church doctrine AND the scriptures to support some of his theories.

My last communication with him was after he told me there is nothing wrong with being naked around people and some other stuff I cannot share here...

Hence, for me is a HUGE, HUGE RED FLAG when anyone claims to have received their Call and Election Made Sure because if someone receives such a sacred experience, I would think they would keep it as the most sacred experience in their lives and won't go around publishing it online, in a magazine or be boasting for the world to hear.

Did I mention how charismatic he is? He is VERY charismatic and MOST false prophets are!

Edited by Suzie
typo
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That is simply NOT TRUE. :)

Fact: In 1960 President McKay asked Elder McConkie then a Seventy to not have the book reprinted.

However, in 1966, President McKay asked Elder McConkie to reprint Mormon Doctrine with some appropriate changes and Elder Spencer W Kimball was assigned to assist. All in all 50 things were revisited and the tone was softened and some of the commentary regarding other faiths removed. No item of church doctrine was changed or corrected.

The Brethren were initially concerned that a Seventy had written a book titled Mormon Doctrine without first consulting with them and also because of the harsh treatment of such practices as reading written talks or playing face cards and of course the Catholic Church.

Elder McConkie was called as an Apostle in 1972.....six years after the reissue. Highly doubtful that a man so devoted to the Lord and HIS church would defy the President of the Church and still be called to serve as an Apostle and sustained as a Prophet, Seer and Revelator.

Let's not besmirch the good name of a Brother with untruths and falsehoods. You can say a lot about Elder McConkie...love him or not...he loved the Lord and was the man the First Presidency called on to handle doctrinal issues and secularism creeping into the church.

As he once quipped to his son on his way to give a talk at a BYU fireside, "tell them to heat up the tar, I'm coming to speak!"

And further, Elder McConkie wrote all the chapter and section headings in the current version of the Standard Works (See LDS.org - Ensign Article - Elder Bruce R. McConkie: Preacher of Righteousness).

Vanhin

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We agree that that's a fact. The rest of it seems to rest on JF McConkie's biography. Since internal discussions in the church seem to stay internal, we'll have to wait for the rest of the story.

So, you think he ...lied? I wonder if the Lord would call such a man who you think held himself in higher regard that the Prophet to serve as an Apostle? Not likely.

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We agree that that's a fact. The rest of it seems to rest on JF McConkie's biography. Since internal discussions in the church seem to stay internal, we'll have to wait for the rest of the story.

The important fact is that he was never officially disciplined at any point during his tenure as an Apostle. That means that he didn't get above himself and over-reach his authority. He died as an Apostle of Jesus Christ in good standing. I don't think anything else needs to be said on the matter beyond that.

We know very well that apostles and prophets are human and capable of error -- just like every Biblical prophet or apostle that ever lived. That is part of the reason they collaborate and look after one another -- kinda like McKonkie and President McKay did.

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We've been told that the Prophet will never lead us astray. We also understand that the 12 as a Quorum will never lead us astray. If we follow the body of the Brethren, we will not have an individual trick us into another path.

Ram, Prophet we do know will not lead us astray but not the apostles. It has already seen in the church a few have fallen.

But to continue on here, same members here cannot be bother to search or even research for themselves but always seek a quick easy answer.

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The important fact is that he was never officially disciplined at any point during his tenure as an Apostle. That means that he didn't get above himself and over-reach his authority. He died as an Apostle of Jesus Christ in good standing. I don't think anything else needs to be said on the matter beyond that.

We know very well that apostles and prophets are human and capable of error -- just like every Biblical prophet or apostle that ever lived. That is part of the reason they collaborate and look after one another -- kinda like McKonkie and President McKay did.

I will have to say, I truly marvel of the depth and great knowledge of this wonderful Apostle but only the brethren would know the inside knowledge of what transpired. Does this take away anything that he accomplish? Not one bit. I still have and will always retain, the Mormon Doctrine in my own collection.

Thanks for standing up in his behalf...I do stand next to you. This also includes, Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdry, and others who fell away and came back to the fold. :D

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We agree that that's a fact. The rest of it seems to rest on JF McConkie's biography. Since internal discussions in the church seem to stay internal, we'll have to wait for the rest of the story.

I didn't read this before I posted my remarks concerning this Apostle. But you are right...most do not understand that they do not always agree on everything. I learned this from one of the Apostle a few years ago when someone asked about this.

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But to continue on here, same members here cannot be bother to search or even research for themselves but always seek a quick easy answer.

I think it's a matter of common sense and fairness. If a person states their personal opinion they don't have to provide any source for their statement (because it's their personal view of course and they should stated as "MY" personal opinion). However when they state as a fact something that someone else said (a Prophet, a leader, etc) then the person needs to be prepared to back it up with a source because it can be misleading if the information is not accurate (which can happen) and we don't want to mislead folks here, right? :) So really, it's not a matter of seeking a quick answer but a matter of providing the source for the claim that is being made. It is only fair. :)

Edited by Suzie
typo
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But to continue on here, same members here cannot be bother to search or even research for themselves but always seek a quick easy answer.

I hope this isn't in reference to me asking this question. I consider posting here as part of my research. There's only so fast I can read the 14 open windows in my browser before it decides to go on strike and I lose all of those sources. (They're inevitably impossible to find again.)

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I think it's a matter of common sense and fairness. If a person states their personal opinion they don't have to provide any source for their statement (because it's their personal view of course and they should stated as "MY" personal opinion). However when they state as a fact something that someone else said (a Prophet, a leader, etc) then the person needs to be prepared to back it up with a source because it can be misleading if the information is not accurate (which can happen) and we don't want to mislead folks here, right? :) So really, it's not a matter of seeking a quick answer but a matter of providing the source for the claim that is being made. It is only fair. :)

And I would point out the source doesn't always have to be on the Internet. But at least include a reference to the source, so that if someone wanted to look it up they could.

However, the orthodox doctrine of the Church, as taught in the scriptures, is easy to establish from official online sources. If it is a doctrine that is consistently taught in Church publications, you will find it on lds.org... So, I always look there for references, and even then I stick to curriculum, scripture helps (like the Guide to the Scriptures), and talks by prophets and apostles. I rarely quote any one else besides General Authorities (mainly apostles), unless they are subject matter experts on archeology or some other field like that, and their quote is credible.

Regards,

Vanhin

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One thing I probably should have mentioned at the beginning, as one who reads every apocryphal book they can lay their hands on, I got through most of the "Left Behind" series, so I'm kind of expecting one person to rise up and rule the world so to speak. Someone that almost everyone trusts, regardless of faith.

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One thing I probably should have mentioned at the beginning, as one who reads every apocryphal book they can lay their hands on, I got through most of the "Left Behind" series, so I'm kind of expecting one person to rise up and rule the world so to speak. Someone that almost everyone trusts, regardless of faith.

(Left Behind) Never read the material. It is always intersting to see some past recorded talks. Sifting through my 2010 journal, I was looking for the quote concerning the state of the Saints (where they will be on even keel with evil non-members) in Utah prior to the Lord's return from President Youung, when I stumbled on this:

PROPHECIES OF HEBER C. KIMBALL

I claim not to be a prophet, but I am a son of a prophet, and I expect to give you evidence that shall be left with you—that Heber C. Kimball was a Prophet of God. President Brigham Young on more than one occasion said: "Heber is my prophet, and I love to hear him prophesy."

In May, 1868—that is sixty-two years ago—he said:

After a while the Gentiles will gather in Salt Lake City by the thousands, and this will be among the wicked cities of the world.

He said also:

An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth to search out the righteous and warn the wicked of coming events.

All kinds of religions will be started and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect, if such a thing were possible.

Persecution comes next, and all Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit.

Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do.

Before the Temple reaches the square our brethren will be imprisoned until the penitentiary shall be full, and some of them will be removed to other penitentiaries.

Mothers will weep for their husbands, and children will cry for their fathers. Some will die, and sorrow will fill the hearts of the Latter-day Saints.

When the Temple roof is on, the persecution will lessen, but when the Temple is completed the power of the Evil One will be shut out.

The prayers of the Saints will then be heard. The sick will be taken there and healed.

The Spirit of God will rest upon the people, and work for the dead will be continued night and day.

The judgments of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the Gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews.

The western boundaries of the State of Missouri will be swept so clean of its inhabitants that as President Young tells us, "when we return to that place there will not be as much as a yellow dog to wag his tail."

Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to the test that will try the very best of them.

The pressure will become so great that the righteous among us will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes.

In 1856—that is seventy-four years ago—a small group of friends convened in the house of the Lord, called the Endowment House. The conversation was about the isolated condition of the Latter-day Saints.

"Yes," said Brother Heber, "we think we are secure here in the chambers of these everlasting hills, where we can close the doors of the canyons against mobs and persecutors, the wicked and the vile, who have always beset us with violence and robbery, but I want to say to you, my brethren, the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a saint from the face of an enemy against the people of God.

"Then is the time to look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and many will fall."

"For I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming."

He further said:

This Church has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with glory.

The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess a personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got this testimony, you must live right and call upon the Lord, and cease not until you obtain it.

Remember these sayings: The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within himself. If you do not have the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, how can you stand?

Do you believe it?

(Claude Richards, J. Golden Kimball: The Story of a Unique Personality ( 1934) )

Edited by Hemidakota
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Sidelining here: Apostle Orson Pratt was quite adamant about what shall happen after the cleansing of Missouri prior for those who are left in the church will return to Jackson County:

Well then, to return to the prophesying, when the time shall come that the Lord shall waste away this nation, he will give commandment to this people to return and possess their own inheritance which they purchased some forty-four years ago in the state of Missouri. (Orson Pratt, Deseret Evening News, Vol. 8, No. 265, October 2, 1875, p. I.)

Now, there are a great many cities in the United States that will not be totally destroyed when the inhabitants are swept off the surface of the earth. Their houses, their desolate cities will still remain unoccupied until Zion in her glory and strength shall enlarge the place of her tents, and stretch forth the curtains of her habitations. That is the destiny of this nation, and the destiny of the Latter-day Saints. (Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 24, pp. 31-32, October 26, 1879)

Although the saints may not have to fight to reclaim the center place of Zion, this does not imply that they will necessarily return in peace. If anarchy and mobs are still sweeping the nation when the Church returns there will certainly be problems in moving a group of people as large as the prophecies indicate without some conflict. In a most interesting sermon by Joseph F. Smith, this is substantiated. His statement is also significant for it is one of the few prophecies that talks about the transportation on the way back to the East.

. . . When God leads the people hack to Jackson County, how will he do it? Let me picture to you how some of us may be gathered and led to Jackson County. I think I see two or three hundred thousand people wending their way across the great plain, enduring the nameless hardships of the journey, herding and guarding their cattle by day and by night, and defending themselves and little ones from foes on the right hand and on the left, as when they came here. They will find the journey back to Jackson County will be real as when they came out here. Now, mark it. And though you may be led by the power of God "with a stretched-out arm," it will not be more manifest than the leading the people out here to those that participate in it. They will think there are a great many hardships to endure in this manifestation of the power of God, and it will be left, perhaps to their children to see the glory of their deliverance, just as it is left for us to see the glory of our former deliverance, from the hands of those that sought to destroy us. This is one way to look at it. It is certainly a practical view. Some might ask, what will become of the railroads? I fear that the sifting process would be insufficient were we to travel by railroads. We are apt to overlook the manifestations of the power of God to us because we are participators in them, and regard them as commonplace events. But when it is written in history-as it will be written it will be shown forth to future generations as one of the most marvelous, unexampled and unprecedented accomplishments that has ever been known to history. (Joseph F. Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 24, pp. 156-157, December 3, 1882.)

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