Doubts


Greg95821
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So, here's my story:

I joined the church about a year and a half ago after a long and illustrious career as an atheist. I could go into my conversion story, but it's not really important for my current issues. Anyway, when I joined the church, I did so more because it felt right rather than any other reason.

So after the first lessons, there wasn't anything particularly objectionable about the church to me. Sure, I had some doubts, but nothing I didn't think I could work through. Then I started studying my scriptures, and other books written by general authorities and the likes. I avoided non-LDS sources, as I felt they're reliability was dubious at best.

Anyway, what I'm taking forever to say is, I have found a few things that aren't quite sitting right with me. Because I have found all these things in fairly official publications, I can't really discount them as untrue, even though many of them are no longer official church doctrine. The Journal of Discourses is one of the chief offenders, containing things such as: the Adam-God theory, black skin as the mark of Cain, polygamy as a requirement for exaltation, ect.

Now, I've tried to find official church reasoning for these principles no longer being valid. The usual argument I see is that these writings are opinion rather than actual revelations received. The thing is, I can find no was to distinguish prophetic writings from non-prophetic one, other than which are convenient to group into either category. Furthermore, President Woodruf's manifesto which ended polygamy states that the head of the church will not be allowed to teach false doctrine, so I don't see how the argument can even really get off it's feet.

I'd like to conclude by saying that I have no intention of going inactive. I still believe that the LDS church is far more true than any other church. It follow the new testament better than any other Christian denomination and the old testament better than any Jewish denomination I know of. The church's adherence to service to it's fellow men and good moral values is admirable. I love the church, I just wish that I could let some of these things go.

Well, thanks for any advice you have to offer!

p.s. If your advice is going to be to pray about it, trust me, I've been working on it. Let's just say I've been invoking James 1:5 excessively lately :)

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Here are a couple of good places for you to start:

Mormon/LDS Answers: Questions about LDS Prophets and the Mormons

Mormon/LDS Answers: Questions about LDS Prophets and the Mormons

Now, I've tried to find official church reasoning for these principles no longer being valid. The usual argument I see is that these writings are opinion rather than actual revelations received. The thing is, I can find no was to distinguish prophetic writings from non-prophetic one, other than which are convenient to group into either category.

Addressing this specifically, there are a few sources to go to:

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted. (Approaching Mormon Doctrine)

Church doctrine/Statements by Church leaders - FAIRMormon

"It is not to be thought that every word spoken by the General Authorities is inspired, or that they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost in everything they write." (Harold B. Lee) (Source)

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I'm a lifelong member, and have many of the same struggles.

I don't believe that prophets are infallible. I think the Church often gets sidetracked. That said, I believe the Gospel itself is true, and I have to work on forgiving our leaders when they are mistaken about something, just as the Lord forgives me for my mistakes and even my willful screwups.

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Thanks for your guys' responses :)

ChadTalbot: I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. All the points I'm taking issue with were made by prophets after they were ordained prophets in general conference speeches and published in church publications.

Wingnut: I can understand where you're coming from with these references, and I've actually seen these arguments made before. These issues in particular are ones that I haven't been able to reconcile with those arguments. Black skin being the mark of Cain, for example, was not an isolated statement taken out of context. It was repeated by various general authorities in official speeches and publications from the winter camp era right up to the 1978 declaration ending black exclusion from the priesthood. The Adam-God theory was preached repeatedly by Brigham Young during his ministry, in sharp contrast to Wilford Woodruf's statement in his manifesto (part of the standard works) that the church's leader would not be able to lie from the pulpit. The church today points out how polygamy was an entirely consensual and optional practice, though again Brigham Young on more than one occasion stated it was a requirement for exaltation.

Again, my point here is not to be argumentative or to try to disprove the validity of any statements made by anybody else. I'm merely trying to wrap my head around how these things and disparity I perceive in how they were and how they're now looked back upon. I'm hoping to find some new way of thinking about these things to eliminate that disparity, though I must admit I have my doubts of whether I'll be able to find a satisfying answer.

At least I agree with everything taught today, eh? :)

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At least I agree with everything taught today, eh? :)

I think this is a good attitude to have. I too struggle at times with past doctrines and practices and it can be difficult at times to reconcile and wrap your brain around. You may find that there may not 100% satisfactory answers to your questions and doubts, but doubt is as much a part of life as belief. I enjoy studying church history but I think if you want to be happy in the church you need to look at the church today and look forward.

Good luck!

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Thanks for your guys' responses :)

ChadTalbot: I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. All the points I'm taking issue with were made by prophets after they were ordained prophets in general conference speeches and published in church publications.

The Adam-God stuff was never presented as revelation. Prophets are men with their own opinions and ideas about things, but are only Prophets when they're Prophets. There was talk during those times of men living on the moon. I think Brigham Young was quoted once as mentioning this. It wasn't revelation, it was an idea that was held by people of that time, inside the church and outside and all around. But because he was a Prophet, it was twisted into 'Brigham Young taught that people lived on the moon, Mormons are crazy, he wasn't a Prophet, nom nom nom nom nom'

A Prophet is only a Prophet, when he's a Prophet.

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I don't believe that prophets are infallible.

If they were, they'd be translated. ;)

In all seriousness though, you bring up a very good point. No one on this earth is infallible, except Christ. Our prophets will voice their opinions verbally or in writing at times, not speaking as a prophet but as a man. And sometimes those opinions are wrong. For whatever reason the Lord does not feel a need at the time to correct them immediately, so we must conclude that they are not things we should be worried about.

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I'm not LDS, but as I've come to understand it, it can be explained by the whole "only opinion" thing, but another explanation relies on the nature of revelations.

Revelations in the Bible, presumably as well as with "modern prophets," are inherrantly vague and often times confusing (ie the entire book of Rev). I've always thought that the "modern prophet" can misinterpret these revelations and that's why nothing becomes official church doctrine until the apostles can pray on it and decide if it is interpreted correctly.

Maybe I'm wrong, idk.

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Guest mormonmusic

Greg -- I have walked in your shoes, and you are light years ahead of where I was when I started having doubts. I think your reasoning is very sound. Focus on the clean living, the good lifestyle association with the Church brings you. Accept that prophets are not perfect, and neither are General Authorities. They sometimes make mistakes and say and do the wrong things. That's why the Lord has chastised prophets like Jonas, Moses, and even Joseph Smith, and that's why Jesus chastised Peter.

Recognizing they make mistakes, as all men do, actually lifts the burden of perfection and all those unrealistic expectations we have that can hurt our activity.

Unfortunately, all those objectionable doctrines will not go away, and neither will the Mormophobic literature out there (not that you listen to it)-- they are part of our history, and something one must tolerate/accept/deal with as the price of being part of the LDS community, and all its benefits.

That's where I'm at right now. You've described my feelings exactly in the opening post when I started having my own doubts years ago. Bravo on what you wrote and how you're dealing with it!

Edited by mormonmusic
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