My boss is in my Stake Presidency! Help?

[onherwayback]

Hello,

Just to quickly introduce myself & give a little background. I found lds.net a couple of years ago when my best friend (who I worked with) would always sign on and give advice. I thought it was a neat idea and I've been checking in on different threads occasionally since then, I think the supportive and kind atmosphere here is great!

Anyway, about me. I was divorced just over a year and a half ago. He has since moved on, re-married and has a baby. Since the divorce, I have been really bitter and angry and I MISTAKENLY blamed a lot of it on the church. So needless to say, I broke temple covenants (stopped wearing garments, stopped attending church and engaged in sexual behavior).

There have been times I have thought about going back but just thinking about the repercussions and the consequences I was going to have to face if I went back kept me from returning.

Now though, I have realized how empty my life is without the Gospel and how unhappy I really have been. I know that it's going to be very difficult to get back to being in good standing and worthy of a temple recommend someday, but I know that this is what I want. No matter what it takes.

I went to church yesterday for the first time in a very, very long time, only to find out that my boss is in the Stake Presidency. My concern is that at some point I will have to stand in front of him (whether interview/disciplinary counsel) or that he'll have access to my records and he'll be able to see what my standing in the church is. I work very closely with him everyday and I know that if finds out about everything, I will not be treated the same, whether intentionally or not.

So my question is: has anyone had this kind of experience before and if so, how did you handle it? Who would I need to talk to, to make an exception and let me attend a different stake? Or would you all suggest that I just go to a family ward for a little while, confess and undergo everything in that ward, and then switch back over to a YSA ward later down the road. Advice?

[carlimac]

Boy, I'd go for option 2. It could be pretty awkward talking to your boss about everything. Best of luck on making a full return. It will be worth it!

[bl8tant]

First of all, it's wonderful that you're coming back. It must have been hard for you to get started, but in the end the results will be more than worth it.

Every stake leader (or bishop, for that matter) that I've known has been able to make a distinction between professional and personal. For example, one brother might be "my friend Matt" when I'm helping paint the basement but "President W" when I see him for an interview. I think it's likely that your boss has this same capability.

More importantly, I've never known a leader in the church who didn't believe in the parable of the lost sheep. I'd bet you lunch that your boss would be delighted to see you returning to full activity and fellowship, and that that delight would outweigh his knowledge of your specific situation.

As you probably know, the bishop will be the person you work with the most closely as you go through the repentance process. He will be able to advise and guide you about the specifics of who you need to see and when. It's likely that you'll be asked to meet with the stake president, and you may have a disciplinary council on either the ward or stake levels. Moving into a different stake or ward doesn't change this.

A few years ago when I was a ward clerk, the rule was that you'd must get permission from the office of the First Presidency to attend a ward or stake other than the one for your home of record. No one can stop you from just showing up and attending another ward, but the bishop of the ward where your records are-- and the associated stake-- are the right people for you to work through this with.

Good luck! I admire your courage and willingness to do what you know is right.

[darrel]

I would think your boss would be delighted if you said to him " I saw you at church (last week etc) and want to tell you I am an inacive member but want to come back. Do you have any advice that will help me"

The Lord will bless you and him to say and do the right thing.

[carlimac]

First of all, it's wonderful that you're coming back. It must have been hard for you to get started, but in the end the results will be more than worth it.

Every stake leader (or bishop, for that matter) that I've known has been able to make a distinction between professional and personal. For example, one brother might be "my friend Matt" when I'm helping paint the basement but "President W" when I see him for an interview. I think it's likely that your boss has this same capability.

More importantly, I've never known a leader in the church who didn't believe in the parable of the lost sheep. I'd bet you lunch that your boss would be delighted to see you returning to full activity and fellowship, and that that delight would outweigh his knowledge of your specific situation.

As you probably know, the bishop will be the person you work with the most closely as you go through the repentance process. He will be able to advise and guide you about the specifics of who you need to see and when. It's likely that you'll be asked to meet with the stake president, and you may have a disciplinary council on either the ward or stake levels. Moving into a different stake or ward doesn't change this.

A few years ago when I was a ward clerk, the rule was that you'd must get permission from the office of the First Presidency to attend a ward or stake other than the one for your home of record. No one can stop you from just showing up and attending another ward, but the bishop of the ward where your records are-- and the associated stake-- are the right people for you to work through this with.

Good luck! I admire your courage and willingness to do what you know is right.

I doubt she would need first presidency approval to attend a family ward instead of a singles ward. The question is, are both wards in the same stake? If so, there wouldn't be much difference in who to confess to.

Another question about disciplinary councils, would the whole stake presidency need to be involved? Perhaps not.

[MarginOfError]

First of all, it's wonderful that you're coming back. It must have been hard for you to get started, but in the end the results will be more than worth it.

Every stake leader (or bishop, for that matter) that I've known has been able to make a distinction between professional and personal. For example, one brother might be "my friend Matt" when I'm helping paint the basement but "President W" when I see him for an interview. I think it's likely that your boss has this same capability.

More importantly, I've never known a leader in the church who didn't believe in the parable of the lost sheep. I'd bet you lunch that your boss would be delighted to see you returning to full activity and fellowship, and that that delight would outweigh his knowledge of your specific situation.

As you probably know, the bishop will be the person you work with the most closely as you go through the repentance process. He will be able to advise and guide you about the specifics of who you need to see and when. It's likely that you'll be asked to meet with the stake president, and you may have a disciplinary council on either the ward or stake levels. Moving into a different stake or ward doesn't change this.

A few years ago when I was a ward clerk, the rule was that you'd must get permission from the office of the First Presidency to attend a ward or stake other than the one for your home of record. No one can stop you from just showing up and attending another ward, but the bishop of the ward where your records are-- and the associated stake-- are the right people for you to work through this with.

Good luck! I admire your courage and willingness to do what you know is right.

This must have been a really long time ago. For as long as I can remember, you've only needed stake presidency approval.

Here are some things you may consider.

• Attendance as student/singles wards is strictly voluntary. Each member of such a ward lives in the boundaries of another ward in the stake and may attend if they choose, but the default congregation for their address is always a traditional ward.
• It will be the bishop of the ward you choose to attend that will preside over any disciplinary council that may or may not be convened, and it will be up to that bishop to decide whether or not one is necessary. When you speak to your bishop, let him know that the stake presidency member is your employer and that you'd rather not cross your employment with your religion.
• The bishop may choose to counsel with your stake president about your situation, but if you request that it not make it to the other member of the stake presidency, then he will likely respect that request.
• You can always request that any future temple recommend interviews with the stake presidency be with a member of the presidency that isn't your boss. They may not agree with the need to do so, but they should at least respect your wishes.

The only other thing I'd say is that you should be prepared for the possibility that - because stake presidencies and bishoprics counsel with each other - your situation may end up being discussed in your boss's presence. You might see a mild change in how he behaves toward you, but if he's a half decent priesthood holder, it will be a positive change as he admires and respects you for your desire to bring your life into harmony with the Gospel. But, if you do notice anything, be honest about your feelings, and be open. The more he understands what you're feeling, the more compassion and empathy he will be able to have.

[rubondfan2]

I doubt she would need first presidency approval to attend a family ward instead of a singles ward. The question is, are both wards in the same stake? If so, there wouldn't be much difference in who to confess to.

Another question about disciplinary councils, would the whole stake presidency need to be involved? Perhaps not.

First to bl8tant, a wonderfully stated post. Thank you for that.

carlimac, to provide some additional insight into your question and for the benefit of the OP and others who might be fuzzy on this as well, I will offer up what I have seen in my experience having served closely with Bishoprics and Stake Presidencies over the years. (I have seen the formal disciplinary process multiple times in great detail and do have some "unofficial" insight.)

The OP is female, which actually makes a difference in many cases. Depending upon whether or not she was (is) endowed or not will also be a large determining factor in whether or not she will be part of a Bishopric disciplinary counsel or a Stake disciplinary one. (Assuming one is even needed... based on her allusion to sexual transgressions, it most likely will be... which is a gloriously cleansing, learning and growing opportunity, I might add.)

Female members who are not endowed, in general will only be required to undergo formal church discipline through the Bishopric. Stake Councils are utilized for Melchizedek Priesthood holders and endowed members and excommunication is the most far reaching consequence that can be imposed by a Stake council. In the case of a Stake disciplinary council, the ENTIRE Stake Presidency and a "quorum" of High Councilmen are in attendance with half the room advocating for "the church" and the other half advocating for "the member"... it is quite an interesting and profoundly spiritual experience.

A Bishopric disciplinary council is just that... the members of the Bishopric and the Ward Clerk (to take minutes) are involved. The "highest" consequence that can come out of this type of council is Disfellowshipment, I believe.

The bottom line takeaway from all of this, in my opinion, is that for those needing to experience the process of church discipline, it is the most loving, supportive and cleansing process that one could ever experience in the Kingdom of God on the earth. Clearly NOT having to go through one is better, but for those who do for whatever specific individual reasons, they receive such a magnificent opportunity to feel the full love and support of their leaders and learn how to reconnect on a much stronger level with their Lord and Savior. (There are many more members who have experienced these types of proceedings than most of us realize.) Finally, they come away with (in the cases I have seen where the individual is truly repentant and serious about the process) a powerful testimony and understanding of the gift, power and miracle of repentance and forgiveness.

To the OP... without even knowing you, I can say that I for one am extremely proud of you for taking this step in your life. Go forward with NO FEAR of this process... whether or not you end up seeing your boss or not. Good luck to you and may the Lord bless you on your journey "home".

rubondfan2

Edited August 30, 2010 by rubondfan2

[MarginOfError]

The OP is female, which actually makes a difference in many cases. Depending upon whether or not she was (is) endowed or not will also be a large determining factor in whether or not she will be part of a Bishopric disciplinary counsel or a Stake disciplinary one. (Assuming one is even needed... based on her allusion to sexual transgressions, it most likely will be... which is a gloriously cleansing, learning and growing opportunity, I might add.)

You date yourself as well. According to the 2006 edition of the Church Handbook of Instructions, disciplinary councils are only convened by the stake president when a Melchizedek Priesthood holder is likely to be excommunicated. For anything else, the bishop convenes the disciplinary council (even for a Melchizedek Priesthood holder who will likely only be disfellowshipped). Whether or not a member has been endowed no longer has any bearing on who convenes the council.

onherwayback, I apologize for the policy discussion. I hope you'll still walk away with the general message of hope, encouragement, and comradery. That's really the important part here. Above all, I hope you feel comfortable going to your bishop and knowing that regardless of policy, the only important thing is that you feel the love of your Savior in your life.

[bl8tant]

This must have been a really long time ago. For as long as I can remember, you've only needed stake presidency approval.

Records have to be kept in the ward in whose boundaries you live; exceptions require approval of both bishops, both stake presidencies, and the office of the First Presidency. See p 145 of the CHI.

(Of course, this rule doesn't seem to be followed very often, and I only learned of it when we had a couple who had an ugly divorce and couldn't decide who got to "keep" the current ward and who had to attend a different one.)

[rubondfan2]

You date yourself as well. According to the 2006 edition of the Church Handbook of Instructions, disciplinary councils are only convened by the stake president when a Melchizedek Priesthood holder is likely to be excommunicated. For anything else, the bishop convenes the disciplinary council (even for a Melchizedek Priesthood holder who will likely only be disfellowshipped). Whether or not a member has been endowed no longer has any bearing on who convenes the council.

Ah, thank you for this more current view of things. I was indeed dating myself, wasn't I? :)

onherwayback, I apologize for the policy discussion. I hope you'll still walk away with the general message of hope, encouragement, and comradery. That's really the important part here. Above all, I hope you feel comfortable going to your bishop and knowing that regardless of policy, the only important thing is that you feel the love of your Savior in your life.

And yes, I echo these sentiments. Policies and procedures are only secondary to the greater blessing and beauty of the repentance process. I too, give my encouragement and hope to the OP to push forward and embrace all that the Lord has to give her both directly and through His servants exercising their Priesthood authority.

[MarginOfError]

Records have to be kept in the ward in whose boundaries you live; exceptions require approval of both bishops, both stake presidencies, and the office of the First Presidency. See p 145 of the CHI.

(Of course, this rule doesn't seem to be followed very often, and I only learned of it when we had a couple who had an ugly divorce and couldn't decide who got to "keep" the current ward and who had to attend a different one.)

Huh...it's been a long time since I've been corrected like that. And I was so close to proving myself infallible too. Shucks!

Thanks for setting me straight.

[onherwayback]

I want to thank you all so much for the feedback and the warmth and compassion which all of you have demonstrated in giving me advice.

I appreciate it SO much and I feel even more sure about my decision to meet with my leaders and do whatever possible to be happy again. I feel so blessed that this church is filled with such loving people. Thanks so much!!

As I read through each of the replies to my post, I felt comfort in knowing that my boss, whether he finds out about it all at some point or another, will in fact just be happy that I am back and that I want to better my life. :)

My only question now is: should I meet with him before/just after meeting with my Bishop just to say "Hey, I don't think you knew this but I have been inactive for a couple of years and I am preparing to meet/have met with the Bishop but I know that you are in the Stake Presidency so you might be finding out much, much more and I hope it doesn't affect our work relationship" or SOMETHING like that. Not necessarily those words?

[bl8tant]

Huh...it's been a long time since I've been corrected like that. And I was so close to proving myself infallible too. Shucks!

Thanks for setting me straight.

The only reason I knew that is because I argued with my bishop over it, and he set me straight. Glad I could pass on the favor :)

[pam]

Hello,

Just to quickly introduce myself & give a little background. I found lds.net a couple of years ago when my best friend (who I worked with) would always sign on and give advice. I thought it was a neat idea and I've been checking in on different threads occasionally since then, I think the supportive and kind atmosphere here is great!

Why do you only have 2 posts then if you always signed on to give advice?

Edited August 30, 2010 by pam

[Wingnut]

Why do you only have 2 posts then if you always signed on to give advice?

She didn't. Her best friend did.

[Gwen]

My only question now is: should I meet with him before/just after meeting with my Bishop just to say "Hey, I don't think you knew this but I have been inactive for a couple of years and I am preparing to meet/have met with the Bishop but I know that you are in the Stake Presidency so you might be finding out much, much more and I hope it doesn't affect our work relationship" or SOMETHING like that. Not necessarily those words?

i would not bring it up with him outside official church situations where it is relevant. i would also mention the the stake pres that the counselor is your boss (if he doesn't already know). the stake pres may understand or share your concern and choose to not involve him. he has 2 counselors, it's not necessary for him to know. and if he does involve him then you can address it at that time.

[Guest mormonmusic]

If you're going to come clean in your boss's stake, then you're embracing the risk he's going to treat you differently. You can't tell how people will react. Personally, if I was a SP I wouldn't do that as I'd be thrilled someone was coming back, but I've seen priesthood leaders react far differently than I would have on a whole host of issues.

If circumstances allowed, I'd just move out of the Stake until this is completely taken care of and blessings are reinstated.

Alternatively, I'd find a way of getting a new address outside of the stake and having my records sent there. Attend that ward using that address. If you're single, this might be a matter of simply renting a room until you can confess and deal with the disciplinary council -- or even paying for a room but staying at your current address.

You could even stay living at your house, if you have one, in your existing Ward. However, if you then transfer your records back into your home stake, your Bishop would be involved in meeting with you to get your blessings back. And[ ,I wouldn't be surprised if your boss is involved in knowing about the restoration of blessings eventually.

Other question -- how long as your boss been a stake president? They tend to switch them out after a while, particularly in areas where there's a lot of talent to draw from. You could get active but just not hold a calling or take the sacrament until he's released.

Just some random thoughts. The level of effort you put into this really depends on how much you want to avoid your SP knowing....

Edited August 30, 2010 by mormonmusic

[pam]

She didn't. Her best friend did.

Thanks. I misread it.

[Wingnut]

If you're going to come clean in your boss's stake, then you're embracing the risk he's going to treat you differently. You can't tell how people will react. Personally, if I was a SP I wouldn't do that as I'd be thrilled someone was coming back, but I've seen priesthood leaders react far differently than I would have on a whole host of issues.

If circumstances allowed, I'd just move out of the Stake until this is completely taken care of and blessings are reinstated.

Alternatively, I'd find a way of getting a new address outside of the stake and having my records sent there. Attend that ward using that address. If you're single, this might be a matter of simply renting a room until you can confess and deal with the disciplinary council -- or even paying for a room but staying at your current address.

Seems like an awful lot of deception to avoid a potential slightly awkward situation.

...your Bishop would be involved in meeting with you to get your blessings back. And[ ,I wouldn't be surprised if your boss is involved in knowing about the restoration of blessings eventually.

She hasn't been excommunicated and therefore won't need a restoration of blessings.

Other question -- how long as your boss been a stake president?

He's not. He's in the stake presidency.

They tend to switch them out after a while, particularly in areas where there's a lot of talent to draw from. You could get active but just not hold a calling or take the sacrament until he's released.

Well I sure hope he wasn't called recently, because she could be waiting nine years.

[pam]

Other question -- how long as your boss been a stake president? They tend to switch them out after a while, particularly in areas where there's a lot of talent to draw from

Every Stake President I have ever known has been in that position at least for 10 years. One guy I grew up with was in his Stake Presidency for almost 20.

In my last stake which I moved into in 1999 still has the same Stake President that was there when I moved there.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Seems like an awful lot of deception to avoid a potential slightly awkward situation.

Awkwardness is in the eye of the beholder.

She hasn't been excommunicated and therefore won't need a restoration of blessings.

She hasn't confessed yet, so no one knows if there will be a restoration of blessings or not. If there is a penalty requiring restoration of blessings, she will have to go through that process and the Stake Presidency may know about it. Even disfellowshipment carries restrictions that need to be lifted.

He's not. He's in the stake presidency.

Stake presidency members may know about it as well. I was executive secretary to a SP and I knew things such as these.

Well I sure hope he wasn't called recently, because she could be waiting nine years.

Let's not leave any stone unturned; she might get fortunate, particularly if he's been in there a long time.

Edited August 31, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Gwen]

changing wards or stakes to me suggests an attempt to hide the process from those called to help her. if that is the case isn't that pride making the decisions? if it's pride then it's not a true repentant heart. i think discretion is called for. no need to go overboard with hiding though.

[Guest mormonmusic]

changing wards or stakes to me suggests an attempt to hide the process from those called to help her. if that is the case isn't that pride making the decisions? if it's pride then it's not a true repentant heart. i think discretion is called for. no need to go overboard with hiding though.

My view is that any priesthood holder that has stewardship over her geographical living area (whereever she chooses to make it) can handle this -- and by moving, or takeing a valid address in another stake -- she is completely consistent with the rules.

And if confidentiality is very important to her coming back, to the point of discouraging her from coming forward due to the potential impact on her job, then moving or otherwise avoiding the member of the SP she works with is a good idea.

I also believe it might be of some relief to the SP member who might feel awkward in the work place after knowing the details of her personal history. Not awkward about helping her come back, but simply placing him in an awkward situation. Moving solves that one.

And further, it's the fact that she confesses and gets past it that determines the repentence of her heart -- not her willingness to stay in the same geographical boundary.

Edited September 2, 2010 by mormonmusic

[jayanna]

You might see a mild change in how he behaves toward you, but if he's a half decent priesthood holder, it will be a positive change as he admires and respects you for your desire to bring your life into harmony with the Gospel. But, if you do notice anything, be honest about your feelings, and be open. The more he understands what you're feeling, the more compassion and empathy he will be able to have.

I second that, I think he will appreciate your dedication to returning to the path your Heavenly Father has asked you to walk.

If your stake pres. is anything like mine, they already know and are waiting for you to return. Like the prodigal son, those to whom your care is entrusted will rejoice and be willing to help you change your life for the better!

Every time I have spoken with my stake pres.y I have felt the love that my Heavenly Father has for me...if you do need to go through some disc. process you should know that it is not just for 'punishment' but will be a cleansing process, to help you let go of past deeds and habits.

I'm pleased at your courage, hang in there!:)

[slamjet]

Bottom Line: How strong is your desire to come back into the fold?

As a woman, you will stand in judgment in front of the Bishopric. Even at that, if you have set aside your "wilder, earthly, carnal" ways, then there is a good chance a court would not have to be called at all. The only way I could see that a definite court would be called would be if you began to be sexually "free" while you were still married.

I'm an ex'd member. But I had to stand and answer for my acts in front of the Stake Presidency and the High Counsel. My experience with them-all is first, the court is a forgotten subject with the High Counsel. Second, with my Stake President and Bishop, my desire to get back into the church and HUGE struggle with a whole host of personal demons along with the progress I've been making (blessings be to God for his intimate involvement in my life), I've been blessed with a healthy respect from them.

Now you may stub your toe. The month before, as I found out, my Stake President was going to call the council together to bring me back into the fold, I messed up royally! The look of disappointment all around was heartbreaking. But they did not toss me aside. I'm struggling right now, but I'm grateful for the healthy respect and support from my leaders. This respect can only come if you have an honest, open dialog with your leaders. Start with your Bishop and let him guide you along. And don't forget he's human. He's going to say something that will tick you off. But keep the bigger message in mind.

Log-winded answer, but I hope you get what I'm driving at.