durante_angelo Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 Hi there. I didn't know where i should belong so i just put it in here (then you can move it somewhere else if it doesn't belong here) Well, i have a buddy in school and he seems to be very confused with the whole thing about baptism and its importance. no wonder when our bible translation is... just bad. I don't know what they were thinking and there's only this one besides the modern versions wich is even badder compared to others (they are easily misunderstanded because of words that can mean many different things) So i decided to show him some scriptures in different languages directly translated, it should help a lot with the understanding :) The last one i want to show is the greek version. I got an idea how it should be written but i want to be absolutely sure before i'm going further, so if anybody is able to help, it would be great! The text is Mark. 3:16, o pisteusaV kai baptisqeiV swqhsetai o de apisthsaV katakriqhsetai Durante Angelo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyB Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 Angelo,What version of the text are you using??Mark 3:16 in USB 4 reads (minus some breathing marks lost in cutting and pasting...16 kai; epoihsen tou" dwdeka, kai; epeqhken onoma tw'/ Simwni Petron, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durante_angelo Posted September 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 .... sorry, it was 1 Kor 15:29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 ...The text is Mark. 3:16,o pisteusaV kai baptisqeiV swqhsetai o de apisthsaV katakriqhsetai... Are you sure you have the correct chapter and verse?M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durante_angelo Posted September 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 (edited) ... i' try again: its where he says: 15 He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. ( it must be mark 16:16) Edited September 3, 2010 by durante_angelo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durante_angelo Posted September 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 ok, this is last time or else i will be too emberassed. it's mark 16:16 where he says: 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. It's "o pisteusaV kai baptisqeiV swqhsetai o de apisthsaV katakriqhsetai" in textus receptus, byzantine majority, latin vulgate ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyB Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 (edited) durante, Sorry don't check here too often these days. Most modern versions don't use "textus receptus" that the KJV was based on. Byzantine text is the text smoothed by the "church", I would have thought LDS would be Alexanderian text supporters. If the church went into apostasy then why would you rely on a text that appears to a have been altered by that very same church. 1st problem is that the oldest texts of Mark end at verse 9 but grammatically it seems very unlikely the original ended there. So Mark 16:16 is a very old alternative ending but probably not an original part of the gospel. So I would use it to indicate what some unknown author from early church history thought about baptism but it isn't apsotolic so I'm not going to use it as a foundation of my beliefs on baptism. (Of course JS might have declared it scripture for LDS but most non-LDS would generally these days not treat it so.) Your translation sounds fine to me. There are no other major textual issues with the verse and it is rather straight forward to translate. If your wanting a thorough run through of the scriptures on baptism from a non-LDS than may I suggest "Baptism: A biblical study" by Jack Cottrell. Edited September 16, 2010 by AnthonyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleTruthSeeker Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 durante,Sorry don't check here too often these days.Most modern versions don't use "textus receptus" that the KJV was based on. Byzantine text is the text smoothed by the "church", I would have thought LDS would be Alexanderian text supporters. If the church went into apostasy then why would you rely on a text that appears to a have been altered by that very same church. 1st problem is that the oldest texts of Mark end at verse 9 but grammatically it seems very unlikely the original ended there. So Mark 16:16 is a very old alternative ending but probably not an original part of the gospel. So I would use it to indicate what some unknown author from early church history thought about baptism but it isn't apsotolic so I'm not going to use it as a foundation of my beliefs on baptism. (Of course JS might have declared it scripture for LDS but most non-LDS would generally these days not treat it so.)Your translation sounds fine to me. There are no other major textual issues with the verse and it is rather straight forward to translate.If your wanting a thorough run through of the scriptures on baptism from a non-LDS than may I suggest "Baptism: A biblical study" by Jack Cottrell.Actually, it is the later manuscript evidence of Mark 16 that carry on the now "long ending of Mark", whereas there are earlier manuscript evidences that do not carry on the Longer Ending of Mark. The two powerful scriptures on baptism are Acts 2 and Romans 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyB Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 Seattle, "Oldest = earliest" but maybe I wasn't that clear. A more exhaustive list for "immersion" (the reason we leave "baptism" untranslated was that translating it from the Greek didn't suit the sponsors of the KJV, there wasn't many other Greeks words we ported into English and left untranslated) Mat 28:18-20 John 3:3-5 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 22:16 Rom 6:3-4 I Cor 12:13 Gal 3:26-27 Eph 5:25-27 Col 2:11-13 Titus 3:5 1 Pet 3:21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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