Lots of questions

[SusieQ1]

Hi :) I'm Susie, and I'll try to make this as short as possible. I believe in the church after meeting with the missionaries for a very long time. I just know in my heart that it is the right thing for me. However, I've run into a few snares along the way.

First of all, I finished all the discussions, had my baptismal interview and had a scheduled baptism. Well, my mother flipped out over my joining a "cult" and I didn't show up to my baptism. I apologized but felt so bad and was worried everyone at church would be mad at me. They weren't...they were all very nice when I went back.

Well, on my first Sunday back after this event, one person wasn't overly nice. A lady took me to church and she commented on my facial piercing (a small Monroe for those of you familiar with piercings). I got the piercing in honor of a friend who died and was very offended when she mentioned I might want to take it out after I was baptized. I also got several disdainful looks at my feet for wearing flip flops. Needless to say, I was very offended. I haven't gone back to church since, because I didn't really want to associate with people who would be so judgmental. I don't think God cares about our outward appearances but the mormon church certainly seems to.

The relief society president found me on Facebook and invited me to lunch to talk about what had happened. I am willing to do this as I miss the church, but...what next? Would I have to go through all of the discussions again in order to be baptized? What if I decide to come back at a later date; do I have to take every discussion once again? I'm also worried I won't find a place where I fit in in the church. I'm not going to take out my piercing or not wear my flip flops just because of what other people might think of me.

Also, I have a lot of antimormon friends and also sometimes visit exmormon.org to find out more about the religion. The people there keep saying that once I'm baptized, the missionaries will drop me, and that most of the other members will sort of forget about me. I don't want to join and then feel like I have no one who cares at church I'm feeling very confused and sad. I really thought this was a positive change in my life and that i was on the right track. Now it feels like a mess

Edited September 11, 2010 by SusieQ1
meant to type "friend who died" not "friend who did."

[pam]

Why go to a site called exmormon.org? Doesn't the name tell you everything? Of course they would say all of those things. They are biased.

[SusieQ1]

Well, it was one of the first things that came up, and I wanted to see what people on the other side of it thought, which I think is smart when checking things out. Of course the missionaries only tell me good experiences people in the church have had, none of the negative ones. I wanted to see it from all perspectives.

[Maya]

Well first ... it says something in the Bible about beeing modest in your clothing.. which includes the pearcing. It also says something about earrings aso that you should not have too many; one in each ear is enough. As you know people tend to follow others example. That means if one has extra pearcing many others will want one too. In your case as it is a memory from a dear friends death.... I think if you openly say it to people they understand better that you dont take it away. Yet it is a risk to them, as their daughters may start asking for one too... and they have no dead friend to take it for. I am afraid you will need a lot of patience with many LDS about this, but there are even more LDS who think it is ok and cool. After all you were not LDS when you tok it. ( I suppose some of us girls can get too found of their beautifulness)

Flip Flops..... Well maybe not the fanciest shoes in world.... just laugh. Some peopel are a bit narrow minded even in LDS. There are wards that welcome peopel in jeans, it really is everyones own decition. Here too may eb the followig of example the gratest fear... think of everyone flpflpoing in teh Church There is also a thing you may learn later about a wish to show the best of you to the Hevenly Father in His house, which is beeing taught to the kids in Church ... but as you say he gladly welcome anyone and everyone.

Members are just people and find it threathening when someone is not the way THEY think is respectfull and which they so diligently try to teach to their kids...

About the teachings and missionaries... I am sure you dont need to take the discusitions over again, but as you like having misionaries for dinner.... I mean for a visit I am sure it would be good they still visit you and you can discuss everything. They know what you need to do over, if any. It also depends how long time ago you had the discusitions if you need to take them over... btw... there is no "discusitions " any more like there used to be so jsuta ask the missionaries to come to you so you can talk about it.

My mother flipped too. I waited for 6 months for babtisement, but then I just had to as I knew thsin Church is true. She wanted me to talk with a gret big anti who knwe it all as he had been a memmber, even a leader (not bishop not sure if he made it to Bishopric), so he knew better. He had also got a "inside look at the LDS and knwe things usual memberd were not told" So she and my ex wanted me to meet with him... but she was too busy so she gave me a book by him I read it and felt totally sic! That book was a lot of rubbish! I stil cant understadn why peopel so much easier believe such rubbish than misionaries or LDS members. There was nothing that was not told... but waht was told was not told in negative way.

A ood hint: After beeing babtised ask teh missionaries for dinner once a week so you get to meet them. I missed mine a lot but could not ask them for dinner as my DH was against the Church.

It is not that the members do not care it is because they all have their own families and things and especially the tasks in Church. I hope you get one soon so you get more in to the group and get friends. Be open, smile a lot show you are happy to be there and laugh at the hurt, never let the hurt worry you or push you down, after all we all are just people and do make mistakes.

I remember when I was investigateing and a lady drove me to teh church every Sunday in a small mini cooper with two kids of hers..... me and my girl.... adn when we got in the Church I just stod in the middle of the hall as she excujsed herself as she ahd to run for her tasks in primary... there I stod all aolne... I felt so lost and alone.... did not know waht to do ... just smiled and nodded the people passing me .... and after a few minutes found my way in the meetinghall and sat to wait. And here I am stil after many extremely hurtfull things I am still here. I am her because I KNOW that my Hevenly Father wants me here. This is His true Church and nothig can change that.

ps... best to leave the exmormons and other negatives in their misery or you may become a foultsearcher.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Maya

[Dravin]

I got the piercing in honor of a friend who died and was very offended when she mentioned I might want to take it out after I was baptized.

We've been counseled to avoid piercing beyond a single pair in the earlobes for woman (though I think it might be more accurate to say they aren't discouraged rather than to say they are 'approved'). You aren't required to remove the piercing but the expectation is to follow the counsel, the member probably assumed you were unaware of that counsel and was trying to be helpful to a potential new member and show her the ropes.

There is probably more to the story but if all she did was mention you might want to take it out after being baptized then getting offended seems an overreaction. That's just my take on it though, I wasn't there and so don't know the tone and choice of words.

I also got several disdainful looks at my feet for wearing flip flops. Needless to say, I was very offended. I haven't gone back to church since, because I didn't really want to associate with people who would be so judgmental. I don't think God cares about our outward appearances but the mormon church certainly seems to.

The missionaries should have mentioned concepts of best dress as a sign of respect. Just as one would not (normally) show up to a funeral in shorts and a tank top one wears their best on Sunday. So you should have been introduced to the idea prior to this, though flip-flops being (or not being) your best shoes is a cultural opinion I suppose. You've probably noticed by now that Mormons have some conservative values when it comes to what Sunday Best is. That said if you best shoes are your flip-flops go for it, at any rate even if they were your worst shoes and you intentionally wore them for that purpose disdainful looks aren't the way to go. Though I find that sometimes we misjudge the looks of others, another person's surprise can be taken as something else, heck maybe they just thought they were ugly. :)

What you need to realize though is that people are people. I'm not justifying their behavior but realize you will run across judgmental people, and you will also run into people with the best of intentions who aren't being judgmental (at least not in the negative connotative sense, all of us judge. For instance your statement that they were being judgmental is itself a judgement) but you are perceiving them that way.

Would I have to go through all of the discussions again in order to be baptized? What if I decide to come back at a later date; do I have to take every discussion once again?

Depends how long you are away, at some point you'd need to be reinterviewed and at some point they'd want to teach you the discussions again to make sure you remember everything or that you may have worked past any issues.

The people there keep saying that once I'm baptized, the missionaries will drop me, and that most of the other members will sort of forget about me.

What will happen is that once you are baptized you become the responsibility of the Ward (and the Ward becomes your responsibility as well to a degree) and the Missionaries will/should oversee your transition to becoming friends with and depending on the regular members in the area (ideally this would have started happening before baptism) instead of the highly transient missionaries.

As far as will the ward fellowship you? That depends on two factors.

1) The various members of the Ward

2) You (being as outgoing as possible and actively seeking and developing friendship with members helps a lot)

Realize there will be an adjustment period. There are doctrines and expectations (some with doctrinal and policy basis some which are strictly cultural) and jargon and opinions that come with associating with new people. Ultimate remember why exactly you are joining the Church, all the neat people and potlucks are kinda bonus in addition to the real reason.

Reading your post is sounds like all your concerns are social and you have no doctrinal concerns, is this a correct assessment? If so then you should believe in prayer and revelation, I recommend that in addition to any advice you might receive here that you make sure to spend time in prayer consulting with the Lord about your concerns. I'm not suggesting this to shoo you away from asking questions and opinions but because the Lord will understand your situation and what you are feeling better then any of us here will ever be able to.

P.S. You may find the following links of interest, they're from the Church's website concerning Modesty ( Modesty ) which they include more than just keeping enough clothes on and Body Piercings ( Body Piercing ). Don't forget to click on the headings under additional information and the like. Note, I'm linking to these for informational purposes not as some sort of call to repentance.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Dravin

[WindRiver]

Try this instead. Seek to know the counsel from the Lord through the Scriptures and His prophets, including the current one, do your best to follow all of it and don't worry what anyone else thinks or says, including the church members or your own family.

As for being offended by the actions of others - nobody makes us become offended. It is a choice we make. Learn not to take offense and your life will be much sweeter.

Reading this talk might be beneficial.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - And Nothing Shall Offend Them

[Just_A_Guy]

Just to supplement what Dravin said re missionaries:

The missionaries who taught/baptized you will probably keep in touch for as long as they're in the area, but Mormon missionaries seldom stay in one city for more than six months. To be quite honest, their replacements will probably be more interested in finding new prospective members, and you may get a bit lost in the shuffle where those new missionaries are concerned.

Hopefully the ward will treat you well, but ultimately a) your experience there will depend a lot on what you make of it, and b) baptism is primarily a covenant with God, and only secondarily with your ward. If you think the things you are learning will help you to form a better relationship with the Lord and cultivate your own divine nature, then go ahead with your baptism.

[LadyZephyr]

God loves you and the church will welcome you.

The church is true but sometimes the people in it are human and flawed, and make mistakes.

I'm sorry that you were made to feel judged and unwelcome.

My son was made to feel this way when he showed up in a blue dress shirt instead of a white one.

We all face these types of people now and then, I just have to remember that the church is perfect and the people are still trying to be.

They do have a point about respectful dress.

There will be new things for you to learn and new ways. It will take a little while before you feel you understand them all.

Perhaps you can just smile at the judgemental people and let them know that you are a new member and are happy to have the Gospel and are still learning the ropes. Maybe then they would be helpful instead of judgemental.

If they keep looking at your shoes, maybe you could ask them what people usually wear to meetings, and get them talking about it. They will soon see your sweet spirit and welcome you.

Sometimes we members are just stand-offish and shy with new people who look different than we do. We don't mean to be unwelcoming we just don't know who you are yet.

I'm sorry this happened and if I met you at church I would hug you and ask you to sit by me. Please give church another chance. Having the Gospel is worth it.

We are all brothers and sisters no matter how we dress.

[hordak]

The most important thing to remember is you join the church for you, and your relationship with God and the gospel.

Will some people judge you based on looks? yes it is sad but true. Some people follow council different then others and this one happens to be more visible. (Unlike others like, family planning, sabbath day activities or R rated movies). But just as Brother Jones wouldn't leave the church because he works the occasional Sunday, or sister Smith wouldn't leave to find a church more accepting of her action film collection, i wouldn't suggest you give up on the LDS because you look different. I don't think God cares what we look like either.

But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

It is scriptural.

As far as the missionaries dropping you, i think everyone has covered it. But to be perfectly honest with you as a "missionary church" you will find some who are not as sincere in their friendship as they are in fellowshipping. When my wife joined one of the big factors was the "friendship aspect" (we have a complex life full of moves, and starting all over again) When investigating the church there was one family in particular who had us over a couple times a week for bbq's, games , movies etc. After a few months of this and she was baptized they "dropped us" We later found out from some genuine friends we made in the ward that the family was just filling a calling. Their "job" was to welcome new members into the ward.

So what i'm saying is your desire to join the church should be based on the Gosple itself.

You should not join for the good stuff you find in the community, nor should you give up due to the bad stuff you find. Base your decision on the Gospel itself and you wont have to worry about what others do or don't do.

[Therauh]

What you did seems to be unintentional.I'm not baptised yet either btw.

I dealt with something similiar a few weeks ago because I allowed my 8 year old daughter to wear a dress that didn't measure up to the dress code.She seemed fine to me although I did a few times have to remind her to practise sitting like a lady a few times afterwards.Anyways later someone pulled me to the side and handed me a book to read about it.At first I was a little upset being talked to about it but I understood where they were coming from and eventually agreed.I can understand the need for modesty and it seems to me more of something a person does to help others who might be weaked by temptation.Which is the real concern in matters like this I think.

At the same time tho wouldn't it draw some looks if a person went to church just wearing a white robe?Yet that's what someone usually wore.I've yet to hear, read or see a picture of Jesus wearing a tie,slacks or a jacket.Frankly I think I'd rather wear a white robe.

Interestiingly, under Dress in the index.

1 Nephi 8:19-34

Don't get to worked up over it as others have said, Do keep hanging onto that rod tho and pushing forward.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Therauh

[skippy740]

Why go to a site called exmormon.org? Doesn't the name tell you everything? Of course they would say all of those things. They are biased.

Well, now she's here on LDS.net... aren't we biased too?

"To live with Saints in heaven is full of bliss and glory. To live with Saints on earth is quite a different story."

You aren't the first person to show up to church looking different than the "legacy members" that have been occupying the same pew for 5 generations.

Let the Spirit guide you in all your decisions.

Are we a cult? Sure are... to an extent. (I always have fun with these kinds of questions... just like with polygamy!)

What is a cult? It is a following of people who allow themselves to be "brainwashed" by a man to follow whatever they tell us.

We worship God the Father (who is a man) and Jesus Christ (who is also a man). We follow living Prophets, but do not worship them. We do not follow BLINDLY. We are students of the Living Word. We are always free to make our own choices and decisions.

D&C 9:7-9

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

Edited September 12, 2010 by skippy740

[Saldrin]

as far as a dress code it's the best you have, ask them to help out maybe if they want better

I see to remember a message once come back, come back now, come back as you are. but i may just be rambling sorry guys .

[Moksha]

Of course the missionaries only tell me good experiences people in the church have had, none of the negative ones. I wanted to see it from all perspectives.

All you have accomplished then is to take in the lopsided perspective on either end of Mormonism. Seek the middle as the Buddha would say.

[mrmarklin]

The Lord doesn't care about your piercings or flip flops. You can go to the temple even with piercings and tattoos, my friends.

Some of the people in the ward are judgemental and rude. Talk to the relief society president. I hope she will encourage you, and set those other people straight.

You don't need to take the discussions again to be baptized AFAIK. Of course after your baptism your relationship with the missionaries will change, as their main goal is to spent time with non members, and convert them. But I have seen many relationships where people have kept in touch with the missionaries all their lives, and developed very good friendships. Heck, I've met a lot of converts and missionaries that have MARRIED each other!!!

I'm not a dress code guy, and unless I'm doing something in the ward, I don't wear a tie.

[mrmarklin]

Back in the 50s the church had all the authorities and missionaries wear a white shirt and tie. This was appropriate dress for the day, and all IBM salesmen dressed that way too.

But times have changed. I don't even own a white shirt, and haven't worn a tie to work in over 10 years. I'm down to one suit (which I bought when my daughter was married last fall), and only wear a tie under duress as stated above. Now I do think that the authorities and missionaries should dress appropriate to their positions of authority, and that the rest of us should wear nice clothing to church, but that definition has changed a lot in my lifetime. I doubt if you were inappropriately dressed.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Come to my ward, I wear flip flops all the time. I can tell you, I am one that doesn't care what a person wears to church. It's unfortunate what happened to you because I think most would say they would be happy to have you there. At least realize Jesus is happy when you are there and He is looking at your heart, nothing else.

[Roseslipper]

as well

Good luck to you. enjoy your journey

[Dr T]

Why go to a site called exmormon.org? Doesn't the name tell you everything? Of course they would say all of those things. They are biased.

Pammy is correct, they are biased. The u are correct Q, the missionaries are biased too. Moksha is a great guy. I really like him. I don't think God wants people to be luke warm though so I'm not sure if what he hold you about seeking the middle. Good luck to you with what you decide to do.

[Roseslipper]

wow amazing this is the 4th time I am writing this dont know why it keeps erasing some one doesnt want me to write this i guess. I want you to know that last sunday i did an experiment I wore flip flops to church, cheap ones for 99cents and pink ones. No one even looked at my feet, no comment was made, no strange looks and the stake presdiency was there. It can be a cultural thing depending on where u live. Im in south Florida. and if anyone said anything at this time in my life I dont think Iwould ofcared. I go to church not to please others but to please myself and to grow closier to my Lord. and because I know its the right thing to do for me. Do I have to push myself to go to church? at times I do. am I always successful? No. but I dont give up.Now as far as piercings and tatos I personnal dont like them. and many people have them, they joined afterwards. We need to learn not to judge others we dont know the paths they have taken, the most important thing is that they found God, that they found truth. will u question the chruch? probably from time to time. Theres opposition in all things which is good, it brings growth. Will your missionaries leave u? Yes they will be transferr to other areas at some point, but new missionaries will come and get to know u, and u will meet wonderful people in your ward and you will have a ward family to get to know. Its all good stuff and exciting. When most people join the biggest mistake they make is thinking that allthese people are perfect. I wantto let u knowthey arenot. were all struggling with things, we are all learning and growing. Now why hang out with anti mormons? Would u hang out with drugs addicts if u werent one? no cause they will bring u down. Hanging out with friendsu have things in common with is more fun, and more uplifting. The best thing I ever did was join The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. Some mightsay ur brain washed. I would say I wish I was then I wouldnt of made so many mistakes. Let the Lord work in yourlife. But rememberSatan is strong too and he wants to keep u out of the LordsChurch. love a sister xo me.

[Traveler]

I thought to comment on a few things.

The word cult and culture have the same root meaning.

Regardless of what a person does, someone will criticize it.

When we establish a covenant with G-d we become a new person with a new heritage, new purpose, new hope and new outlook. Repentance is not feeling sorry for sins. Repentance is a change of mind and heart and a new outlook. We become children of G-d and a light unto the world. We become an example of a saint.

Sometimes we make life difficult for ourselves. The important things in life are not about how others treat us but how we treat others. It is not about how others see and react to us but how we see others and react to them. It is less important if others criticize our dress than if we criticize their heart and think less of them shutting them out and excommunicating them from our heart and our love.

All of us have things in our past that are not the best examples for others to follow but we also have something we can contribute. One of the greatest joys is when we determine that we will live each day giving back more than we get. Going to church is not so much to get something for ourselves but to renew our covenants and give something back out of respect and love for the great sacrifice Christ made for us as the example of how we ought to treat others. Attending church is an act of love and sacrifice.

BTW – sacrifice does not mean to give something up or to do without something. It means to make something sacred. Therefore the true meaning of sacrificing one’s life is the efforts and acts of making one’s life sacred. Who would not want to make a joyful sacrifice?

The Traveler