How can you support boxing/ultimate fighting


dash77
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Guys, this discussion is going NOWHERE.

Why?

Because, dash has no intent of learning about the sport. All he knows is "Blows to Key Organs are encouraged and advocated"... We can tell him 6 million times until we're blue that THAT IS NOT THE GOAL OF THE SPORT... but, because he thinks he's armed with AMA and CMA data (which, by the way, is old - drawn out when UFC rules were still in flux) he completely buys into it.

So, I think y'all are wasting your breath.

Nothing against dash. We see this prejudice all over the place. It's just human nature. How many times have you told a Protestant Christian until you are blue in the face that we, the LDS, are Christians, and they insist you are not because ... some religious organization says so or something.

How many times have you told some non-LDS folks until you are blue in the face that we, the LDS, are not racists yet they insist you are because the ACLU says so...

How many times have you told some non-LDS folks until you are blue in the face that we, the LDS, are not polygamists, but they refused to listen because it says it right there on Sister Wives or something?

How many times have you told some non-LDS that we are not polytheists but they don't listen because King Follet Discourse says we are?

It's all the same thing.

You cannot convince anybody who is not willing to see things from your side of the fence.

So, let this be a lesson in saying, "Go ahead, think what you will. We will just have to agree to disagree."

Now would be the perfect time to close the thread before it goes ad nauseum.

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Loud Mouth and Others:

Once upon a time I found hunting appalling. But after I listened to many LDS hunters who all stated similar things – which it was a spiritual experience – I began to question my past views. Some of these men told me they prayed before hunting as to not to cause undue pain to the animals and would pray right beside the animal after shooting them and outlined very spiritual experience. I know that some American Indian beliefs are similar – where they actually believe that animals purposely choose to travel where human hunters are and are purposely laying down their lives for the human hunters. I realized that I needed to see hunting from a different perspective. Today, even though I do not like hunting, I see it as a diverse group of people with diverse hunting motives. Some just like to kill, some do it to help with finances (it’s a cheaper way to have meat) and others have a profound spiritual experience with the actual animals. Some are motivated by fear of the last days and see hunting as preparedness.

I then made the connection that I eat meat and participate in the killing of animals that I found appalling. I also realized that some of the killing techniques in slaughter houses – that I was supporting though mindless meat purchasing -- were quite inhumane and more so than the hunters I appalled. So, I changed my entire meat purchasing behaviors and now primarily purchase meat at stores that participate in what I consider more humane slaughter practices and purchase milk from a company that states their cows are steroid and chemical free.

I came to these two conclusions by asking challenging questions.

The question I keep asking – not to condemn – but because it seems so very opposite to my views on boxing and UF fighting is below:

From a Christian perspective do you really think the Savior would encourage us to go to fights where people really do hurt each other, cheer and yell for someone to brutally hurt another person? Do you think the Savior would encourage this? Just read the last part of the link I provided (above) and can you honestly tell me the Savior would think creating this type of damage to another human – so that other people can have some sick degree of pleasure watch and cheering -- being would be OK?

Dravin is right, no one has to answer and you can choose to ignore me. That is OK. But silence also communicates. I just really want to know how fighting advocates who identify themselves as Chritains put the spectator side of UF and boxing together.

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Loud Mouth and Others:

From a Christian perspective do you really think the Savior would encourage us to go to fights where people really do hurt each other, cheer and yell for someone to brutally hurt another person? Do you think the Savior would encourage this? Just read the last part of the link I provided (above) and can you honestly tell me the Savior would think creating this type of damage to another human – so that other people can have some sick degree of pleasure watch and cheering -- being would be OK?

Check the bolded statement above. That's not what we do. I've tried to tell you this so many times I can't count them.

In any case, do you really think the Savior would not encourage you to learn to defend your life?

On another viewpoint, do you really think the Savior would encourage us to argue on the internet?

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The Savior did have a difference of opinion with the money changers at the Temple.

Anatess, I get the learning self defesne and I think I have outlined that my view has changed on this aspect related to boxing and UF. I get that some people are motivated to learning boxing and UF to learn self defesne. I have no quarrel with this motivation and can understand why this can be benefical.

What I am asking is how Christains justify atending boxing and UF fighting when there goal is not to learn self-defense. When the motivation is excitment and pleasure from watching people hurt others. Maybe I am wrong -- maybe most people who attend UF matches and the millions who watch on TV are all learning how to fight for self-defense purposes -- they all have geunine Christ-like values to learn self defense so that they can protect their families. I see none of this when I watch on TV -- but maybe I am wrong. The TV produces seem to focus on the villent hits, not the technique. The three I attend (for onservational reasons) I witnessed people partying and talkng about the bloody aspects when a nose was broken. I did not witness people talking about technique of fighting.

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The Savior did have a difference of opinion with the money changers at the Temple.

Anatess, I get the learning self defesne and I think I have outlined that my view has changed on this aspect related to boxing and UF. I get that some people are motivated to learning boxing and UF to learn self defesne. I have no quarrel with this motivation and can understand why this can be benefical.

What I am asking is how Christains justify atending boxing and UF fighting when there goal is not to learn self-defense. When the motivation is excitment and pleasure from watching people hurt others. Maybe I am wrong -- maybe most people who attend UF matches and the millions who watch on TV are all learning how to fight for self-defense purposes -- they all have geunine Christ-like values to learn self defense so that they can protect their families. I see none of this when I watch on TV -- but maybe I am wrong. The TV produces seem to focus on the villent hits, not the technique. The three I attend (for onservational reasons) I witnessed people partying and talkng about the bloody aspects when a nose was broken. I did not witness people talking about technique of fighting.

Ah, then you're talking to the wrong crowd here.

Look at all the stuff you see on TV... pick one. Roadrunner versus Wiley Coyote, for example. There are people who watch it for the comedy, and there are people who watch it for the saddistic pleasure. You can't all dump them in the same bucket and say Roadrunner versus Wiley Coyote do not have Christ-like values or whatever. Because, that is NOT the intent of that show. It is not Warner Bros responsibility how YOU interpret their show.

I have been to sooo many of these fights - my kids compete! I have not heard, not a single one, about any person partying and talking about the bloody aspect. EVERY SINGLE one of the people in these events critique techniques after EVERY SINGLE fight. So, whatever your impression of the sport is - like I said time and time again - it is not what the sport and all its die-hard followers are all about. You might want to consider hanging out with the "right" crowd...

Edited by anatess
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Faded:

Do you really think the American Medical Association (and these other 11 medical authorities) are really hypocrites?

Yes I absolutely believe they are hypocrites. If you allow sports that are MORE dangerous than MMA to continue on, but then single out MMA as this terrible thing, you're being a hypocrite. Football and rugby are more dangerous than MMA across the board.

Here's something else that I think is hypocritical: Governments make illicit drugs illegal because they're bad for people's health and can lead to extreme disability and premature death. Then they leave tobacco and alcohol completely legal when those two drugs are killing people by the millions. The thing is, either you ban all recreational drugs that are harmful or you do not. You either take a stand and stand by your position in all cases, or you sit down and shut up.

The underlying point that I'm calling hypocritical: Take a stand and apply it across the board. Don't single out one sport and call it a devil while you leave alone all others that are proven to do even more harm. You have to choose: If you're going to go after MMA, then you need to actively pursue bans on Rugby, Boxing and Football at the same time. Anything less is hypocrisy.

When there is trauma to the brain, the brain bleeds or the kidney bleed – this is why it is a blood sport, not a contact sport.

Aaron Rogers and Jay Cutler are just the most recent to confirm it: American Football must now be classified as a bloodsport. So is any sport out there where players frequently suffer concussions or internal injuries.

If intent to do harm is the only qualifier, football, boxing and rugby are doomed.

Second – and this question is not just for you, but is for all the people who advocate UFC and boxing who identify as a Christian – can you really see Jesus Christ endorsing this?

Based upon your criteria, what sports would the Savior endorse? Give me any popular professional sport you like and anyone with a brain in their head can make a compelling case for the Savior disapproving of it.

It seems like a very silly question actually. You don't have any idea what he would or would not approve of. As such, you're not making a compelling argument at all. Based upon you're theory of what Christ wouldn't approve of, there are a LOT of sports we should all immediately cease all support for. And yet BYU still has a football and rugby team. Those sports involve people hitting each other has hard as they can from start to finish. A game rarely goes by without an injury! Surely God must be very offended! How could sacred funds go towards supporting such barbarism? I call upon football fans everywhere to repent and cease supporting such a barbaric sport! :rolleyes:

The thing MMA has going for it is that it's real-world applicable usefulness is far, far greater than soccer, volleyball, baseball, football, rugby, hockey, and every other sport I can think of off the top of my head.

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It seems like a very silly question actually. You don't have any idea what he would or would not approve of. As such, you're not making a compelling argument at all. Based upon you're theory of what Christ wouldn't approve of, there are a LOT of sports we should all immediately cease all support for. And yet BYU still has a football and rugby team. Those sports involve people hitting each other has hard as they can from start to finish. A game rarely goes by without an injury! Surely God must be very offended! How could sacred funds go towards supporting such barbarism? I call upon football fans everywhere to repent and cease supporting such a barbaric sport! :rolleyes:

The thing MMA has going for it is that it's real-world applicable usefulness is far, far greater than soccer, volleyball, baseball, football, rugby, hockey, and every other sport I can think of off the top of my head.

We don't even have to go into the injuries... just look at the demeaning way women are portrayed in NFL! C'mon, women are nothing but EYE CANDY wrapped in skimpy clothing? REALLY? Oh no, don't bother calling them cheerleaders - because I've been to too many of these games and those skimpy clad NFL cheerleaders have NO BEARING whatsoever on the enthusiasm of the fan's cheers. Would the Savior really want to go watch that sport?

So yea, you must not be a Christian if you watch the NFL.

Amen.

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Dash, the underlying thing is this: You seem to be trying to take a grey area issue and turn it into a black and white "good vs evil" issue. At the end of the day, it's still a grey area no matter how much you wish it wasn't. If you don't like MMA then don't watch it. Same goes for any sport out there.

If MMA is something that we need to start actively opposing as Latter Day Saints, then I expect we'd have heard something from the General Authorities. If they do ever take a stand on the issue -- and believe me they won't -- then I promise I'll do my duty as a Latter Day Saint and support them in their opposition to MMA.

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Faded and others:

We have a difference of opinion then. I see boxing and UF fighting as very different from football or baseball or other contact sports. I see the difference in the fact that although vital organs can get hurt in these sports there are penalties for aiming for these body parts – it is not part of the contact. In boxing and UF fighting the goal is to hit these body parts so that they bleed. That is the distinction between contact sports and a blood sport. Yes, I am singling out UF fighting and boxing as a distinct sport that is very different than contact sports and I have marshaled very respectable organizations that also make this distinction. I do not see the AMA as hypocrites – rather I see many (but not all) boxing and UF fighting advocates as people who have jaded violent tendencies that disguise them in the language of self education. Anatess and others have caused me to change my thoughts somewhat that I can clearly see how someone can learn these skills for self-defense purposes. But I think the majority of the fan base is based on natural-man tendencies of pleasure that come from violence.

In regard to your question regarding the Saviors endorsement of sports, , I think a sport like soccer, baseball, or cricket would be endorsed by the Savior. I can outline many research studies that conclude that taking time out of a day for sport participation or sport watching improves health. The escapism watching a sport can create or the social aspects such as developing friendships are part of good mental health. I suspect this is why many of the General Authorities suggest getting involved in a hobby and why ward of recreation and social activities. Just like coin collecting can create friendships and respite from the stress of health – so can playing cricket or watching baseball. There are health textbooks that clearly underscore this. I think the Savior would endorse such healthy recreation activities and wholesome recreation is outlined in the Proclamation to the Family. The difference between these activates and UF fighting or boxing, again, is that there is not a purposeful attack n the vital organs of another child of God. Accidents happen and sometime a person may get upset and out of the rules (e.g., a helmet to helmet hit in football) – but these are not written into the policies/rules of the activity. The real world application of these other sports you have identified is good health, without the cost of hurting another person. Good health has been endorsed by the General Authorities. Running around the soccer field creates a healthier person.

Anatess and others:

Perhaps you have been to many of these UF fighting matches where you can’t recall a single person cheering for the violence. The three I have been too and the others I have watched on TV is the exact opposite. I witnessed first-hand an elbow to a nose that clearly broke it and the fans went wild. When I use to watch boxing this is what most fans wanted to see. I have a very difficult time thinking that fans do not cheer in the UF matches when another person gets knocked out – perhaps the places you have done too are just very unique.

I agree with you completely on the sexual objectification of women in all sports, be it football of UF fighting ring walkers.

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One more thought/question.

I have asked the question a couple of times related to if the Savior would endorse or think boxing and UF fighting to be OK – the watching of it. Thus far, only Faded has replied, and assuming I am understanding his reply, his answer is that because other sports create human injury and damage, thus its OK that UF and boxing does.

Is this the only response there can be given? It ok because others sports are violent?

Silence can speak volumes.

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I personally don't think Jesus cares about what sports I like. If he did, then I guess the expectations I had of the Savior are a little too high. :P

I recently started training Muay Thai. It is by far the best exercise i've ever done, i've been very athletic in the past and nothing has given me stamina like this. I'm not even very good yet. I can't imagine what great things it will do for my body if I continue. I also had a lot of anger issues from a marriage that went bad, and this has helped me work through it. It is a channel for me, I can just take out my issues on a Body Opponent Bag. I don't ever take out aggression on real humans during sparring or anything like that. Once i've gotten to them, i'm completely calm and collected because I left it all at the bag. At that point, it's about technique and learning how to keep one step ahead. I can honestly say that i've become far less violent since starting this program. It's taught me to become more level headed, because if you lose your cool and start raging on somebody chances are you will lose.

It's never been about "hurting" people for me, and nobody that i've ever trained with has been like "oh yeah, I learned martial arts so I could whip some tail". You enter MA training with an attitude like that and any respectable teacher will tell you to come back when you have grown up and lost the ego. : )

Anyway, just two cents from someone who is fairly new to martial arts.

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I haven't answered that question, because I think it's an invalid question. I don't see the Savior endorsing any particular activity, any more than I can see Him endorsing any particular brand of detergent, or little-league, or what have you.

There is a scripture saying we are to defend our families even unto bloodshed. God has taken sides and helped or hindered various people in violent conflicts, on both individual and collective levels. The D&C tells us we can be justified in dealing out harm or death "in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws, and relief afforded", should lesser means not be effecacious.

From what I can tell, the intents of our heart are a big part of how we're judged. Also from what I can tell, scripture and the church both advocate having our heart's compass pointed in the right direction. So, violent bloody entertainment is not good for us and should be avoided. Studying violence and blood as a way to carry out our stewardships may be appropriate in some situations.

LM

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Because you're supposed to seek it. I don't understand the question. We're also supposed to avoid violent entertainment.

It's almost like you don't understand the claim many of us are making. Again - here it is:

So, violent bloody entertainment is not good for us and should be avoided. Studying violence and blood as a way to carry out our stewardships may be appropriate in some situations.

Can you give us some indication that you're grasping the difference between being entertained by violence, and being edified by it?

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Loud mouth:

I am sorry, I am not understanding. Please explain. I see the difference between being edified and entertained by violence a spliting hairs -- not much of a difference. How do you see it as different.

And by the way, I love your name and icon on this website -- it always makes me smile!!!

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Fair enough. When I go to dictionary.com, I find:

Edify: to instruct or benefit, esp. morally or spiritually; uplift: religious paintings that edify the viewer.

Entertain: to hold the attention of pleasantly or agreeably; divert; amuse.

So, edification is a way to grow and be more than we were yesterday. Being edified brings us closer to God. Entertainment is a way to relax and recharge batteries, and not much else. Here in the church, we're explicitly conseled to avoid violence as entertainment. We're explicitly counseled to seek out edification and instruction.

Those of us who find value in MA, are talking about how it edifies us. Your main complaint about MA involves how people seek it out for entertainment. Does this help?

LM

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One more thought/question.

I have asked the question a couple of times related to if the Savior would endorse or think boxing and UF fighting to be OK – the watching of it. Thus far, only Faded has replied, and assuming I am understanding his reply, his answer is that because other sports create human injury and damage, thus its OK that UF and boxing does.

Is this the only response there can be given? It ok because others sports are violent?

Silence can speak volumes.

That wasn't my answer at all. I was disputing your underlying premise, "The UFC is evil because it injures people."

And you're making a lot of assumptions about the intent of MMA fighters by saying that "the intent is to make the other person bleed." Clearly you know nothing about the sport. You presume much too far when you just throw out a blanket statement, "MMA fighters are trying to severely injure and cripple each other."

In the end, my answer is that the Savior could care less what sports I support.

I point out that BYU endorses the very violent sports of Rugby and Football by having a team competing in both. The board of trustees -- AKA the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles -- appears to be just fine with it. I find it very interesting that violence based sports have a place of honor at BYU. I also think that if the Lord actually condemned MMA and wanted us to never watch it -- or even actively oppose it -- we SURELY would have heard something by now. Instead, Salt Lake City is a major hub for MMA training and competition alike. Latter Day Saints are deeply involved in the sport as both spectators and fighters.

One of the biggest reasons that you're going to struggle is that Joseph Smith himself was quite fond of what we refer today to as Catch Wrestling, one of the precursors to MMA.

I think you're going to have the same luck with this as you did with your story about hunting. You were appalled at the horrors and cruelty of hunting at one point, but changed your mind. In this case, you're probably never going to change your mind on the matter, but you're not making a compelling argument because you've got a lousy understanding of the sports you're seeking to demonize. What's worse, you're trying to use guilt-trip tactics and actively seeking to manipulate people into seeing things your way. Not a very good way to approach the matter.

You're contribution to the discussion seems to be, "I'm right, God knows that I'm right, and all of you are wrong." Makes for a lousy discussion like I've already said.

It still comes down to being a grey area issue. In other words, neither good nor evil. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Edited by Faded
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Loud Mouth:

I can see where you are coming from. I can understand the person who is involved in boxing or UF fighting to learn self-defense skills and connect it to self-reliance in protecting a family or oneself. In fact, I thought about taking boxing classes so I could learn how to throw a really good right in order to knock someone out (prior to joining the church I work as a bouncer in a bar and was in my fair share of fights – I always wanted to be able to throw a really good right that could knock a person out). If I take boxing, it would be to learn self-defense so I could learn how to throw a really good right and to get in better shape. However, I think I would learn enough skills from the training that I could protect myself – I do not think I would actually have to fight others boxer to develop better self-defense skills. In my mind, just knowing the skills is enough, if I am ever called on to protect myself. I might be wrong. But I can see how knowing one has self-defense skills can be edifying and linked to self-reliance. I can agree on that.

And I agree with you that we have been told over and over again to not support or participate in violent entertainment. I think the most of the millions of people who follow UF and boxing are motivate d by the violence – they are not there to learn skills. My worry is that I think there are many people who make the public claim to watch or be involved in boxing/UF as development of self-defense, but there private self enjoys watching violence. Perhaps I am wrong – only the Lord know our true motivation – but we are to turn off the natural man, not use cosmetic rationalize to satisfy violence. That is my worry – but may people like Faded and Tarnished are truly these unique people who can differentiate and watch UF just for technique and self defense education.

Do I make sense?

Faded:

We just have a fundamental difference regarding the difference of contact sport and a blood sport. I have marshaled twelve medical associations regarding the difference (boxing/UF purposefully try to hurt/bleed vital human organs and contact sports have rules against it) and you have referenced yourself as an authority on this subject. In my mind, this is why BYU allows football and does not have a boxing or UF fighting team – football and rugby are contact sports. It is probable a mute point now because I (and 12 medical associations) see the difference and you do not. At this point, there is probable no reason to continue to converse and I would only be open to further discussion if you can reference a credible medical/health source to support argument, rather than self-reference.

My understanding of agency is that the Lord through his Prophets outlines principles and then lets people govern themselves. Just because we have not heard specific mention of an activity does not mean it is or is not permitted – we make those decisions based on our honest understanding of them. I have never heard any General Authority state that it’s inappropriate to hit a person over the head with a hammer or 4x4 for fun – but I can extrapolate from gospel principles that this would go against LDS principles.

Also, in regard to if I do not like it, do not watch it, I would outline that our individual actions actually affect others. Social movements and the acceptance of new social norms is based on a collection individuals. I have stopped watching boxing and UF matches – but even when I do this it still affects me and other people. The general increase in violence in society – which I am affected by – is due to numerous factors (e.g., more violence in Hollywood movies, etc.) – one of which is societal acceptance of UF. Instead of suggesting I not watch it (which I have done) , a better suggestion would be for you to think about how your individual actions affect others.

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The general increase in violence in society – which I am affected by – is due to numerous factors (e.g., more violence in Hollywood movies, etc.) – one of which is societal acceptance of UF. Instead of suggesting I not watch it (which I have done) , a better suggestion would be for you to think about how your individual actions affect others.

Just commenting on the bolded line above. Dash, I have also mentioned several times before that MMA does not increase violence in society. It REDUCES violence. The more you promote MMA as a sport, the less "ignorant" a person becomes of what MMA is all about, the more they see the "edification" we've been yapping about, the better they are at understanding the discipline involved in rising up the ranks of MMA fighting, the more they would want to be in that discipline, the less violent your society becomes.

Okay Dash... Read this list of Illegal Moves that will cause a fighter penalty/disqualification and tell me again if you still believe that the intent of MMA is to "cause injury to vital organs" or whatever. You can read the rulebook here.

The following are fouls and will result in penalties if committed:

  • Butting with the head
  • Eye gouging of any kind
  • Biting or spitting at an opponent
  • Hair pulling
  • Fish hooking
  • Groin attacks of any kind
  • Intentionally placing a finger in any opponent's orifice
  • Downward pointing of elbow strikes
  • Small joint manipulation
  • Strikes to the spine or back of the head
  • Heel kicks to the kidney
  • Throat strikes of any kind
  • Clawing, pinching, twisting the flesh or grabbing the clavicle
  • Kicking the head of a grounded fighter
  • Kneeing the head of a grounded fighter
  • Stomping of a grounded fighter
  • The use of abusive language in fighting area
  • Any unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to opponent
  • Attacking an opponent on or during the break
  • Attacking an opponent who is under the referee's care at the time
  • Timidity (avoiding contact, or consistent dropping of mouthpiece, or faking an injury)
  • Interference from a mixed martial artists seconds
  • Throwing an opponent out of the fighting area
  • Flagrant disregard of the referee's instructions
  • Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his or her head or neck.
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In my mind, this is why BYU allows football and does not have a boxing or UF fighting team – football and rugby are contact sports.

Actually BYU does indeed have a MMA class and they do have their students fight each other. My brother has taken this course. When learning this style of fighting is a course that is provided by BYU and is being taught by a BYU employeed trainer then I don't think you can claim that the Church is going to be against it. If they are encouraging people to learn this form of fighting I don't see them condemning it anytime soon.

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Tarnished:

You need to provide me some more informtation regarding this class. Please provide some sort of link so I can understand it better. I have always not trusted someone who tells someone, who tells some, something.

I am pretty sure I am understanding what you want here, you want a link to the course, but that last sentence still boggles my mind as to how to understand it.

I went to the BYU website and found Martial Arts listed under the Exercise Science courses

2010 - 2011 Undergraduate Catalog | Exercise Science (ExSc) Courses

As I said in my previous post, my brother took the course, not me, so I only know what he described the course as. He said that they learned different styles of martial arts and then trained by sparring against each other and against punching bags and so forth. From what he described it sounded very much like what you would learn at a Mixed Martial Arts studio. If you click on the link for the Martial Arts course it doesn't give you much info about it, it just tells you when it is taught. I have pulled up a PDF version of the catalog and even that gives the same amount of info on the class. So either you accept the fact that what my brother told me is true, and that BYU has a Martial Arts course, or you don't. I have given you all the proof I can find on the subject. I do wish though that the catalog gave more information on the course, I know as a student it would be something I would have wanted to know.

Edit: Just in case you are having trouble finding it on the page it is listed as this: EXSC 141 : Martial Arts. (.5:0:2)(Credit Hours:Lecture Hours:Lab Hours)

Edited by Tarnished
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Tarnished:

Yes, the last sentence of my post is unclear. I was tired before I wrote it and did not proof read it. What I was trying to communicate is that I do not trust information that is based on what another person tells someone. I have heard many stories in which, someone, references a friend of a friend, who know someone who had some type of experience that validates the original speaker. Meaning, I do not trust the information that you provided.

Just because there is a martial arts class at BYU does not mean BYU supports UF fighting or boxing. This is an extremely far stretch. I might be wrong but I do not think BYU officially recognizes UF fighting or boxing. There might be some instructor who spends a day talking about these subjects (either for or against it), there might be a former student who participates in it, and there might be part of a class where people try some holds on others – but this is not an official endorsement, like you see with the BYU football team.

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Well then I guess you can believe what you are going to believe. It is not my fault that BYU does not give a more descriptive explaination of that course.

By the way, I am a bit curious why you constantly refer to Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) as UF, which I am guessing stands for Ultimate Fighting. In this sport Ultimate Fighting really only applies to the name of one organization, the Ultimate Fighting Championship, or UFC. The UFC is just one of quite a few organizations that holds championship matches where practioners of MMA can compete. There is also Strikeforce, Bellator Fighting Championships, WEC, XFC, King of the Cage, as well as many more. I am just curious about your semantics choice.

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Tarnished:

Just because there is a martial arts class at BYU does not mean BYU supports UF fighting or boxing. This is an extremely far stretch. I might be wrong but I do not think BYU officially recognizes UF fighting or boxing. There might be some instructor who spends a day talking about these subjects (either for or against it), there might be a former student who participates in it, and there might be part of a class where people try some holds on others – but this is not an official endorsement, like you see with the BYU football team.

As my wife already pointed out, there is no sport called "UF" or "Ultimate Fighting" which is what I assume you're trying to abbreviate. Ultimate Fighting Championship is the best know of all Mixed Martial Arts organizations, but the sport is Mixed Martial Arts, not "Ultimate Fighting."

The short list of MMA organizations: Adrenaline MMA, Affliction Entertainment, American Fight League, Art of War Fighting Championship, Art of War Undisputed Arena Fighting Championship, BAMMA, Bellator Fighting Championships, Bitetti Combat, BodogFight, Cage Combat Fighting Championships, Cage Fury Fighting Championships, Cage Rage Championships, Cage Warriors, Cage Wars, Combate Extremo, DEEP, DREAM, Elite Fighting Championship, Elite Xtreme Combat, Fight Pastor, Fighting Mixed Combative, Fighting Network Rings, Finnfight, HDNet Fights, K-1 Hero's, Impact Fighting Championships, International Fight League, Internation Fighting Championships, Ironheart Crown, It's Showtime, Jewels, Jungle Fighting Championship, King of the Cage, Konfrontacja Sztuk Walki, M-1 Global, Maximum Fighting Championship, Ohio Xtreme Fighting, Palace Fighting Championship, Palace Fighting Championship, Pancrase, Pride Fighting Championships, ProElite, Pancrase, Pride Fighting Championships, ProElite, Rage in the Cage, Respect Fighting Championships, Ring of Combat, Rumble on the Rock, SLAMM!! Events, San Francisco Cage Wars, Shark Fights, Shooto, Smackgirl, Spirit MC, Strikeforce, Supreme Warrior Championship, TKO Major League MMA, Team Takedown, The Fight Club, USA-MMA, Ultimate Challenge MMA, Ultimate Combat Experience, Ultimate Fighting Championship, Universal Combat Challenge, Universal Fighting Arts Organization, Universal Reality Combat Championship, Valkyrie (mixed martial arts), Valley Fight, Vyper Fight League, Warrior-1 MMA, World Alliance of Mixed Martial Arts, World Championship Fighting, World Extreme Cagefighting, World Fighting Alliance, World Vale Tudo Championship, World Victory Road (Sengoku), XFC, YAMMA Pit Fighting, ZST.

Off the top of my head I can see a half dozen organizations not on this list, so it's a very incomplete list. Many of these organizations are defunct -- sorta like leagues that went head to head trying to compete with the NFL back in the day. The UFC has come out on top thusfar, but nothing is certain for a sport that is this young. Shooto is the oldest of these leagues. Vale Tudo was even earlier, albeit not well organized. The UFC wasn't the originator of the sport by any stretch of the imagination, but popularized it in the USA.

What her brother told us about was exactly that: Mixed Martial Arts. The whole point is to learn a multitude of martial arts and seamlessly blend them together to maximize your effectiveness in a fight. Her brother knows what MMA is and he knows that's what he was learning. I could tell she was frustrated that the MMA class didn't have a decent description as that would have pretty much proven the point.

There is no such thing as a College MMA team. The sport is too young for that I expect, and it's never been very successful when run as a team competition sport. The IFL tried to run it that way, but that organization died out. Several others have tried and failed at doing the same thing.

College Boxing Teams are kind of a murky thing. The NCAA discontinued boxing as a competitive sport in 1960 after Charlie Mohr, a boxer on the University of Wisconsin–Madison team, collapsed with a brain hemorrhage and died one week later. The sport was picked up by the National Collegiate Boxing Association (NCBA) in 1976. Most schools do not want the risk that goes along with having an official boxing team. There are only 35 schools that participate in the NCBA, and the organization is dominated by military schools and academies.

BYU probably used to have a boxing team before 1960, but I can't find any information on it. Most searches pull up football, and that is probably due to the overwhelming popularity of football over any other college sport.

I did find mention of one at Ricks College (now known as BYU Idaho):

Public Relations Office*–*BYU–Idaho

"Ricks began affiliation with the ICAC in the fall of 1948, although not enough conference games had been scheduled for full-fledged membership. That would come soon enough. The football and basketball teams, coached by Lowell Biddulph, and the boxing team, coached by Gordon Dixon, had winning records. They were enthusiastic about the next year when they would have returning players with three years of experience."

Bear in mind, I'm already sold on the principal that boxing is a very dangerous sport -- more dangerous than any other sport I know of. But unlike boxing, MMA has a better injury/fatality track record than the majority of contact sports. Sure you might leave the sport of MMA or football with a nagging injury in your -- foot, knee, shoulder, wrist and even your head, but it is extremely uncommon for you to exit either sport a virtual human vegetable. (It's happened in football, but not as yet in MMA.) That cannot be said of boxing where years of accumulated brain damage is a major problem for retirees.

One reason there has been no deaths in the UFC can partly be credited to the UFC's president Dana White. When a fighter clearly demonstrates that continuing to fight is a danger to their health, he's been know to pull the plug on them. UFC legend Chuck Liddell got knocked out three times in a row, and much too easily. One punch KO's, the most recent was not even with the opponent's power hand. In the post-fight press conference, Dana said he'd never let Chuck fight in the UFC again for the sake of Chuck's health. If Chuck Liddell were to insist upon continuing to fight, Dana can't stop him from fighting elsewhere, but it's likely that Chuck gets the message and retires. Chuck used to have an iron chin. Accumulated damage leads the aging fighter to developing a glass jaw and continuing to fight thereafter is where a lot of boxers ended up as walking vegetables. You saw this with Muhammed Ali, and Steve Young was at serious risk of permanent brain damage had he continued to play football.

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