44 pct of gay, bisexual men with HIV don't know it

[Traveler]

One of the things we have learned through global warming is that there are people inside government and the corporate world that are willing to alter scientific findings to match agendas. Before anyone comes to a final decision concerning AIDS and HIV – Please consider the findings of Dr Duesberg Peter Duesberg on AIDS - Duesberg.com - HIV / AIDS research website for Peter H. Duesberg.

The Traveler

[Misshalfway]

Bytor: I am less concerned with how outsiders see us, and more concerned with how that view affects how we view ourselves. If a gay person is promiscuous because he believes he'll never be able to have a stable monogamous relationship (because that is what society tells him), I think that is sad. If society's accepted form of monogamy were available to us, then regardless of what someone said to that person, he could always say, "well, I can get married, so you're wrong; my relationship can mean something other than a 'feel-good-until-the-next-best-thing-comes-along' moment" His perception of himself then changes into something more positive.

And I don't know why we wouldn't want to promote that.

Or you can look at it this way: how many people have had to rely on the fact that they made a promise to their spouse in order to stay with that person? How many times, in a relationship, does that promise actually come into play? I think a lot. I think people on these forums have commented as to how they are working toward their marriage, through many trials, because they are married and want to stay married.

Gay people don't get that. They don't get society's backing to help them work things out and stay together. Now obviously society doesn't really care about you and your marriage, particulalry, but being a part of that greater institution gives you the perception that it does. Does that make sense?

In the church it is even more greatly evident. You view marriage the way you do because of how the church 'society' views it. It is stronger to you not because your love is any greater for the person you care about than someone married outside of the church could have, but because it is 'percieved' to be greater because of the sealing.

Am I just rambling now?

Thanks for your comments here. I appreciate what you are saying. Just one question.

Does the GLBTQ community value monogamy?

IF gay marriage becomes legal, which I think it will eventually, would promiscuity among Queer populations decrease? I guess I am not sure about that because monogamy is not dependent upon a marriage license. It's dictated by character. Do you see my point? I guess I think people want the rights that marriage brings, not necessarily the institution of monogamy.

But I see your point too. If heteros didn't have marriage as an institution, I don't know how many would be monogamous on their own.

[MarginOfError]

Thanks for your comments here. I appreciate what you are saying. Just one question.

Does the GLBTQ community value monogamy?

IF gay marriage becomes legal, which I think it will eventually, would promiscuity among Queer populations decrease? I guess I am not sure about that because monogamy is not dependent upon a marriage license. It's dictated by character. Do you see my point? I guess I think people want the rights that marriage brings, not necessarily the institution of monogamy.

But I see your point too. If heteros didn't have marriage as an institution, I don't know how many would be monogamous on their own.

As I've described before, I think a large part of it is developed by culture. So much of homosexual activity was done underground and anonymously for so long that it's going to take some time to change the culture that developed. But there has been significant changes toward monogamy in the past 20 years.

[Elgama]

Not to mention if we are going to use it to make any conclusions, men should all be celebate and women should all be lesbians.

Most gay men I know are monogamous. More likely to be so than heterosexual men. One of the most outspoken gay men on UK TV and possibly US TV as well has been with his partner for sixteen years, and is working to show there isn't a lot of difference. between a gay couple and a straight one.

YouTube - ReelGay John Barrowman Cute Moment

I am not sure how this relationship at it's core is much different to mine with my husband.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Elgama

[Soulsearcher]

Thanks for your comments here. I appreciate what you are saying. Just one question.

Does the GLBTQ community value monogamy?

IF gay marriage becomes legal, which I think it will eventually, would promiscuity among Queer populations decrease? I guess I am not sure about that because monogamy is not dependent upon a marriage license. It's dictated by character. Do you see my point? I guess I think people want the rights that marriage brings, not necessarily the institution of monogamy.

But I see your point too. If heteros didn't have marriage as an institution, I don't know how many would be monogamous on their own.

I guess i can wonder does the straight community value it monogamy? Out side of those who believe it's immoral due to religious limitations, how many straight people really value monogamy? Marriage has been legal for them since the start and yet there's a large % of the population both married and single that don't value monogamy. I think people tend to forget in most cases it's not orientation but a certain moral compass that makes someone value monogamy. It's always been very important to me, but i'll be honest among straight more than gay i've been mocked for it.

[Misshalfway]

I guess i can wonder does the straight community value it monogamy? Out side of those who believe it's immoral due to religious limitations, how many straight people really value monogamy? Marriage has been legal for them since the start and yet there's a large % of the population both married and single that don't value monogamy. I think people tend to forget in most cases it's not orientation but a certain moral compass that makes someone value monogamy. It's always been very important to me, but i'll be honest among straight more than gay i've been mocked for it.

Thanks. You are helping make my point. I don't think that the institution of marriage discourages promiscuity not matter what the sexual orientation is. I was trying to make that point, although I don't think I did it very well.

But I do agree with GaySaint in that I think it would help with commitment issues and relational obligations.

[Soulsearcher]

Thanks. You are helping make my point. I don't think that the institution of marriage discourages promiscuity not matter what the sexual orientation is. I was trying to make that point, although I don't think I did it very well.

But I do agree with GaySaint in that I think it would help with commitment issues and relational obligations.

It would help remove some of the need to hide and be underground. It's one of the things that straight people really never understand through most of their discussions on homosexual topics. As much as people think so much has changed and we are all out and in your face about our sexuality, i honestly think the majority is still very quiet about who we are. WE still feel the need to hide out of fear. There are still cases of gays being beaten for just being gay. Cases of families disowning and throwing out gay children. There is a huge need for some to remain as secretive as possible because we are to scared to have a relationship with just one person, as that becomes much harder to hide and the feeling of safety disappears. Took 30 years and talking marriage with 3 girls before i could even admit to myself certain things never mind even try to ask a guy out, now it's come to the point I'm leaving the only city i've ever known so i can maybe try to find a steady relationship and still not have to worry about people finding out about me. If marriage and with it a certain amount of willingness to understand were more available, would me and others be quite so scared? Would we find so many Gay men marrying women out of fear and then destroying families later when the guy figures out that he can't live a lie any longer? It's easy for so many to dismiss because it's not their reality, so instead of taking the facts from the people living it, they tend to say they know better than us and still pass judgment. No one is going to change anything that way.

[Misshalfway]

It would help remove some of the need to hide and be underground. It's one of the things that straight people really never understand through most of their discussions on homosexual topics. As much as people think so much has changed and we are all out and in your face about our sexuality, i honestly think the majority is still very quiet about who we are. WE still feel the need to hide out of fear. There are still cases of gays being beaten for just being gay. Cases of families disowning and throwing out gay children. There is a huge need for some to remain as secretive as possible because we are to scared to have a relationship with just one person, as that becomes much harder to hide and the feeling of safety disappears. Took 30 years and talking marriage with 3 girls before i could even admit to myself certain things never mind even try to ask a guy out, now it's come to the point I'm leaving the only city i've ever known so i can maybe try to find a steady relationship and still not have to worry about people finding out about me. If marriage and with it a certain amount of willingness to understand were more available, would me and others be quite so scared? Would we find so many Gay men marrying women out of fear and then destroying families later when the guy figures out that he can't live a lie any longer? It's easy for so many to dismiss because it's not their reality, so instead of taking the facts from the people living it, they tend to say they know better than us and still pass judgment. No one is going to change anything that way.

I am sorry its been so hard. I can see those issues and empathize with the fear. I know that the overt persecution and the private family struggles are still prevalent.

And I think you are right. It's easy for other to dismiss something that isn't their reality. That has happened to me in other areas. And you are right. Many do say they know better and pass awful judgments.

I suppose its the challenge, maybe for all of us inside our respective contexts, to move towards authenticity and congruency even when we don't have societies blessing. Sometimes it is VERY hard to do that. Hopefully, we can, at the very least, start to forge a world where people can differ philosophically without the fear of physical harm or institutional persecution. I feel more tolerance for the issues that happen on the family front, but I won't dialogue about that now.

[bytor2112]

Study Finds More Gay Characters on Network TV