doubts and questions about the church

[brodylds]

Hello everyone,

I was born into the church and have always been active but have always had lot of questions. I have served a mission and am currently in college. When I was 15 I was shocked when I discovered anti Mormon material on the internet for the first time while writing a talk. Since then I have continued to be very curious about church history and just about arguments against the church in general.

I have recieved spiritual confirmations of the truth and validty of the church, but many of these things still trouble me. I often times feel confused, decieved, and it seems like no matter how hard I try I cannot get rid of these feelings and maintain a more solid testimony of things like the book of mormon and joseph smith. I believe in them and as I said have received spiritualy confirmations of their truths but I cant seem to permanently get over a these doubts. I am also uncomfortable to discuss this with my family, close friends, or bishop.

Does anyone feel similar? I just feel a little ashamed especially in testimony meetings and I wish I could have a little more faith.

thanks!

[Maya]

Only way to get more faith si to do something= get up on testimony meetings and testify! Start with testifying about waht you know, about love of God and Jesus Christ.

I was a lot older when i confronted the antistuff ... but to me the accusitions seem so out of place that they sound ridicilous.

I feel that life is in many ways a gamble... and I gamble my all on the LDS Church. Well think of it this way IF LDS Church is not true then WHAT is? If the main Christinas would be right... which they aint... we would meet a trinity God... hmm. What would we do for ever... serve the God usually by sang, incense aso or they dont have a clue. What would be our purpose forever ... keep the incense burning? Song in the air? Anyway IF I would be wrong... the God is so nice He will forgive me anyway if I approve Jesus Christ as my savior... which I already do. And if someone thinks I go to hell as I am a mormon.. so what .. I sure decerve it then, and I wont be burning incense and singing for Him.

So I gamble my life on this and I will winn, as the other possibilities are pretty ridicilous.

What about Joseph Smith then? And the BoM? Think clarely, like I said above the other possibilities are pretty ridicilous. Would God have made us just to kind of be His toys? Does he really need someone to worship Him the way all of us would do after this life? There is just no sence in it. Joseph Smith brought back facts that have been lost in greedynes of men. Religion as a whole makes sence when you think of whys.

Mormons Book has to be a real thing as the accusitions against it sound as if pulled out of a hat! Suddenly, according to anties, has Spoulding written 2 manuscripts as one was found with no similaryty to the BoM, even though it was claimed to have a lot similaritiesa and beeing a lot alike. Ethan Smiths book again is just a boog and aquires a hemispheric look on te BoM, which is not agreed by scolars. Also why woudl JS point out a book he would have "forgered" from.

If you have a problem go to : Main Page - FAIRMormon and you will get an a scolastic answer that a usual person also can understand. You can also ask a spesific question and you will get an answer. Go to Contacting FAIR

And if you say/think ... yes ... but those are apologister, members they would not give a partial answer they are mormons them selves.... uh... WHO would have the right answer then, anties? exmormons? I dont think so. ANY scolastic is bound to a certain way of thinking about religion. To some it is just rubbish what ever it is, not worth their time ... there is no God... to some it is a certain religion and deep inside they feel they have to protect their religion, fathersland and old customs, some just dont have the interest to digg so deep that they would understand... and IF they do... they become mormons as they notice that this is the only true Church of Jesus Christ. LDS scolars know their religion, they use time to digg deep that other scolars only srape on the surface and most of all they are honest. FAIR WIKIpedia is well put together adn it has the facts from BOTH sites well written there and it leaves to everyone to think adn find out for themselves.

Dont let what you dont know destroy what you already know! And dont forget what kind of person Joseph Smith fex was has NOTHING to do about the trutfulness of the LDS Church or gospel.

[rameumptom]

We all have doubts on some things. For me,the problem exists because people have the wrong idea about prophets being perfect. LDS historian Davis Bitton gave a great talk at FAIR conference a few years ago, entitled, "I don't have a testimony of the history of the Church."

I Don't Have a Testimony of the History of the Church

It should put some things into perspective for you. I've studied everything for over 30 years, and so am very clear on the issues that may bug you. Don't focus on those things. Focus on your testimony of the things you know are true.

It is as in the days of Moses, when many challenged him because they perceived his weaknesses (or what they thought were his weaknesses). These even included his brother and sister, Aaron and Miriam. While Moses made mistakes and sinned, he was still the prophet of God.

That is the key point we need to consider in all things.

[jayanna]

When I was a newly new member, I was on the internet one night, and ran into an anti site. At first, I didn't know what it was...I was looking for 'you might be a mormon if' jokes. Then I saw a joke about the prophet, it was kinda ugly, so I looked at what site I was on. I read some things I wish I hadn't. I questioned my testimony. My amazing testimony that I had changed my whole life for, and the lives of my kids for....

Well, that just wouldn't do. I got on my knees immediately and prayed. I told Heavenly Father what I had done and what I needed to know. Once again, he assured me of the truth, he instructed me to continue to read my scriptures and I did. I felt better almost immediately.

Believe in the Savior, believe in a church that teaches about him.

There was a missionary assigned to this area, not long ago. He was born and raised in the church. He had started to read some of the anit stuff, in spite of me telling him not to. He was starting to believe it, I am so glad that he felt comfortable talking to me.

He said one day, "Sis.___________, I read that our church does not teach one single primary song about Jesus, not one. And you know what, that's true, there aren't any."

I looked him right in the eye...and sang "I'm trying to be like Jesus, " Sing it to yourself right now. In your head, whatever, just do it. I'll try to put a link here for the words LDS Church Music Interactive Music Player

Then, we both knew that what he had been reading was junk. Just a bunch of very convincing junk. That book had taken something so untrue and convinced him, utterly convinced him of a complete lie. To the point that his memory was not even able to grasp onto a primary song he had sung a thousand times.

What is more like Him, a church that helps you be more like him, or a group of people pointing their finger into the foggy past, looking for instances and recordings that can be skewed as questionable actions of people who are not here to defend themselves?

I wasn't around back then, I have no idea why they did some of the things they did, or wrote some of the things they wrote. I don't know who did what.

But I'm here, right now, and I'm trying to be like Christ. I am doing what He tells me to do. I tell them, get thee behind me, I'm too busy for this, I'm on my way to the temple! I'm helping others, I'm going to be like Christ!

[NeuroTypical]

Testimonies survive when you know two things:

1- What you believe in

2- Why you believe in it

Unfortunately, many of us are raised with a sort of 'cultural awareness' of how people or things worked in the past, or work today, and it's not true. We're brought up being taught a lot of things about the church, from sources both inside and outside the church. Some of this stuff is, for lack of a better word, complete hooey. We think we know it, but in reality, we've just assumed it without a good reason to. It doesn't mean that God isn't God, or that Joseph Smith and the BoM aren't what they claim to be - but it does mean that a person can get a notion into their head about how things worked. And when it turns out things worked very differently, it causes problems.

My advice - for every single bit of troubling fact you hear about the church or those in it, follow this path:

1. Clearly state what it is that gives you trouble.

2. Ask yourself "Why is this giving me trouble?" Put the answer in words - something like "If X is true, then Joseph Smith must be a false prophet."

3. As yourself why you believe the answer to #2. Find a source for your belief. Why does X mean Joseph is a false prophet? Do you find it in the Bible? BoM? Scripture? General Conference talk? Sunday School Handbook? Or, do you find it in just the stuff that got poured into your head as you grew up, that really doesn't have a sound basis? In other words, you didn't know what you knew. And now you think you know it, you realize you don't know why you know it. As you complete this step, you might very well learn for the first time what actually makes a prophet, and you might learn some of the skeletons in the closet of the old testament prophets (like drunkenness and whoremongering and selling prophetic gifts for money and even speaking out against God - and yet people who did this were still used by God as His chosen mouthpiece.)

4. If you don't know why you know something, then congratulations, you've just discovered that you never knew it in the first place. You just sort of assumed it was true, and now it turns out it probably isn't.

5. Choose. Will you continue to hold on to stuff you assumed was true, or will you discard it and replace it with stuff that you actually find a basis for in the truth claims of the church?

If you have a lot of questions and troubling things, it can take a lot of time. Years even. But I suggest you take these things one at a time, and see what happens.

LM

(Oh, I guess I should add #6 - if you come across proof that Joseph was a false prophet, or the BoM isn't what it claims to be - please send me a message. I've been looking for over a decade, and haven't found any of it yet.)

[LDSVALLEY]

As an adult convert to the church I can understand your problem. One downside of being raised LDS is you are not well equiped to understand the differences in motivation when faced with the anti mormon stuff and it is easy for dought to arrise. You are condtioned to think and believe in a set of beliefs. Understand I don't mean brainwashed or forced simply the way any person is raised creates a condition. I see it in our children who have been raised in the Gospel and I rejoice in it compared to my upbringing in the "real" world.

when people first learned my wife and I were looking into the LDS church we were bombarded with anti mormon stuff from every side, family, friends, strangers it was amazing. Instead of being concerned about it I was greatful for it, and in truth it gave me a source for humor for many years.

One thing many people neglect to do is to understand the motivation behind someone doing something. An Insurance salesman is not going to direct you to the perfect insurance plan for your situation, they are going to direct you to the best insurance plan for your situation that thier company sells. Nothing wrong with that, it is thier job and they need to support a family. But if you don't keep in mind the salesman's motivation then your judgement on what is best for your needs can become clouded.

To use a business term you have to do a cost\benefit annalizes (spelling error). In other words what do they get out of the effort they have to put in. I assure you that no one continues with something when they get less out of it then they put in.

I chatted with one antimormon person several times, we politly discussed our different points of view. After a few rounds of this I was struck by a thought over his username trappedinmormonhell. I asked him since he had gotten his name removed from the church many years before, since he stated he had never believed the false doctrine the church taught then why was his username trappedinmormonhell. Since he was free from the church why wasn't it freefrommormonhell. I said the only reason I could see him using trapped was if he really did still believe the Gosple because hell is where those who have found the truth and reject it will go.

I never heard from him again.

Think about this hundreds of people spend hundreds of hours every week for years on end to put out antimormon stuff. They study our texts, our manuals, our beliefs, conference talks etc. Many spend more time on scripture study of the Book of Mormon then most members. They surround themselves and spend much of the short time we have on Earth in something they don't beleive in or find distastful.

Why? what is the motivation. Most don't run LDS down to promote a different religion. About half claim to not believe in a God at all. So what do they get out of it for all the effort they must put into it? Why was that one person still trapped in mormonhell after over a decade of freedom? What is the benefit?

A dog or other animal who has been hurt by a person will assume the next person will do the same and in defence will often attack first. I have found one major reason people leave the church is over a real or imagined hurt. With animals it is instict with humans it can last longer we justify our actions by turning them back on the person or group that hurt us. One general comment can be turned into an atatck because of how each of us filters what we hear a bit different. Soon it builds to the point the person stops attending, when the church doesn't respond to that sign immediatly then the church itself is pulled into the knot of anger building. Then often God himself. people justify thier actions by being the injured party and turning things around so the Church is at fault. When that knot of anger becomes familiar it is then fed by people spending a lifetime continuing to attack the church out of revenge for the 'wrongs' done to them.

Other people go the same path because an aspect of the Gospel or direction from a Leader goes against the grain of personal belief or what they want to hold onto. But the end result is the same.

Don't try and pit your testimony against thier anger. The benefit over the cost they get is to avoid putting the truth where it belongs, to hold onto something that gives them a feeling of power and control. Most open to that attacks are multi generational LDS who grew up in many ways sheltered from the harsh enviorment outside the Gospel. With the fertile soil of the gospel your roots have spread wide but not deep. Those of us grown in rockier soil don't have the far spread roots of the gospel but what we have gotten we have had to go deep to anchor us in it. We are better equiped to deal with many of the harsh winds of opposition then many in fertile soil.

When you come up to anti Mormon stuff don't waste your time on figuring out the truth or lack thereof. Ask yourself first what is the motivation behind thier cost in presenting it. Second what is the benefit vs the cost of your studying the information? Remeber as much as they would not keep spending thier life posting this stuff you would not spend so much of your energy on it without the benefit to you being higher then the cost to your testimony and heritage.

I never had any intention of joining any church let alone LDS. When I was twenty I would have laughed in your face if you had told me I would be LDS. I had my own belief in God and said I would never sway from that stance. I've been a member for over a decade and still never changed my belief that I developed on my own when I was 13 years old and used logic to make sense of the Lords love.

For me the cost\benefit was clear. The formula was only in my favor if I joined the church so I have. And while I have had issues over the years with members or leaders from time to time the Logic has always continued to be that the church is true.

And the reason I was grateful for all the anti stuff we got when we first begain the journey? It is logical to believe that the only reason people would spend so much time spreading stuff about the church and not simply ignore it was if it was true and Satan was working extra hard to discredit it. No one in the church ever told me this the thing was simply logic.

[MaMeeshkaMow]

I was at the Hill Cumorah Pageant in July and was shocked to see all these anti-Mormon people with signs and megaphones shouting crazy things to all of us. The more I thought about it, the more I realized, hey, there were tons of anti-mormon stuff in Joseph Smith's day (people against him) so that these modern anti people are like "fulfilling" the tour! They are doing what was done in the old days.

It's just mind boggling that they just can't leave the church alone. If they don't like it, why don't they just move on?

[curtishouse]

Hello everyone,

I was born into the church and have always been active but have always had lot of questions. I have served a mission and am currently in college. When I was 15 I was shocked when I discovered anti Mormon material on the internet for the first time while writing a talk. Since then I have continued to be very curious about church history and just about arguments against the church in general.

I have recieved spiritual confirmations of the truth and validty of the church, but many of these things still trouble me. I often times feel confused, decieved, and it seems like no matter how hard I try I cannot get rid of these feelings and maintain a more solid testimony of things like the book of mormon and joseph smith. I believe in them and as I said have received spiritualy confirmations of their truths but I cant seem to permanently get over a these doubts. I am also uncomfortable to discuss this with my family, close friends, or bishop.

Does anyone feel similar? I just feel a little ashamed especially in testimony meetings and I wish I could have a little more faith.

thanks!

Faith is always a struggle especially when there are so many haters out there. I have searched through all sects of Christianity from the Catholic church to the Baptist to non-denominational and all areas in between. No church has the fullness of the Gospel like the LDS church.

When you have doubts, there is nothing to worry about. Just do not let the doubts consume you. It all comes down to this. Either the Book of Mormon is true and the LDS church is the restored faith of Jesus Christ or it isn't true and were following a false gospel. I suggest for you to read the Book of Mormon daily. It's amazing how doubts creep in when you don't read the Word of God on a daily basis. Read, pray, make sure you have removed all sin from your life and pray and read some more :) Your faith will be built up. I can guarantee that from personal experience.

[tubaloth]

Does the church have all the answers, probably not! The point is what your foundation is on. Like Helaman 5:12 says you need to have a good foundation so when Satan throws his "firey darts" they well miss you.

You do realize Satan is also trying to confuse you and make it seem like things not make sense. This happens to everybody. But when I know the Church is true, I know it has been restored, and I know the Book of Mormon is true. I know the foundation of my testimony. So other lighter stuff doesn't effect me.

Even more you have to live the gospel. In a way you have prove to yourself that this is the correct path! Once you do this, then satan can't get you off of it (he can try) but you then know your path is the correct one, because you have seen what it does in your life!

[Therauh]

Posted on the wrong thread...sorry

Edited October 5, 2010 by Therauh
Wrong thread