I need opinions/advice

[ConquestT4]

First of all a brief introduction would seem fitting. I've was born into the church and acquired my own strong testimony at about 13 or 14. I have been surfing these forums for a while and I have been impressed at the comments and wisdom that some people have.

I post now because I am seeking answers and I am going through a repentance process. Heres my story:

I didn't really have any problems with the law of chastity until at age 18 when by "accident" I slipped into the sin of masturbation. I was in my bed adjacent to my best friend and roommate's bed when it happened. I say that it happened by accident because even though I had the bad habit of entertaining impure thoughts I had no conscious intentions of defiling myself. I let my mind wander to far and though I was not moving my hand it was where it should not have been. My thoughts were intense enough and the presence of my hand was enough to trigger an ejaculation. Honestly when it happened it totaly took me by the surprise. It was the first time I was ever conscious during one and as soon as it was over I had think for a second about what had happened. I was shocked as I thought about it and immediately I began to feel guilt and concern. The next day I woke up thinking about what happened and the thought was just killing me. I was surprised by the intensity of emotions I felt yet I was sure I would never do it again. The thought of having to discuss it with my bishop greatly frightened me. That was just not......me. Long story short I fell several time to temptation only receiving temporary gratification followed by misery and regret. I lost control and started to become a bit depressed. I couldn't stop. It wasn't happening very frequently but I was going crazy struggling with the issue. I thought I could just quit and make it go away.

I did stop for a while. A month maybe. Then I would fall. Then slowly degrading material slipped into my life through the internet. I still couldn't control my thoughts and I started seeking a little more stimulation. I started to give up and give in to the sin. I thought..."while Im here I might as well explore..."

I would be fine for a week or two then I would fall. It was a cycle. I was about 19 then and I was preparing for a mission. I knew I was going to go. As awful as it sounds looking back on it I got my call and entered the temple. I had quit for a month or so and convinced myself I could stop for good. I was good for a few months but early in my mission I had one or two occurrences when I slipped.

I couldn't take it any more so I talked to my mission president in my first interview. I was soooo scared I would get sent home but I convinced myself the guilt was worse. I was thrilled when I found out that I wouldn't be sent home and I was good for about 3 months or so then I slipped up again! I was shocked at what I was doing. It didn't make any sense yet I knew I had to take responsibility.

Long story short I fought it off and on my entire mission (it really only happened maybe 8 or 9 times total in 2 years but I knew that it was still an abominable sin). By the end of my mission I thought I had conquered it and had high hopes. I got my recommend back.

I came home and about a month later I had fallen again. I did not slip back into porn but I was so discouraged and succumbed to my addiction. I got myself to talk to my bishop and he helped me a ton. I fought off the sin again, I was partaking of the sacrament, I went to the temple again, etc. My bishop was impressed at how quickly I changed and I thought I had for good. I was so determined and once again I could feel happy and more confident. Yet once again I slipped. That time it really got me down and I couldn't get myself to tell my bishop I had fallen AGAIN! I started viewing some light pornography (in about 3 occurrences). I once again prepared to talk to the bishop but this time I would be talking to the bishop of my student ward. I had AGAIN fought off the habit for about a month and a half. I confessed my repeated sin and expressed my true desire to change. He seemed pretty upset with me but he told me I could be clean again and we set that goal. I was in good spirits and motivated. He said I could partake of the sacrament and he said that I could go to the temple if I felt ok with that. He let me accept my calling and they told me I would be sustained next Sunday. I was happy. I didn't go to the temple but Sunday I did partake of the sacrament. However, I was not sustained and when I asked the bishop why my name was not called he took me aside and looked at me and said that we were going to wait till this issue had passed. I was a bit surprised but I was ok with it. (my bishop at my home ward let me have a calling anyways...about a week after I had had an issue)

This was two Sundays ago. I'm now 22 and its been about 2 months. Today was strange though. I didn't have any issues this past week but today I met with the bishop so we could talk about my progress. I told him I had not done anything and we had a normal meeting. At the end he was about to let me go but concerned I asked him again like I did when I confessed. "Can I still partake of the Sacrament?" "Can I go to the temple?" and I asked him when I would be able to accept my calling. He told me it would be best if I DID NOT partake of the Sacrament this next Sunday and that I shouldn't go to the temple yet (he didn't ask for my recommend though). The opposite of what he had told me the last time when I confessed. He said that they had already assigned the calling to someone else because they just needed to get it done...

I left the interview discouraged and sad but still very determined to resolve the issue. Im just frustrated that I had been NOT partaking of the Sacrament (for me its a big deal and it makes me uptight knowing that my roommates are there watching) but I did it anyways. I didn't partake. I confessed, he said I could partake, last Sunday I partook, and now I am not going to partake this Sunday because my bishop told me not to. With my other bishop he let me start partaking again after about 2 weeks of not having an issue. Its now been 2 months for me and yet I find myself here. I am committed and determined and want it gone once and for all. I am dating a wonderful girl and trying to do what is right. I read, I pray, serve, say my prayers, treat others well, etc.

So here I am now. A bit wiser but still kinda confused at what just happened. I regret repeating the sin and my goal is sincere repentance. My regards to anyone who has struggled with the issue. I feel your pain and if you are struggling I encourage you to never give up. Feel free to PM me. I've learned a lot.

Now whether or not you read this all thanks anyways. I just needed to get this out and journalize it. However I do hope for your opinions, comments, support, advice, etc.

ps. I'm not trying to say the bishop is wrong. I'm just surprised and confused. I think its weird to not take the sacrament one Sunday, take it another Sunday, and NOT take it again the next. I'm self conscious and Ill do it but its weird knowing my roommates/other members will be noticing.

[Suzie]

First of all brother, I want to say I am sorry for the struggles you are going through and I hope the Lord may give you the strength you need to overcome this addiction once and for all. I don't think it will be easy but rest assured, it IS possible. I will keep you in my prayers.

Having said that, I have a few comments about your post. Number one, every Bishop is entitled to revelation for the people of his own ward. So maybe another Bishop may have a different approach to your problem while this new Bishop has a completely different one.

I noticed you emphasized how many times you have committed this sin but really isn't a matter of how many times you masturbated or how many times you watched porn...the fact of the matter that just by entertaining your thoughts, you already defiled yourself. There is not a checklist that states that if you pass 'x" number of times you masturbate there is no point of no return or you cannot have have a calling.

I think the Bishop is trying to help you and even though you may not understand why he is not allowing you to have a calling or partake of the sacrament, rest assured he is doing what he thinks is best for YOU (since you have been falling and "recovering" so many times).

The point that concerns me the most about your post though are these two parts:

Im just frustrated that I had been NOT partaking of the Sacrament (for me its a big deal and it makes me uptight knowing that my roommates are there watching)

I think its weird to not take the sacrament one Sunday, take it another Sunday, and NOT take it again the next. I'm self conscious and Ill do it but its weird knowing my roommates/other members will be noticing.

It reminds me of that video of the Church where this girl who is ready to get married make a confession to the Bishop in the interview where she is supposed to get her temple recommend, she doesn't get it and the first words out of her mouth is "what about the invitations, what I will tell my family and friends?".

I was talking about this with my oldest son the other day who still a young child and I was telling him that when we mess up big time AND we are truly sorry for what we have done, we accept whatever consequence/punishment comes in our way because we know we are the ones wrong and we want to make it right no matter what. We do not start rationalizing if the person in authority is doing the right thing "after all I just did it 3 times" type of thinking.

Personally I believe this kind of rationalization (what others will think, etc or whether or not the Bishop CAN stop me from having a calling or going to the Temple) can harm the repentance process you so desperately are trying to go through. Please be careful with that. The sins you are struggling with are serious and I think your Bishop is just trying to help you solve this issue once and for all instead of keep going through cycles otherwise, unintentionally and unconsciously you may think that you can still continue masturbating, watching porn AND still partaking of the sacrament and have a calling.

Just like any parent, the Bishop is trying to take away those dear things to you (privileges) so you can realize how important they are in your life and hopefully, will give you the strength you need to break this cycle once and for all.

You are not alone, millions of members of the Church struggle with these issues. If you need professional help, you can also ask your Bishop who can guide you and help you with a Social Services Counselor.

I wish you all the best.

Suzie

[Tarnished]

It sounds like you are dealing with an addiction, and when it comes to addictions you aren't over them for good after being good for a few months or so. An addiction never really leaves you, you have to constantly be on guard against it. I would suggest looking into addiction recovery and see what your stake has to offer. Talk to your Bishop about the option and see if he knows if the stake has something set up for it, if not look and see if your community or a nearby community has something you could attend.

[jayanna]

I am glad that you are working on being better :)

I think that your new bishop has the right of things. Obviously sacrament so quick afterwards did not work last time. Sometimes a bishop needs a little time to pray and fast about things before really knowing what to do. This is very serious, it can affect your future marriage relations. It would not be a good idea to get married until you have defeated this Goliath in your life.

You will recall Alma’s teaching his son Corianton that unchastity is the most serious offense there is in the sight of God, except for murder or denying the Holy Ghost. (See Alma 39:5.) Marion G. Romney, “We Believe in Being Chaste,” Tambuli, Feb 1982

If we imagine ourselves involved in improper things, our thoughts may influence our heart’s inclination and perhaps even our future behavior. Dr. Maxwell Maltz underscores the connection between our thoughts and our body’s nervous system: “Experimental and clinical psychologists have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the human nervous system cannot tell the difference between an ‘actual’ experience and an experience imagined vividly and in detail.” Larry E. Dahl, “The Higher Law,” Liahona, Aug 1999,

You can conquer this, I know you can. The Lord can help you.

You will want to stay away from your triggers at all costs. You might need try limiting your computer use. You might find it helpful to get involved in some extra service projects for a little while. Get busy giving :) Use prayer and fasting, you're gonna do great :) :)

Edited October 6, 2010 by jayanna

[Guest]

Sacrament is a renewal of your covenants... one of which is to avoid impure thoughts/actions. Just because you have avoided it for a week doesn't mean you are "done" and can take Sacrament again the next week.

This requires a life-changing repentance process that is not just a week-long or month-long thing. This is for the rest of your life. This burden will repeatedly come back to you all through-out your life and you will have to learn how to face it and beat it every single time. You need help. Because whether you realize it or not, you are facing an addiction. So, it would be great if you can go find a group to help you with this.

Don't worry about what your friends/roommates will think. You don't have that luxury. Worry about what the Lord will think. That should be your only focus.

Good luck.

[Gwen]

i read the op but only skimmed the responses. i'm not a guy so take my opinion for what it's worth. lol

i'm sorry i have an issue with being so quick to call something like this an addiction. the reality is one could say we are all "addicted" to sex. our bodies are hard wired to crave it, there is a physical "high" we all get from it. it feels good. god designed us that way. so yes there is a craving for it. if that's an addiction then fine, we all suffer from it. from what i understand about addiction there is a craving that disrupts your normal life, it's all consuming. 9 times in 2 yrs isn't an addiction. i'm more tempted to call it a habit but not sure it even qualifies as frequently enough for that. in my opinion the porn is the greater concern over masturbation. i would focus on keeping that out of my life above all else.

as for the masturbation i would look closer at the when it happened. what else was going on at the time? were you particularly stressed or anxious about something? boredom? were you just being a guy who is at the peak of his sexual development? figure out the why and then you can address it.

we all need a release and in a way an escape from the pressures of the world. climax is one of the ways we can attain that. in comparison to other means it's really the easiest. the natural man, our bodies, seek the simplest means to an end. so it's no surprise that once that's discovered it's the first place we turn the next time we need it. it's not a matter of overcoming some evil part of us. it's not evil, god made us this way. it's a matter of mastery over the body, being self aware, brutally honest with ourselves.

stop fussing over who may or may not see you not taking the sacrament. we should all self evaluate before the sacrament and there are many many reasons for someone to not partake that have nothing to do with needing to talk to the bishop. it's none of their business and your thinking about it will only hinder your spiritual growth. there is a sign in the waiting room of an office here that says "we wouldn't worry about what ppl thought of us if we knew how little they really did". i think that applies here. take that pride and stress out of the equation, you will probably progress a lot faster that way.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Gwen

[Misshalfway]

I think I am with Gwen on this. I feel very hesitant to use the word "addiction" with you. And I think that perhaps the reason you aren't beating this thing may lie in how you are choosing to address it.

Religious guys who care very much about doing the right thing struggle particularly with this stuff and are perhaps more vulnerable to compulsive cycles than guys who don't think its wrong. And sometimes in the church, we tend to rake ourselves over the coals if we even hint at having a sexual feelings. I think somewhere in our heads we get this idea that sexual feelings = sin. We get mixed messages about what it means to be chaste. And then we wonder why some of us struggle. My personal opinion is that we are so afraid of sexual sin, that we forbid instead of educate. I also think that very few of us understand what healthy righteous sexuality looks like in the first place.

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I wonder if you need to look at how you deal with your sexuality separately from your indulgences. Have you given yourself permission to be a sexual being? You are a sexual being, after all. All of us are. It's not like we are going to stop being so. And like Gwen said, you are at the peak of your sexual development. Can you tell the difference between normal sexual cycles and development, healthy and necessary curiosity, and sinful ruminations?

And then secondly, do you slip into the kind of condemning self talk that shames and punishes when you make a mistake assuming that you "deserve" it? Remember that these ruthless tactics are also part of Satan's trap to take you down. It's a calculated addition because he knows it will help to add another link to the chain.

When we sin sexually, the by product is shame. When we indulge in the shame and punish ourselves in our minds, we further entrench the sexual compulsion and establish compulsive cycles. And the only way to reverse the process is to stop shaming ourselves for being sexual and curious, and treat ourselves better when we make mistakes. If we can do those things, we beat Satan at his game and we interrupt the habitual cycles and we start doing better.

Does any of this make sense to you?

[rameumptom]

First, make a list of options that you will do instead when you are tempted. Temptations hit us and then we go on guard for a while, until we get comfortable again, then the temptations overcome us again. This means you must always be on guard.

Every morning as you shave in the mirror, get into the habit of saying to yourself, "I am an addict. I cannot allow myself to think on these things, but will sing a hymn (name other option) instead until the temptation goes away"

Next, every day, take a few minutes to think about the misery and pain this sin causes you. Allow the pain to sink into you deeply. Feel the remorse. The more pain you can associate with the sin, the more you will avoid the sin. Right now, you avoid the sin while the pain and remorse are still fresh in your mind, but then fall again when you forget or push those pains out of your head. So, keep those pains and remorse close at hand. When you are tempted, focus on the pain and remorse it will cause you. Let it shame you and bring you to tears. This negative reinforcement will be very effective in overcoming it. But you have to do it daily for a few minutes, and make it a lifelong habit of protection.

Finally, find where they have LDS meetings on Addiction Recovery Program. Many places have meetings just for those with sexual addictions. The manual is available for download on the providentliving.org site.

[Gwen]

and then he gets married and he has all these negative associations to sexual feelings. and every time his wife approaches him he starts singing a hymn and feeling guilt and shame and dirty to the point of tears..... that will make for a healthy marriage?

sometimes the best way to overcome something is to not make it bigger than it is. then you don't feel overwhelmed and incapable of mastering it. i don't see this situation as all that lost or over dramatic. just got to keep going.

[Misshalfway]

First, make a list of options that you will do instead when you are tempted. Temptations hit us and then we go on guard for a while, until we get comfortable again, then the temptations overcome us again. This means you must always be on guard.

Every morning as you shave in the mirror, get into the habit of saying to yourself, "I am an addict. I cannot allow myself to think on these things, but will sing a hymn (name other option) instead until the temptation goes away"

Next, every day, take a few minutes to think about the misery and pain this sin causes you. Allow the pain to sink into you deeply. Feel the remorse. The more pain you can associate with the sin, the more you will avoid the sin. Right now, you avoid the sin while the pain and remorse are still fresh in your mind, but then fall again when you forget or push those pains out of your head. So, keep those pains and remorse close at hand. When you are tempted, focus on the pain and remorse it will cause you. Let it shame you and bring you to tears. This negative reinforcement will be very effective in overcoming it. But you have to do it daily for a few minutes, and make it a lifelong habit of protection.

Finally, find where they have LDS meetings on Addiction Recovery Program. Many places have meetings just for those with sexual addictions. The manual is available for download on the providentliving.org site.

Instead of looking in the mirror and saying "I'm an addict", I'd rather he said, "That's not like me."

[ConquestT4]

i'm sorry i have an issue with being so quick to call something like this an addiction. the reality is one could say we are all "addicted" to sex. our bodies are hard wired to crave it, there is a physical "high" we all get from it. it feels good. god designed us that way. so yes there is a craving for it. if that's an addiction then fine, we all suffer from it. from what i understand about addiction there is a craving that disrupts your normal life, it's all consuming. 9 times in 2 yrs isn't an addiction. i'm more tempted to call it a habit but not sure it even qualifies as frequently enough for that. in my opinion the porn is the greater concern over masturbation. i would focus on keeping that out of my life above all else.

stop fussing over who may or may not see you not taking the sacrament. we should all self evaluate before the sacrament and there are many many reasons for someone to not partake that have nothing to do with needing to talk to the bishop. it's none of their business and your thinking about it will only hinder your spiritual growth. there is a sign in the waiting room of an office here that says "we wouldn't worry about what ppl thought of us if we knew how little they really did". i think that applies here. take that pride and stress out of the equation, you will probably progress a lot faster that way.

First off sorry for the grammatical errors. I now see that what I posted may not be AS clear as I wanted it to be. I was tired. Reading over all of this kinda gives me a weird perspective on the whole situation and it is all together uncomfortable and definitely embarrassing. My intentions are not to seek replies like "wow, I've never heard of a bishop doing that!" or "I don't think thats right." I will accept my situation and I stated it more to express frustration for my situation for which I must take responsibility. Its really hard for me but I am trying to face it.

I'm not afraid to admit that I had or have an addiction. I think it would be worse to understate a problem. On my mission I don't think it was an addiction but at times before and times after I think I allowed it to be an addiction. I honestly don't feel that RIGHT NOW it is an addiction in my life. However, I can say that it is a big temptation at times. Its just spiritually draining to feel alone and have to deal with a temptation so strong that just wont go away. I feel drained right now.

It is most prone to happening when I stay up late at night. Mainly when I am tired. There is usually something that triggers a pattern of thoughts whether it be an ad, a girl, a movie, a thought, etc. (I am not talking about porn here). I guess I feel I have a bigger problem with controlling my thoughts then I do with the self gratification. I know they go hand in hand but when I can control my thoughts and not think sexually I have no problem with resisting. Its when those thoughts are present and one is aroused that the desire to gratify those thoughts is present. Porn is not a problem right now. I have had no close calls in 2 months. I have no desire to seek it. I don't want viruses and most of all I don't want the spiritual disease. However, I still have to learn to master my mind and fight the thoughts. Fight my imagination. An imagination my body begs me to stimulate.

I don't want to give up but I don't know what I even have to look forward to. I've been told things like you will deal with this temptation forever (bishop), 30% of married couples participate in masturbation/pornography (bishop), just because your married doesn't mean it will go away (bishop).... how am I going to even enjoy life? Its just weird for me because I feel like I'm more right now I am more committed than I ever had been. I don't think to myself... "well maybe I'll slip up tonight..." I was feeling good about my life and what I have been doing. I finally felt like I was changing. I felt my character changing. I feel like a better person. I have had a real positive attitude toward almost everything and now with the stress of school, homework, being busy, being away from my girlfriend, all my friends that were here are married, gone, or both life is just hard. I don't know how to explain it. I feel like nothing good I do is really paying off. No achievement is recognized. I'm just having a hard time. I feel so far from those I care about and so far from their support. Its not that support from others is absent but I don't feel like it has lifted any burden from me. Really I think what helped me stay motivated the most (strange or not) was my girlfriend. She doesn't know but we formed a really good relationship in a short amount of time and we are really close. Now we are still really "close" but 1500 miles away and the stress and friction of recent days has made her seem even further away. It would do wonders if she knew how much I needed her comfort and if I could just BE next to her. I don't know why I am even saying so much... I guess I don't care if anyone reads it I just need to think. I haven't had time to think all day. I want to go to sleep now but I have about an hour and half of homework to do. I need a smaller slice of life right now but I accidentally ordered a $20 meal and the chef wants to shove it down my throat.

I don't feel like I'm going to fall, in fact in my frustration and sadness an anger towards Satan and failure has been stirred. I'm mad and I just want it to be over yet everything seems to say, "even once your forgiven it will never be over." When do I get to enjoy life? It seems like its all stress.

as for the masturbation i would look closer at the when it happened. what else was going on at the time? were you particularly stressed or anxious about something? boredom? were you just being a guy who is at the peak of his sexual development? figure out the why and then you can address it.

we all need a release and in a way an escape from the pressures of the world. climax is one of the ways we can attain that. in comparison to other means it's really the easiest. the natural man, our bodies, seek the simplest means to an end. so it's no surprise that once that's discovered it's the first place we turn the next time we need it. it's not a matter of overcoming some evil part of us. it's not evil, god made us this way. it's a matter of mastery over the body, being self aware, brutally honest with ourselves.

All of the above. Stressed, bored, anxious maybe... and being at the peak, yes. Well I guess so. I'm 22 right now. And that's the thing... I have no release right now. I want to go to the gym but I am physically, mentally, and spiritually exhausted. I am away from everything I enjoy. I have no car, no bike, no atv, no time for the gym... no access to what I normally enjoy. Music is probably my only outlet but lately I don't feel like enjoying it. I just want to think I guess.

Thanks to all for your time and concern. I didn't think I would feel as strange as I do about this thread. Oh well...

I just don't know what I need right now. To wait? Friends? A hobby?

[ConquestT4]

I think I am with Gwen on this. I feel very hesitant to use the word "addiction" with you. And I think that perhaps the reason you aren't beating this thing may lie in how you are choosing to address it.

Religious guys who care very much about doing the right thing struggle particularly with this stuff and are perhaps more vulnerable to compulsive cycles than guys who don't think its wrong. And sometimes in the church, we tend to rake ourselves over the coals if we even hint at having a sexual feelings. I think somewhere in our heads we get this idea that sexual feelings = sin. We get mixed messages about what it means to be chaste. And then we wonder why some of us struggle. My personal opinion is that we are so afraid of sexual sin, that we forbid instead of educate. I also think that very few of us understand what healthy righteous sexuality looks like in the first place.

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I wonder if you need to look at how you deal with your sexuality separately from your indulgences. Have you given yourself permission to be a sexual being? You are a sexual being, after all. All of us are. It's not like we are going to stop being so. And like Gwen said, you are at the peak of your sexual development. Can you tell the difference between normal sexual cycles and development, healthy and necessary curiosity, and sinful ruminations?

And then secondly, do you slip into the kind of condemning self talk that shames and punishes when you make a mistake assuming that you "deserve" it? Remember that these ruthless tactics are also part of Satan's trap to take you down. It's a calculated addition because he knows it will help to add another link to the chain.

When we sin sexually, the by product is shame. When we indulge in the shame and punish ourselves in our minds, we further entrench the sexual compulsion and establish compulsive cycles. And the only way to reverse the process is to stop shaming ourselves for being sexual and curious, and treat ourselves better when we make mistakes. If we can do those things, we beat Satan at his game and we interrupt the habitual cycles and we start doing better.

Does any of this make sense to you?

First of all... thanks. These replies are helping me at least see things from other peoples' perspective.

My personal opinion is that we are so afraid of sexual sin, that we forbid instead of educate. I also think that very few of us understand what healthy righteous sexuality looks like in the first place.

Please explain this. I may see your point but what do you mean "looks like? Arent we NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW. Wouldn't it be wrong to imagine it? We can't watch it (thats pornography). Wouldn't that be wrong too? I don't think there is any way to understand until marriage. The church already says things like "its a sacred thing." I don't know if that is how we are supposed to

understand what it is supposed to be like. Does it matter? Should fathers educate their sons on how it goes down? I don't know??

I have NO problem with myself being a sexual being. There are just so many taboos associated with sex and sexual behaviour....growing up etc. The world around us....Its always there trying to be a part of your life from the outside world into your life and from inside your body and into your life... if that makes sense. I know part of is what God intends because we have to choose and we have to bridle our passions. "Master ourselves" I know this that's good. I just feel like... I feel like... I don't WANT to be tempted. I don't WANT to have to deal with that but I do. Lots do. Maybe EVERYONE does.

Can you tell the difference between normal sexual cycles and development, healthy and necessary curiosity, and sinful ruminations?

Uhhhh....yes? I think...What are you referring to here? Wet dreams? Yeah... they are normal. I don't have a problem with that. They don't make me feel guilty. What is healthy curiosity? I'm not sure I understand that part nor sinful ruminations. Maybe I do.

I don't beat myself up. I can't take that. I can forgive myself I think. Just... the whole experience has been mind numbing. Desensitizing. Sometimes I felt so much guilt I had to find a way to accept my situation and at times I wrongfully decided to accept it "too much" maybe. I made myself live with it. I tried to NOT feel guilty which made it seem more ok to fall but I never wanted to give up trying to repent. Not once did I think I would never change.

Most of that makes sense and I think your right. It sucks. "The product is shame" Well isn't that the truth!!!

I just have a hard time evaluating what I think of myself and how much blame I give to myself, how I should feel, etc. Its just... I never saw myself falling into this sin. Its just not me. I didn't think I could be that "kind of person."

[ConquestT4]

Instead of looking in the mirror and saying "I'm an addict", I'd rather he said, "That's not like me."

I agree here. Calling myself an addict is harsh. Too harsh for me. However, I do beleive that it IS dangerous to do the opposite and think that Satan can't tempt me. Its more like, "I can decide who I am! I am doing what is right and I will be protected and made strong enough to face temptation!" I think we must all respect the power of temptation. Especially sexual temptation.

Being myself up? That thought just makes me hurt and I don't think that would be helping me. At the same time I realize sorrow for sin is essential and recognizing that temporary gratification is NOT worth the pain and remorse. You are right. Strangely enough even thought the pain is great it is easy to forget exactly how one feels. Maybe my mind tries to block it out.

I cannot sing a hymn. That doesn't work for me though I know it does for some. I KNOW that as long as I am positive I can fight it. When I am in a good mood temptation seems to have little affect on me. Its the stress, tiredness, depression, loneliness, sadness, boredom, etc that makes it hard. School I guess I just have to deal with. At least it keeps me busy so I don't have time to sit around get bored and have to find out how to entertain myself. I'm very prone to stress though. It runs in the family.

[Gwen]

from your recent posts i'd say your issue isn't self gratification at all. it's time management and priorities. you aren't making time for you. you have to make the time to walk, run, ride a bike, whatever you physically enjoy doing. you need the stress relief. you need the physical outlet. men i think need it even more than women. sometimes you just have to chop down a tree. lol it's a guy thing i think. but anyway. my point lol i think i have one... is exercise will relieve a lot of the same things you are using climax to do. take the time to take care of you, it's worth it.

as for what you have to look forward to.... you have tons to look forward to. you don't sound desperate. there is nothing in your posts to suggest that even after you are married you will have this insatiable craving that will cause you to go find porn and hookers on your lunch break. you sound normal, with a normal sex drive. that's good. requires some things from you now but eventually pays off. no it won't go away. or at least i hope it doesn't. you should want your spouse in that way. you sound like you want to take responsibility for things and you have been very mature about it. that's good.

i suggest when the time is right you educate yourself on sex and the many aspects of it. be very open with your wife, don't make it an awkward subject for the two of you. you'll find the right balance for both of you.

don't put porn and masturbation in the same boat, they aren't the same. sometimes come together but don't have to.

on controlling your thoughts, which it sounds like is the biggest part of the masturbation side of this, everyone is so different on what works not sure what to tell ya. for me to change a thought pattern i have to get up and physically do something or start a conversation with someone.

When do I get to enjoy life?

i'm sorry i can't help you there. working on that one myself, i know the feeling. i guess the goal is to try to enjoy enough moments that they outnumber the bad and then maybe we can sit back and say "yes i have a good life".... ?

[Misshalfway]

(I can't do the quote thing. So forgive me.)

First of all, I have to remember that you are 22 and not 40. LOL. Heck, learning about sexuality is sometimes a life long thing. I apologize for taking you to mock 4.

Second of all, this is a message board. We don't have all the answers for you. We can't fix this. And we certainly don't know you.

I think the dialogue you want to have and that you need to have should be with a counselor who is an expert at sexual compulsions.

Beyond that, take what posters offer for what it's worth.

Please explain this. I may see your point but what do you mean "looks like? Arent we NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW. Wouldn't it be wrong to imagine it? We can't watch it (thats pornography). Wouldn't that be wrong too? I don't think there is any way to understand until marriage. The church already says things like "its a sacred thing." I don't know if that is how we are supposed to

understand what it is supposed to be like. Does it matter? Should fathers educate their sons on how it goes down? I don't know??

I have NO problem with myself being a sexual being. There are just so many taboos associated with sex and sexual behaviour....growing up etc. The world around us....Its always there trying to be a part of your life from the outside world into your life and from inside your body and into your life... if that makes sense. I know part of is what God intends because we have to choose and we have to bridle our passions. "Master ourselves" I know this that's good. I just feel like... I feel like... I don't WANT to be tempted. I don't WANT to have to deal with that but I do. Lots do. Maybe EVERYONE does.

We are innocent at first. And then, when we are ready, we start see the light one bulb at a time. Knowing about....then knowing from first hand experience. Of course, context is everything.

It's not wrong to imagine it. Heck, when you are engaged I hope you are imagining it so you know what you're doing. It's not wrong to know physiology or the dynamics of sexual behaviors. It's not wrong to know the stages to orgasm or even to understand the differences between the sexes. Ignorance helps no one. And its probably the source many reckless and sinful decisions. Information is power.

Information, images, thought processes become sinful when one ruminates to a place of lust. When one uses another person, a picture, a memory, or a thought to get sexual gratification, corruption happens. You know this. You've done it. And you know that it doesn't produce the best fruit.

This IS what the church means when it says that sex is sacred. That doesn't mean there needs to be any taboo's. Correct principles and proper boundaries are all that is needed. It's a lot like the temple worship. We don't talk about what goes on there, but goodness the knowledge!!!

I am suggesting that part of becoming healthy, regardless of whether or not one is sexually active, is removing the taboos from our minds. Taboos = shame. Shame accompanies sex because Satan put it there. Not God. Get rid of the shame and you get healthier and even more spiritual. And you gain more control. Sexuality is, believe it or not, a very spiritual process.

Yes, I think fathers should tell "how it all goes down." We parents WANT to talk to our kids. We NEED to talk to our kids. Society sells a load of lies about sexuality and sometimes he sells it from the pulpit. And I'd bet cash you are believing some of them. And frankly, religious people don't talk about this subject enough or they don't know the truth so they don't teach the truth. Again, too much shame and fear. Just the other day, someone asked me if it was ok to take your garments off to have sex. I was like "Are you serious?"

Temptation sucks. THIS temptation sucks. And YES, everyone deals with this.. all the pieces and parts. But look, you CAN'T and WON'T bridle your passions without temptation. It's just part of the deal with earth life. And its part of the plan of salvation. So, (I hate to sound like an older sister here) but quit whining about it. Get mad about it if you need to, but then accept, stop making excuses, and move forward.

Can you tell the difference between normal sexual cycles and development, healthy and necessary curiosity, and sinful ruminations?

Uhhhh....yes? I think...What are you referring to here?

This kind of knowledge comes with time and it helps people like you who are using sex inappropriately because you need to reconstruct or maybe reestablish your relationship with sex. Consider this: Is it sinful for a baby to examine his private parts? (You prolly haven't had kids, but they all do). And they figure out that the little guy changes into a bigger guy. Is that wrong or good?

For a person who is struggling with addiction in any degree, teasing out the good from the yuck is part of recovery.

I just have a hard time evaluating what I think of myself and how much blame I give to myself, how I should feel, etc. Its just... I never saw myself falling into this sin. Its just not me. I didn't think I could be that "kind of person."

Well, we feel how we feel. The numbness etc.....that's sounds pretty typical of addiction stuff. And you don't want that. Feeling your feelings is a sign of health. You gotta recover some of those things, it sounds. The Lord will teach you the truth about yourself and that can dictate how you feel. I love addiction recovery for that reason. I for one see no use for blame. It's shame's evil twin. Contemplate personal responsibility instead.

I'm sorry this is happening. I honestly believe that Satan is specifically targeting the best of LDS men. Can you think of a better way to beat such incredible souls? And I also think that God is using this struggle, inspite of Satan, to make us all better.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Misshalfway

[Misshalfway]

I agree here. Calling myself an addict is harsh. Too harsh for me. However, I do beleive that it IS dangerous to do the opposite and think that Satan can't tempt me. Its more like, "I can decide who I am! I am doing what is right and I will be protected and made strong enough to face temptation!" I think we must all respect the power of temptation. Especially sexual temptation.

Being myself up? That thought just makes me hurt and I don't think that would be helping me. At the same time I realize sorrow for sin is essential and recognizing that temporary gratification is NOT worth the pain and remorse. You are right. Strangely enough even thought the pain is great it is easy to forget exactly how one feels. Maybe my mind tries to block it out.

I cannot sing a hymn. That doesn't work for me though I know it does for some. I KNOW that as long as I am positive I can fight it. When I am in a good mood temptation seems to have little affect on me. Its the stress, tiredness, depression, loneliness, sadness, boredom, etc that makes it hard. School I guess I just have to deal with. At least it keeps me busy so I don't have time to sit around get bored and have to find out how to entertain myself. I'm very prone to stress though. It runs in the family.

Sounds like you know yourself pretty well. I like your ideas about respecting satan and proper sorrow for sin.

Truthfully, only you know if you're addicted or not. Labels are only helpful if they explain what is really going on. I am not convinced you are addicted. I do think that you are stuck in compulsive cycles. If you aren't careful, it could turn into something worse....but you sound like you see that too.

Positive thinking is awesome. We all need our feel goods. But it doesn't break addictive cycles.

Go get some therapy. Do a good 12 sessions with a therapist. See what you learn about yourself through that process. Breaking cycles takes a heckuva lot more than playing pretty music and buying a bike.

[bl8tant]

Its the stress, tiredness, depression, loneliness, sadness, boredom, etc that makes it hard.

In AA, they teach you to try not to get too HALT: hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. I find that my resistance to temptation is much, much weaker with any of those four. After my separation and divorce, it's easy to get angry, hungry, lonely, and tired all at the same time, but I've worked out strategies to help avoid them, and you can do the same-- that might help.

[ConquestT4]

from your recent posts i'd say your issue isn't self gratification at all. it's time management and priorities. you aren't making time for you. you have to make the time to walk, run, ride a bike, whatever you physically enjoy doing. you need the stress relief. you need the physical outlet. men i think need it even more than women. sometimes you just have to chop down a tree. lol it's a guy thing i think. but anyway. my point lol i think i have one... is exercise will relieve a lot of the same things you are using climax to do. take the time to take care of you, it's worth it.

as for what you have to look forward to.... you have tons to look forward to. you don't sound desperate. there is nothing in your posts to suggest that even after you are married you will have this insatiable craving that will cause you to go find porn and hookers on your lunch break. you sound normal, with a normal sex drive. that's good. requires some things from you now but eventually pays off. no it won't go away. or at least i hope it doesn't. you should want your spouse in that way. you sound like you want to take responsibility for things and you have been very mature about it. that's good.

i suggest when the time is right you educate yourself on sex and the many aspects of it. be very open with your wife, don't make it an awkward subject for the two of you. you'll find the right balance for both of you.

i'm sorry i can't help you there. working on that one myself, i know the feeling. i guess the goal is to try to enjoy enough moments that they outnumber the bad and then maybe we can sit back and say "yes i have a good life".... ?

I want to make it clear that I willfully and purposefully stopped the habit a month before college started. I was busy before college but it was more like busy doing leisure activities and working a part time job. Low stress. If your talking about addressing the issue of temptation then yes... I think you're right. I do need to somehow find time. I guess I need to find out WHAT and then squeeze in the WHEN.

Since college and being super busy I have not succumbed even once to the temptation (to masturbate or view porn...porn just doesn't seem to be an issue now). I have much to improve and I know I must learn to really control my thoughts and passions. I think that will be the key for me to control my problem....or addiction....or issue.... whatever it is. This SIN.

I am 1 month or so into college so that makes a total of 2 months. However, college IS making me stressed, sometimes angry, TIRED for sure, hungry YES,...... I'm frustrated with some classes, learning new things, tests, my friends being far away, my girlfriend being far away...its all taking its toll. I guess I'll just have to suck it up and live with it.... It really sucks not being able to think of an easy solution. I really thought I could "enjoy" college this semester... not that its all bad. Just the fun/relief usually only comes when I put off whats "important."

I really don't think sex will be an awkward subject. At least I don't feel it will for me. I think that's a good thing. I plan on marrying someone that I'm close enough to that it wont be. Heck... if it was appropriate I wouldn't have a problem talking about it with my girlfriend. It wouldn't be that weird....but I wont. I guess I can imagine that sex will maybe be a lot different than what I thought it would be for these past...ummm....11 years. I know I'll have a lot to learn. Whatever... I can accept that. THERE! I guess I do have something to look forward to. I had just been feeling like all I ever hear about it from members is the problems associated with it. I understand that members aren't going to openly talk about their sex lives and describe it how the world flaunts it but oh well.... where am I going with this........

lastly... I don't think I have money for a therapist. That would just be awkward to me. I have no desire to be a part of an addiction recovery group. Maybe that's my pride but I'm doing well now and I don't plan on doing any worse ever. I just can't let my gaurd down.

---------------------------------------------------------

While I am here and while I kinda have your attention since most of you are all senior members with plenty of experience on this forum can I ask 2 questions? These things have just kinda been bothering me lately.

My boss (a fairly lds illiterate ex mormon of many many years) asked me a doctrinal question. He knows I am lds and respects that but he and his wife were talking and he told her that mormons in the past had banned birth control. Sometime in the 80's I think. His wife disagreed and so he asked me if birth control is allowed. I was pretty sure about my response and I answered yes without really hesitating. I told him mormons CAN use birth control (not referring to surgery here).

I didn't think much of it but I decided to look it up and I found some conflicting results. Quotes from general authorities, prophets, posts from members all over the web, etc. How could birth control NOT be allowed??????? What is said in True to the faith makes me feel like it IS allowed but it is still unclear and that bothers me. I understand that avoiding having children completely is strongly discouraged and I understand the concept of revelation and how it applies to choosing how many children a couple should have.

Two.... kind of a strong question but I am curious and I want a complete answer so that I don't have to think about it anymore.

Is oral sex within marriage a sinful behavior/ sex perversion? I always thought it would be ok as long as it is ok with both partners and its not something forced or unbalanced if that makes sense. Obviously one should not physically harm their partner while doing this. It seems similar to kissing. In marriage you are obviously "allowed" to kiss more than your spouses' lips...... I had a missionary companion (an odd one) tell me it was not allowed nor are any sex positions....ok... now obviously there are some places that male genitalia SHOULD NOT GO! That is clear to me. But define sexual perversions. To me that refers to things like what I just mentioned, role playing, binding, sex toys maybe.... I really don't know for sure. What about mutual masturbation?

I want to know and I don't want to have to think/wonder about these things.

Thanks to all! You don't know how much it means. I can't beleive you would actually take the time to read all this and formulate these responses. I do appreciate it. This is kinda becoming "my outlet.":lol:

[Gwen]

oh where to start. lol

the birth control issue. for yrs it was said firmly, "no". pres hinckley made it very clear that such decisions (bc, having kids, when, how many, etc) were strictly between the husband, wife and the lord. that revelation was over riding to all the older stuff that said no. hinckley's statement is the church's official position on the matter.

there was a time 30something yrs ago that there was a question in the temple recommend interview about oral sex. it was considered a sin. the current official church position on that is that what happens between a husband and wife behind closed doors is up to them, so long as it is not degrading, abusive, or involving others (porn included). my stake pres before i got married was emphatic that unless it was abusive he never wanted to know details of what went on in my bedroom. i would assume the same rule would apply to all the other things you mentioned (toys, role play, etc).

those are the short answers. these issues have been discussed in length in the open forum (you will have to pm pam for access), you may want to do a search there.

my caution is that you not go to far into the details of this kind of thing till you are closer to being married. if you are having issues with controlling your thoughts as it is it may not help. if you really want to know more you may want to look into the book "and they were not ashamed" (official site, there may be cheaper places to buy Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment ) it is a very clear educational book on sex (beyond the spiritual side of it) that is by an lds author so it's respectful and clean.

[MarginOfError]

You bring up some questions that are discussed extensively in the open forum on one single thread.

http://www.lds.net/forums/open-discussion/15239-lds-belief-sex.html

Quite honestly, that thread is one of the most content intensive threads I've seen on this site, and that probably ought to be published in a book of lds.net memories or something. It's top notch! With the questions you're asking, I highly recommend reading it.

[beefche]

I really don't think sex will be an awkward subject. At least I don't feel it will for me. I think that's a good thing. I plan on marrying someone that I'm close enough to that it wont be. Heck... if it was appropriate I wouldn't have a problem talking about it with my girlfriend. It wouldn't be that weird....but I wont.

Why won't you talk about sex with your girlfriend? I'm not saying after a hot and heavy make out session to jump up and say, "Let's talk about sex now!" But, if you are dating a girl that you are considering marrying, then getting a feel for her understanding and feelings of sex can be useful. I recommend talking about it when neither of you are feeling especially "romantic" and that both of you be sensitive to the feelings of the other--because it can cause some "romantic" feelings while discussing it.

Unfortunately, there are many members who think that even talking about sex (in an approrpriate manner) is sinful. It is not. I know that I would want to know if my future partner thought sex was something dirty, shameful, a duty, etc. It's such an important aspect for married couples, that I want to feel comfortable talking about it before marriage so that a pattern can be established.

[Misshalfway]

lastly... I don't think I have money for a therapist. That would just be awkward to me. I have no desire to be a part of an addiction recovery group. Maybe that's my pride but I'm doing well now and

So.....you'll pour out your soul and publish for thousands of people that you like to jack off after work, and you'll struggle like crazy and feel awful about it and make excuses and justifications.......but you won't go talk to one trusted person who won't ever tell your story, won't ever shame you or embarrass you and who might actually help you beat it in a few short weeks? Interesting.

I don't plan on doing any worse ever.

Did you plan on doing what your doing now? Might wanna look closer at your rationalizations.

I just can't let my guard down.

Ah yes! White knuckling. Except, isn't the reason you posted in the first place because this strategy wasn't working? And you wonder why you can't just relax and enjoy life......

[MarginOfError]

So.....you'll pour out your soul and publish for thousands of people that you like to jack off after work, and you'll struggle like crazy and feel awful about it and make excuses and justifications.......but you won't go talk to one trusted person who won't ever tell your story, won't ever shame you or embarrass you and who might actually help you beat it in a few short weeks? Interesting.

Just what kind of therapy are you studying, Halfers?

[Misshalfway]

Just what kind of therapy are you studying, Halfers?

Why do I suddenly feel like I need a drink? That or a sling shot.

[ConquestT4]

Why won't you talk about sex with your girlfriend? I'm not saying after a hot and heavy make out session to jump up and say, "Let's talk about sex now!" But, if you are dating a girl that you are considering marrying, then getting a feel for her understanding and feelings of sex can be useful. I recommend talking about it when neither of you are feeling especially "romantic" and that both of you be sensitive to the feelings of the other--because it can cause some "romantic" feelings while discussing it.

Unfortunately, there are many members who think that even talking about sex (in an approrpriate manner) is sinful. It is not. I know that I would want to know if my future partner thought sex was something dirty, shameful, a duty, etc. It's such an important aspect for married couples, that I want to feel comfortable talking about it before marriage so that a pattern can be established.

Ok. Point taken. I understand and I agree but I'm not about to be engaged. We have been dating for hardly 2 months. We are extremely close and marriage is definitely in the back of my mind but its too soon for me to make any decisions. We have talked about it a bit. Well really we just made sure that we weren't doing anything that was tempting one another and we made it clear where we both stand on the matter. I mean that we both have made the firm decision to wait till marriage. We clarified that with each other and it wasn't awkward at all. I think we are both pretty mature about it.