Midsingles

[beefche]

I didn't want to detract from another thread, so decided to start this one.

I've heard people say that no one in the church "gets" Midsingles. They don't know the needs, how to help, what to do with them. But, to be truthful, I have no clue what any of that means.

I have heard that sentiment since I was a YSA. I heard it when I was SA. Now that we have this new group of Midsingles, I'm hearing it again.

In my opinion, single members of the church need the same things married members need. A testimony, a friend, a calling, to feel needed and wanted. Perhaps I'm unusual or lucky, but I've never had someone not know "what to do with" me. I serve where I am called, I find friends and do activities that are fulfilling. I do admit that I enjoy spending social time with people of my own age. Being the younger person in the SA is very, very difficult. And since these activities are an option (not required so much like RS or Sunday school, etc.), I would more than likely opt out of them.

One of the difficulties with single adults is you have people from all backgrounds--never married, no kids, divorced, young children, teen kids, adult children, grandma/grandpa, etc. But, in my opinion, all needs are basic to human living--not according to a marriage certificate.

So, speak up, singles. What do you need? What do you want? Why is Midsingles so unique? How is it different than YSA or SA needs?

[Happiness3]

A while back someone posted this link

Eye Single | Times & Seasons

I found what this lady wrote to be very accurate at describing what being single in the church is like. In fact, I actually printed it out and read it several times.....

Hope this helps give you some of the information you are looking for.

[jennvan]

Are you talking about our conversation? What I mean when I say that many don't understand mid-singles is that many have never been a never married 28-40 year old to understand the struggle of that time. Each developmental stage has its own milestones and things to be accomplished. This is part of why they split the demographics like they do, 18-34, 35-49, 50-64, 65+. People in each of those demographics are going to have more things in common than with another age group. And there are things that mark progression in that stage, IE: getting married, having children, finishing school tends to be in the 18-34 stage, while raising kids and steadily progressing in your career tends to be in the 35-49, etc. Its called family life cycle theory if you want to look it up. When you end a stage without completing the things that are "supposed" to happen in that stage it can create some different experiences for people. Hence why we get people who are asked, why aren't you married? Or what's wrong with you, you're just too picky. Or whatever your favorite is.

So why do we create YSA wards? Why do we create YSA activities even if there isn't a ward in the area? Its the same with SA and now mid-singles. When we are in our own lives and wards doing our thing its hard to meet others who share your values and who you would like to be connected to. Its also nice to know you aren't the only one having certain experiences but that its a similar experience based on the life stage. Its like mothers who get together to talk about their children/babies. They need to be with others to know that what they are going through isn't just them, that they are in fact normal and to gather support. I find it similar with mid-singles. Its nice to be with other mid-singles so that I know I am not alone in the experiences I'm having and that I can get support in those things.

Please know that not all mid-singles have had good experiences in family wards. My first family ward I went to was AWESOME and exactly what I needed when I took myself out of the singles ward at 27. I just couldn't deal with the childishness (developmentally appropriate) and needed more adult support. My second ward was VERY different. They put me in the nursery (free childcare and a break for everyone) and I HATED IT. I love kids but it completely removed me from any interaction with the sisters in my ward. I was there 2 years and still had people coming up to me asking me if I was new.

Another thing that I have come up against is that many people don't know how to talk to someone who doesn't have children. Many times, when a single has children, they integrate much easier into the family ward. In my ward I've had 1 person come up and actually start a conversation with me, and I've been in the ward 2 years. Granted it was an odd 2 years where I was gone quite a bit, but still. People know of me, but don't know anything about me or my life. My assumption is because I don't have children and they don't know what else to talk about. I could be totally off though. I've had other friends tell me similar experiences in their wards. Those with children don't seem to have as many problems integrating into family wards while those without really struggle.

Going back to your original question :) I think what makes mid-singles unique from both YSA and SA is that it really is an inbetween stage. Many of the YSA activities (depending on the ward) are focused on the late teens/early 20's crowd which is appropriate. The purpose of YSA wards is to retain youth as they transition. My thought is that mid-singles functions as a way to retain singles as they transition from YSA to a family ward. Many of the SA functions, at least the ones that I've been to in my area, have been planned and attended by the older singles, typically 55+. Most of them have been in the area for a long time, maybe even raised their kids here and have been integrated into their family wards for a long time. Mid-singles is an odd time of transition from a YSA ward to a family ward and we lose a TON of people in my area at that time. I had a friend who told me that before we started mid-singles in our area that she had been going out on dates with men in their late 50's (she was 32 at the time). In horror I asked her why. She said, well they were the only ones asking me out on dates. She went to the SA activities and that was who attended. I would love to find a balance between YSA and SA which I think mid-singles does.

From what I've seen, the needs that are different go back to the stage thing. YSA is about learning who you are, getting stable in the gospel/what is the gospel and what do I believe, finishing school and starting a career. Mid-singles seems to be more of I know who I am and what I want, I'm good in the gospel and want to learn how to deepen my relationship with God/how do I do that, progressing well in my career, I've done the dating thing for a while/how do I date to marry so I can have a family of my own. The single adults seem to be more geared toward I had my family and my children are grown/I have grandchildren, I'm looking to retire/am retired, I'm looking for companionship or friends, I'm serving on the high council/stake RS.

I hope that this isn't too far off topic since you didn't ask this specifically. What I find is that many who are administering mid-singles who have never seen it themselves or experienced it, don't really understand how to make it not a YSA/youth thing. They want to treat mid-singles like YSA (or lump them in with SA). Many Mid-singles have more money and/or willingness to spend their money on traveling to other areas and having cool experiences. The extra bonus is getting to meet new mid-singles. Many mid-singles don't want to be treated like they are still YSA age, they want to have cool experiences and are willing to pay for it.

I also believe that mid-singles isn't for everyone. I have a good friend who is around 40 and she has 3 teenagers. She wants to marry someone older than her but not in their 50's. The mid-singles group that we have around here has skewed younger, like late 20's early-mid-30's (which is great, the exact demographic I'd like to see to "catch" people out of the YSA ward but that's just me). So for her, mid-singles isn't a good match. Now if we had a larger group that had more of the full range of mid-singles ages, it might be different. So for now she stays with the SA activities. She does occasionally come to a mid-singles activity but only because I ask her to.

I don't know if you've read this, but a really great thing to read is this explanation on mid-singles. Midsingles Program Outline

As far as what do mid-singles need/want....what does anyone single want....to be married. Even those who say they don't want to get married, really do. So how do we facilitate that happening? I have my thoughts, but what are everyone else's?

[beefche]

Whew! That was a novel, jenn.

Actually it was you who prompted this thread. I have had these thoughts (in my OP) for a while, but something you said on another thread made me think it might be a good idea to discuss.

I haven't read the link you sent (Matt sent that to me as well, but I just didn't take time to read it). I'll take the time to read that as well as the other link provided because I want to understand other's perspective. I simply haven't seen (nor heard from anyone close to me) of some of the experiences you and others have mentioned. Maybe I'm just special?

[jennvan]

I know, I'm sorry it was so long....but I'm totally passionate about it. I do that with marriage stuff too. That's why I've decided to stay out of the relationships threads (unless someone specifically asks me to comment on something) because people don't always want to hear what I might say and I'm totally passionate about it and might say too much. I'm also struggling with the whole communication without non-verbals on here so I write a lot to make sure I'm being understood. As you can tell, I'm much more comfortable face to face.

One thing I have noticed as well, those who have been in a stake for a long time and have people who know them well from other things seem to do better than those who move in new. I think that is part of what contributed to my first ward being so great. I knew many of the people from a stake calling I had while I was in YSA so they had known me that way for a while. And then their relationship just kinda seemed to transfer to others in the ward because those people knew me and welcomed me by asking how things were going since we had last chatted, you know, stuff about my life and who I am, my family and such. I didn't get that from people in either of the last two wards I've been in where I moved in not knowing anyone. I haven't had many people at all reach out and try to get to know me, even to the point that I had lived here 2 years before I even had home teachers come visit. And that was after totally having a fit with the bishop and telling him I hadn't had a visit in 2 years.

Anyway, I love that you started this thread and hope we can get more people to comment on things and give their own perspectives. Any way we can herd people toward this thread to comment?

[Dravin]

Anyway, I love that you started this thread and hope we can get more people to comment on things and give their own perspectives. Any way we can herd people toward this thread to comment?

Do what the Church does, promise refreshments. :)

[Obolus]

I think what most midsingles want is belonging within their religious culture. IMO, that is achieved through Christ-like service.

Most of us aren't making the transition, though. My stake in SLC has about 10% activity among midsingles on record.

[Therauh]

A time traveling device would be helpful....

Please drop me off somewhere before the cows of Bashan.

[flutterbee]

First off, thanks Happiness3 for that link. I read it and was thinking "oh my gosh. I could've written this!"

One thing that I get tired of hearing:

"I understand how hard it is being single. In the year after my mission when I just wasn't meeting anyone I felt I could marry..." Ummm, yeah. I'm going on 15 years here. Sorry but your experience doesn't even compare. I would go so far as to say it doesn't count at all.

In my opinion, single members of the church need the same things married members need. A testimony, a friend, a calling, to feel needed and wanted.

That's exactly how I feel when I keep getting asked what singles need or want. We're not a different species of human. Also, why does the Church have to "do" anything with us? I would appreciate being treated as an adult who can make up her own mind. Just because you plan activities doesn't mean I have to attend them and just because I don't attend them doesn't mean I'm going inactive or feeling left out.

Another thing that kind of gets to me is reciprocating favors. I feel like a lot of the time we singles give and give to the members of the ward in times of need and don't get anything back because they assume that there's nothing we need--or the thought doesn't even cross their mind that we might need things too. I know, I know, charity, blah blah blah but really, if I'm sick or if I've been working 60 hour work weeks for the past 3 months don't ya think that maybe I would appreciate a meal brought over or a little help catching up on housework too?

[jennvan]

One thing that I get tired of hearing:

"I understand how hard it is being single. In the year after my mission when I just wasn't meeting anyone I felt I could marry..." Ummm, yeah. I'm going on 15 years here. Sorry but your experience doesn't even compare. I would go so far as to say it doesn't count at all.

I think this is the biggest problem with people who feel they understand what its like to be a never married single in their 30's or 40's. Which is also different from being someone who is divorced in their 30's with children. Its just not the same. Different experiences, different needs. Which is also why I also feel like mid-singles shouldn't be a mandatory place for people to go just because they are the right age. It may not fit for everyone, but I'd love to give people the option.

I would appreciate being treated as an adult who can make up her own mind. Just because you plan activities doesn't mean I have to attend them and just because I don't attend them doesn't mean I'm going inactive or feeling left out.

Also I think this is a big one for many mid-singles. It feels like we are the same as youth or even YSA's. And I totally agree with the reciprocity thing. It would have been nice if I had someone bring me dinners while I was studying for comprehensive exams (one test for 2 years of info) when I was in grad school.

When my father died last year, no one in my ward even offered to do anything for me. It was hard that I'm not due the same thought process that others would have if they were married/had families. And yet I wonder if this is due to the rigidity of some people in our church, there isn't anything other than bringing food. That is the default, so if you need something other than that, we don't know what to do. It was wonderful that my mom's visiting teachers came into my parents home (unsolicited) while we were at the hospital and totally cleaned the whole house including changing linens on the beds. It was amazing how comforting that was to come home to.

I think what most midsingles want is belonging within their religious culture. IMO, that is achieved through Christ-like service.

Obolus: How do we do this? How would you do it? I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just looking for ideas.

[beefche]

The thing is, VT/HT should be looking at your individual needs. Sure, it would be nice to have the RS pass around a sign up sheet to help Sis Jennvan and bring her some dinners while she is studying, but that's not likely to happen at all. Cause honestly, NO ONE thinks of that unless you are having a baby. Heck, I don't even think of it and I'm single.

But, at the same time, we have a responsibility to ASK others for help. When my mom passed away, my RS president asked if there was anything they could do. So, I told her we needed food at the funeral. When I was trying to move last year, I asked for help in cleaning/staging my home to sell. I find that often people want to help but truly don't know what to do. So, we can let them know.

[Dravin]

Just because you plan activities doesn't mean I have to attend them and just because I don't attend them doesn't mean I'm going inactive or feeling left out.

I'm just YSA, so not in the same boat, but this still exist for me. I'm not a very social person, it's annoying to have my activity (and in a round about way even my testimony) tied to going to a social. Nobody seems to wonder if when the Jones' don't go to the Ward BBQ if they are about to go inactive despite them showing up on Sundays.

I find it an interesting attitude.

[Wingnut]

There is the attitude that wards "don't know what to do" with singles (midsingles or young singles), and I've said the same thing myself. What I've grown to learn, partly through experience, and is being confirmed in this thread, is that people think wards don't know what to do with singles, when what wards really need to do is stop thinking of "them" as singles. You're people. You're members of my ward, just as much as I, my husband, and our daughter are. You have needs just as much as my family does. They're just different needs for different stages of life. But it's not like you have leprosy.

[jennvan]

The thing is, VT/HT should be looking at your individual needs. Sure, it would be nice to have the RS pass around a sign up sheet to help Sis Jennvan and bring her some dinners while she is studying, but that's not likely to happen at all. Cause honestly, NO ONE thinks of that unless you are having a baby. Heck, I don't even think of it and I'm single.

But, at the same time, we have a responsibility to ASK others for help. When my mom passed away, my RS president asked if there was anything they could do. So, I told her we needed food at the funeral. When I was trying to move last year, I asked for help in cleaning/staging my home to sell. I find that often people want to help but truly don't know what to do. So, we can let them know.

Unfortunately, my visiting teacher was the RS president and I think she was overwhelmed with things at the time. Part of why I shared about my mom's visiting teachers was that when we are upset and overwhelmed with life crises, its sometimes hard for us to think what could be helpful or to ask for what we need. It was incredibly soothing to just have someone do for us.

I agree with asking for help and yet I still think it depends on the ward and how well they know you, like I said before. When I moved into my new ward, 2 members showed up and they were both in the High Priests Group (they were older retired gentlemen) and I was almost afraid to ask them to help since I live on the 3rd floor. I don't mind asking for help when I need it and yet I think part of what is important is having people around us to know what we might need, which doesn't always happen in some wards. Sometimes I have felt like no one in my ward really cares what is going on in my life because they don't take the time to ask. That makes me hesitate to ask someone for help. But I've been in another ward where I totally felt included and that people wanted to know how I was doing and I wouldn't have hesitated to ask for help.

And I agree with Wingnut, we just want to be seen as people with needs and problems just like everyone else. They may be different types of problems or needs than others, but problems nonetheless. How do we help others to see this?

[beefche]

Ok, jenn, this may seem like I'm picking on you....but, how well do YOU know people in your ward to help them? I completely understand that it's nice to just have someone help and know instinctively what to do. But, by that same token, do we do that to others? And yes, I include myself in that question.

[jennvan]

Ok, jenn, this may seem like I'm picking on you....but, how well do YOU know people in your ward to help them? I completely understand that it's nice to just have someone help and know instinctively what to do. But, by that same token, do we do that to others? And yes, I include myself in that question.

I guess for me I feel I've done as much as I could have to try to connect with the people in my ward. I teach an adults only sunday school class, I attend RS and participate, I have taught a RS enrichment lesson and I do my visiting teaching. What I haven't been able to do because of my work/school schedule is to attend every enrichment or ward activity. I only recently got home teachers who actually talk to me. I have talked with the bishop many times over the years but nothing has ever changed. I know a pretty good portion of the people in my ward and for the most part generally what is happening in their lives. Yet, I am never asked about my life and what I'm doing. I had one lady ask me about what was going on in my life and we ended up talking for a bit because she didn't understand what I was doing or why it was important.

I wonder sometimes if people in wards don't understand that the joys of progression that singles enjoy can be different from those who are married or have children experience, especially with women who get married young and didn't finish college. Becky Thomas on MormonTimes talked about how singles have to create their own change and progression where families and married couples have it happen even if they don't want it because of the nature of families and children. So achieving change and progression is bigger for singles because, for many, its purposeful and intentional.

I also think that change for singles is sometimes coupled with grief because for some there can be a realization that they still haven't achieved the ultimate goal that they would love to achieve. Almost in a "I can do this and all this great stuff but I can't seem to get married. What's wrong with me?" Not everyone feels that but I think it can be easy to feel that way for many singles.

Honestly people, I could go on and on about this topic for years. :)

[beefche]

But, once again, I think you are describing typical wards which has nothing to do with single/married. I went for years without a reliable HT. I still don't know who my VT are. And that is common in our ward and stake (and other wards and stakes). I do not think it is unique to singles that we let our bishops know our needs, someone is assigned and then that person doesn't fulfill the calling. I"m sorry it happens, but it certainly isn't unique.

And I completely understand and agree about that change for singles. There are a few and they come at different times for each. Some common ones--getting the boot from YSA, dealing with being in the SA program, going to activities (any--single's or ward or to the movies, etc) alone, realizing that as we get older the less likely we are to get married (statistically speaking), accepting ourselves for being single and "still a good person." and on and on...

[jennvan]

beefche, I agree that it isn't unique to have problems with home and visiting teachers. Yet it can be more difficult for singles because they don't always have another way to connect to others in their ward, especially if a single doesn't have children.

The change thing is what has me want to connect to other mid-singles. Yes, there are some things that happen in the church that are the same as others but there are many things that are unique that I want to be able to have people be with me in. I believe that married people can be with me in those times too but I've not had any married people want to have me be part of their life and want to be part of mine in that way. I have had a few that I was friends with while they were single that I've continued to be good friends with but its different when they get married.

[flutterbee]

when what wards really need to do is stop thinking of "them" as singles.

I find myself saying "us" and "them" and feel kinda bad about it even as I use those terms because it really shouldn't be US vs THEM. And yet I know they're (see I did it again ) doing the same thing so, I dunno.

I also feel that my situation is a little unique in that I'm an adult but I'm still living with my parents. (I work full time, own my own car, pay my own bills, I just can't afford to pay rent 'cause I'm trying to pay off school loans.) I get this weird response from people in the ward all the time asking if I'm a student or if I do anything all day. It's like because I'm living at home they impose this "child" label on me. I'm constantly being asked to do things for people in the middle of the day and when I respond that I can't because I have to work I get this totally shocked look. I also get a strange reaction when I tell them what kind of work I do--that I have a "real" job. It's almost like they expect me to be flipping burgers or something. (Yes, I know flipping burgers is a real job but I worked for a degree and therefore have a job that uses the education and experience I've worked for--that's all I mean.)

[Obolus]

Obolus: How do we do this? How would you do it? I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just looking for ideas.

Belonging comes from unity. What should we be unified in? Christ-like service. But we are not unified. We are separated into factions (YSA wards & traditional wards) that remove the people with the most time & vitality (YSAs) from the wards with the most service opportunities (traditional wards).

As long as there is separation, there is going to be alienation. That's the main problem in a nutshell. You don't unify a religious culture by creating one special needs group and separating them away from the rest of the fold.

1. Eliminate all singles wards. This will remove the transitions of midsingles, RMs to YSA wards, converts to local wards, & young marrieds to local wards. Hence, when two people get married, they can choose to stay in their ward and retain their roots and their comfort zone. And those who don't get married in their 20s? They experience no transition unless they move. And converts? They are socialized into wards that have grandmas and loud kids from the start.

2. Call singles to cover most of the heavy duty callings in traditional wards. You want to really train YSAs to be our future leaders, mothers & fathers? Then let them do the heavy lifting. Elders Quorum, Relief Society, YM/YW, Sunday School, Primary, Scouting, Geneology, Temple, Activities, Etc. Call married adults & old timers to assist and mentor them as they go. Seeing your role in a religious community necessarily creates belonging.

3. Call all RMs into the local ward mission upon their return home. Their testimonies are sharp and ready to go, and their experiences mean a lot to future missionaries.

4. Reduce all Primary callings to 6 months. This will give more members a chance to teach children, relieve those who are burned out, and provide a greater appreciation for the other auxiliaries.

5. Hold stake-level singles activities. This along with FHE & institute will provide singles to still meet and interact with all the same singles they would have encountered at a YSA ward.

That's how I would achieve more belonging for our culture.

[FunkyTown]

You have needs just as much as my family does. They're just different needs for different stages of life. But it's not like you have leprosy.

You don't know, Wingnut!

Maybe I do have leprosy. At the very least, I have cooties.

[Wingnut]

You don't know, Wingnut!

Maybe I do have leprosy. At the very least, I have cooties.

I'm pretty sure you don't have leprosy, but all boys have cooties. So, unless you have something you need to share with us (and with your lovely girlfriend), you definitely have cooties.

[FunkyTown]

I'm pretty sure you don't have leprosy, but all boys have cooties. So, unless you have something you need to share with us (and with your lovely girlfriend), you definitely have cooties.

I never used to be a girl, until I got leprosy.

Then, things fall off on you, Wing.

[beefche]

I never used to be a girl, until I got leprosy.

Then, things fall off on you, Wing.

Reminds me of a song...sung to the tune of Yesterday:

Leprosy...I'm not half the man I used to be!

My skin is falling off of me

Oh I believe in leprosy

[Dravin]

I thought this might but of interest for those still interested in the thread: Church Handbook 2 on Single Members