Spanking

[Dr T]

Hello Heather,

I did my postdoc resident/fellowship as a child and family psych. Your question is a good one. There has been debate for a long time on this issue. I somewhat hesitate to post research one way of the other for fear that someone reading it will use it as a justification for or against spanking. Here is an example of "mild" spanking: http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec01/spanking.html. I fear that someone would say, “See there’s research that says spanking is OK” and when the child continues to do the same behavior even after a spanking the parent often increases the strength “to get the point across” to the child and this can result in abuse. The above study was from 2001.

In 2002 we read of a meta-analysis (http://www.apa.org/monitor/sep02/corporal.html) that says do not use corporal punishment.

I for one, advocate using other forms of behavioral interventions when our children are acting up. I do believe that they need to be taught and shaped and there are various ways to do that without hitting. I don't tell parents not to hit though. The fact is, spanking is effective in stoping a behavior (in the short run). We also know though, that there are side-effects such as fear of parents, avoidance, not accepting responsibility for fear that they will be spanked, not internalizing the offense, becoming more sneaky in their misbehavior, a sore bottom, etc. If we want them to learn to make better decisions, positive reinforcement/praise for good behavior is a better way to instill internalization of appropriate behavior. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

Dr. T

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

Wow, Dr. T! I read the article and the thing that struck (pun?) me most was this:

"She tracked each child's development through adolescence and classified families in four color zones based on how often and with how much intensity parents spanked:

* Parents of children in the "red" zone were more likely to spank, often with greater intensity and usually a paddle.

* "Orange" parents spanked often but with little or no intensity.

* In the "yellow" zone, parents spanked occasionally with little or no intensity.

* Parents in the "green" zone spanked with no intensity or not at all."

What's sa big deal about that? Well, I'll tell you. The color groups very clearly illustrate the researchers' expected (intended?) outcome of the study. In our society, green is clearly associated with go, good, acceptable, while yellow and orange denote caution or potential danger and red means stop, danger, don't go there.

[Dr T]

Mom of 7,

That pun was great! (I love that type of thing)

Dr. T

[jax]

so if it apseted why is it not apseted to slap your husband are wife that way? they are naughty aswell!

[SmilingRedhead]

I for one, advocate using other forms of behavioral interventions when our children are acting up. I do believe that they need to be taught and shaped and there are various ways to do that without hitting. I don't tell parents not to hit though. The fact is, spanking is effective in stoping a behavior (in the short run). We also know though, that there are side-effects such as fear of parents, avoidance, not accepting responsibility for fear that they will be spanked, not internalizing the offense, becoming more sneaky in their misbehavior, a sore bottom, etc. If we want them to learn to make better decisions, positive reinforcement/praise for good behavior is a better way to instill internalization of appropriate behavior. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

Dr. T

I totally agree with Dr. T. (lol that rhymed)

Here in the UK there are laws against smacking/spanking your/a child. If it leaves a mark you can be prosecuted and face up to 5 years in jail.

Smacking is in reality hitting... and if it's not OK to hit an adult or an animal, then why should it be OK to hit/smack/spank a child - whether it be someone elses or your own child?

Smacking a child is often an extension and expression of the adults irritation or anger rather than a thought-out penalty imposed for wrongdoing. By this the child is more likely to learn that it is OK to hit someone else when they're irritated or angry...

Of course the child needs to learn that there are consequences for their actions. I just personally think that a child will learn the most from being told in a fairly calm manner that what they did was not good and why it isn't good. Often the child doesn't realise what they did was not acceptable. A punishment can then be considered afterwards if needed, but I think a child's understanding of the wrongdoing and their guilt and them being truly sorry can often be punishment and distressing enough for them.

My husband and I are trying to implement this in my family. Of course my three-month-old isn't doing anything bad and my two-and-a-half year old is only just going through her terrible-two stage so I'm not having any major behavioural problems from my kids... yet...lol But we do try to follow these steps with my daughter (and each other for that fact) and it works so much better for us than raised voices/shouting/aggression/smacking etc...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that good communication is a big key to having a good relationship with your kids - and your spouse and whoever else... :)

Well that was probably more than my two pence worth... lol

[PDeverit]

President Hinckley also teaches....we are suppose to Teach our kids......find his talk on that and read it....its great

Many of the Presidents have counseled against hitting kids:

Church magazines: You have said that your father never laid a hand on any of his children when disciplining them. 4

President Hinckley: That’s right. I don’t believe that children need to be beaten, or anything of that kind. Children can be disciplined with love. They can be counseled—if parents would take the time to sit down quietly and talk with them. Tell them the consequences of misbehaving, of not doing things in the right way. The children would be better off, and I think everyone would be happier.

My father never touched us. He had a wisdom all his own of quietly talking with us. He turned us around when we were moving in the wrong direction, without beating us or taking a strap to us or any of that kind of business. I’ve never been a believer in the physical punishment of children. I don’t think it is necessary.

Church magazines: Sister Hinckley, you have said that “you don’t teach a child not to hit by hitting.” 5

From At Home With the Hinckleys

I have never accepted the principle of “spare the rod and spoil the child.” I will be forever grateful for a father who never laid a hand in anger upon his children. Somehow he had the wonderful talent to let them know what was expected of them and to give them encouragement in achieving it.

I am persuaded that violent fathers produce violent sons. I am satisfied that such punishment in most instances does more damage than good. Children don’t need beating. They need love and encouragement. They need fathers to whom they can look with respect rather than fear. Above all, they need example.

I recently read a biography of George H. Brimhall, who at one time served as president of Brigham Young University. Concerning him, someone said that he reared “his boys with a rod, but it [was] a fishing rod” (Raymond Brimhall Holbrook and Esther Hamilton Holbrook, TheTall Pine Tree: The Life and Work of George H. Brimhall, n.p., 1988, p. 62). That says it all.

From Save the Children, Gordon B. Hinckley

It is not by the whip or the rod that we can make obedient children; but it is by faith and by prayer, and by setting a good example before them

“She might have whipped him and injured him, as a great many others would have done; but if they know what to do, they can correct the child without violence”

Chastening may be necessary, … but parents should govern their children by faith rather than by the rod

Although it is written that, “The rod and reproof give wisdom; but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame [Proverbs 29:15],” and, “He that spareth his rod hateth his son; but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes [Proverbs 13:24];” these quotations refer to … wise and prudent corrections. Children who have lived in the sunbeams of parental kindness and affection, when made aware of a parent’s displeasure, and receive a kind reproof from parental lips, are more thoroughly chastened than by any physical punishment that could be applied to their persons (DNW, 7 Dec. 1864, 2).

Instead of being behind with the whip, always be in advance, then you can say, “Come along,” and you will have no use for the rod.

From Brigham Young, Parental Responsibility

Use no lash and no violence against them

Joseph F. Smith, Wrongful Road of Abuse

There are scores and scores more, but if this doesn't affirm what your conscience already knows,

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"

[TeancumsSword]

Um, not to intrude, but there is a difference be "beating" or "whipping" or laying a "hand of anger" on your children and disciplined, in-control, swat on the tush followed by an overflowing of love. In what he is saying, he is correct, but applying it to ANY physical punishment is, in my opinion, incorrect... and I'm not entirely sure the intent of his words. If it is this will be one of those instances where I will take church leaders words as their opinions.

Edited May 11, 2009 by TeancumsSword

[Guest]

So, when my now-7-year-old just turned 3, we started to potty train him. That kid has always had a stubborn streak in him. Very easy to recognize since both my husband and I have stubborn streaks as well.

My husband is a son of a Naval officer. They have a "spanking spoon" - it hangs on the wall as a constant threat. The spoon finally broke on his older brother's buttocks when he was a teen-ager.

My father is from the old school - you mouth off, you get spanked. No talk necessary. No warning forthcoming.

My husband and I both agreed we are not going to do that in our family. We're going to be the non-spanking type...

Until that one fateful day when my son just turned 3 and just got potty trained. His dad asked him to stop what he was doing and he refused, so we took away his toy and that 3-year-old boy pulled down his pants in the middle of the living room and pee'd right there on the carpet while staring his dad down. My husband looked at me... I can see him weighing this decision... and before my son could put his pants back up, he got ONE BIG swat on that bare bottom. My son cried like the dickens, I run to my bedroom just so my son can't see me cry my eyes out and use it against my husband. My husband tells my son, "Don't do it again". And that was that. No lengthy explanations, no extra words, no drama, nothing. Just those 4 words after a swat. My son never did that again.

He is now 7 and he hasn't had a spanking since. But then, he hasn't done anything that required it.

So, judge my husband as you will. Call it abuse, illegal, whatever. I may not have liked it and it hurt me as much, if not more, than it hurt my son, but I completely supported him in that decision.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[its_Chet]

I’m a convert, was raised Catholic, and am from the rural Midwest, so consider all this while reading my opinion.

That said, my opinion is that spanking is the proper way to go, unless the Holy Spirit directs otherwise, which I would consider an exceptional case, but the Gospel is filled with exceptional cases, and I think a wise person will keep an open mind and be prepared to do what God wants when they come, rather than stick to their own ideas. Hopefully I practice what I preach, but I digress.

My parents spanked me quite commonly as a child. Both parents. They usually used a belt, at least for as far back as I can remember. When I was young enough that my Mom still bathed my brother and me, she noticed unsightly bruises and marks on our backsides from my Dad using a flyswatter on us. Up to that point, his preferred tool was not the belt, but those steel wire flyswatters with a plastic mesh stuck on it. He just pulled the plastic off and used the wire part. My Mom asked him to stop and so it was only the belt from that point on. I remember getting a newspaper in place of a belt on one occasion and I preferred the belt.

Looking back, my complaint, flyswatters aside, isn’t that my parents spanked, but that they spanked too often. I felt that they tended to spank first and ask questions later. I remember Bill Cosby, explaining the perspective of a parent, saying “We don’t want justice. We want quiet.” As a kid I thought this was just morbid sarcasm, but as a parent, I notice that I feel the same way. It seems more important to have order and peace in the house than to take the time to listen to the complaints, hold an impromptu trial, and make sure that the punishment doesn’t in any way exceed the crime. My two oldest kids fight like cats and dogs, more than I have ever seen any children fight in all my life. The spirit in my home is adversely affected by all the screaming, crying, and shouting, and I feel driven to lay down the law quickly and uniformly, so I tend to tell them that if they don’t knock it off, they both get a spanking, no questions asked. I guess maybe I understand how my parents felt when I and my brother fought.

For whatever it’s worth, I believe that spanking is the best way to go, in most cases. Of course, I believe that a child should be old enough first, and that it would be best to spank with a bare hand until the child is old enough that it isn’t effective anymore. And when a child reaches their teens, I think other methods need to be used.

I married a girl from the greater Phoenix area, and have encountered an uncommon degree of cultural conflict. I’ve noticed that out west, even in places where the people are politically conservative, there is a world view that seems leftist to me. For instance, the roles of men and women seem to be viewed differently. Among those cultural differences, there is a difference of opinion on what is the best way to discipline children. Where I’m from, even among members of the Church, we consider the aversion to spanking to be new age claptrap, an idea spawned inside the great and spacious building.

In addition to the cultural differences resulting from geography, I was raised Catholic. You never see children fussing in a Catholic Church, at least not where I’m from. I got in trouble from my grandfather once for passing out in Church (I had a fever). That’s the kind of reverence you can expect in a Catholic Church. Very stiff, very stern, very formal. But that’s how I was raised.

My wife doesn’t believe very much in spanking, though she is normally willing to not challenge my equality as a parent. She even spanks occasionally as well. But neither one of us seem to be having the level of success raising our children that we’d like. Our oldest seems to have some sort of cognitive disconnect. He’s getting better, but when he was younger I worried that he would grow up to be a crazy old man who sits on his porch and rambles a borderline coherent tirade against some unseen antagonist all day long. My wife says that spanking isn’t the best way to go with him because he “just doesn’t get it”. She may be right, but it’s all I know. If she comes up with a better idea, my mind is open.

You might be asking yourself how being raised like I was affected me. My parents were pretty strict about some things. My Mom made me take vitamins as a child that tasted exactly like vomit, and that’s no exaggeration. I wasn’t allowed to open a new box of cereal if one was already open, even if it was a different kind. There was a certain way everything had to be done I was expected to respect that. It was a bit of a drag as a kid, but now that I’m older I’m thankful that my parents raised me the way they did. I still got in trouble, and I suppose someone with less resilience than they had might have thrown their hands up in the air at some point and claimed it wasn’t working, but by the time I was a senior in high school, my idea of cutting loose and being wild was to skip school two or three times a year to go to the lake and hang out. I was taught to police myself, to anticipate discipline and avoid behavior that would incur it. I honestly believe that we’d have less crime if more people were taught to be considerate of others and behave themselves in such a way, and with respect for authority as well. That’s how I was raised and I love my parents for it. I shudder to think how I would have turned out if parents like some of the well intentioned but excessively mild people I know out west had raised me. Discipline made me a good citizen, and helped me to attain the mindset of one who respects God’s laws, and obeys them. That’s more than I can say for some people I know who were raised in the Church, particularly out west (especially in Arizona).

I’m not bagging the western states, mind you. I lived in Salt Lake City for a while and loved every minute of it. But I do tend to write off the opinions of people I perceive to be “cultural Mormons”, who feel that if you don’t have the right haircut, the right clothes, the right CDs and DVDs, and whatever else it is that means so much to them, than you couldn’t possibly have a strong and positive relationship with Heavenly Father. I frequently notice gaps in the testimony of those people, and see them as relying on their piety as justification for being prideful. I use mine as a tool to bring me closer to God. I wonder if that too is a product of how I was raised. At any rate, I would much rather face my judgment than that which awaits people who have criticized me for not looking like I came off an assembly line. And that goes for views on spanking also.

One last thing. Nothing I’ve said is meant to be “in your face” to anyone here. My frustrations may have been amplified here somewhat, and they have nothing to do with anyone here, so please take no offense or think I’m being uppity or anything. Just sharing a perspective that I see missing from the thread, for whatever it’s worth. God bless.

[Guest]

Oh yea, I forgot to mention, having been to Catholic schools all my life, those nuns, man! I remember getting swatted across the knuckles by a ruler plenty of times for not having clean fingernails! I wouldn't dare wear skirts that show my knees! So, yeah, I turned out pretty okay. And I LOVE the nuns. With all my heart. Ruler and all.

[Islander]

Have you ever seen in the movies when somebody is hysterical and screaming and someone else comes and slaps them them saying "snap out of it" or some other corny phrase like that? Well, the slap is not designed to knock the person into unconsciousness, or take 2-3 teeth out in the process and scare them half to death. The slap is not designed to "teach them a lesson" or punish them for some misbehaving and put the fear of G-d into them.

A physical reprimand is designed to interrupt and redirect inappropriate behavior. It is a non-verbal queue tht signals that whatever it is going on has to stop NOW!! In the military they drill you and scream at your face as a way to help you focus, pay attention, retain the information, inpact your fragmented adolescent mind and, in as a top down hierarchy, so that you know who is the top dog and where you stand in the food chain.

If you are hitting your child in anger, frustration, animosity and as a means to control them, you should do some reading and parenting training. Don't feel bad, after all the only parental traning most of us had was our own parents. But that is a story for a different post.

[Carl62]

I still can't wrap my head around the idea that, we as a society, condone hitting our children on the butt and that's o.k., yet if I slap my girlfriend across the face, I'm spending the night in jail (at least that long) on charges of battery. Don't get the double standard. Also, not to throw a boomerang into this thread, but another form of corporal punishment is washing a childs mouth out with soap (remember Ralphie in "A Christmas Story"?). So what's everybodys thoughts on this? Soap or no soap? I've heard of children actually dying from this by their throats swelling up from an allergic reaction and then not being able to breathe!

Edited May 29, 2009 by Carl62
nvm

[Elgama]

I'm with you Carl as a child I felt it was bullying and as an adult I agree our church leaders for many years have cautioned us against using physical punishment with our children. And I certainly will not be bullying my children

-Charley

[bytebear]

I think Time Out if enacted correctly is far more effective than a spanking.

[lilered]

I view spanking as one tool in the box. Of course their are much better methods (tools) of correcting children, but not all children are alike and what works for correcting bad behavior doesn;t necessarily work for another. I can count on one hand the number of times my 3 children receiving spankings. But the fact is two of the three did get at least a spanking in their life.

I have talked with a number of expierenced school teachers and most complain how unruly the children are in school and how difficult it is to control them because of fear from the parents and the legal community. Most teachers feel that todays parents are doing a poor job of teaching children respect, honor, tolerance, and manners. So if this is true, which I believe it to be, then the parents of today don;t have all the answers.

Years ago we received a call from the middle school prinicpal concerning our sons behavior. The principal asked is it would be alright if he used a paddle on our son if he acted up again in class. The intent was to do it once in front of the class. The principal indicated he didn't think he would have to follow thru with it, but just the threat would do the trick. My wife told him to proceed. It indeed wasn't necessary. The threat was suffiecent and our son changed his behavior immediatly when he found out he was not going to be allowed to continue his unruly behavior. He came home and told us, that the Principal threated him and we told him we knew because we had given our permission for him to do so.

It worked. In todays times, this would never happen.

[Dravin]

I still can't wrap my head around the idea that, we as a society, condone hitting our children on the butt and that's o.k., yet if I slap my girlfriend across the face, I'm spending the night in jail (at least that long) on charges of battery. Don't get the double standard.

If you ground your girlfriend (time out would be a form of this) its kidnapping, but not if you ground your child.

If you refuse to feed your child its abuse, but not if you refuse to feed your girlfriend.

If your child breaks something you are responsible for it, but not if your girlfriend does.

You can force your child to submit to a medical procedure, but not your girlfriend.

Likewise, your child's care provider requires your permission to perform a procedure, but your girlfriend care provider does not require yours.

For better or worse children are not considered tiny adults who happen to live with you as you are legally liable for their behavior (to a degree) you are given greater latitude in your actions towards them compared to random other people, though there are limits (and obviously you consider a swat on the butt to be such). Actually if you think about denying somebody their freedom (jail/room) because they won't eat the food you've offered them it, or because they called your wife a naughty name creates quite the disconnect between how we treat out children and how we treat adults.

Me I don't spank because its an outgrowth of a lost temper (speaking personally here), made me a little sick inside when I realized why exactly I was spanking and how it was only tangentially related to behavior modification, which is why I don't do it anymore. That having been said I don't discount that there are parents and children for which spanking is effective and can be done with an eye towards behavior modification as opposed to some of the negative reasons that have been brought up in the thread and thus feel it still belongs in the parental tool box so to speak. And obviously there are degrees here, slapping Timmy on the back of the hand because he was reaching for the hot stove is a lot different than laying into a kid's backside with a switch or belt because he forgot to say please when he asked for the carrots at dinner.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Dravin

[Just_A_Guy]

Also, not to throw a boomerang into this thread, but another form of capital punishment is washing a childs mouth out with soap (remember Ralphie in "A Christmas Story"?).

Good heavens, Carl--what kind of soap do you use?

FWIW, my parents didn't use soap. They just required us to take a spoonful of tabasco sauce.

[pam]

As much as I love tabasco sauce..a spoonful of it alone..nope I wouldn't like it.

[the Ogre]

Good heavens, Carl--what kind of soap do you use?

FWIW, my parents didn't use soap. They just required us to take a spoonful of tabasco sauce.

Tabasco wouldn't work on my kids. We use Korean gochujang (hot sauce with the consistency of peanut butter) in our cooking. Tabasco is just too mild.

[Carl62]

Good heavens, Carl--what kind of soap do you use?

FWIW, my parents didn't use soap. They just required us to take a spoonful of tabasco sauce.

Whoops! I meant 'corporal', not capital.lol O.K., so I was tired when I was typing:D Anyway, I would NEVER use it on any of my kids nor did my parents ever use it on me. Just wonderin' what everybody else thought.

[Dravin]

As much as I love tabasco sauce..a spoonful of it alone..nope I wouldn't like it.

I once drank a bottle of it once upon a time (I will confess there was peer pressure involved), don't really like it anymore, the vinegar upset my stomach so now I have bad gastronomical memories associated with it. Loves me my Sriracha sauce though.

I have known parents who've used hot sauce but you can always get used to it (and some have had children who have), I can eat cayenne peppers so some Tabasco isn't painful (of course at the time this would have been practiced it probably would have not been fun). Not sure if I could get myself used to a mouth full of Irish Spring though.

[PhDeverit]

Um, not to intrude, but there is a difference be "beating" or "whipping" or laying a "hand of anger" on your children and disciplined, in-control, swat on the tush followed by an overflowing of love. In what he is saying, he is correct, but applying it to ANY physical punishment is, in my opinion, incorrect... and I'm not entirely sure the intent of his words. If it is this will be one of those instances where I will take church leaders words as their opinions.

Listen, not to be disrespectful or anything but when Gordon B. Hinckley, as a prophet, states in General Conference that "such punishment in most instances does more damage than good" you really should take it seriously. You would have to wrest the counsel I've listed to a pretty great degree to conclude that child buttock-beating is condoned.

Here is some educational literature on just what "damages" you could be inflicting by wresting this scripture:

Plain Talk About Spanking

by Jordan Riak

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children

by Tom Johnson

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say

by Lesli Taylor MD, and Adah Maurer Ph.D.

Child buttock-beating for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit. Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

Most compelling of all reasons to discontinue this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. Parents and Teachers Against Violence In Education is a great organization with plenty of data on the subject.

[PhDeverit]

I’m a convert, was raised Catholic, and am from the rural Midwest, so consider all this while reading my opinion.

That said, my opinion is that spanking is the proper way to go, unless the Holy Spirit directs otherwise, which I would consider an exceptional case, but the Gospel is filled with exceptional cases, and I think a wise person will keep an open mind and be prepared to do what God wants when they come, rather than stick to their own ideas. Hopefully I practice what I preach, but I digress.

My parents spanked me quite commonly as a child. Both parents. They usually used a belt, at least for as far back as I can remember. When I was young enough that my Mom still bathed my brother and me, she noticed unsightly bruises and marks on our backsides from my Dad using a flyswatter on us. Up to that point, his preferred tool was not the belt, but those steel wire flyswatters with a plastic mesh stuck on it. He just pulled the plastic off and used the wire part. My Mom asked him to stop and so it was only the belt from that point on. I remember getting a newspaper in place of a belt on one occasion and I preferred the belt.

Looking back, my complaint, flyswatters aside, isn’t that my parents spanked, but that they spanked too often. I felt that they tended to spank first and ask questions later. I remember Bill Cosby, explaining the perspective of a parent, saying “We don’t want justice. We want quiet.” As a kid I thought this was just morbid sarcasm, but as a parent, I notice that I feel the same way. It seems more important to have order and peace in the house than to take the time to listen to the complaints, hold an impromptu trial, and make sure that the punishment doesn’t in any way exceed the crime. My two oldest kids fight like cats and dogs, more than I have ever seen any children fight in all my life. The spirit in my home is adversely affected by all the screaming, crying, and shouting, and I feel driven to lay down the law quickly and uniformly, so I tend to tell them that if they don’t knock it off, they both get a spanking, no questions asked. I guess maybe I understand how my parents felt when I and my brother fought.

For whatever it’s worth, I believe that spanking is the best way to go, in most cases. Of course, I believe that a child should be old enough first, and that it would be best to spank with a bare hand until the child is old enough that it isn’t effective anymore. And when a child reaches their teens, I think other methods need to be used.

I married a girl from the greater Phoenix area, and have encountered an uncommon degree of cultural conflict. I’ve noticed that out west, even in places where the people are politically conservative, there is a world view that seems leftist to me. For instance, the roles of men and women seem to be viewed differently. Among those cultural differences, there is a difference of opinion on what is the best way to discipline children. Where I’m from, even among members of the Church, we consider the aversion to spanking to be new age claptrap, an idea spawned inside the great and spacious building.

In addition to the cultural differences resulting from geography, I was raised Catholic. You never see children fussing in a Catholic Church, at least not where I’m from. I got in trouble from my grandfather once for passing out in Church (I had a fever). That’s the kind of reverence you can expect in a Catholic Church. Very stiff, very stern, very formal. But that’s how I was raised.

My wife doesn’t believe very much in spanking, though she is normally willing to not challenge my equality as a parent. She even spanks occasionally as well. But neither one of us seem to be having the level of success raising our children that we’d like. Our oldest seems to have some sort of cognitive disconnect. He’s getting better, but when he was younger I worried that he would grow up to be a crazy old man who sits on his porch and rambles a borderline coherent tirade against some unseen antagonist all day long. My wife says that spanking isn’t the best way to go with him because he “just doesn’t get it”. She may be right, but it’s all I know. If she comes up with a better idea, my mind is open.

You might be asking yourself how being raised like I was affected me. My parents were pretty strict about some things. My Mom made me take vitamins as a child that tasted exactly like vomit, and that’s no exaggeration. I wasn’t allowed to open a new box of cereal if one was already open, even if it was a different kind. There was a certain way everything had to be done I was expected to respect that. It was a bit of a drag as a kid, but now that I’m older I’m thankful that my parents raised me the way they did. I still got in trouble, and I suppose someone with less resilience than they had might have thrown their hands up in the air at some point and claimed it wasn’t working, but by the time I was a senior in high school, my idea of cutting loose and being wild was to skip school two or three times a year to go to the lake and hang out. I was taught to police myself, to anticipate discipline and avoid behavior that would incur it. I honestly believe that we’d have less crime if more people were taught to be considerate of others and behave themselves in such a way, and with respect for authority as well. That’s how I was raised and I love my parents for it. I shudder to think how I would have turned out if parents like some of the well intentioned but excessively mild people I know out west had raised me. Discipline made me a good citizen, and helped me to attain the mindset of one who respects God’s laws, and obeys them. That’s more than I can say for some people I know who were raised in the Church, particularly out west (especially in Arizona).

I’m not bagging the western states, mind you. I lived in Salt Lake City for a while and loved every minute of it. But I do tend to write off the opinions of people I perceive to be “cultural Mormons”, who feel that if you don’t have the right haircut, the right clothes, the right CDs and DVDs, and whatever else it is that means so much to them, than you couldn’t possibly have a strong and positive relationship with Heavenly Father. I frequently notice gaps in the testimony of those people, and see them as relying on their piety as justification for being prideful. I use mine as a tool to bring me closer to God. I wonder if that too is a product of how I was raised. At any rate, I would much rather face my judgment than that which awaits people who have criticized me for not looking like I came off an assembly line. And that goes for views on spanking also.

One last thing. Nothing I’ve said is meant to be “in your face” to anyone here. My frustrations may have been amplified here somewhat, and they have nothing to do with anyone here, so please take no offense or think I’m being uppity or anything. Just sharing a perspective that I see missing from the thread, for whatever it’s worth. God bless.

Already listed are a few quotes by prophets against child buttock-battering. I have also already listed some of the "damages" (as Gordon B. Hinckley put it) that can occur by such punishment (child buttock-beating).

[Hemidakota]

So what are people's opinions on corporal punishment (for kids)? Does anyone have any LDS Church statements on this subject?

Beat them senseless... Not! There are times I used to employ some punishment with our first three. The last five understood this and never since did need to employ this type of punishment again. As I learned this from my father, it was a change for me in my life never to speak back and to honor my parents as a child.

[its_Chet]

Already listed are a few quotes by prophets against child buttock-battering. I have also already listed some of the "damages" (as Gordon B. Hinckley put it) that can occur by such punishment (child buttock-beating).

Could just be the skeptic in me, or maybe I'm just too lazy to look through all 10 pages of this thread, but could you put your quotes and such in a reply to me? I am sincerely interested to see them. I remain as yet convinced that the notion that there is anything at all wrong with spanking is just new age gobbledy-guk conceived by leftists and bohemians during the 60's and now beginning to permeate more traditionally conservative segments of American society.

True, I've heard on one occasion a General Authority (don't remember who) praised parents who "spare the rod", though it didn't sound like a ringing condemnation of those who don't. There are some parts of the country where people don't believe in spanking and parts were people do. I see it as a cultural issue, not a doctrinal one.

Also, we don't do any battering or beating where I'm from. I'm sure that would cause damage and is immoral. Spanking is something different though. It helped me learn respect for authority as a child, and eventually I learned to police myself. It would have been a terrible thing for me if my parents had not spanked me when I got out of line. I think it would be neglect on my part if I did not teach my children right from wrong, and when words don't work, I know from experience that the belt or paddle does. We don't spank our kids if we don't have to. But if we have to, we do it to keep them from getting the idea that they can defy authority with immunity.

When I was in high school, if you got sent to the principal's office you could choose between three days of detention or three swats with the paddle (made out of a 2 x4). The students almost always chose the paddle. Willingly. I doubt they'd choose that if it caused them any damage.

I'm not out to tell anyone else how to raise their kids. I apologize if I sound disrespectful. I've had enough threats, insults, and screeching heaped upon me by some of my in-laws about this issue though. I find some of their cultural practices and ideas to be very wrong, but I don't get in their faces about it. I wish they could reciprocate that respect, rather than see me as some kind of subordinate, subject to their will and imagined mandate. And that just reinforces my opinion that this anti-spanking stuff is a cultural by-product of the counter culture revolution of the 60s. The 60s didn't go over too well where I'm from.