Internet Missionaries!

[Maya]

maya, i understand what you are saying about the mother's perspective and wanting to stay in touch....... :)

I really dont care if I meet him or not, but when helping in misionary work is affected because it happens to be my son so... THAT is irritating.

It would be nice to see him, but only to say hi and shake hands. It feels so unnatural that he is closer than my oldest daughters family. Problem is that so many mothers cant let go, so no mother is to talk or see their sons. Actually I cant see what is the point of allowing the phonecall on Christmas and mothersday? As one can e-mail every week, 2 rows! Would be better if you were able to call 2 times a year, when and IF there is something important you need to talk with him about. Besides the mothers day here is completely in an other month! I did not recieve a mothersday call, as he did not get in the phone or something... It was ok. I know he is doing fine. Takes me only a night on a boat to be there to clap his hed if he needs it

I also think that we, usual members, can do a lot misionarywork on the internett. Only bad thing is, that we dont get called officially and thus we dont get the respect for our work as it is not official. (I can hear, in my mind, the Finnish leaders go... ooo HER and looking at one an other with a look, that does not give much hope.) Many even think that we are doing devilswork or endangering our faith or writting wrong information or such herresy. LDS.net is considered a too suspicious place to inform about it in the meetings or to give the adress to the missionaries to hand on. LDS.org is the only adress that is beeing delt out. That is a great thing, but I think there are many, that dont ask their questions on the org, but might do that on the net. A link to net on org for discusition would be great (for each language that excists on LDS.net too). Also the languages are rising. Today our misionpersidents wife asked me if there was a forum or some internett mision thing on any African language.... I told her that not to my knowledge but I am sure that through LDS.net we can arrange one.

[pam]

The problem with trying to start a forum on any language from Africa is there are thousands of official languages. There is no way I can think of that it would be possible.

While lds.org and mormon.org are the official Church websites, I don't see why you personally can't say.."Hey I know of this other website you can go to." Or even give the website for MGF. There are lots of websites there they can choose from to get information.

Edited October 31, 2010 by pam

[Dravin]

The problem with trying to start a forum on any language from Africa is there are thousands of official languages. There is no way I can think of that it would be possible.

I see a simpler hurdle. Do any of the Mods speak the languages in question? The boards need to be moderated which means we need someone who can read the posts in question without having to go through Google Translate.

[pam]

I see a simpler hurdle. Do any of the Mods speak the languages in question? The boards need to be moderated which means we need someone who can read the posts in question without having to go through Google Translate.

We don't have mods now that can read the foreign language forums we already have. Yet they exist.

[bigfoot]

i was always told that the most successful long term baptisms/converts come when the person is introduced to the gospel through a friend or someone they already know at church. that's why member missionary work was supposed to be so important. that's why, when we had missionaries, they wanted to come to our home every week and teach someone we knew or follow up on why we didn't have anyone over that week and re-commit us to asking someone to our home. i would think getting on the internet would be less personal than tracting.... so this is going to help how?

ok, good to know

if what you are doing here is an example of that, as moderators we call that spam. it gets ppl banned. not sure that's good pr.

we have ward missionaries. i have no issue with calling ppl to be "online" missionaries. i've felt that was the message being sent for a very long time with the member missionary talks. part of that was online. i have no issue when guys get home if they are called to blog about their mission or whatever to help spread the word. i have no issue if they want to call ym who are mission age but made mistakes that prevent a mission but are repentant. but i don't understand why this is being put on full time missionaries. a lot of my concerns are already stated in other posts in this thread.

k

well, you know we feel it the same way, that people are most likely to remain active when introduced by a friend. you are preaching to the choir, I am A MISSIONARY!! we still do the exact same things other missionaries do, just take one hour out of the day to do online work. Plus it is the same concept, we want people not only to check out our blog, but refer there friends to us. this gets us in the door. And the reason we go onto forums is to get our blog more and more public, the more followers the more widespread it will be, this is why we want all who read this to become a follower, it will help the work of the lord move forward.

and if you are still skeptical, just remember this came forth from an apostle of god. I am just doing my best to follow his counsel as he follows god, we don't know how this is going to work, it is very very new, we are just a pilot mission for it. but support would be helpful, I know i am not perfect, but I am trying my best to fulfill my calling.

Edited November 1, 2010 by pam
links to blogs and personal websites must be in signature not in body of message

[Wingnut]

Well, you know we feel it the same way, that people are most likely to remain active when introduced by a friend. You are preaching to the choir, I am A MISSIONARY!! We still do the exact same things other missionaries do, just take one hour out of the day to do online work. Plus it is the same concept, we want people not only to check out our blog, but refer their friends to us. This gets us in the door. And the reason we go onto forums is to get our blog more and more public, the more followers the more widespread it will be, this is why we want all who read this to become a follower, it will help the work of the Lord move forward.

And if you are still skeptical, just remember this came forth from an Apostle of God. I am just doing my best to follow his counsel as he follows God, we don't know how this is going to work, it is very very new, we are just a pilot mission for it. But support would be helpful, I know I am not perfect, but I am trying my best to fulfill my calling.

Please follow my blog: To bring the world His truth

Fixed. You're much more credible when you use correct punctuation, spelling, and grammar.

[bigfoot]

thanks for that

[dahlia]

This is an interesting conversation. Much of my work as an academic deals with information technology and society. I find the LDS use of info tech to be fascinating and often cruise the web to see what I can find. Sometimes I'm looking for substantive content, sometimes I'm just looking to see how the technology is used.

I understand wanting the missionaries to concentrate on their mission, but I can also understand using technology for outreach. From what I've read here, I don't think it would bother me for the missionaries to have an online presence, though I may be biased because that's the way I and everyone I know (except my mother, and even she's on AOL) operate.

Also, I see on YouTube videos of missionaries in the field. How can they take videos if they're not supposed to use the internet? As an investigator, and not knowing any Mormons, looking at missionaries' videos on YouTube was quite informative.

I've kidded my missionaries about their being so busy and having to make appointments, but I've never really pressed them about what they do all day. I understand the preparation day, service, and praying and studying so they can teach, but that wouldn't take all their time. I live in a relatively small college town; there just can't be that many investigators for them to visit. What do these guys do all day? They have cell phones, which I see them check quite frequently.

Also, what's with not using first names? Is this a safety concern? Something religious? They aren't consecrated clergy, so it wouldn't be like calling a priest by his first name.

I'll be interested to see where this conversation goes.

[Dravin]

They aren't consecrated clergy

That's exactly what they are. Elders are ordained* ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They just happen to only be consecrated for 2 years.

* Not sure if they are considered such legally speaking (though Bishops are and they have no more formal schooling in Religion than Missionaries). Of course one doesn't call a Catholic Priest Father because of his legal status, if I met a Catholic Priest in a country where the Catholic Church and its Clergy were not legally recognized I'd not start calling him by his first name.

As a practical matter people tend to think of the full time Elder's as "the boys" or those "nice young men" or otherwise not as what they are. Men with the Priesthood and Authority of God to preach and administer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ who have dedicated 2 years to spreading the gospel full time, it would be even worse if instead of Elder Lastname I'd become Diminutive Firstname in the eyes of my investigators. It is also intended to set a certain teacher student relationship. For the record whenever possible Elders should be referring to investigators (and members) as Brother or Sister X, in my experience investigators resist such and I always figured it would be rude to insist on calling them something they didn't want to be called.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Dravin

[pam]

Fixed. You're much more credible when you use correct punctuation, spelling, and grammar.

If we had a rule that everyone must use proper grammar, correct punctuation and spelling all the time we wouldn't have a website. I'd never return to a website if someone corrected my spelling and grammar so publically.

Perhaps we should read the spirit of the message and not be so nit picky about the small stuff. It starts to sound catty when people are corrected all the time.

Edited November 1, 2010 by pam

[Gwen]

one of the reasons missionaries are sent away from home, prevented from wearing their "normal" clothes from before the mission, are given a specific haircut, and not allowed to bring all their gadgets, music, etc from home is to create a new environment. they are supposed to leave the world they came from behind and give 100% to the lord. they can go back to those things when they get home. their calls and such home are limited to help them stay focused and learn to rely on the lord. or at least this was my understanding. maybe i'm wrong.

one of my concerns, probably my biggest, is the attraction of the internet. i understand right now it's a trial program so only very select missionaries are doing it. but expand it; it's "working" so all missionaries are given this assignment. you have to assume with the way technology is right now any missionary in the field has already been online for about 5 yrs before the mission. they have "virtual" friends, communities, games, sites they visit, etc that are part of their daily life. most teens are accessing it from their phones so it really is part of their daily life. i can't count the number of posts i see about addictions to the internet; be it games, music, forums, chats, etc. so you take a ym away from his "normal" life to create a very specific environment and then give him permission to get online so many hours a day. if you have an online "life" then it's like being told you can go home for an hour every day. but it's not home to mom and dad, responsibility, and ppl that are looking out for you, it's that unrestricted entertainment/social part of your life. how strong would the desire be there to say "i used to go to this site all the time, let me go there and share about my blog"? now you are in the door, to go back to all kinds of conversations, etc like before. just seems like a huge distraction/accident waiting to happen. i'm not just talking about old habits coming back but also what new they are exposed to.

i don't have issues with blogs so much (if it's being kept to the appropriate time). they go in, post what they want, move on. that i could see some good from. for the family, local members, whoever that want to follow it. posting links to these blogs from mormon.org or even on lds.org so members can find them and follow them. i do worry a little about stupid ppl spamming those blogs with inappropriate comments or even porn (we get it here).

how many conversations take place on this forum would be distracting to the focus of a mission and maybe even the spirit? i'm not sure missionaries need to be part of that. they aren't "bad" but they aren't conducive to the atmosphere i thought missionaries were supposed to be living in. or what happens on fb. so let's say i friend "bigfoot" (why didn't you use elder soandso?) now he will get a news feed on everything i post and do as well as my getting his updates. i can tell you some of the friends i have don't use the best language, they don't post the best pics or music videos. yes i choose not to look further at those but i can't stop the initial exposure when i make that decision. it would be very distracting if i were trying to focus on a mission the way full time missionaries are supposed to (yes i say that having never actually served a full time mission). i would be uncomfortable knowing a full time missionary was getting updates from my fb. i don't post anything "bad" but it's not intended for someone that is trying to focus so much on serving the lord, that's not my intended audience. a time and a place.

what we do on this site, the way we share the gospel is very different and for a different audience than the typical full time missionary is intended to do. nothing wrong, just different. we need all kinds to make the world go round.

i must admit i would be more comfortable if the program were more of an approach of, 'we are letting some missionaries blog but we aren't sending them out into the cyber world. we ask members who are already there to follow their blogs, share them with friends and help to make the accurate information more accessible in general to the cyber world.' let others go to the forums and fb.

and maybe all this is just in my head and i'm over reacting. honestly i hope my concerns are proven an over reaction and unnecessary fuss.

[beefche]

Honestly, I don't understand the concern. If the LDS Church is doing this, don't you think they've (the 1st Presidency and Quorum of 12) have already discussed all sides of the issue? Perhaps it's a pilot program that will work. Perhaps it won't. But, I truly believe that our leaders are very, very aware of the risks and rewards of such a program.

And for that reason, I will support them and assume that they have considered all sides (and probably thought of many others and had a lot of information on which to base their decision).

[pam]

Honestly, I don't understand the concern. If the LDS Church is doing this, don't you think they've (the 1st Presidency and Quorum of 12) have already discussed all sides of the issue? Perhaps it's a pilot program that will work. Perhaps it won't. But, I truly believe that our leaders are very, very aware of the risks and rewards of such a program.

And for that reason, I will support them and assume that they have considered all sides (and probably thought of many others and had a lot of information on which to base their decision).

Thank you thank you thank you. Exactly what I was just about to post. You beat me again.

[pam]

I have sent a message to Johnathan who is the President and CEO of MGF asking him to find out exactly what they are allowed and not allowed to do. Where they are allowed to go etc. With his many many contacts we should be able to find out.

[Gwen]

i'm sure they have discussed it ad nauseum and i have nothing new to suggest. i've never been one to dismiss the ga's as stuffy old men who can't keep up with the changing times. in fact i feel just the opposite.

i've also had experiences (which i will not detail here) that allow me to know not every detail of church operation is directed by revelation from god. i do hope i get a confirmation otherwise about this program, that it is exactly what is needed and will be a huge success. but right now, with the information i have, it makes me uneasy. doesn't mean i don't support my leaders. another reason i say there is a difference in person and online forums. here i will express those concerns. if we had missionaries i would not go up to them and tell them i have reservations about the program they are doing. i have no desire to discourage anyone from the work. i do hope the best for them and the work they are doing.

[beefche]

You may not go up to your missionaries at home and do that, but you've effectively done that to a missionary here.

And I know that not every single program in the church is "directed" by revelation. However, these men that I sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators are directed by God. As such, if a program is horribly against God's will, He WILL direct them against it. Sometimes, programs are instituted based on good men making the best decision they can and God allowing them to succeed or fail. Because even in failure, there is much good to be had (refer to D&C 122 about experience).

[Wingnut]

Here's the most information I've been able to find on the subject so far: Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord: LDS Church Officially Approved Blogging Missionaries: New Pilot Program

This article is linked within the above blog post, and includes the following statement:

"Its guiding principle is simple: The missionaries selected to participate can go online if they don't have any effort more productive, such as teaching, following up on previous contacts, checking out referrals or meeting or working with members.

And this e-contacting is expected to be more productive than tracting, so the missionaries are allowed to go to the keyboard before going door-to-door."

[Gwen]

You may not go up to your missionaries at home and do that, but you've effectively done that to a missionary here.

that's my point. there are a lot of conversations i've had here i would not have in the presence of full time missionaries. not because it's a bad subject, just not what they need to be focused on (ex look at any breast feeding topic). i do respect their call and the needs they have to be somewhat "sheltered" from the cares of the world. when they are sent here then how am i supposed to do that?

when we have missionaries in the area and they come to my home i make changes for them. we turn off the tv, radio, etc. we focus on church related things, ppl in the area, etc. i do want to help them with their goals and call. the changes aren't because of anything "bad" we are doing, just not what they should be focused on. if they are on my fb or this forum then i have to start doing everything as if they are reading it?

and for the record the reservations were expressed when this thread was started by melissa, as members of this forum in discussion. He joined this discussion, i can't control that. i didn't go to his blog or anywhere seeking him out to express concerns.

[Gwen]

i would like to say so everyone knows i do support the missionaries. lol i think it would be neat if heather or whomever wants to set up a section of the site for the full time missionary blogs. at the top with forum, personal beliefs, mormon beliefs, etc. add a "full time missionary blogs" so anyone who is looking can find all of them... there are many listed on the link wing provided.

a major purpose of this site is to share the gospel and if that will help and be supportive of this new full time missionary program then i'm all for it.

my reservations are with sending full time missionaries to random general forums. i do support our leaders and the missionary efforts. i don't want that to be misunderstood with my expression of other feelings as well.

i think a section for them could be a nice addition to this site.

[Wingnut]

Another concern that I have, Gwen, is the appearance. I'm not crazy about the visual of fully-time missionaries in their badges and "uniforms" sitting around on a public computer for an hour or two every day. Members and non-members alike are likely to see them and think they're just wasting time, or not supposed to be there.

[ryanh]

I honestly don't understand your concerns Gwen. After all, missionaries are exposed to lewd magazine covers when shopping, or foul language when doing their laundry, or - heaven forbid - investigators living less than a gospel centered life! (and much, much more) Missionaries must be in the world, even if they are not of the world. Why would the online presence be any different? That makes no sense to me. They don't need to be sheltered and coddled to the point of being shackled into ineffectiveness.

In our changing society, the presence of proselytizing online is becoming more and more important. I applaud the move. Having positive search results come up in search engine listings prior to negative pages is worth far more to the spreading of the word than any physical contact a whole mission's worth of missionaries could do IMO! Thank God for inspired leadership!

[ryanh]

If we had a rule that everyone must use proper grammar, correct punctuation and spelling all the time we wouldn't have a website. I'd never return to a website if someone corrected my spelling and grammar so publically.

Perhaps we should read the spirit of the message and not be so nit picky about the small stuff. It starts to sound catty when people are corrected all the time.

Fools may mock (and as a result, mourn), but I tend to think when Mormon wrote such thoughts, he was taking his utmost care to do the best work he could do. I remember being taught as a missionary, and again in the Teacher Improvement course, presentation matters!

Elder Packer recounted:

“We scheduled zone conferences. For each one, Sister Packer baked a three-tiered cake, … decorated beautifully—thick, colorful layers of frosting, trimmed beautifully, and with ‘The Gospel’ inscribed across the top. When the missionaries were assembled, with some ceremony we brought the cake in. It was something to behold!

“As we pointed out that the cake represented the gospel, we asked, ‘Who would like to have some?’ There was always a hungry elder who eagerly volunteered. We called him forward and said, ‘We will serve you first.’ I then sank my fingers into the top of the cake and tore out a large piece. I was careful to clench my fist after tearing it out so that the frosting would ooze through my fingers, and then as the elders sat in total disbelief, I threw the piece of cake to the elder, splattering some frosting down the front of his suit. ‘Would anyone else like some cake?’ I inquired. For some reason, there were no takers.

“Then we produced a crystal dish, a silver fork, a linen napkin, and a beautiful silver serving knife. With great dignity I carefully cut a slice of the cake from the other side, gently set it on the crystal dish, and asked, ‘Would anyone like a piece of cake?’

“The lesson was obvious. It was the same cake in both cases, the same flavor, the same nourishment. The manner of serving either made it inviting, even enticing, or uninviting, even revolting. The cake, we reminded the missionaries, represented the gospel. How were they serving it?

“After the demonstration we had no difficulty—in fact, some considerable enthusiasm—for the effort to improve the teaching of the discussions. A few months later I thought the missionaries might well be reminded of the lesson, so I sent out a bulletin with a sketch of the cake.

“When I met the missionaries again, I said, ‘You received a bulletin recently, didn’t you?’

“ ‘Yes indeed.’

“ ‘And what did it say?’

“Invariably the missionaries said, ‘It reminded us to sharpen up on presenting our lessons and to do more studying, to learn the lessons carefully, and then to help one another in our procedure for having them taught.’

“ ‘You got all that out of a picture?’

“ ‘Yes, that’s one lesson we won’t soon forget!’

“I should, of course, add that I was very happy where necessary to pay the bill to clean the elder’s suit!” (Teach Ye Diligently, rev. ed. [1991], 270–71).

If missionaries are on-line, it would only seem appropriate that they ought to uphold a reputation (a part of which is grammar) that is the equivalent to the shirt/tie/suit/name tag of the real world. I don't think Wingnut was in the least in the wrong providing some gentle correction/reminder to a missionary that by his fruits he is judged by the world.

[Wingnut]

Thank you ryan. I have been known to nitpick grammar, etc. on this site, but I restrain myself far more often than I actually speak up. In this case, however, it becomes a credibility issue, as well as one of presentation, as you explained better than I did.

[beefche]

Hmm, just wondering how many people who post (including missionaries) may have some sort of disability or learning issue. There are other reasons why someone may not know capitalization, punctuation, grammar, etc. besides sloppiness or laziness.

[Heather]

I don't like the idea of questioning a program that has been created by the Brethren. I'm sure many question the idea traditional Missionary work, of going door to door. I wouldn't talk to a pair of strangers about religion who knocked on my door. I wouldn't even open it. So I for one am impressed with these new ways of finding, rather, a way that others can find the Missionaries instead of the other way around.

That being said, I think there needs to be some additional training in this case. I think Bigfoot has gotten a bit of a lesson from the forum members here, perhaps a bit over the top and could have been done more tactfully, but a lesson none the less.

If Missionaries are going to be doing more than just blogging (and I haven't heard anything about visiting forums as okay) then maybe there needs to be some additional training in Internet Etiquette for things like forums as well as best practices for driving traffic back to their blog. Spamming and other forum rules being broken can have a negative impact. So to forum members I suggest to bare in mind that these Missionaries may not have the same Internet experience you do, and could benefit from helpful suggestions, rather than attacks.