High Fantasy, D&D, MtG, your thoughts?

[CommanderSouth]

I have had issues since I was about 16 with actually enjoying RPGs, and fantasy based games. I had played NES RPGs like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy growing up, and I always loved the story and never really had an issue with it. When I started listening to my parents go on about Magic, and shunning all appearances of evil, I began to struggle with them a little. I never had issue with it before, but now, sometimes, I have trouble getting around this argument with games like Magic, or just any RPG with magic in it, both of which I really enjoy playing. With Magic, I justify myself by playing White decks, and I actually do avoid playing black as I don't like with dark, creepy, artwork or the feeling I get playing it, but soldiers and angels don't give me much trouble. I normally just don't think to much about it, but tonight I saw a D&D starter kit at the store, and I was thinking about buying it until my parents voice popped into my head, and I just don't have a good response.

But what frustrates me is these are the same parents who didn't let me watch TMNT when they found out Splinter meditated, or Smurfs when they realized Gargamel was a wizard. None of these made me want to do anything wrong, but it was still wrong in their eyes, which gives me trouble too. Even though I am old enough to make my own decisions, and I disagree with them on other things (like the gospel), I can't shake the feeling they may be right on this one, even though in my head I don't agree with them. For crying out loud, I can't even fully enjoy Tolkien, and depending on how I feel at the time, Lewis...

I feel like the glasses they look through on this has gotten stuck in my head and I can't see it from another viewpoint very easily.

What do you all think on the topic, and has there been any revealed doctrine on this type of thing.

Thanks for the input, and I hope that made sense.

[Kawazu]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I wish that I could say something to help you out.

To me, fantasy themes, (wizards, Bram Stoker's vampires, and so on), are just examples of good entertainment. I don't think Satan entices people to read Harry Potter--though I suspect Stephanie Meyer's success may be the fruit of a Faustian deal. More to the point, Chronicles of Narnia utilizes "magic" as a plot device and yet it remains a highly regarded Christian allegory. Furthermore, J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings also contains Christian symbolism. Most of the time, the meaning of books or movies is subjective. Walk away with whatever strikes you or just enjoy the adventure.

At any rate, as someone who enjoys fantasy literature, I would be interested to hear if reading books or watching movies involving hocus-pocus runs counter to Christian principles; what are your thoughts, everyone?

Thank you.

Regards,

Kawazu

Edited November 4, 2010 by Kawazu

[Bini]

I'm a lot more liberal regarding this stuff than you or your parents. I think what is being suggested, especially by them, is overkill in my opinion. But you gotta go with YOUR gut instincts. If this stuff does bother you, than simply don't become engaged in it. If this stuff bothers you simply because of the "guilt trip" your parents have put on your shoulders, then you need to make up your own mind and decide for yourself whether this is truly an issue or not. Me personally, not that big a deal. This'll probably go back to the whole "Is Coke and Pepsi OK to drink?" scenario. Some will say yes, others will say no. Pray about it and see what answer you get.

Best of luck figuring it out.

[Blackmarch]

I have had issues since I was about 16 with actually enjoying RPGs, and fantasy based games. I had played NES RPGs like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy growing up, and I always loved the story and never really had an issue with it. When I started listening to my parents go on about Magic, and shunning all appearances of evil, I began to struggle with them a little. I never had issue with it before, but now, sometimes, I have trouble getting around this argument with games like Magic, or just any RPG with magic in it, both of which I really enjoy playing. With Magic, I justify myself by playing White decks, and I actually do avoid playing black as I don't like with dark, creepy, artwork or the feeling I get playing it, but soldiers and angels don't give me much trouble. I normally just don't think to much about it, but tonight I saw a D&D starter kit at the store, and I was thinking about buying it until my parents voice popped into my head, and I just don't have a good response.

But what frustrates me is these are the same parents who didn't let me watch TMNT when they found out Splinter meditated, or Smurfs when they realized Gargamel was a wizard. None of these made me want to do anything wrong, but it was still wrong in their eyes, which gives me trouble too. Even though I am old enough to make my own decisions, and I disagree with them on other things (like the gospel), I can't shake the feeling they may be right on this one, even though in my head I don't agree with them. For crying out loud, I can't even fully enjoy Tolkien, and depending on how I feel at the time, Lewis...

I feel like the glasses they look through on this has gotten stuck in my head and I can't see it from another viewpoint very easily.

What do you all think on the topic, and has there been any revealed doctrine on this type of thing.

Thanks for the input, and I hope that made sense.

if you feel that it draws you away from God then it is probably good to avoid them. The concepts in themselves are not any more evil than any other fairy tale, however what a person does with them does matter, as well as what kind of people you participate with.

D&D can be good clean fun, or it can be real nasty.. it mainbly depends on the type of people you do it with. With MTG probably the worst you'll get are some racy pictures or some rather nasty zombie ones.

If you feel uncomfortable with those things your parents forbade you, there are other similar games that are not magic/fantasy theme oriented. ( i know there's a star wars one, and a battletech one)

[Tarnished]

When I was a kid my parents were heavily against D&D and related things. However they did let my brother collect Magic cards. When I got married my husband finally talked me into gaming and we joined a group consisting of mainly LDS members. Our first group was awesome and when we moved we found another group that was made up of only LDS members. Our gaming nights were great because it got us our of our little hidey-hole appartment and out into the world where we socialized for the night. Some nights we never even got into the campaign, instead we all sat around talking and socialzing. It was great!

I think when it comes to gaming and fantasy and such that you really have to take it in perspective. What are you getting out of it? What is your purpose for participating in it? Do you game for the social aspect, or are you focusing on the magic? If your purpose for participating in fantasy related things and activities is to learn more about magic and incorporate it into your life then yes you should probably stop. But if your reason behind why you participate in those things is because you enjoy the social aspect or you like the world that your imagination creates or you just like the fact that your imagination runs wild with fantasy themed things then I think you are just fine.

I think some of these things can be taken too far. For example, though I have never tried it, I think LARP (Live Action Role Play) is taking it to the next level. Instead of saying what your character is doing you are actually acting out what your character is doing. I think reality and fantasy can be easily confused in such situations. And it is from such situations that we get stories of one person harming or killing another or even themselves. Moderation in all things is a good way of looking at it.

[Jamie123]

But what frustrates me is these are the same parents who didn't let me watch TMNT when they found out Splinter meditated, or Smurfs when they realized Gargamel was a wizard.

The Smurfs were good. But Gargamel was bad.

[Guest Alana]

I wasn't allowed to watch Smurfs either! The reason was because my dad said they were communists, but that doesn't mean much to a 6 year old.

Maybe it's like beards. Beards mean different things to different people. To some, they are an act of rebellion, shunning society and it's normal-ness. A way to stick it to the man. To me they are something that older men do, and that's that. I think it depends on each person, what it means to them, etc.

Oh and as far as Splinter meditating. What's wrong with that:P My patriarchal blessing specifically says to learn how to meditate and do it often. A little more self reflection could be good for some people. An other example of what it means to you, and what you do with it.

[rameumptom]

You are 24 years old. As an adult, you can choose for yourself (unless you still live in your parent's basement, then they have a voice in this).

I think you have to consider two things: violence level and addiction level. If something is overtly violent with no redeeming quality (scriptures are violent, but with a purpose), then none of us should have anything to do with it.

Secondly, are you addicted to the game(s)? I play DnD once a month on a Saturday with my adult son and some friends. Yes, it would be fun to play more often than that, but 1) I don't need the addiction, and 2) I have more important things to do with my time.

When I am the DM, I prefer people not playing evil characters. When my kids were younger, I would not allow them to play evil characters at all.

[NeuroTypical]

This whole notion that it's bad to let active imaginations explore good and evil through roleplay, has never made any sense to me. Ever since my kids could walk, we've been taking turns being the bad evil guy chasing the good innocent guy through the house. Here's what it looks like:

Me: "I'm gonna eat you - RAAAARGH!"

Daughter: "EEEEEEEKKKKK!"

[chase ensues through the house, until daughter is cornered in the bathroom or something.]

Daughter: "I eet you rarghhh!"

Me: "Oh no! A Demon baby! Run!"

[chase ensues in the opposite direction until I'm cornered]

I can't really tell the difference between that, and roleplaying games where folks pretend out scenes of good and evil, bravery and cowardice, nobility of spirit and debasement of body. As we mature and grow up, the depth and complexity of our personalities and character also mature. We're here on earth to choose between good and evil, having both of them placed before us. It seems like a waste of time to fret about pentagrams and meditating smurfs and +4 rods of beheading and whatnot.

I mean yeah, if someone is giving up a real life in favor of a fake one, that's an issue. Not an issue confined to roleplaying games or MMPORG's either.

LM

Edited November 4, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[ADoyle90815]

I'm a gamer geek myself, and when I've done the LARP thing, there has always been a rule against weapons of any kind, and physical fighting. In fact, I've known several gamers who are still LDS and very devout about their beliefs, and they are able to enjoy a gaming session. As long as one doesn't let their gaming life interfere with their regular life, then it's harmless. If someone doesn't remember that it's all fiction, then it can become a problem, such as if one tries to cast spells.

[mnn727]

If it bothers YOU then stop, frankly though most people can recognize fantasy and keep it seperate from reality. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with fantasy and entertainment

I played D&D for years and am currently playing World of Warcraft (and I am in my 50's), to me the worst that can be said of it is that it wastes time that you could be doing other things and I am very careful to avoid this.

[CommanderSouth]

I don't think I could get addicted to any MMORPG at this point, I have tried them all and nothing sticks. Mind you, I have a 65 Priest I am trying to level before Cataclysm, but even then, I only play a few hours most days, and some not at all. If I get addicted to anything it's usually a single player game, but those are only 20-40ish hours and then they're done. And that's something I haven't done in a while.

As far as Magic goes, it's very much the same, I play my friend in restaurants and do some Friday or Saturday night Magic, but that's about it.

I think I will probably pray about it, try to better understand the meaning of shunning the appearance of evil and call it a day

But if anyone has insights yet, please keep them coming, I greatly appreciate it.

[marshac]

I had an employee once that was a hardcore D&D LARP gamer- he would get together with friends and they would do whatever the heck it is that they do.... he would go to conferences, meet ups, etc. Eventually his desire for fantasy spilled over into the old "adult" section on craigslist where he would spend a decent amount of his paycheck on women.... and not the kind of women he would want to bring home to meet his wife. All of this came out one day while reviewing some 'interesting' entries in the firewall log and he was let go from his job- from what I understand a divorce followed soon after.

I guess my point is that if you LARP too much and live in a fantasy world too much, the bright lines that separate reality from fantasy can become less clear and you run the risk of making poor choices.

[PrincessMe]

That reminds me of a time when I went through a really religious phase myself. I had a parent more religious than me on top of that. He was so mad when I let my friend borrow a fiction story about some witches from the library on my card, and said he thought Harry Potter was bad as well. My friend is not a servant of Satan and never leaned in that direction either. She just enjoys the books. Also, my fiance loves D&D and Fantasy RPG's (as well as shooters and Si-Fi), and he is one of the best people I have ever met. Besides, I am sure we would have a lot more evil around if simply reading Harry Potter or watching a Disney film was enough to bring us further from God and closer to the dark arts.

Entertainment is just for fun. Don't give it another thought. It is okay to enjoy yourself sometimes. when you aren't hurting yourself or anyone around you.

[RachelleDrew]

Meh, I play D&D (actually Pathfinder, because I hate the most recent version of D&D). I don't see any harm in it whatsoever, although that may depend heavily on your group and what kind of campaigns your group runs. My group is getting ready to play a game called Shadowrun, which i'm REALLY excited about.

For me it's a way to play fantasy games with friends without being plopped in front of a screen for hours on end, communicating with my friends by typing on a board.

I play WoW too, again I take no issue with it morally.

[Jamie123]

I wasn't allowed to watch Smurfs either! The reason was because my dad said they were communists, but that doesn't mean much to a 6 year old.

LOL - I've heard the Smurfs/Communists theory before. Smurfland represents the ideal Communistic society, threatened by the greedy bourgeoisie (Gargamel), supported by the oppressed proletariat (Azrael).

But remember though....the Smurfs were good! (You've no excuse for forgetting that, because they reminded you at the start of each episode!)

[Dravin]

I wasn't allowed to watch Smurfs either!

I had a neighbor who wouldn't let her kid watch Disney's Hercules because it was pagan.

[Jamie123]

I had a neighbor who wouldn't let her kid watch Disney's Hercules because it was pagan.

LOL - I've heard of parents not allowing their kids to watch Hercules because it distorts the original pagan stories so badly. In the original Hercules (or Heracles) is the son of Zeus by the mortal Princess Alcmena, not the goddess Hera as in the movie, and he is not associated with the flying horse Pegasus. Pegasus was ridden by Perseus, another son of Zeus by a mortal mother Danae.

I've always thought Disney's Hercules chimed rather well with Mormon thinking. Hercules is the son of a god, whose aim is to rejoin his father in heaven, and to do so he must "go the distance".

[NeuroTypical]

If you want to see communism, take a look at the kid's TV show Thomas and Friends.

* Centrally planned society.

* A revered central leader (Sir Topham Hatt).

* The greatest aspiration an engine can have, is to be useful. They live and die by how useful Hatt thinks they are.

* Morality and character are only important to the extent that they're recognized by Hatt and the other engines as making useful contributions to the society.

* Total, absolute submission to the state and it's goals is revered. Stories about how bad things happen when someone acts in their own self-interests abound.

Now, all that said, my kids liked watching it when they were smaller. We have several DVD's and umpteen Thomas train and track accessories. No, they didn't get turned into communists by watching the show. That would be a stupid thing to worry about.

LM

[mnn727]

I guess my point is that if you LARP too much and live in a fantasy world too much, the bright lines that separate reality from fantasy can become less clear and you run the risk of making poor choices.

I couldn't disagree more.

Are there some people that will have a problem? yes of course, but the vast majority of people understand that a game is a game and reality is reality.

For everyone that has a problem you have thousands or tens of thousands that have no problems at all.

Now if someone thinks they have a problem with it then yes they should give it up, but for someone to lump every player into the same catagory is just insane.

[mordorbund]

If you want to see communism, take a look at the kid's TV show Thomas and Friends.

* Centrally planned society.

* A revered central leader (Sir Topham Hatt).

* The greatest aspiration an engine can have, is to be useful. They live and die by how useful Hatt thinks they are.

* Morality and character are only important to the extent that they're recognized by Hatt and the other engines as making useful contributions to the society.

* Total, absolute submission to the state and it's goals is revered. Stories about how bad things happen when someone acts in their own self-interests abound.

Now, all that said, my kids liked watching it when they were smaller. We have several DVD's and umpteen Thomas train and track accessories. No, they didn't get turned into communists by watching the show. That would be a stupid thing to worry about.

LM

So, to sum up, "Communism is for babies."

[Jamie123]

* A revered central leader (Sir Topham Hatt).

"Sir Topham Hatt" is an American euphemism. In Britain we call him by his original title and epithet: "The Fat Controller".