Um, can he do this?


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I was going to say the same thing that ryanh said, if he is just coming off disfellowship status, it is highly unlikely that he is going to be married in the temple so quickly. He may have a thought about what he would "want" to do but the reality of that happening could be quite different. That is what it sounds like is going on here.

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So my DH shared this one with me. This one hits home on several different levels for us as a family. I wanted to come on and share my opinions with you too.

a.k.a Tewonda

Thank you for your thoughts. First of all, I said my piece to the church leadership regarding the behavior of my ex husband over a year ago. If he chooses to hustle and fanagle his way into the temple then that isn't my problem. I won't pretend to act like an innocent in the demise of my marriage, but i'm also not going to subject myself to his games again. If I were to approach his bishop with information regarding my ex's personal life then that would just be me immersing myself in his personal issues again. I have no desire to do that ever again.

It is my problem when he choses to involve my kid. However, it's not going to happen now so it really is a non-issue at this point. I'm glad that it was settled before anything actually took place.

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I didn't read all of the responses, but getting sealed is just a church thing, so it is separate from the law. As long as the church lets him, he can.

It's obvious that you didn't read all the responses. No, he cannot. The church does not allow it.

Also, the law doesn't allow churches to perform recorded religious ordinances on a minor without the consent of the parents.

And it's not "Just a church thing" fyi.

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Thanks everyone so much for your responses. I am so grateful that the members of the church are still supportive of me despite my leave from the church. It is a huge testament to your character as Christians.

I am going to call my ex's bishop, he aught to be reasonable when I discuss this with him. I just now tried calling their ward but no answer/no machine. I'll keep trying. He is a very nice man, i'm sure that he will be understanding and sympathetic to the issue. To be completely fair, I don't believe my ex's future wife has any clue about the deception. I am pretty sure my ex told her I would be cool with it. She is certainly not the type to do something behind my back.

I agreed when we divorced that I would be supportive of my son's involvement of the church (so long as he desired to remain active) and that I would refrain from trashing the church doctrine in front of my kid. I have maintained that standard since the divorce was final, but my support of my son's involvement in the church does not mean that I am fine with a sealing to a woman who isn't his mother.

That upsets me, big time. I can't really explain why, and i'm sure it seems kind of silly because i'm not a member any longer. It's just a lot, his disfellowshipment was literally just lifted this October. I should have known to expect this soon, but I just didn't think about it. I'm kind of blindsided.

On another note, the SP is the one who issues recommends for sealings, is he not? Should I try contacting him too?

Rachelle, your situation may be resolved, but it would seem that you still need to have a sit-down talk with your ex’s wife, tell her what you want AND don’t want. This way she’ll know that it is going against your wishes for her to be sealed to YOUR son.

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However, it's not going to happen now so it really is a non-issue at this point. I'm glad that it was settled before anything actually took place.

i'm glad too. :)

i hate to instill doubt in anyone about the church but playing dumb to what can really happen vs what policy is doesn't help anyone. nothing on this earth is perfect, it's foolish to pretend it is. i'm glad it's resolved like it should be. also means my experiences are an even greater minority to how things sometimes happen.

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Rachelle, your situation may be resolved, but it would seem that you still need to have a sit-down talk with your ex’s wife, tell her what you want AND don’t want. This way she’ll know that it is going against your wishes for her to be sealed to YOUR son.

I agree. I was thinking of this earlier. If you have a good relationship with the fiancee, Rachelle, you should talk with her specifically. Don't trash your ex to her, but lay down some ground rules. Obviously your ex is manipulative, so try some one-on-one time with her in addition to your arrangements with him.

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I didn't read all of the responses, but getting sealed is just a church thing, so it is separate from the law. As long as the church lets him, he can.

Not if the divorce court says "you can't". This happens pretty routinely in Utah. In fact, a couple of years ago Judge Leslie Lewis prohibited an eight-year-old's father from baptizing him where Mom said no. (That in itself is pretty routine, but Lewis went on to describe it as a "dunking" which got her removed from the bench next election.)

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I agree, and she is a very understanding person who isn't going to take it the wrong way if I approach her about it. I think i'm going to have the two of them over for dinner sometime to set up some ground rules and create some boundaries. I'm sure she would love the opportunity to do so from her end as well.

Basically from what I gather she had no idea I was against it. She said it was completely up to me and she was game for whatever I was comfortable with. I knew she wasn't involved in this as a deceitful party.

I got a hold of the leadership, and they were not aware that my wishes were against the sealing. They assured me that it would not happen unless I saw them in person and agreed otherwise.

It's a small ward, and unfortunately things don't always get done according to protocol due to that. I'm glad I got to speak with them before hand, because it's very likely that they would have not pressed the issue with my ex and not bothered seeking my permission (because they thought they already had it.) Thanks to everyone who suggested I call, it was obviously the right thing to do to settle the issue.

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It's obvious that you didn't read all the responses.

Lol. XD First part of my response give that away?

No, he cannot. The church does not allow it. Also, the law doesn't allow churches to perform recorded religious ordinances on a minor without the consent of the parents.

Unless for some reason they thought you agreed, in which case, why not? If it is against the law, does the sealing not count if they find out later that they didn't have your consent?

(I really don't know the answer to that... but I have a feeling that it would need to be undone somehow).

And it's not "Just a church thing" fyi.

No other church does it and it has no bearing on the law. Because it doesn't impact the law or society, it is contained within the church. Everything else is based on personal beliefs, but separate from that, it is all an emotional deal.
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I agree, and she is a very understanding person who isn't going to take it the wrong way if I approach her about it. I think i'm going to have the two of them over for dinner sometime to set up some ground rules and create some boundaries. I'm sure she would love the opportunity to do so from her end as well.

I don't know the extent of your contact with her up to this point, but I think that inviting them over to dinner would also be a nice gesture of good will, and would demonstrate to her that you bear her no ill will.

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I'm glad you're resolving the issue. Even though you're not a member anymore, I can see why that would be hurtful, as if they're training your son to believe that his step-mom is his real mom because she's his mom for eternity, but you're not. I've known of plenty of cases where kids aren't sealed to step parents even if that parent is pretty much 100% not involved in their lives. The church always obtains permission if it's going to be done. My friend's ex had almost 0 contact with their son, but she couldn't be sealed to him until he gave permission or terminated his parental rights. Even after he terminated his parental rights, she still did the kind thing and asked him, plus she sends him yearly updates about their son.

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Rachelle you have so much strength. That's great that you're able to communicate with your ex's fiancee and discuss this very sensitive issue. I don't know if I'd be as strong. I'm not knowledgeable on the topic but it seems that you've already received some answers. Hope this can be settled.

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No. I asked why can't the church do it if they think that they have your consent. :)

Well, for starters, the Church kind of discourages the sealing of children to non-biological and non-adoptive parents. Then there's the fact that they can't be sure that doing so doesn't violate a custody agreement, so the written consent is a way for the Church to CYA. On top of that, it's just rude to perform religious ordinances for a child without explicit knowledge and consent of the legal custodians. I don't think we should be all that anxious to create ill will for the Church.

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Well, for starters, the Church kind of discourages the sealing of children to non-biological and non-adoptive parents. Then there's the fact that they can't be sure that doing so doesn't violate a custody agreement, so the written consent is a way for the Church to CYA. On top of that, it's just rude to perform religious ordinances for a child without explicit knowledge and consent of the legal custodians. I don't think we should be all that anxious to create ill will for the Church.

I wasn't trying to create ill will. All I said is that it is up to the church to make sure that everything is legal, and if they simply ask, they have done their part in the eyes of the law.

It was a question I honestly didn't know the answer to. I appreciate the fact that you did give me one. :)

P.S. Not being rude seems to not be a real motivator anymore, but I am glad that the church actually has things in place to prevent it. Thank you, again. You are the only one who answered.

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This topic applies to me as well. Before being sealed to my children, my husband adopted them, and we had to bring the adoption paperwork, and their new birth certificates to the temple. The temple let us know, several times, that the certified documents had to be present before the sealing could be performed.

I think that the local leaders being under the impression that consent was given is a very serious issue, and hopefully they seemed to have learned something from this eye-opening situation. They should now be aware of exactly how important it is to verify consent for ordinances.

IF/When it got/gets to the temple, however, I really don't think it would have happened without a serious review of the paperwork, including permission from a non-present biological parent. I'm just judging that based on my personal experience, though, and those of my friends under this same situation. (They also had their children adopted by the new spouse)

I do also believe that we are not sealed to anyone that we cannot stand to be with for eternity. No ordinance can take away our agency. The eternity with someone else is supposed to be part of the blessing, not a punishment.

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