Ex-wife doesn't want step-son to attend church


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I hope someone can help me with a little a perspective. Here's the deal: My husband used to be a deacon in the Southern Baptist church and married to the Preacher's daughter. They divorced when my step-son was 2. He is now 12. We have been married for 7 years and my husband has been a convert for 3. We have my step-son from Thurs-Sat night so Sundays have never really been an issue. When we have had him on the occasional Sunday and taken him to church, his mother was hysterical. For those who may not know....Mormons = VERY BAD CULT to Southern Baptists.

It just so happens that we have him this weekend and my step-son, with his mom beside him, told husband that he did not want to come visit if he had to go to church. Also told his father that if he took him home he would feel like he is choosing church over the extra time he could be spending with him.

My poor husband is so afraid that his son is going to resent him, he is in knots. He was just going to stay home with him but I said he needed to show his son church was important regardless of the church. He says I don't understand because he already has so little time with him and doesn't want him to resent him. I want to be a "good understanding wife" but I think he needs to not let the kid make the choices. He's 12, he'll go to church and it won't kill him. I see the emotional power-plays but my husband can't get over the fear of his son resenting him. What do I do?

Anyone else ever been through something like this?

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Also told his father that if he took him home he would feel like he is choosing church over the extra time he could be spending with him.

While not exactly mature you can throw that right back into his face. Why does he hate church more than he loves his father (for at least sacrament). Sounds like the kid is playing power games to me. What's next? If you don't go to the movies with me on Sunday you don't love me? If you won't buy me an iPad you love money more than me?

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I totally agree. We can all see this.....except my husband. His parents divorced when he was 11 and he and his brother were the boys with their bags packed waiting on a Dad that never showed up. He has major resentment toward his father hence, his fear of his son resenting him. And he is nothing like his father. He talks to his son everyday and sees him constantly. How do you help someone see something when they are too emotionally invested? He just tells me I don't understand and things are different because he doesn't see his son everyday like he does our girls.

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Could possibly go to a Baptist Church on the Sundays you have him?

Good idea. Shows the son a respect of belief and allows husband to suss out whether it is a power-play by a child who doesn't with to be at church in general for the lack of excitement, or if he has a problem with the LDS church itself.

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Alternate idea: Take him at his word that his main issue is being together with dad. Ergo, he will be expected to accompany his dad to Sacrament Meeting; however, neither he nor Dad will attend the Church meetings where they cannot be together (i.e. Sunday school and priesthood).

As always, Dad needs to check the divorce decree to see who's actually calling the shots in this kind of situation.

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Another idea:

Find a non-denominational church with a Saturday night meeting. Say you will take him to that if he agrees to go to Sacrament meeting the next day.

BTW, he has been coached by his mother.. 12 yo don't come up with this...

Also told his father that if he took him home he would feel like he is choosing church over the extra time he could be spending with him.

on their own.

Or you could just tell the mother you will start taking him to the local Kingdom Hall since she doesn't want him attending "Mormon" meetings. ;)

Edited by BookofMormonLuvr
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I hope someone can help me with a little a perspective. Here's the deal: My husband used to be a deacon in the Southern Baptist church and married to the Preacher's daughter. They divorced when my step-son was 2. He is now 12. We have been married for 7 years and my husband has been a convert for 3.

my husband was sealed in the temple with his first wife, after their son was born she left. they divorced before the baby was yr. the ex lived with her parents for a long time (they are members and took my stepson to church with them when he was there, with her consent). the ex agreed to allow him to be baptized at 8. then she went anti against the church, for a long time she just didn't attend. she started taking specific actions to interfere with his attending church. she doesn't have an alternate church she wants him to go to, just doesn't want to encourage anything that is important to dad (and she hates the church so 2 birds with 1 stone). things did get intense enough that when in court we requested to have it in the documents that dad gets the say in religious instructions, his church records stay with dad regardless of residence, etc. the mom can not interfere with it, she is not required to take him to church when he is there but she can not stop him if he desires to go and she can not teach against it or take him to another church. part of what allowed us to get the courts to give us this request was that when they married she was active in the church, they were sealed, there was an implied consent and agreement that the children they would have would be raised in the church, she had allowed him to go to church for all those yrs without complaint and she didn't have an alternate religion of her own she wanted to share with him.

your shoe is on the other foot. he was active in the southern baptist church, he married the preacher's daughter (i'm guessing in that church). there is an implied consent and agreement there on how you will raise the kids. for 9 yrs there was no issue with your stepson going to the southern baptist church, all this has come about in the last 3 yrs. at an age when the child is old enough to have some input on how he feels. i can kinda see the upset that the mother has, especially knowing the feelings from southern baptists toward mormons. off hand, though i hate to say it, you should respect the mom and kid's wishes. what is different is your husband does have a religion he professes and every parent has a right to share that with their kids. odds are she is teaching him some pretty anti mormon material and that will interfere with the father's right to be a father.

i would guess, based on the very little that is here, that the best resolve is that each parent has the right to teach what they feel is right. both should be prohibited from teaching anything "anti" about the other church which would include telling the kid what "the other church teaches". teach your own church and let the other teach theirs. as for if the child actually attends or not that needs to be negotiated between father and son (or mother and son if he's there), without the presence or influence of the other parent. that gives the child the best chance of making his own informed decision. (if your default paperwork is anything like ours was all that is pretty much already there.)

We have my step-son from Thurs-Sat night so Sundays have never really been an issue. When we have had him on the occasional Sunday and taken him to church, his mother was hysterical. For those who may not know....Mormons = VERY BAD CULT to Southern Baptists.

It just so happens that we have him this weekend and my step-son, with his mom beside him, told husband that he did not want to come visit if he had to go to church. Also told his father that if he took him home he would feel like he is choosing church over the extra time he could be spending with him.

this bothers me a little. due to my own personal experiences i would be concerned with alienation on the mom's part. dad needs to talk to him without mom around, best if it's over a long visit so there is time for the son to relax at your house, have the conversation, and then have some more fun bonding time so that he doesn't leave on a tense note.

My poor husband is so afraid that his son is going to resent him, he is in knots. He was just going to stay home with him but I said he needed to show his son church was important regardless of the church. He says I don't understand because he already has so little time with him and doesn't want him to resent him. I want to be a "good understanding wife" but I think he needs to not let the kid make the choices. He's 12, he'll go to church and it won't kill him. I see the emotional power-plays but my husband can't get over the fear of his son resenting him. What do I do?

Anyone else ever been through something like this?

i think you need to respect your husband's choice with his son. you don't understand about how little time he has. you can try really hard to relate and understand but he's not your son. i would suggest that dad take that 3 hours and go for a walk at the park, something he feels is appropriate on a sunday, take the time to talk to him. ask him questions. how he feels about the baptist church? what he likes about it, what he doesn't like, etc. ask him why he feels uncomfortable going to church with dad? find out what he's heard about mormons. i would not do all this at once, don't bring a list of questions. it's most important for dad to just talk general principles, not specific faith. what do you believe about god? the afterlife? sundays? etc. it opens discussions where dad can share his beliefs without being in church. right now his relationship with his son is most important. if that is good then the son will be open to hearing personal beliefs later in life. if he alienates his son now then not only has he lost a son for here but the son will never care what the dad believes.

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I agree with BookofMormonLuvr. Its highly likely that his mother is coaching him. If your husband has developed a good relatioinship with his son thus far, its likely that the child wouldn't have said anything if his mother hadn't been right there with him.

Kids are smart. He knows you and your husband. You are an example of Mormons for him.

Read through the divorce and custody agreements. There is something in there that should say who has the final say in situations like this.

My personal opinion is that your parent time is yours and your ex's time is her's. You shouldn't dictate to her and she shouldn't dictate to you. Your son needs to get to know his father and his father's religion is part of the package. There are alternatives. Instead of a hard line which will cause contention. Approach this with love. On the weekends he is there with your family, I think its ok for your husband to stay home from church with his son. Family comes first, always. He can do things at home to teach his son about the LDS faith. With lots of love, time and maturity, your stepson will come around.

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On the weekends he is there with your family, I think its ok for your husband to stay home from church with his son. Family comes first, always. He can do things at home to teach his son about the LDS faith. With lots of love, time and maturity, your stepson will come around.

Good point. You don't have to go to a building to have church- there is no rule against church at home on those weekends. You could agree not to take him to the building, but still let him know there will be church at home. Sings some songs, prepare a lesson. Basically, FHE on Sunday morning.

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I agree with BookofMormonLuvr. Its highly likely that his mother is coaching him. If your husband has developed a good relatioinship with his son thus far, its likely that the child wouldn't have said anything if his mother hadn't been right there with him.

Kids are smart. He knows you and your husband. You are an example of Mormons for him.

Read through the divorce and custody agreements. There is something in there that should say who has the final say in situations like this.

My personal opinion is that your parent time is yours and your ex's time is her's. You shouldn't dictate to her and she shouldn't dictate to you. Your son needs to get to know his father and his father's religion is part of the package. There are alternatives. Instead of a hard line which will cause contention. Approach this with love. On the weekends he is there with your family, I think its ok for your husband to stay home from church with his son. Family comes first, always. He can do things at home to teach his son about the LDS faith. With lots of love, time and maturity, your stepson will come around.

I don't know that I agree with all of this. It's also quite possible that in the lifetime of attending a southern baptist church, he has become convinced that the LDS religion is false and actually feels uncomfortable attending.

Also, if his objection wasn't genuine, it probably wouldn't take a whole lot to figure that out.

Lastly, there may be legal restrictions on who makes religious decisions. Divorce can be really messy, and so "his time is his and her time is hers" often doesn't really apply.

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The leap that a mother is coaching a twelve year old is rather paranoid and even offensive. At twelve, I was quite aware that despite questions about Mormonism, I sure as heck knew all other religions were bogus. By 12, my own children had formed pretty solid opinions about religion--except for my oldest, i was inactive by then, though my wife wasn't, and we very deliberately made sure that they could choose what path they wanted with their agency (this was something I resented as a child that age--my parents and the church gave lip service to free agency, but didn't seem to actually grant me any.)

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So divorce degrees violate the Establishment Cause on a regular basis? Interesting.

You're ringing a dim bell in my head.

You see these kinds of things in divorce decrees (at least, in UT) quite often, but I do seem to remember someone once arguing to me that--if the parties took the time to actually fight it out--probably the provision would be struck down as unconstitutional.

But they still turn up--mostly, in cases where the terms of the divorce were mutually agreed upon.

EDIT: Actually, strike the above about religion provisions being unconstitutional--I was thinking of a different provision in one of the cases I was doing. You can Google and find several articles about religious upbringing provisions in divorce decrees.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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The leap that a mother is coaching a twelve year old is rather paranoid and even offensive.

Actually its not paranoid and I'm sorry if you find it offensive. There are two divorces in my family. My brother's ex-wife is the poster child for manipulation. Especially with the children. My sister's ex-husband is doing the same thing but he's more openly manipulative.

On my husband's side of the family there are 4 divorces. All have the same issues. Lying and manipulation.

In my personal experience, not so far fetched afterall.

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maternal alienation is a huge problem. i don't have the links off hand but i've done a lot of research on it due to our own situation. there is evidence to suggest that a portion of dead beat dads are that way because of alienation on the mother's part. i think many women do it and don't even realize it. others are very calculated in it. it's something our courts need to really acknowledge and crack down on.

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maternal alienation is a huge problem. i don't have the links off hand but i've done a lot of research on it due to our own situation. there is evidence to suggest that a portion of dead beat dads are that way because of alienation on the mother's part. i think many women do it and don't even realize it. others are very calculated in it. it's something our courts need to really acknowledge and crack down on.

I agree 100%. It really is an issue. My mother does that to my sisters. They both hate my dad because she talks so disgustingly about him. He isn't around because she doesn't let him be. He tries to call and send letters and my sisters never get the messages or if they do it is "Your dad called" with massive undertones of "Not that you should care".

To think that you can't coach a 12 year old is nieve.

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I am not saying a 12 year old cannot be coached but to assume he is because the father disagrees with what he says is insulting to the child and shows a massive disrespect on part of the father.

Fathers can be every bit as manipulative as mothers, to assume otherwise isn't just naive is plain stupid.

A father who puts church above the welfare of his own son is a self-righteous twit.

I've a divorced colleague with a ten year old who has said almost exactly the same words about the rare times he has to work on the weekends when he has her. There is no coaching; it's a ten year expressing her desire to see and be with her father. That is natural and normal for a child.

In this case, the words used by the boy may be something he heard his mother say, but to disregard his sentiments shows a frightening cluelessness. Family DOES come first and missing meetings in favor of retaining a bond with one's children is worth the sacrifice. Pushing your children away by sticking to dogma isn't.

Edited by Jazok
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Hey Guys,

I appreciate all the input. All this ended up being too much drama so I took matters into my own hands. I picked step-son up by myself on Friday and had my own little talk with him. I told him that is Dad was really upset and that he was afraid of him hating him. SS said that he didn't say that he would rather go home. Turns out his Mom said "You just want to come home and stay with Uncle Joey if you have to go to church right?" And of course, he said Yes. I told him he needs to have a talk with his Dad then. He still really didn't want go because his Mom and Grandparents (the Pastor) have put such fear in him I think he really thinks he may burst into flames for even stepping foot in the building.

Now, this became a power struggle with the ex. My husband, who never want to ruffle feathers, just wanted to stay home this one Sunday and then make sure this situation doesn't happen again. Tired of fighting and the drama, I did the one thing I could do..............I made everyone go to Catholic Mass! It wasn't the Mormon Church and it wasn't the Baptist Church and it I suppose it was my own little passive-aggressive stance because the Baptists don't really like Catholics either. :)

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SuzyQ,

I hope your stepson will talk with his Dad. Unfortunately the situation with his mother and maternal grandparents isn't going to change. This kid is going to continue to be bombarded with negative comments about the LDS religion. It would probably be helpful if both you and your husband could show him why people are afraid. A 12yo is old enough to understand an explanation about prejudice and bigotry.

This is a church of converts. Even those born in the church have to be converted to enjoy the fullness of the blessings Christ offers us. You and your husband have a wonderful opportunity here to teach by word and by example. This is an opportunity that wouldn't occur without the contention.

Best Wishes,

applepansy

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As a dad who may soon be in this situation. Here is my take on the whole thing. First when my son(s) and daughter(s) are with me if it is Sunday then we will go to Sacrament meeting and then to our classes. We are all LDS so this is very different from the original post but somethings are the same.

The kids need to realize that if they don't go to church, don't care what church because of some issue real or other wise they are doing a power game.

If the child doesn't want to attend church then the statement from dad should be, How sad as after church we were going out for dinner and you won't be able to attend because you didn't go to church. Let the child know that there is a peanut butter sandwich and a glass of milk in the fridge and that is the end of it.

We have to allow our children to make mistakes and enjoy the consequences so that they grow up realizing that yes they can not do something but there is a consequence of not doing it and they have to live with that consequence.

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