Job openings available

[rameumptom]

Job openings available:

Do you like to look at naked pictures? Do you like being able to grope people AND get paid for it? Then look no further! The TSA is looking for a few deviants to join their airport security program. Decent pay and the perks, well, we've already mentioned many of them. Apply today!

[pam]

Bad Ram bad.

[FunkyTown]

Meh. I don't mind the whole thing. If some overweight security guard sitting behind a desk feels the need to get a look at what I'm packing under my garments, as long as I don't have to know about it... Let the guy have a thrill.

I'm going on a flight this Saturday and I plan on shakin' it the whole way through security, humming Bro'Sis seminal hit: Wiggle it.

[rameumptom]

Bad Ram bad.

Why? Have your plans of applying now changed because of my joke?

[pam]

Oh you mean this was a joke? Shoot..I was kind of interested in a career change.

[mnn727]

The sad thing is that what they are doing is not making us any safer.

checking every 10th or 20th person with no basis for it other than a random number coming up is purely dumb and has no basis in real security.

It may make the masses feel good, but it won't stop anyone determined to bring something they shouldn't.

I'm a 54 year old, pudgy, grey haired, white anglo saxon male - who was picked to go through the "special screening" last time I flew -- why? how did that make anyone safe?

How about that young middle eastern fellow wearing traditional garb that walked right through before me?

Sorry but how many pudgy 54 year olds have blown up planes compared to how many young middle eastern guys?

Profiling works - ask Israel. Israel has not had plane downed, yet they don't do the stupid things we do.

and no I am not a racist - I am a realist. I have nothing against Muslims or middle eastern people, but they are the only ones that have ever flown our planes into buildings.

</rant>

Edited November 18, 2010 by mnn727

[Guest Alana]

I got a pat down the other day at the airport. It was because I was wearing a moby wrap . They didn't do a full pat down, just the wrap. Of course they let the dude with a closed trench coat behind me go without a word. I was ok with me getting a pat down. I wouldn't have done the body scanner or let my infant do either if they had asked, but it doesn't seem they ask, they just lead you over there.

[pam]

How about that young middle eastern fellow wearing traditional garb that walked right through before me?

Oh please..so every middle eastern fellow wearing traditional garb is immediately suspect?

[pam]

I asked a coworker whose husband works for the TSA in SLC and she told me they choose a number each day. Some days it's 10 some days it's 9. Every 10th person they pull out of line. Unless they have a reason to suspect someone else. Then they will pull that person out.

[pam]

and no I am not a racist - I am a realist. I have nothing against Muslims or middle eastern people, but they are the only ones that have ever flown our planes into buildings.

So again, you are stereotyping all Muslims as extremists.

[skippy740]

I'm a 54 year old, pudgy, grey haired, white anglo saxon male - who was picked to go through the "special screening" last time I flew -- why? how did that make anyone safe?

It doesn't. It makes everyone else feel "policitally correct" and "random" that they're not going to offend anyone for "singling them out" or for "racial profiling".

[mnn727]

So again, you are stereotyping all Muslims as extremists.

Again I ask, who has flown planes into buildings?

No not all Muslims are extremist, but if you are flying on the plane and worried about security, would you rather I get checked or the 20 something middle eastern person? Be honest now.

Political correctness never saved anyones life.

It can be a dangerous world, so lets start using some common sense and stop trying to make people feel good.

Edited November 18, 2010 by mnn727

[Dravin]

So again, you are stereotyping all Muslims as extremists.

Pam, if someone sees someone was strangled to death and they conclude the suspect was most likely a man is that stereotyping men? Technically it is, men are stereotypically more likely to commit murder by strangling them to death than woman are but are you stereotyping all men as stranglers? No, of course not, you are stereotyping stranglers as men. You've kinda got the logic of it backwards.

Now is the correlation strong enough to warrant the profiling? No clue, but don't confuse:

A. "Most terrorists (that operate in/against America as of recent times) are Middle Eastern men of a certain age range."

with

B. "Most Middle Eastern men of a certain age range are terrorists."

Edited November 18, 2010 by Dravin

[pam]

I will bow out of this conversation since it appears to some I am obviously lacking in common sense and am confused.

Edited November 19, 2010 by pam

[DigitalShadow]

Don't forget the desire to harass children in the job description:

TSA pats down a screaming toddler : The Mommy Files

[TL10]

Don't forget the desire to harass children in the job description:

TSA pats down a screaming toddler : The Mommy Files

...And not get in trouble for it...

For now.

[mightynancy]

Profiling works - ask Israel.

From CNN.com:

Isaac Yeffet, the former head of security for El Al and now an aviation security consultant in New York, said El Al has prevented terrorism in the air by making sure every passenger is interviewed by a well-trained agent before check-in.

(bolding mine -mn)

I saw this guy on TV today. While, like you, he thinks our current measures are useless, the Israelis do not profile. EVERY passenger is interviewed more than once. They go through a checkpoint as they drive up, they are interviewed in line, they are interviewed when they check in, and at the gate. While Israel has amazing security, it is because they are thorough, not because they profile.

[Just_A_Guy]

It appears that El Al screens everyone, but some people get more in-depth screenings than others. See, e.g., here, or here. Israeli authorities themselves admit that profiling is part of the process.

The larger point of many of these articles, though, is that profiling is not some kind of silver bullet that will solve our security woes in and of itself. It's part of a comprehensive solution that, taken together, American travelers are probably not ready to put up with.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

Guys, we all grew up watching CSI, or NYPD Blues, or for Pam, Starsky and Hutch...

We all kinda have an idea of how police work works. Profiling is a MAJOR part of detective work. But no - it's not just racial profiling, it is psychological profiling, cultural profiling, regional profiling etc. etc. There's a lot involved in targetting a criminal. Not just the nth person that walks through the crime scene.

You got a wife that end up murdered... who is the first suspect? The husband. Of course. It's not an insult to husbands, it's just statistically predominant. So, they go through the husband first before they continue the investigation to other suspects.

AND even then, police detectives are always open to people that may not fit the profile but have reasonable connection. When somebody says African American men were involved in all the bank robberies that hit town the past 6 months, they don't narrow down their suspects for the next bank robbery to black guys to the point that they do not look at the white people. They eliminate the black guy off their suspect list first then move on to the white guys then they move on down the suspect list until they end up with the 3 year old bank robber. This is the only way to work in a case with a gillion suspects and only a few detectives.

Common sense, really.

[bytor2112]

Oh please..so every middle eastern fellow wearing traditional garb is immediately suspect?

Yes.....and those not wearing traditional garb as well.

[mnn727]

I will bow out of this conversation since it appears to some I am obviously lacking in common sense and am confused.

Come on Pam, I really am not looking to argue, I just want people to think: Are the current TSA procedures actually making you safer or just making you feel safer?

[Traveler]

The sad thing is that what they are doing is not making us any safer.

checking every 10th or 20th person with no basis for it other than a random number coming up is purely dumb and has no basis in real security.

It may make the masses feel good, but it won't stop anyone determined to bring something they shouldn't.

I'm a 54 year old, pudgy, grey haired, white anglo saxon male - who was picked to go through the "special screening" last time I flew -- why? how did that make anyone safe?

How about that young middle eastern fellow wearing traditional garb that walked right through before me?

Sorry but how many pudgy 54 year olds have blown up planes compared to how many young middle eastern guys?

Profiling works - ask Israel. Israel has not had plane downed, yet they don't do the stupid things we do.

and no I am not a racist - I am a realist. I have nothing against Muslims or middle eastern people, but they are the only ones that have ever flown our planes into buildings.

</rant>

You are correct about one thing – we are not safe. Lucky for us terrorists are not real bright. A while back there was an article where a young Asian boy (early twenties) was able to pass himself off as a 60 year old Caucasian at an air port. He was only caught because he removed his disguise in the bathroom on the plain and a passenger waiting to use the bath room noticed the old guy go in and the young guy come out and reported to a flight attendant.

I have a number of friends that work for the FBI. In fact there is an FBI training facility in Colorado Springs where my daughter lives. I have voiced my concerns of how terrorists (possibility just one) could take out 20 to 40 million people with very little effort and with just things found in most garages. I was told that the FBI is aware of the problem but that there is no plan in place to prevent something I could figure out on my own from happening.

The safer we feel they less we are concerned and less apt to report something that seems a little strange or does not make sense at the time. We are so complacent in our society that 90% of the crimes that take place are never solved and we cannot secure our own borders or prevent non citizens from voting. We live in a society where we expect someone else to take responsibility and if something goes wrong our plan of action is to blame someone else. In short we are a very easy target.

The Traveler

[mordorbund]

Guys, we all grew up watching CSI, or NYPD Blues, or for Pam, Starsky and Hutch...

We all kinda have an idea of how police work works. Profiling is a MAJOR part of detective work. But no - it's not just racial profiling, it is psychological profiling, cultural profiling, regional profiling etc. etc. There's a lot involved in targetting a criminal. Not just the nth person that walks through the crime scene.

You got a wife that end up murdered... who is the first suspect? The husband. Of course. It's not an insult to husbands, it's just statistically predominant. So, they go through the husband first before they continue the investigation to other suspects.

AND even then, police detectives are always open to people that may not fit the profile but have reasonable connection. When somebody says African American men were involved in all the bank robberies that hit town the past 6 months, they don't narrow down their suspects for the next bank robbery to black guys to the point that they do not look at the white people. They eliminate the black guy off their suspect list first then move on to the white guys then they move on down the suspect list until they end up with the 3 year old bank robber. This is the only way to work in a case with a gillion suspects and only a few detectives.

Common sense, really.

So is the SeaTac airport screening and profiling because TSA is actively investigating a crime? Or is this really intended as a preventative measure - on par with metal detectors in court houses?

If the police are just driving around neighborhoods routinely I don't see race entering into it. If they turn the corner and somebody breaks into a dead run all of a sudden - that could get their attention. Or if something seems way out of place like 3 white guys suspiciously huddled together in a black neighborhood. But even in this case, it's not the whiteness that warrants further investigation, just that they're different. The same would be the case of 3 guys wearing long overcoats on a summer day.

When you walk into a federal building you aren't patted down because you're a white male like the ones responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing. Why do we expect airports to be any different?

[Dravin]

When you walk into a federal building you aren't patted down because you're a white male like the ones responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing. Why do we expect airports to be any different?

I imagine it's the perceived strength of the correlation and the difference in the fear of the two events. Which I can kinda understand, the last blown up building didn't have the death toll as that from the last high profile US airplane hijackings and I imagine more people fly than work in federal office buildings (as a percentage of population).

I think Traveler has mentioned it before (possibly in this thread) you really want to spread fear hit the malls, it's probably a more universal experience than flying. Still I don't see Mall security being taken to the point airport security is. There seems to be something in particular about flying, I wonder if it is building upon a lot of people not being completely comfortable being sealed in a metal tube tens of thousands of feet above the earth with no escape if something goes wrong.

You know this is all an interesting study in psychology.

[Guest]

So is the SeaTac airport screening and profiling because TSA is actively investigating a crime? Or is this really intended as a preventative measure - on par with metal detectors in court houses?

If the police are just driving around neighborhoods routinely I don't see race entering into it. If they turn the corner and somebody breaks into a dead run all of a sudden - that could get their attention. Or if something seems way out of place like 3 white guys suspiciously huddled together in a black neighborhood. But even in this case, it's not the whiteness that warrants further investigation, just that they're different. The same would be the case of 3 guys wearing long overcoats on a summer day.

When you walk into a federal building you aren't patted down because you're a white male like the ones responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing. Why do we expect airports to be any different?

I see your point.

At the same time, I don't agree that patting down groins on every nth passenger is necessary as a preventative measure. I would rather you do the regular scans for all passengers and every passenger who triggers suspicion get the pat-down. But then, that's asking all TSA agents to be behavioral experts.

Bah, I still think the better solution is to spend the money on hiring professionals to board every single plane incognito - professionals trained in armed and unarmed combat as well as bomb disarming. And yes, they would ride every plane armed.