Just Another TSA Pat Down

[Bini]

Just caught this on AOL as I went to check my email.

Blond in Lingerie and Wheelchair Gets Extensive TSA Pat Down in Oklahoma

[Just_A_Guy]

You know, it's funny - the discussion on this topic over the past few days indicates that lots of us look at the TSA as a bunch of goons, until evidence shows to the contrary.

On the other hand, I think most of us look at the police (who wield just as much--if not more--power) as hardworking professionals, until evidence shows to the contrary.

Why the difference, I wonder?

[applepansy]

Maybe because TSA is doing pat downs on 10 yo kids?

Or maybe its because people who fly aren't being booked into jail?

Edited December 3, 2010 by applepansy
addition

[Just_A_Guy]

Or maybe it's because when the cops pull crap like this, they usually confiscate the video?

[mordorbund]

Maybe because TSA is doing pat downs on 10 yo kids?

If I genuinely thought that blowing up an airplane was a great way to get my message across, I would have no problems strapping explosives to my kid.

Or hollowing out a wheelchair frame and placing explosives in there.

And I'm nice.

[Guest]

If I genuinely thought that blowing up an airplane was a great way to get my message across, I would have no problems strapping explosives to my kid.

Or hollowing out a wheelchair frame and placing explosives in there.

And I'm nice.

Well, that's the thing, I would never genuinely think that blowing up an airplane is a great way to get my message across... so, me or my 9 year old shouldn't have to be treated like a criminal.

[Vegemighty]

This video gives me the creeps. The woman looks and moves like a robot. Its those lifeless eyes. Gives me the willys.

The patdowns are an interesting conundrum, on one hand you want to be secure in your persons, but does that mean not being blown up or not being pat down. I say we just make planes out of Qurans.

[marshac]

You know, it's funny - the discussion on this topic over the past few days indicates that lots of us look at the TSA as a bunch of goons, until evidence shows to the contrary.

On the other hand, I think most of us look at the police (who wield just as much--if not more--power) as hardworking professionals, until evidence shows to the contrary.

Why the difference, I wonder?

The police are accountable to the community they serve- if something gets too out of hand, the community will respond, and elected officials will take corrective action.

The TSA lacks that feedback mechanism.

[Dravin]

The TSA lacks that feedback mechanism.

Not quite. It's just a lot further removed. One can influence the local PD by influencing the Mayor or City Council. To influence TSA requires pressure on congress. Proportionally I have a lot more weight to throw around with my Mayor than I do my Senators and Representatives.

[marshac]

Not quite. It's just a lot further removed. One can influence the local PD by influencing the Mayor or City Council. To influence TSA requires pressure on congress. Proportionally I have a lot more weight to throw around with my Mayor than I do my Senators and Representatives.

That's like saying the bee flying two states over actually contributes to the wind blowing through the trees... in theory, sure, but in practice, no way.

[rubondfan2]

You know, it's funny - the discussion on this topic over the past few days indicates that lots of us look at the TSA as a bunch of goons, until evidence shows to the contrary.

On the other hand, I think most of us look at the police (who wield just as much--if not more--power) as hardworking professionals, until evidence shows to the contrary.

Why the difference, I wonder?

I fall into the category outside of "most of us". I've got just as many issues with the police as I do with the TSA and most other inflated, bureaucratic, abusive agencies with underqualified, underpaid and undertrained people working for them.

Yeah... that was a vent... I know. :)

[Guest]

You know, it's funny - the discussion on this topic over the past few days indicates that lots of us look at the TSA as a bunch of goons, until evidence shows to the contrary.

On the other hand, I think most of us look at the police (who wield just as much--if not more--power) as hardworking professionals, until evidence shows to the contrary.

Why the difference, I wonder?

No we don't. We look at TSA Policy as stupid, not the TSA people. Big difference. Trust me, if the police force would start a policy to randomly stop cars, get the drivers out for a pat down without JUSTIFIABLE cause, there'd be just as much hoolabaloo about it too.

[dash77]

I’ll be the first to support the notion that too many policy officers can be power driven – likewise for airport security. I would also like to note that I realize pat-downs can be different experiences for different people and there are gender issues. From a personal perspective, however, I would have no problems going through scanners or being pat-down in any body area because I prefer the knowledge that we are safer on airplanes. There really are suicide bombers and I would rather be pat-down thatn blown up.

[DigitalShadow]

I’ll be the first to support the notion that too many policy officers can be power driven – likewise for airport security. I would also like to note that I realize pat-downs can be different experiences for different people and there are gender issues. From a personal perspective, however, I would have no problems going through scanners or being pat-down in any body area because I prefer the knowledge that we are safer on airplanes. There really are suicide bombers and I would rather be pat-down thatn blown up.

If someone were truly intent on blowing up a large amount of people, all they would have to do is detonate a device in the massive line of unscreened people waiting at the security checkpoint or any other crowded area. The only reason it would matter that they're on a plane is if they intend on hijacking the plane to fly it in to a building, but can you honestly see a group of passengers standing for that after 9/11?

If anything, these ridiculous procedures put us more at risk and are only in place to give people a false sense of security and allow politicians to claim they are "fighting the war on terror."

[Jenamarie]

I’ll be the first to support the notion that too many policy officers can be power driven – likewise for airport security. I would also like to note that I realize pat-downs can be different experiences for different people and there are gender issues. From a personal perspective, however, I would have no problems going through scanners or being pat-down in any body area because I prefer the knowledge that we are safer on airplanes. There really are suicide bombers and I would rather be pat-down thatn blown up.

But you are many many times more likely to be killed in a car wreck than you are by a suicide bomber. Would you be okay with security checks every.single.time. you wanted to get behind the wheel, since it would make you safer, even if you never drink alcohol or drive while tired? Or would you find it excessive and intrusive?

[Dravin]

That's like saying the bee flying two states over actually contributes to the wind blowing through the trees... in theory, sure, but in practice, no way.

I would think the recent election results demonstrate that the population of the US has practical influence on the make up of Congress. What you lack is critical mass to influence the issue as most people don't care enough to make it an issue. The feedback measures in your small town don't work to change things if critical mass isn't reached either. It is just, as mentioned, any one person is a larger step to critical mass in a municipality than nationally.

Honestly the feedback mechanisms are working, it's just they are sending the message of "we don't really care about what you are having the TSA do" instead of what you want the message to be; "stop the TSA circus!"

Edited December 3, 2010 by Dravin

[zippy_do46]

How do they choose which one to pat down if they do not do everyone? That can only lead to a can of worms bigger then what they have.

[Dr T]

That's like saying the bee flying two states over actually contributes to the wind blowing through the trees... in theory, sure, but in practice, no way.

I always thought it was a butterfly in China!

[HoosierGuy]

A former model in playboy magazine and on that day she dresses the way she does AND gets searched. It does cause me to wonder if she intended for this to happen.

[dash77]

I believe the pat-downs are based on a pure radon sampling strategy – regardless of how a person is dressed – which would explain why the almost nude women in the airport was searched. However, I also believe airport security has the discretion to search whoever they think is acting differently or suspicion. This is where abuse would come into play and I have witnessed some myself first-hand.

On this issue – and other ones including simple community issues like roads getting plowed after a snow storms, I find the American people quite fickle. On the one hand they want top notch security and services. Yet most American will not pay the needed taxes for top notch services and when new strategies come about (e.g., body scanners, pat-downs) they then complain. Yet, if a plane gets bombed, they will then point the finger and blame the lack of government strategy. Yet, again, when government tries new strategies, people complain there is poor thinking. Either way, government decisions are to blame for anything bad that happens. The government can’t win.

I might be wrong, but I believe Israel has one of the best systems of airline security and has low terrorist attack (in airplanes) and has a reason belief that terrorist want to blow up their airplanes. I have had a few Israel co-workers tell me every single passenger is body scanned and pat-downed. My understand is you have to arrive at the airlines a lot earlier and there are extra inconvenience but the trade-off is high safety. I have no personal problems with extra inconvenience and with strategy such as pat-downs or body scanners – I prefer safety over inconvenience.

[Just_A_Guy]

I believe the pat-downs are based on a pure radon sampling strategy . . .

Good gravy, I hope not!

(Yeah, I know what you meant . . . )

[Iggy]

I have watched the clip - a lot- and she just doesn't look real. She doesn't even blink! Me thinks this is a hoax.

[dash77]

I think most people who know me at this site know that I are extremely suspect of people who marshal evidence using newspaper articles (I find research support much more pervasive). However, there are times when a topic does not have much research support – such as new societal topics.

In regard to pat-downs, I believe a new bomb threat is bra-bombers. Please see the two related links below. I know that there have been men found with bomb making material sewn into their underwear – but not actual bombs (perhaps a little more difficult to conceal:o). This is a very delicate and sensitive issue, but again, I am comfortable being put through scanners and being patted-down in private areas for the sake of safety.

Jenamaria:

I agree with you that car accidents are more pervasive and have been used to store bombs (e.g., Oklahoma bombing). You point is a good one – but from a resource perspective we can’t pat down every car driver. From an airport security perspective, we have the resources to pat down all passengers or put them through scanners. My understanding is that in larger cities car analysis is done when there is reasonable fears of bombing. Unlike airports, we can’t pat down all drivers. Within the context of airports, it makes sense t me.

Bra bomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BRA BOMB ALERT; Airport warning on new terrorist threat. - Free Online Library