Atheist Ads Cross The Line

[Elphaba]

Just show's how desperate they really are.

No more desperate than the LDS Church is everytime it launches an advertising campaign.

In other words, not.

Elphaba

[GeneC]

Desperate for what, exactly?

To be heard or at least recognized.

[GeneC]

No more desperate than the LDS Church is everytime it launches an advertising campaign.

In other words, not.

Elphaba

Oh but the Church is desperate to have every soul saved and brought back to the presence of Heavenly Father.

[Elphaba]

There is no effort here at intelligent exchange.

So when a church advertises on a bus, it is an effort at intelligent exchange?

Elphaba

[GeneC]

So when a church advertises on a bus, it is an effort at intelligent exchange?

Elphaba

I've not noticed any Churches advertising on a bus - any examples?

[Elphaba]

Oh but the Church is desperate to have every soul saved and brought back to the presence of Heavenly Father.

I see--desperation is a good thing, and you were actually complimenting the atheists.

Thanks for the clarification.

Elphaba

[GeneC]

I've not noticed any Churches advertising on a bus - any examples?

Desperate:

: of extreme intensity

: having an urgent need, desire, etc.

The Church has an urgent need, desire to save as many souls as it can. That's why they advertise on TV, broadcast General Conference to the world, baptize and perform other activities for the dead. That is one of the main ingredients, if you will, of the LDS Church today.

[Elphaba]

I've not noticed any Churches advertising on a bus - any examples?

A quick search came up with the following:

Doing Something More for God

Church Advertising Network (in a bus stop)

Experience Easter

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

Desperate:

: of extreme intensity

: having an urgent need, desire, etc.

There are more definitions of "desperate" than those you provided above, and the one you applied to the atheists responsible for the ad campaign was derogatory.

My obvious point is atheists are no more desperate than the Church is within the context of a derogatory definition of the word.

Elphaba

[prisonchaplain]

So when a church advertises on a bus, it is an effort at intelligent exchange?

Elphaba

Sometimes. I'll just come up with a silly one. "If there was a big bang, who lit it?"

Silly? Kinda. Funny? Mildly. Offensive? Shouldn't be. And sure, it might stimulate some conversations.

Here's another one that is actually common: "Know God Know Peace No God No Peace"

That one might be mildly offensive. I could imagine not only atheists, but the increasing number of "Nones" saying, "Who are you to say I do not have peace?" At the same time, amongst friends, that too might start a meaningful conversation.

When ads cross the line of saying "Believe/Don't Believe God and it means you are foolish..." not much of a convo starter there.

[Xevelous]

I don't care if you're atheist or not, I won't judge people about their beliefs, but this is just disgusting in so many ways. Yes, there are some people of different faiths (including ours) that are intolerant of other faiths/beliefs, but I for one think that apart from Westboro, these people from other religions don't disrespect one's beliefs like this.

I believe that the atheist group should cease and desist. There are very good people who (in times like these) only have God, or some religious figure, to rely on. I believe this ad takes their faith, and smashes it to bits, instead of holding some sort of respect for them.

What do you think about this?

How offensive is this, eh? We have the right as Americans to display your belief or non belief. In America you have the right of free speech, and nothing in the constitution states you have the right to protection from being offended. The cost of free speech is, I think "fortunately", our delicate feel-goods.

[TL10]

My main issue is this. What falls under freedom of speech, and what doesn't. What I frown upon the most is that people seem to be abusing that right to free speech. Basically, I'm concerned mainly about the type of ads in the OP and Religious/Political groups 'protesting' against political issues in which their arguments have no base whatsover ie. Westboro protesting @ military funerals, Fox News claiming that Obama is Muslim, etc. etc. These claims are unjustified, and lack support, and are more like verbal assaults against a group of people/a person of a certain demographic.

What I'm saying in short is that things like I listed above, shouldn't be considered as right, it's a misuse of that right, a right that people have fought and died for you. Yes, I strongly believe in freedom of speech, but I would NEVER consider something along the lines of the ad in the OP as something that should be protected.

I would like to point out again, that I am NOT against atheists, I think they deserve the right to share their beliefs, but I am against this small minority of atheists who initiated this ad campagin.

[GeneC]

Yes, I strongly believe in freedom of speech, but I would NEVER consider something along the lines of the ad in the OP as something that should be protected.

.

You're the OP (original poster)

[Soulsearcher]

My main issue is this. What falls under freedom of speech, and what doesn't. What I frown upon the most is that people seem to be abusing that right to free speech. Basically, I'm concerned mainly about the type of ads in the OP and Religious/Political groups 'protesting' against political issues in which their arguments have no base whatsover ie. Westboro protesting @ military funerals, Fox News claiming that Obama is Muslim, etc. etc. These claims are unjustified, and lack support, and are more like verbal assaults against a group of people/a person of a certain demographic.

What I'm saying in short is that things like I listed above, shouldn't be considered as right, it's a misuse of that right, a right that people have fought and died for you. Yes, I strongly believe in freedom of speech, but I would NEVER consider something along the lines of the ad in the OP as something that should be protected.

I would like to point out again, that I am NOT against atheists, I think they deserve the right to share their beliefs, but I am against this small minority of atheists who initiated this ad campagin.

The question then becomes how do you define an argument as having no base? The people making the noise truly believe in their stance as much as you believe in your faith, so while it might seem distasteful to many they are declaring very much the same sentiment as you are when you publicly condemn people or classes you disagree with. As much as you might believe a group or people might be sinners, going on public campaigns and making it political is just as offensive if not more so than that ad. So again either you are 100% against it from all sides, or you are personally offended by this and make big noise but want your side to keep doing it and just not have it turned back around on you. As LM showed a lot can also be taken from the spin people might put on things as well.

[Elphaba]

Sometimes. I'll just come up with a silly one. "If there was a big bang, who lit it?"

Silly? Kinda. Funny? Mildly. Offensive? Shouldn't be. And sure, it might stimulate some conversations.

Here's another one that is actually common: "Know God Know Peace No God No Peace"

That one might be mildly offensive. I could imagine not only atheists, but the increasing number of "Nones" saying, "Who are you to say I do not have peace?" At the same time, amongst friends, that too might start a meaningful conversation.

I'm confused as to what you mean by a "meaningful conversation." Initially, when you said "intelligent exchange," I thought you meant where each party is interested in the other's POV. Now, I think you mean a conversation that converts. Would you clarify for me?

When ads cross the line of saying "Believe/Don't Believe God and it means you are foolish..." not much of a convo starter there.

This is really interesting to me. Obviously our respective belief systems determine how offensive we find the ads, because I don’t see any difference whatsoever between the theist ad examples you provided and the atheist ad. They all are very clear in their positions: “There is a god,” no discussion, or, “There is no god,” no discussion. While I don’t think any of them intend to tell anyone s/he is foolish, they ALL imply that.

I had written a reply to your post, but decided to hold off. I'm making assumptions that you may not have meant. It would really help me if you could give me an example of how you think an atheist ad should address the issue of Christianity.

Let me explain--I don't believe in Christ and I'm not ashamed of that. The only reason I can think of to hide that is if I were ashamed, especially when I'm attempting to educate people about what I do believe. Given Christianity is the predominate religion, it seems obvious to me to include Christ in an ad containing a list of things I reject.

I think your point is that such an ad will not prompt a converstion that could convert someone to atheism, but again, maybe I'm wrong. Again, if you'd give me an example of how you think such an ad should address that issue, I'll better know how to respond.

Thanks,

Elph

[Elphaba]

Yes, I strongly believe in freedom of speech, but I would NEVER consider something along the lines of the ad in the OP as something that should be protected.

Then you do not, strongly or otherwise, believe in freedom of speech as outlined by the First Amendment and subsequent Supreme Court rulings.

Later: I see you're in Canada, not America, so my point is not relevant. HT: Wingnut.

I would like to point out again, that I am NOT against atheists, I think they deserve the right to share their beliefs, but I am against this small minority of atheists who initiated this ad campagin.

What, exactly, does this ad say that prompts such a statement?

Elphaba

Edited December 5, 2010 by Elphaba

[DigitalShadow]

Yes, I strongly believe in freedom of speech, but I would NEVER consider something along the lines of the ad in the OP as something that should be protected.

Seriously? A snarky bus advertisement is where you draw the line at what shouldn't be protected by freedom of speech? I'm sure the people you mention fighting and dying for your freedom were intending on protecting free speech but with the exception of anything anyone finds snarky or offensive, which essentially isn't "free speech" at all.

[Vegemighty]

Whatever. In the minds of many atheists church is a corrupt and prejudiced institution of superstitions. They seem to want whats best for us. I'm sure they don't like our Jesus Saves bumper stickers or similar advertisements either. But lets try to follow the example of Jesus and turn our cheeks when insulted. Its what He would want.

[LDSVALLEY]

From my neck of Canada I have not seen these. Actually I think it is good advertising for Christ because it puts his name in the public view to allow people to contemplate what is being said. For those who require specific evidence of Christ because they can not have Faith in him then it fits perfectly.

Besides if we can put up information about Christ we have to allow the other team the same right.

That's the way the Lord's plan works!

Think of the humor, they who don't believe are supporting the plan of what they don't believe in by claiming not to believe. Nice Irony.

[Wingnut]

We have the right as Americans to display your belief or non belief. In America you have the right of free speech, and nothing in the constitution states you have the right to protection from being offended. The cost of free speech is, I think "fortunately", our delicate feel-goods.

Except that the OP is in Canada.

You're the OP (original poster)

I'm sure he's aware of that. He was referencing the photo he posted, not the commentary.

Then you do not, strongly or otherwise, believe in freedom of speech as outlined by the First Amendment and subsequent Supreme Court rulings.

Again, Canada.

But lets try to follow the example of Jesus and turn our cheeks when insulted.

Or we could choose not to be insulted or offended.

[prisonchaplain]

I'm confused as to what you mean by a "meaningful conversation." Initially, when you said "intelligent exchange," I thought you meant where each party is interested in the other's POV. Now, I think you mean a conversation that converts. Would you clarify for me?

I just meant a conversation where neither side resorts to name-calling or intentional offensiveness. Low bar, I admit. Interest in the other's POV would be a nice step other. In today's environment, I would probably settle for neither side feeling the need to offend or degrade the other.

This is really interesting to me. Obviously our respective belief systems determine how offensive we find the ads, because I don’t see any difference whatsoever between the theist ad examples you provided and the atheist ad. They all are very clear in their positions: “There is a god,” no discussion, or, “There is no god,” no discussion. While I don’t think any of them intend to tell anyone s/he is foolish, they ALL imply that.

I'll admit it's a matter of nuance. However, asking who lit the big bang is far more circumspect than suggesting belief in Jesus has no more merit than belief in psychics. The "No peace" tact is probably along the lines of the ad in the OP.

I had written a reply to your post, but decided to hold off. I'm making assumptions that you may not have meant. It would really help me if you could give me an example of how you think an atheist ad should address the issue of Christianity.

Somebody's always going to be offended, but if I were an atheists looking to get Christians to think outside their faith, I might do an ad that asked, "In the beginning...perhaps man created God?" It's still pointed. Some will find it aggressive. However, at least it's open-ended.

Let me explain--I don't believe in Christ and I'm not ashamed of that. The only reason I can think of to hide that is if I were ashamed, especially when I'm attempting to educate people about what I do believe. Given Christianity is the predominate religion, it seems obvious to me to include Christ in an ad containing a list of things I reject.

You've gotta admit, even if you believe Christianity is more myth than history, it has a little more substance that a psychic. So, again...It's just a matter of nuance. The purpose seems to be mockery, rather than promotion of a viewpoint.

BTW...the ad comes nowhere near the line of what should be censored, in my view.

[GeneC]

I'm sure he's aware of that. He was referencing the photo he posted, not the commentary.

Does now.

[Last_Daze]

I've got a hard time seeing what is so darn offensive about it; it is no different than the guy at the university distributing his poorly-xeroxed anti-Christian newsletter on the campus mall.

And frankly, there aren't a lot of people out there who are going to be swayed one way or the other. If you are already convinced of the existence of a deity, then you are probably an adherent of some religion and you worship him/her in some way. If you are unsure of the existence of a deity, you are probably not an adherent of a religion, and you probably don't care all that much. And if you are convinced of the nonexistence of a deity, then you are probably just like the folk who put the ad together in the first place.

And, since we've just gotten through the election season, let us reflect on this: how often does an ad really get someone to change their opinion about something like that?

[DigitalShadow]

I support freedom of speech - just so long as BOTH sides can post their beliefs. I am concerned over many atheist groups trying to take away the freedom of speech of those who are Christian.

How exactly are atheist groups trying to take away anyone's freedom of speech?

[bytor2112]

Seriously? A snarky bus advertisement is where you draw the line at what shouldn't be protected by freedom of speech? I'm sure the people you mention fighting and dying for your freedom were intending on protecting free speech but with the exception of anything anyone finds snarky or offensive, which essentially isn't "free speech" at all.

TL is Canadian and.....16.