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RalphTheMouth

Two girls, one choice

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Got myself in a pickle. Though the wonders of online dating I've found 2 wonderful LDS girls. :D They are both strong in the gospel, temple worthy and overall good caring normal girls. They each have distinct personality features I like. I got to know them at the same time and both have grown into great relationships. They are both planning to visit soon. :eek:

If romantic relationships have 4 phases: dating, serious, exclusive and engagement. Then we're at the dating phase. However, I talk to them daily, so we're quickly moving into the serious phase. I'm not ready to get into the exclusive phase until I've gotten to know them better and we've met in person to see if we're got the spark.

Now if they lived here I'd know what to do and the dynamics would be different. I'd have gone out with them by now and would know which one I had more of a spark with. I'd also be in the exclusive phase by now with one of them and it'd be clear where I stand. However, the distance is tossing me a curve ball and I'm not sure what to do. :confused:

The scary thing is that if I find the spark with the first girl to come here, I'll get closer to her and my love for her will ignite. The 2nd girl will be at a disadvantage and I'll feel like a jerk or maybe like I'm cheating by getting physical with the 2nd girl while I'm in love with the 1st. On the up side, the girl that I'm leaning toward will be coming to see me first. So if I fall in love with her, it would be wonderful. Now for the downside...

I care for both of them and don't want to hurt or mislead them. I would hate to get serious with both of them, then cut one off. So I feel like if I tell them up front they'll know what to expect and it won't be a shock. Right now it feels like a sin of omission. I've been on both sides of knowing about another guy and not knowing. Knowing was better, I was prepared. Not knowing and then breaking up was like a kick in the stomach. :sadwalk: However, I usually didn't get to know about the other guy until I asked to get exclusive. Which was fine with me because we were just dating before.

When should I tell them I'm talking to other girls? I think they are under the impression they are the only one I'm talking to. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one they are talking to. I could be wrong, but I'm afraid to ask directly since I'm sure they'll want me to answer the same question. So I haven't asked. I just don't want to spoil the current relationship by adding in a detractor. I don't want them to get jealous and start bugging me about the other girl. I don't want the drama. I just want to get to know them and see if there is enough there to pursue.

Now on the other side of things, I've known girls who had two guys on the hook for months. Both were good guys, she choose one, married him and lived happily ever after. I'm just not familiar with the guys side of it.

Most of the guys I know would either: 1) play the field, date lots of girls, maybe have a few regulars, but aren't looking to get married just yet. So it's all fun and games. 2) Look for "the one" seriously, date exclusively, marry "the one", live happily ever after.

So I'm in a gray area and none of my mates are giving me any good advice. Mostly cause they have no experience with this particular situation. So I figure I should get internet advice for internet dating. :P

Maybe I should just marry them both?! Just Kidding! :cool:

Thanks for reading this far and thank you for your advice.

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What ever you do remember that getting fysical belong to the marriage!, even long kisses do. IF you do that before marriage you WILL be in big trouble and get all of you in a big trouble. Just stay on dating as long as you KNOW which one you want to have as your ETERNAL wife and STICK to it!

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I think the girls should realize that there is no full commitment here. You are not engaged with either. In fact, you have not met them yet. You have no responsibility at this stage to let them know you are dating others, unless you choose to do so. That is, unless you've already told them you want to go steady.

Even after you have met both, this doesn't mean you will choose either one of them. You may decide the "spark" is not there. After all, getting to know someone online/phone is very different from knowing them well in person. You will not see all their quirks, etc. Most people put their best selves upfront in a dating situation. You do not always see what they are really like when stresses hit.

So enjoy the dating, and hold off on the serious relationship for another few months. Meeting them is just another step in the dating arena - like a first date.

I do have one question, though. While one is visiting you, how will you stay in contact with the other one? THAT may be the awkward part, unless you just tell her you will be unavailable for a week.

Good luck and God speed.

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if they are coming to visit it might be a good time (before they make final plans to come) to have the "what are we?" or the "what are your intentions?" conversation. will allow you to find out where they are and what they are thinking. also opens the door for you to let them know that you are not ready to be exclusive and do not expect them to be either. bring up that talking online and knowing someone in person are different and before you can be exclusive knowing them in person is a very important step to you.

my husband called it "friends with potential". not exclusive, not boyfriend/girlfriend, but definitely possibility of more there. yes some may see it as kinda lame. lol but i went with it and yes i dated other ppl.

i do think you need to be honest with them that you are not being exclusive at this point (also make sure they know you do not expect them to be. if you do expect them to be then you don't deserve either of them ;) )

if you have any personal "rules" about online dating moving forward it would be a good time to discuss it. for example i would suggest that if you have only known someone online you should date while living in the same city for a yr or so before getting married. those kinds of "rules" need to be talked about. make sure you ask them if they have any "rules" or feelings on the issue. if they are talking about visiting then the relationship is moving forward and you need to talk about them. if it's too awkward to talk about then how are you going to discuss the more serious topics that need to be discussed before marriage (finances, goals, kids, discipline, birth control, sex, etc)? this is a good opportunity to find out how she handles difficult conversations (for her to learn that about you as well lol).

good luck

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I don't think you are obligated to tell each woman about the other; however, I have no doubt that if you end up choosing one of them, the other will feel betrayed because she had no idea you were talking to another woman as seriously as you're talking to her.

You acknowledged it was easier for you when you were in that situation and knew she was also talking to another guy. Don't you owe these two women the same?

I'd tell them both the truth. They each deserve the opportunity to choose whether to continue pursuing a relationship with you, or not, as it might not be worth the risk to one or both.

Elphaba

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When should I tell them I'm talking to other girls? I think they are under the impression they are the only one I'm talking to. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one they are talking to. I could be wrong, but I'm afraid to ask directly since I'm sure they'll want me to answer the same question. So I haven't asked. I just don't want to spoil the current relationship by adding in a detractor. I don't want them to get jealous and start bugging me about the other girl. I don't want the drama. I just want to get to know them and see if there is enough there to pursue.

That right there.

Ok, word of the wise....

If you even have an inkling that one or both of them are capable of the bolded statement you said above, then I would start looking for someone else.

If you are afraid of the drama now - just wait until you get married. That's drama X 100. There are girls who are not drama queens when it comes to other girls their guy is talking to. These are the girls who will give you the opportunity to "hang out with the guys", watch football games, play church basketball, talk to your female friends without getting their bloomers in a twist... If you can't trust the other party enough to let him/her out to pasture, then your marriage is crippled. And you might think, oh, it will be different once we're married. Oh no. Trust me on that one!

My 2 cents. Been there, done that.

So yeah, I say keep things truthful between all parties involved. Truthful and respectful.

By the way... just a heads up - if I was one of the girls and it has gone that far and you never mentioned about the other girl you're talking to, I'm looking for somebody else. :) No drama, just straight up, "hey, maybe this is not working out, let's just be friends" kind of deal. I would write that in as "maybe this guy can't be trusted"... of course, if you never made it seem like I was the only one you're talking to, then I would be out of my place.... doesn't change things though, because, if we're talking everyday and she never got a mention, then you were hiding her from me (which is the case here) and that wouldn't go well in my list of "trustworthy" traits. Sorry! Just being honest!

Edited by anatess

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If you are wise you will not let either relationship get too serious until you have gotten to know each girl a bit better. Let them come and visit, get to know them a bit better, then choose which one you decide to go with.

When I was in college there was a guy I began dating, we had only dated about a week before he kissed me the first time. The very next day he told me that he had to break up with me because his girlfriend from BYU was coming to visit him. Left me feeling rather upset about the whole thing and it resulted in his girlfriend learning (not from me but from one of his friends) that while she was in BYU he was dating other girls at BYU-I. In the end though he started out with two girlfriends he ended up with none. Don't lead girls on, figure out which one you want, and then stick with her until you are sure the relationship is not going to work. Don't let things get serious until you are ready to be serious with only one of them.

As for drama, dating two girls at the same time and not letting them know that you are not dating them singularly creates drama no matter what. As far as trust goes, it often has to be built and based on something, if you are starting out the relationship on false trust then you may have a problem earlier than you want. Like I said previously, don't get serious with either girl until you have figured out which one you want to get serious with.

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IMHO you don't know either of these girls well enough yet to do anything other than meet FTF and evaluate them. You have not met the families or interacted in any sort of real life situation. And their visits to you are not a real life situation either. Maybe when you are able to return the visits you can begin to get a grip on reality.

Choosing a life companion takes a lot of time, and one cannot let one's emotions get in the way by being overly physical with either of these girls. Even something a simple as a kiss can give rise to expectations and emotions that at this time are very premature.

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I do have one question, though. While one is visiting you, how will you stay in contact with the other one? THAT may be the awkward part, unless you just tell her you will be unavailable for a week.

I've been thinking about that too. Until I propose or we're married, I'm on my own, just as she's on her own. I expect us to respect each other enough to know we have lives beyond each other. So if I need to take a call in private I expect her to give me space. Just as I'll respect her need for space. If she can't and has to know everything I'm doing, that's a bad sign, time to move on.

When we're married, my life becomes an open book for her. She then has the right to know anything and everything. Though not in a controlling way. At least from my unmarried perspective. I probably sound naive.

Thanks for the advice and question. It got me to figure out an answer.

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if they are coming to visit it might be a good time (before they make final plans to come) to have the "what are we?" or the "what are your intentions?" conversation. will allow you to find out where they are and what they are thinking. also opens the door for you to let them know that you are not ready to be exclusive and do not expect them to be either. bring up that talking online and knowing someone in person are different and before you can be exclusive knowing them in person is a very important step to you.

We've had that talk already. From what I understand, both of them just haven't found anyone else. So it's not like they picked me, I was just the only one they've found interesting enough to pursue. Lucky me. However, it also sounds like since they only found one guy, they are both putting all their eggs in one basket as it were. Both are not desperate or anything. They've made it clear that they're not going to commit until we meet either, so I think I'm in good company there.

my husband called it "friends with potential". not exclusive, not boyfriend/girlfriend, but definitely possibility of more there. yes some may see it as kinda lame. lol but i went with it and yes i dated other ppl.

I like that: "friends with potential". That definitely describes were we stand.

i do think you need to be honest with them that you are not being exclusive at this point (also make sure they know you do not expect them to be. if you do expect them to be then you don't deserve either of them ;) )

I agree, I should at least make that clear. And of course I don't expect them to be exclusive when I'm not will or able to be. One sided relationships like that are bad, bad, bad. Been there, done that. Bad, bad, bad.

if you have any personal "rules" about online dating moving forward it would be a good time to discuss it. for example i would suggest that if you have only known someone online you should date while living in the same city for a yr or so before getting married. those kinds of "rules" need to be talked about. make sure you ask them if they have any "rules" or feelings on the issue. if they are talking about visiting then the relationship is moving forward and you need to talk about them. if it's too awkward to talk about then how are you going to discuss the more serious topics that need to be discussed before marriage (finances, goals, kids, discipline, birth control, sex, etc)? this is a good opportunity to find out how she handles difficult conversations (for her to learn that about you as well lol).

I've been thinking about that, but I don't really have any "rules" per se. I don't think it's fair to ask a girl to move without some kind of promise of marriage. So I was thinking after I propose, then we'd figure out the moving over here part. Then we could really get to know each other before getting married and moving in together. One last long hard look while dealing with the ups and downs of daily life. I've had the difficult conversations before, so that's no trouble for me at this point. I just need to see how they react and what they want. Bottom line for me is I'm looking for the girl who's looking for me. It either works or it doesn't, no more fantasies or illusions.

Any more suggestions for rules to think/talk about?

Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful.

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When we're married, my life becomes an open book for her. She then has the right to know anything and everything. Though not in a controlling way. At least from my unmarried perspective. I probably sound naive.

Yep. ;)

People always think... When we get married, things will be different. Errrr... not really (besides the physical part, that is). If you can't be open with her now, it's not just going to magically be better once you get married.

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I don't think you are obligated to tell each woman about the other; however, I have no doubt that if you end up choosing one of them, the other will feel betrayed because she had no idea you were talking to another woman as seriously as you're talking to her.

You acknowledged it was easier for you when you were in that situation and knew she was also talking to another guy. Don't you owe these two women the same?

I'd tell them both the truth. They each deserve the opportunity to choose whether to continue pursuing a relationship with you, or not, as it might not be worth the risk to one or both.

Elphaba

To be honest, at this time, I don't feel I owe it to them to tell them. I do owe it to them before we start talking about when exactly to come over. I'm sure there's a good reason, but I can't quite put my finder on the logic. Either way, it just feels right to tell them before they come or I go see them.

Thanks for the advice! :)

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That right there.

Ok, word of the wise....

If you even have an inkling that one or both of them are capable of the bolded statement you said above, then I would start looking for someone else.

If you are afraid of the drama now - just wait until you get married. That's drama X 100. There are girls who are not drama queens when it comes to other girls their guy is talking to. These are the girls who will give you the opportunity to "hang out with the guys", watch football games, play church basketball, talk to your female friends without getting their bloomers in a twist... If you can't trust the other party enough to let him/her out to pasture, then your marriage is crippled. And you might think, oh, it will be different once we're married. Oh no. Trust me on that one!

My 2 cents. Been there, done that.

So yeah, I say keep things truthful between all parties involved. Truthful and respectful.

By the way... just a heads up - if I was one of the girls and it has gone that far and you never mentioned about the other girl you're talking to, I'm looking for somebody else. :) No drama, just straight up, "hey, maybe this is not working out, let's just be friends" kind of deal. I would write that in as "maybe this guy can't be trusted"... of course, if you never made it seem like I was the only one you're talking to, then I would be out of my place.... doesn't change things though, because, if we're talking everyday and she never got a mention, then you were hiding her from me (which is the case here) and that wouldn't go well in my list of "trustworthy" traits. Sorry! Just being honest!

Good point there, if they can't trust me to "go out to pasture" now, it'll be much worse later on. I think it's better I let them know before it get's much more serious. That'll be a good test to see how they'll be later on. Very good advice. Thank you.

I've never intentionally made it seem like they were the only one. But since I know it could potentially be an issue, that's where I feel it's a kind of "sin of omission" type of thing. If it's bothering me enough that I think I know I need to bring it up to clear the air.

Thanks for the good feedback.

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Yep. ;)

People always think... When we get married, things will be different. Errrr... not really (besides the physical part, that is). If you can't be open with her now, it's not just going to magically be better once you get married.

You're right. That didn't quite come out the way I meant it. Right now we're in the dating "put our best foot forward" phase. As we get to know each other better, we open up and start to show the wrinkles and scars more. Once we get engaged, all the barriers are down and we're as open as can be. One last good look before jumping in with both feet for eternity. Once we pass that threshold we gain the right and privilege to know everything about each other. OK, I think I still sound naive. Guess I'll have to get married to really get it. ;)

Good friend of mine said something similar. "If you think she'll be more active when you're married, think again. Marriage doesn't make you better or fix you or the other person. You're better off marrying someone who is a strong member now because that's what they'll continue to be when you get married."

Your reply was a good reminder. I'm so lucky I found good gospel centered, temple worthy girls. Now I just have to make sure I'm worthy of them. :D

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The scary thing is that if I find the spark with the first girl to come here, I'll get closer to her and my love for her will ignite. The 2nd girl will be at a disadvantage and I'll feel like a jerk or maybe like I'm cheating by getting physical with the 2nd girl while I'm in love with the 1st. On the up side, the girl that I'm leaning toward will be coming to see me first. So if I fall in love with her, it would be wonderful.

I assume the visits will be for a week or a long weekend -- something like that? Do you really honestly believe that you will fall in lover in 3 days' time?

if they are coming to visit it might be a good time (before they make final plans to come) to have the "what are we?" or the "what are your intentions?" conversation.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on telling or not telling the girls, but you should consider that they will each be paying quite a bit of money to fly to wherever you are.

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To be honest, at this time, I don't feel I owe it to them to tell them.

I agree with you, and "owe" was not the right word.

My point is, you've already said you care about both of them and I suspect they care about you as well. I get the sense that these relationships have evolved to a point where there is at least some hope that each of you has found the "one." Therefore, you may very well end up rejecting and devastating one of them.

On the other hand, if you've told each of them about the other, then they'd both know about that particular risk of rejection, and could then choose whether or not to continue investing their time in you. They can't make healthy choices for themselves if they don't have all the facts, and given this particular potential for heartache, I think the kind thing to do would be to tell each about the other.

If you choose not to do so, however, I don't think you'll have done anything wrong.

Elphaba

Edited by Elphaba

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i don't think you need to tell them about the other in detail (like name and favorite color and how often you talk etc) but they do need to know that not only are you of the opinion that yall are not exclusive but that there are other girls you are talking to with interest. i never wanted details of the other girls my husband dated while we were dating but i did want to know if he was dating others or not. i offered the same in return, he knew i was dating. he did not know who.

Any more suggestions for rules to think/talk about?

Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful.

you really want to know? lol

don't know how old yall are but if she will be moving from her parent's home to yours i think that's a bad idea. she (or you) need to live on her own for awhile (moving to your town to date in person for a yr would take care of that).

if yall are of the mind that you will do home/car repairs or things of that nature yourself instead of hiring them done then you should do a fairly big project together.

take a trip (can get difficult when you can't "spend the night together") that is at least a 6 hour drive from where ever you are. take turns driving and navigating (no gps, it's called a map). if you can go though a large city during rush hour all the better.

spend at least 2 major holidays with the "in-laws".

spend time together when you are each: very hungry, tired, stressed, or you have that blah feeling when you are trying to get sick, and when she is pms-ing.

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oh and the advise the lady who made my wedding dress gave me. it may not be logical financially but when you do get married pick out a place together. not your place or her place. if you want to rent go look at other rental properties and find one you like together. if you want to buy go house shopping together. even if it means you have to sell something you already own. part of her explanation was that the place you are in belongs to you, when she moves in it will be her moving into your life not creating a life together. if your mom or ex helped you decorate and then she makes changes it may not go over so well. if it is someplace you have lived with an ex she won't want to live with that ghost.

i would add to that, it becomes even more important if she is moving a significant distance from home to be with you. you don't want her to wake up one day and feel like she joined your life in progress rather than yall having a life together.

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Guest BarcodeIIIlll

What ever you do remember that getting fysical belong to the marriage!, even long kisses do. IF you do that before marriage you WILL be in big trouble and get all of you in a big trouble. Just stay on dating as long as you KNOW which one you want to have as your ETERNAL wife and STICK to it!

how is long kisses for marriage, i certainly havent stuck with that ?:S

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When should I tell them I'm talking to other girls? I think they are under the impression they are the only one I'm talking to. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one they are talking to. I could be wrong, but I'm afraid to ask directly since I'm sure they'll want me to answer the same question. So I haven't asked. I just don't want to spoil the current relationship by adding in a detractor. I don't want them to get jealous and start bugging me about the other girl. I don't want the drama. I just want to get to know them and see if there is enough there to pursue.

Personally as a woman I think you should communicate to them exactly where you are when it comes down to your feelings for them, and your dating situation. Don't be rude or mean about it, but be open that you are dating/pursuing other women. If they are "under the impression they are the only one I'm talking to" that's NOT a good thing. Obviously the communication with both has been deep enough that you know they feel something (a connect) with you as you do with them.

"I'm pretty sure I'm the only one they are talking to."OK, let me help you get a bit of the air out. You might be thinking that they are only talking to you because you probably like the idea of 2 women gaga with you;). Sure who wouldn't. Don't be so quick to assume. Women can carry a load as well, and many are not going to play second fiddle to anyone. Treat her with the respect she deserves by being straight forward and honest about where she (either of them) fit in your life right now. I think it's very important to get out there and date. But you have to be honest especially if there is a tight relationship between you both. Give her that much at least.

If you do this when that time comes that you've decided who you want to be exclusive with it won't be like a freight train just ran over her several times. Women are emotional creatures, it will crush her. Communicate to her that you are keeping options open and dating. As she should be doing the same. If you lead either of these girls on you will hurt one of them very badly. I've seen it happy and it's not pretty at all.

"I don't want them to get jealous and start bugging me about the other girl. I don't want the drama. I just want to get to know them and see if there is enough there to pursue." Don't want any of that drama I've got to words for you... BE HONEST. And Jealously is a normal thing especially if you are making them feel special and cared for then suddenly they find out there's competition for that attention from you. Come on you know you love the thought of those 2 women clawing each other for you :D Seriously though they don't need to know details and such of course, but you need to be honest about what their place is in your life. Just as they are deciding, you too are making some serious life choices.

Also some wise words of advise. This online dating can sure be fun isn't it. All the stimulation coming at you from all directions. It's a great way to meet/date many people in a short period of time. If you end up really in love with one of these girls I recommend you both take turns visiting each other. Take you time. Simple writing/talking on the phone isn't enough. It's only the beginning. The one thing with online dating is you get a false notion you know someone when you really don't. Take time knowing her face to face when you can. As it get's more serious meet each others friends and family members. Time will be your greatest friend in this type of dating situation.

Distance doesn't matter if you are really meant for each other. You can make that part work easily. You do however have to take the time to really get to know each other... the good as well as the bad. She's not always going to be in her best light, neither will you.

Good luck.

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How far away do these women live? If they have plans to spend a lot of money to come see you, I think you have an obligation to tell them you have several interests and don't feel you can make such a big decision before you have met someone in person. They might feel more serious about you than you do about them.

If I were one of the women, I would want to know. I was in a situation where a guy was choosing between me and a friend. I made the decision for them. I wanted someone who felt so strongly about me, he wouldn't be choosing between me and someone else.

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Ralph?! I would have been ok if I had found out that we weren't exclusive straight from you, but to find out through a post on a web board?!?! I can't really define what the difference is that ticks me off about it, but in true girly fashion, I'm insulted, hurt and will never trust men again. I'm done! Everything you ever said to me is cheapened by the fact that you were saying it to two of us at the same time. I'm taking myself out of the running. Problem solved! Get out of my virtual life! I hope you two are very happy together!

:D;)

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Ralph?! I would have been ok if I had found out that we weren't exclusive straight from you, but to find out through a post on a web board?!?! I can't really define what the difference is that ticks me off about it, but in true girly fashion, I'm insulted, hurt and will never trust men again. I'm done! Everything you ever said to me is cheapened by the fact that you were saying it to two of us at the same time. I'm taking myself out of the running. Problem solved! Get out of my virtual life! I hope you two are very happy together!

That's fine with me, I looked at your profile and find you have a SON!! You never told me that! :mad:

Thank you for the minor heart attack. :D

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How far away do these women live? If they have plans to spend a lot of money to come see you, I think you have an obligation to tell them you have several interests and don't feel you can make such a big decision before you have met someone in person. They might feel more serious about you than you do about them.

Yes, of course, I won't allow them to spend money to come see me until they understand we're still getting to know each other and I'm dating other gals. Before either of them comes to see me I'll make sure it's clear where we stand. I haven't said yes to either of them coming yet because I want to be sure we're serious enough to invest the amount of time and money it'll take to get to the next level in our relationship.

If I were one of the women, I would want to know. I was in a situation where a guy was choosing between me and a friend. I made the decision for them. I wanted someone who felt so strongly about me, he wouldn't be choosing between me and someone else.

Speaking on that, that's how I feel. I never expected to find 2 amazing women. I assumed there'd be one clear great woman that knocks me off my feet and the choice would be clear. The real problem is there are too many amazing girls out there. Who knew? :o

I just don't know how to choose between the two. Honestly I don't want to get more serious with 2 women. I've always said I'm a one woman guy and yet here I am: Frustrated. It feels like I can't quite give all of me because I'll loose myself in that relationship and end the other one. Which would be fine if I could just decide. :mad:

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