Helping my gay friend?

[lizzy16]

I have this really great friend, Mikey. He's gay (or so he says..). And he admits he wants kids, and a wife but then he has these sexual feelings towards men. I've shared this quote by the prophet:

“People inquire about our position on those who consider themselves so-called gays and lesbians. My response is that we love them as sons and daughters of God. They may have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are” (Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign , Nov. 1998, 71).

Additional Information

“We want to help these people, to strengthen them, to assist them with their problems and to help them with their difficulties. But we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families” (Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign , Nov. 1998, 71).

With him. He understood it and agreed. He's not a member of the church, but he wants to come to church.

He's requested I get him some more information, about what the church does to help homosexuals.

Any conference talks or anything ?

[Just_A_Guy]

The primary Church pamphlet on the topic is available online, here.

[Elphaba]

. . . about what the church does to help homosexuals.

What, exactly, does he want help with? Does he want to change his sexual orientation? (ETA: I'm not saying this can be done. I'm just wondering if he thinks it can and wants help with it.) Does he want to know ways to stay celibate if he becomes a member? Something else?

Elphaba

Edited December 14, 2010 by Elphaba

[catalyst]

The "so he says" remark seems to insinuate that you don't believe he's gay. Or that's at least how I read it. Is there something else going on here?

[lizzy16]

The "so he says" remark seems to insinuate that you don't believe he's gay. Or that's at least how I read it. Is there something else going on here?

Not exactly. It's just..he's 15. Can this really happen at 15? I really understand so little about it all. I don't have any experience with it.

[Elphaba]

Can this really happen at 15?

Well, it doesn't "happen" at 15, in that people aren't born straight and then suddenly turn gay at 15. Most people are born with their sexual orientation.

But it is very common for a person to become aware of the fact that s/he is gay by the age of 15, the same way it's common for people who are straight to have recognized it by then.

If he says he's gay, I'd believe him and not spend a lot of time wondering if he's wrong.

Elphaba

[Soulsearcher]

I have this really great friend, Mikey. He's gay (or so he says..). And he admits he wants kids, and a wife but then he has these sexual feelings towards men. I've shared this quote by the prophet:

With him. He understood it and agreed. He's not a member of the church, but he wants to come to church.

He's requested I get him some more information, about what the church does to help homosexuals.

Any conference talks or anything ?

I guess I'd ask for exactly what he wants to know and why. There's a lot of stuff that's been said past and present in the Church and by it's members, but really it's hard to say what's going to impact him.

The one major question i would also ask is why he wants a wife and kids. Not exactly typical for a gay person to want a marriage with someone of the opposite sex. So is he doing wanting this cause it's expected and the norm, or does he really have no problem in marrying and being sexually active with women? if the latter is true then it seems he falls more under bisexual vs homosexual.

Also the word help can be rather confusing depending on how it's being used. Clarification could help your talks quite a bit, and as always you'll usually find me in chat liz if you want to talk more.

[lizzy16]

thanks soul :)

i looked for you yesterday but u werent there :)

[MarginOfError]

thanks soul :)

i looked for you yesterday but u werent there :)

That's because Soul is a pathological liar.

But he makes a good point about the possibility of bisexuality. At the risk of sound condescending to teens, he's only 15...whereas he doesn't really fit the standard model of teenage sexuality, it's a bit more for him to process than for most 15 year olds. His interpretations of his sexuality are likely to refine over the next 5ish years (this is also true for heterosexuals, mind you, but I imagine when you fit into normative behaviors, it's usually easier to make yourself comfortable with your feelings).

[Soulsearcher]

That's because Soul is a pathological liar.

But he makes a good point about the possibility of bisexuality. At the risk of sound condescending to teens, he's only 15...whereas he doesn't really fit the standard model of teenage sexuality, it's a bit more for him to process than for most 15 year olds. His interpretations of his sexuality are likely to refine over the next 5ish years (this is also true for heterosexuals, mind you, but I imagine when you fit into normative behaviors, it's usually easier to make yourself comfortable with your feelings).

LOL i had a good excuse for not being in chat yesterday and it oddly enough ties very much into this topic lol, i was spending the day and most of the night out with a few people who were helping me kinda get a grasp on things.

[GaySaint]

Hi Lizzy, I wanted to add my two cents:

I knew I was gay when I was 12, although at 15 I doubt I would have had the courage to admit it to anybody, so the fact that he told you is really a great thing. It shows that he trusts you. I would agree with Soul that we are often conditioned to want to get married and have children, and that figuring out how to have a family/spouse/children etc. can be very confusing at this age for someone who feels attractions to their same gender. My advice to you would be not to put him in any one “box” – if you will. Be there for him regardless of his choices, and always encourage him to form a relationship with the Lord through prayer, also regardless of his choices.

I often see gay people turn away from God because His followers tend to push them away. Even the quotes that you shared sure talked a lot about discipline, which we all know is not the best motivator. It isn’t fair to set his expectations as “marriage to a woman and children” as the only ideal, especially because I don’t know many gay men who are able to make this work out very well. He should also start being prepared for the possibility of celibacy, and perhaps even given information regarding the possibility of a homosexual relationship (when he is older, haha) so that he is able to make an informed decision.

There really are three choices: Marriage to a woman, celibacy, and a relationship with another man. Hiding one of these options is not a good idea. Discussing the pros and cons of all of the above seems the best course of action. It would be fair to say that only option 1 or 2 would allow someone to remain a faithful member of the church (but since he isn’t a member of the church leaving out option 3 would seem like you are trying to force him into the “church” box. Does that make sense?). But options 1 and 2 have consequences of their own, and if these aren’t discussed fully and openly, when the consequences occur bad things can happen if the gay person isn’t prepared :).

As someone who’s been there, feel free to PM me or have him do so if you think I can help, or if you have any questions (or ask them here too).

But most of all, thank you for being concerned for him, and for being there for him. This really will mean more to him than you know.

[rameumptom]

Studies show that a person with SSA probably will have that attraction for life, regardless of any interventions. However, many find they can also develop a loving and caring attraction for someone of the opposite sex. So, he can have such attraction, but learn to be happily married to a woman and have children. As for the Church, it is concerned with behavior. As long as he keeps the law of chastity, he can be worthy of all the blessings of the Church.

[Gwen]

he's not a member of the church already. i would not encourage him to be baptized till he has sorted this out and come to terms with it. the church is not a place he can go to make this go away, getting baptized won't "heal" him. however, getting baptized will make him accountable for a lifestyle/covenants he may not be in a position to be able to live. until he knows for sure what life he ultimately wants i would not suggest for him to be baptized.

i suggest you just be a good friend, let him talk this out as he needs to. don't correct him, don't tell him how he "should" feel. just be there. if he would like, help him search this out. ask questions, be interested. something else you both should keep in mind (and i don't think this part of sexual development is talked about near enough) is that it's not uncommon for teens to have an attraction toward the same gender and they are not gay. anytime your hormones and emotions are going though a change (and teens are one of the biggest times) things get jumbled. the body starts looking for an outlet to the sexual feelings that are going on and often that is directed toward the ppl you are most comfortable with (often your own gender). same gender attraction can exist when coming to terms with your own sexual nature and learning to love yourself. it can come at any time with an emotional void that needs to be filled. it's not uncommon for someone who is in a sexual relationship that has lost it's excitement to have dreams about the same gender. it's often nothing more than the mind's way of seeking something new and exciting. if he's not sure about where he is or what he's feeling understanding that may give him some comfort. i think this fact of sexual development is why it's so hard for some ppl to accept homosexuality as something more than just same gender attraction. i often wonder if many of the ppl that are in the die hard camp of being gay is a choice have experienced quite a bit of this themselves so they think that's everyone's case and can't understand why they couldn't "change" it. i don't know your friend or if he's gay or not. i do know if it were my kid i would want to know that they understood that part of sexual development. that they didn't have to figure it all out "today". take time and really figure out yourself, before acting on anything, and when you know for sure we'll go from there.

all that being said, i would encourage your friend to come to church. being baptized may not be what's best for him but the church is a great place to hide. what i mean by that is there are a lot of teens that will try to push him one way or the other, they won't be able to objectively help him though this (all the more reason he needs you to listen). by being active at church he has an excuse. if he wants to just step back and take some time to figure himself out he may need the pressures of the world to back off. the church guidelines are great for that. they allow him to say, no dating until.... only group activities until.... no sex..... etc. they take him away from the things the world will tell him, the things that force him to know today what he really feels and buys him time to mature. there are a lot of non pressure social outlets he can participate in. dances that don't require him to pair off and no one will ask him who he is hooking up with after. there are a lot of pressures in the church but there are also a lot of pressures from the world the church can take away for us. he may really need that right now.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Gwen

[Guest BarcodeIIIlll]

I have this really great friend, Mikey. He's gay (or so he says..). And he admits he wants kids, and a wife but then he has these sexual feelings towards men. I've shared this quote by the prophet:

With him. He understood it and agreed. He's not a member of the church, but he wants to come to church.

He's requested I get him some more information, about what the church does to help homosexuals.

Any conference talks or anything ?

I am 15 and a women, i had this problem with same gender attaction, i just accepted it and it eventually went away, god loves me for who i am

pray and this feeling will fly by

[bytor2112]

I have been meeting with a man that has confided in me that he had been involved in homosexual activity in his past. He said that he had been sexually molested by an older step sibling at about 10 and this occurred many times for a couple of years. He began seeking "gay" sex at about 17 and continued this behavior until he was about 21. He was also dating and sexually involved with numerous women and was only attracted to women, but, found himself attracted to the sexual act with men primarily when he was under the influence of marijuana and alcohol.

He says he doesn't have those desires anymore and hasn't for years and feels like he was "reliving" the childhood molestation as all of his "partners were much older. Also he mentioned being exposed to pornography at that time and becoming addicted to it on the internet and other forms.

Gay or confused?

Edited December 14, 2010 by bytor2112

[Gwen]

I have been meeting with a man that has confided in me that he had been involved in homosexual activity in his past. He said that he had been sexually molested by an older step sibling at about 10 and this occurred many times for a couple of years. He began seeking "gay" sex at about 17 and continued this behavior until he was about 21. He was also dating and sexually involved with numerous women and was only attracted to women, but, found himself attracted to the sexual act with men primarily when he was under the influence of marijuana and alcohol.

He says he doesn't have those desires anymore and hasn't for years and feels like he was "reliving" the childhood molestation as all of his "partners were much older. Also he mentioned being exposed to pornography at that time and becoming addicted to it on the internet and other forms.

Gay or confused?

i think this kind of thing is exactly what i was talking about on why it's so hard for some ppl to understand or believe what gay ppl tell them. yes this kind of thing happens. you can have same gender attraction and not be gay. you have one case, that does not equal all cases. the same is true with the situation i mentioned. you can have straight teens who have an attraction for same gender when going through a sexually charged time of their life (the age range you mentioned for your friend is a sexually charged time of life by the way). none of those facts being true negates what we are told from ppl that say "that is not my experience, i was not abused. i am gay and always have been". something being true for one does not make it true for all and does not mean the other can't exist. to generalize ppl into a group instead of listening to their personal story can be very hurtful. because of the varied circumstances out there i can not lump same gender attraction and homosexual into the same group. they clearly aren't always the same thing.

[MarginOfError]

It might also help if we could stop thinking of homosexuality as a binary state. There are very likely degrees, for instance

• extremely homosexual
• homosexual
• mildly homosexual
• bisexual leaning toward homosexual
• bisexual
• bisexual leaning toward heterosexual
• mildly heterosexual
• heterosexual
• extremely heterosexual

Also, it's very likely that everyone has some propensity toward homosexuality. In most people, it's small, in a few it's very large. So questions like "Gay or confused?" can satisfactorily be answered "Yes"

[GaySaint]

Bytor: It has been my experience that those who act out sexually because of abuse can also have those burdens lifted by counseling. In other words, once the abuse is sorted out and resolved in the person’s life, the behavior changes.

I most certainly wouldn’t consider this person to be homosexual. Instead, I would say he used homosexual behavior as a way to cope with his past trauma. Why this particular behavior? He’d be better off to answer that question than I would be.

You mention that he was “only attracted to women.” That right there tells me he is heterosexual (or on the heterosexual side of MOE’s scale).

I think the problem with the friend in the OP is that he finds himself attracted to those of the same gender, regardless of his sexual experience (which I would assume would be none, but perhaps Lizzy could clarify if past/current abuse is something he is dealing with).

[jlmcbride]

I realized that I was bisexual when I was ten. It can happen at any age.

[Backroads]

I realized that I was bisexual when I was ten. It can happen at any age.

Out of curiosity, may I ask how you handle it? Are you pretty open, or do you hide it?

[ADoyle90815]

One thing I do know is that people are simply born gay, and that not all homosexuals were molested as children. On the other hand, if someone was molested and they got counseling to deal with it, some behaviors do change. Most pedophiles are actually heterosexual, and the only reason why they molest children of the same gender is that they were available at the time.

[jlmcbride]

I have only told a few close friends. I plan on changing my lifestyle when I move out in a year. It is very hard. Sometimes I don't think that I can make it. I have attempted suicide a few times and that has only hindered my progress and delayed my moving out. My family is devoutly Mormon and on my mother's side the whole family is Mormon and straight. My dad's side is inactive, but would probably be more supportive of my lifestyle. I am trying to stay positive, though.