divorce debacle


anonymousone
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Scenario:

My ex-wife left me in December of this 2009. She left me for basically "no reason" as mormons would say, nothing to even confess to a Bishop about on either end. With all my heart and soul I wanted, and tried to keep the family together, but she had other things in mind. We were married and sealed.

Within months she was sleeping around and actually moved in with her new boyfriend in about april (she didn't meet anyone until we were separated and had filed papers for divorce). We have a child together.

We had all the paperwork ready and filed for divorce in February but i got extremely lazy with moving the paperwork along because i really was over it and didn't get it finished until December of 2010 (she was in another state so i was handling everything with the courts). Basically we were missing a signature on some random form several times and our judgment got sent back several times for revision and stuff. And she was out of state so everything took an extra month each time a signature was required.

Here's where it gets interesting,

I met a girl in August, she's mormon (at heart). We started having sex several weeks after (i know right). We're going to get married (well maybe). We'll want to get sealed at some time down the line.

Is that even an option?

Should I just break up with this girl because she won't be able to get sealed to me? I want the best for her and I love her, but i'm not sure how she'll take it.

My opinion is that I'm guilty of fornication. I know technically this would fall under the category of adultery although if that's the case they need to seriously start grading the infractions under the sin "adultery."

My genuine feelings are that the fact that I have to ask this question is bullsh*t. My wife left me, I waited 8 months before I even kissed a girl. This situation really bums me out.

Never marry a girl that will divorce you.

Let me have it, thanks.

:)

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If your question is can you be sealed to a woman after you are divorced, the answer is that you may as soon as your bishop and stake president feel that you and your bride are worthy to enter the temple. When they feel that you are worthy, they will assist you in applying for a sealing clearance from the First Presidency. When the application process is appropriately completed, the First Presidency is likely to act in accordance with the recommendation of your bishop and stake president.

Now, if you really want to be sealed to your new bride, you need to start laying the ground work for yours and her repentance and conversion.

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At this point you shouldn't even be thinking about marriage (again), let alone a serious relationship until you get your act together. You can point your finger at your wife/ex-wife all you want but the only person you are accountable for is yourself. You can't wash away or justify adultery/fornication by sweeping it underneath the rug, and merrily starting over in a new life with a new partner. You and your wife/ex-wife should be more concerned for the welfare of your child than the selfish needs of yourselves. Have a talk with the Lord. He will guide you if you will listen.

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Guest mirancs8

I met a girl in August, she's mormon (at heart). We started having sex several weeks after (i know right). We're going to get married (well maybe). We'll want to get sealed at some time down the line.

Should I just break up with this girl because she won't be able to get sealed to me? I want the best for her and I love her, but I'm not sure how she'll take it.

OK, so let me get this straight. You met girl. You have feelings for girl. She's Mormon, your Mormon. You and her had sex. And here's the twist... you both have established you want to marry each other, BUT in the same breath you're asking if you should "just break up with this girl."

How can you jump from one extreme feeling to another within 2 paragraphs? I just don't get it to be honest. We all make mistakes but to punish her and erase your future with her because you BOTH made wrong choices is absolutely ridiculous. If she means enough to you that you actually want to marry each other I can't really understand how in the next breath you're ready to toss her to the wind. If you really love someone enough to know you want to be married to them you work through these things together.

If you really do care enough about her to see yourself married to her you BOTH need to repent. You BOTH need to go to your Bishop. You BOTH need to have a serious face to face conversation and set down the ground rules. There is hope! Renew your relationship with her with a fresh start! Commit to doing it right so that when the time comes you both can be worthy to be sealed in the Temple.

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You are putting the cart before the horse. Before you can be sealed in the temple to anyone, you have to get yourself back on the correct spiritual plane. Confess to your bishop and start the process of repentance. If you are sure of marriage, marry her now, and you'll have to wait until you both are ready for a temple sealing.

While you were not civilly married anymore, you were still sealed in the temple. It will still be adultery, I believe. So, you will have some serious repentance to accomplish. Work on that first. Worry about the temple marriage later.

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My opinion is that I'm guilty of fornication. I know technically this would fall under the category of adultery although if that's the case they need to seriously start grading the infractions under the sin "adultery."

My genuine feelings are that the fact that I have to ask this question is bullsh*t. My wife left me, I waited 8 months before I even kissed a girl. This situation really bums me out.

Never marry a girl that will divorce you.Let me have it, thanks.

:)

The bolded statements above tell me that you are so far off the track that you should get your spiritual self together before you pursue a relationship with anyone, let alone think of getting sealed.

1.) Thinking that sin is such that it is a grading system...

2.) Thinking that if somebody sins against you, then you are free to sin yourself...

3.) Thinking that you have any guarantee whatsoever in what your spouse does...

These things are basic gospel principles, brother. Concentrate on the basics again and work your way up - line upon line, precept upon precept.

A solid marriage is built on gospel principles. You don't want to end up getting divorced again in a year. You could marry Molly Mormon and she can still end up running off and divorcing you because there is this thing called Free Agency. But, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and much prayer - with your eyes single to the Glory of God - you and Molly can strive to build the eternal family together, propping up each other in times of weakness, so that you have a better chance of "making it all the way".

You have a child. You are responsible for her spiritual growth. This is not just something affecting your spirituality - this is now about your child.

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I've thought some more about this, and I think it's weird that you consider it all BS. No, it's not unthinkable that you can never be sealed to this girl. THat's a possibility if you work toward it. Yes, you are guilty of fornication. It sounds like you are blaming your ex-wife for this. She may have left you for "no reason" and may have pretty much walked out on her temple covenents, but that's no excuse for your behavior.

It sounds like you're happy having sex, but you want to eventually be sealed to this girl, but you can't marry her because you are breaking the law of chastity with her. It's a total paradox.

Things didn't go well with your ex. My fiance's ex also pretty much walked away from the marriage for no reason. Oh well. They had a "temple divorce" and he's working on a sealing clearance right now so that we can be sealed. There are times when he's pretty upset about it, but he wants to be sealed to me and he believes in temple covenents, so he is doing whatever it takes.

Think about what you want. Do you want to just have sex with this girl without marriage? Do you want to be married to her, but only civilly? (not a horrible option) Or do you want to be married AND sealed to her?

Yes, your wife is also breaking the law of chastity. But if you're divorced, consider her out of the picture other than the mother of your child. Focus on you and what you want and need right now. You can definitely repent. You can be sealed in the temple at some point if you and your girlfriend work toward it. But saying "My ex is doing it too!" is not an excuse and is not going to affect the grading of sins. You're either having sex or you're not.

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First of all.... a marriage is when a man and a woman is "Joined" by God in heaven...can only be put asunder by GOD. For it is written let no man put asunder what God has joined. Governments, judges etc cannot force an divorce on GOD.

Even those who possess the keys of the kingdom their "unsealing" are not upheld in heaven if there is any unrighteousness in the whole process. Men can only act by the Spirit of GOd...and The requirements for a divorce by God are extremely rigid. But a separation is more likely than a divorce.

Is adultery a good enough reason for divorce? Only to the extent we would ask God to divorce us for our adultery with our idols...be it money, laziness, computer games...which is anything we put before GOD. If men wish to be forgiven..of their spiritual adulteries....they must in turn forgive those who commit such against themselves. That is how it works.

Each case is different and man should act according to the Spirit of GOD. Whether GOD allows one to divorce or another not to divorce. That is not our business to judge a particular case.

Adultery exist as acts in the flesh and as well Spiritually. A man commits adultery when he has not received a divorce from GOD. Being Legal in the eyes of society is one thing. The will of GOD is another thing.

bert10

Scenario:

My ex-wife left me in December of this 2009. She left me for basically "no reason" as mormons would say, nothing to even confess to a Bishop about on either end. With all my heart and soul I wanted, and tried to keep the family together, but she had other things in mind. We were married and sealed.

Within months she was sleeping around and actually moved in with her new boyfriend in about april (she didn't meet anyone until we were separated and had filed papers for divorce). We have a child together.

We had all the paperwork ready and filed for divorce in February but i got extremely lazy with moving the paperwork along because i really was over it and didn't get it finished until December of 2010 (she was in another state so i was handling everything with the courts). Basically we were missing a signature on some random form several times and our judgment got sent back several times for revision and stuff. And she was out of state so everything took an extra month each time a signature was required.

Here's where it gets interesting,

I met a girl in August, she's mormon (at heart). We started having sex several weeks after (i know right). We're going to get married (well maybe). We'll want to get sealed at some time down the line.

Is that even an option?

Should I just break up with this girl because she won't be able to get sealed to me? I want the best for her and I love her, but i'm not sure how she'll take it.

My opinion is that I'm guilty of fornication. I know technically this would fall under the category of adultery although if that's the case they need to seriously start grading the infractions under the sin "adultery."

My genuine feelings are that the fact that I have to ask this question is bullsh*t. My wife left me, I waited 8 months before I even kissed a girl. This situation really bums me out.

Never marry a girl that will divorce you.

Let me have it, thanks.

:)

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My ex-wife left me in December of this 2009. She left me for basically "no reason" as mormons would say, nothing to even confess to a Bishop about on either end. With all my heart and soul I wanted, and tried to keep the family together, but she had other things in mind. We were married and sealed.

An old post I just came across, but it brings back so many memories. My wife, when we were both in the church, left me 'for no reason' about thirteen years after our temple marriage. It turned out after talking about it a while later that the main reason was control. She wanted to be alone and do what she wanted with our children, as she saw them as hers alone. That was very strange to me. Also, while she hadn't wanted to go on a mission, she said she had always wanted as a young girl to go on a Medical Aid mission to a foreign country. She was left, after marrying and having children, with the feeling that she should never have got married.

Never marry a girl that will divorce you.

I'm sure there are many who end up divorced who've said this about both men and women. How would you know, being blinded as you are by love, wanting to be together forever, and so on?

Back when I was aged twenty my then Mormon girlfriend and I wanted to marry for various reasons. Looking back, I think our six month engagement was way too short, and our reasons for marrying included avoiding missions, amongst other things. Seems so 'wrong' now, but at the time...

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First of all.... a marriage is when a man and a woman is "Joined" by God in heaven...can only be put asunder by GOD. For it is written let no man put asunder what God has joined. Governments, judges etc cannot force an divorce on GOD.

(he writes lots more stuff in here, edited for brevity's sake)

Adultery exist as acts in the flesh and as well Spiritually. A man commits adultery when he has not received a divorce from GOD. Being Legal in the eyes of society is one thing. The will of GOD is another thing.

bert10

:confused::confused:HUH????:confused::confused:

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:confused::confused:HUH????:confused::confused:

Ram, I'm glad you questioned this. I read it and thought HUH as well but I'm not very knowledgeable on religious doctrines etc etc and decided to keep quiet. But now that it's been raised to attention, yes I too, am interested in what that means.. :confused:

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One just has to listen to God. All marriages are Okayed by God the moment a man and a woman decides to live together and then starts a family. And all the Children from such marriages are seen as Holy before the Lord.

In order for our "union" to be joined in heaven all that is required is a promise to each other to love each other and forsake all others. God does not require the sanction of a judge, ship captain, or other men endowed by other men in order to sanctify a marriage in heaven.

Society and the powers that be....used to demand that we make our union official. However, these have no power over GOD nor can they make a Marriage be "joined" in Heaven. Societal conventions concerning marriages exist for a good reason but they have no power in forcing God to bind them.

Matthew 19:5 - And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Matthew 19:6 - Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder

There are many billions of marriages made by Christians, Hindus, Muslims etc. over the millenniums of mankind. The marriages between Christians is not any more "valid in heaven" than say two Hindus or Muslims who wish to start a family and promise to love each other and forsake all others.

However, Once God has assented to their Joining...Only GOD can put them asunder.

Though we receive a divorce in the eyes of society it does not mean that Spiritually God has divorced us from our previous Spouse. Society, their judges, pastors, priests have no power to put asunder what GOD has spiritually joined.

Those who are sealed by those who hold the keys of heaven will need to get a divorce from those who hold the keys of heaven. Even so...if all is not done in righteousness...then it is not undone.

It is not easy to get a divorce whether one is married in the temple or not. Though in the eyes of society we may be divorced...we do commit Adultery when God has not yet divorced us.

The last generation on the earth will a be wicked, degenerate and adulterous generation which God will burn.

Adultery....means to dilute to make less pure. We do this to our Spiritual line when we divorce and marry another which we are not authorize to do. We also commit spiritual adultery when we take doctrines from the gospel of perfection in order to bypass the gospel of Repentance. we also commit Spiritual adultery with GOD when we follow our own idols over the will of GOD.

bert10

Ram, I'm glad you questioned this. I read it and thought HUH as well but I'm not very knowledgeable on religious doctrines etc etc and decided to keep quiet. But now that it's been raised to attention, yes I too, am interested in what that means.. :confused:

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Bert10,

You think that God authorizes a marriage anytime a man and woman decide to live together and have kids? You know what the Church says regarding two people living together in the United States without a proper marriage license? They call it fornication. Missionaries will teach their new converts they must either officially marry or separate prior to baptism.

On my mission in Bolivia, we had to assist several couples get married. Some couldn't afford the fees, and so we paid them out of our own pockets. So, when it comes to LDS doctrine regarding marriage, you do not know what you speak of.

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Bert, there's a difference between married for life and married for eternity. Eternal marriages require the sealing power of the priesthood.

As always, Ana, you say in a sentence what would have taken me a page and a half of explanation to say. You are amazing. :)

And she's right, Bert. If a man has sex with someone before marriage, that's adultery. Note that the saviour didn't say that to lust after a woman is to commit adultery in your heart, 'Except the first time. The moment you lust after someone, that person is who you're married to.'

Marriage is more than two people deciding to live together. It's a solemn covenant.

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One just has to listen to God. All marriages are Okayed by God the moment a man and a woman decides to live together and then starts a family. And all the Children from such marriages are seen as Holy before the Lord.

Wow, Bert, I had to respond to your post. I hope I don't sound like I'm 'having a go' at your thoughts - I find what you've said genuinely interesting. The part I quoted above seems to say that the moment any man and woman decide to live together then their marriage is 'okayed' by god. Are you hinting that this is so of any union, within a church or not? Just curious. The bit about children born into such a union being seen as 'holy before the lord' could also be taken to mean that other children are not 'holy before the lord'..?

There are many billions of marriages made by Christians, Hindus, Muslims etc. <snip> However, Once God has assented to their Joining...Only GOD can put them asunder.

That sounds reasonable, though I wonder how anyone would know (if they split up) that god would/had 'un-joined' them..?

Adultery....means to dilute to make less pure.

I like that as a definition, and would say that it applies to my own past experience. While I lived with my next partner for a short while before marrying, and have lived with a few others over twenty years (though not many, and usually for some years), I see from experience that the ideal benefits of a male/female relationship was in fact 'diluted'. In other words, without quite clear 'ground rules' and realistic expectations, emotions and desires can so easily become demands which lead to the relationship breaking down.

Edited by IAmTheWork
Spelling.
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Yes, there is a difference between a marriage for life and one for eternity. The one for Eternity must be sealed by the promise of the Holy Ghost. Now...read this carefully...the promises of GOD are based on men fulfilling the conditions upon which they are based on. This is taking us from the point. A "conventional" marriage is marriage for life here on the earth...It used to say.."Until death do us part". Basically there should be no divorces. What God has joined for a time or for eternity cannot be put asunder except by God. The point that I was making is that the Oath a man and a woman make to each other is heard in heaven whether a justice of the peace, ship captain is standing there or not. Other cultures until recently did not need licenses or justice of the peace or pastors to have their marriage validated in heaven. fornication is just lust...and it is without the intent to found a family based on love. Getting married with a license was once a law. And law abiding people did and were advised to follow the law. And living together without being Married "conventionally" was seen as unlawful by the law and by the religion that one was in. Now there is no law requiring that man and a woman be married by at least a justice of the peace. A deep abiding love that a man has for a woman and the same the woman has for the man and the intent to love and raise children with each other and with no one else is all that is required. The oath that the man and woman make to each other before their God is binding whether a justice of the peace is standing there or not. bert10

Bert, there's a difference between married for life and married for eternity. Eternal marriages require the sealing power of the priesthood.

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Yes, there is a difference between a marriage for life and one for eternity. The one for Eternity must be sealed by the promise of the Holy Ghost. Now...read this carefully...the promises of GOD are based on men fulfilling the conditions upon which they are based on. This is taking us from the point. A "conventional" marriage is marriage for life here on the earth...It used to say.."Until death do us part". Basically there should be no divorces. What God has joined for a time or for eternity cannot be put asunder except by God. The point that I was making is that the Oath a man and a woman make to each other is heard in heaven whether a justice of the peace, ship captain is standing there or not. Other cultures until recently did not need licenses or justice of the peace or pastors to have their marriage validated in heaven. fornication is just lust...and it is without the intent to found a family based on love. Getting married with a license was once a law. And law abiding people did and were advised to follow the law. And living together without being Married "conventionally" was seen as unlawful by the law and by the religion that one was in. Now there is no law requiring that man and a woman be married by at least a justice of the peace. A deep abiding love that a man has for a woman and the same the woman has for the man and the intent to love and raise children with each other and with no one else is all that is required. The oath that the man and woman make to each other before their God is binding whether a justice of the peace is standing there or not. bert10

I think I'm starting to understand your point... but not quite yet.

Okay, I think what you're saying is that marriage in mortality do not need anybody's authority except for the husband and wife and their appeal to God. So that, once they promise themselves to each other only God can get them divorced.

I respectfully disagree. Just because they promised themselves to each other doesn't mean that God sanctioned the marriage. What man binds, man can unbind. What God binds, God can unbind. Only when God gives authority to man to bind does it then become that only God, giving authority to man, can unbind.

So, what I'm trying to say is this - today, God gave authority to the priesthood to bind man and wife for time and eternity (mortal and beyond) and only through the power of the priesthood can this then be unbound. Any other marriages are of man and therefore, man's laws can bind or unbind it. So that, any marriages performed outside of the temple is only good on earth, and not in the eternities.

Now, according to current revelation, marriages performed with legal sanction is acceptable in the eyes of God in mortality, therefore, a husband and wife married according to the law of the land is not guilty of fornication. Any other marriages that are not recognized as "legal" would be contrary to the law of chastity. This is why the church opposed gay marriage becoming legal.

Now, when a couple marries outside of the temple and then divorces legally - they are divorced. Therefore, when they marry another - legally - would then not be guilty of fornication. Because, the marriage was of man, and therefore, man's law governs it. And, of course, any marriage outside of the temple does not hold the promised blessings of eternity.

In the Philippines, divorce is illegal. So that, if one gets married in the Philippines and then gets separated from the spouse and have sex with another, then that is contrary to the law of chastity as well. Man's law governed that marriage, therefore, man's law from which the marriage was sanctioned governs the divorce as well.

This is how God's law is currently meted out in mortality.

Hope that made sense.

Edited by anatess
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Now that you understand that first part let us go heaven and see what happens there.

Once a man and a woman is married on the Earth...A Spiritual Line is started for that family. What we do on the earth in this ordinance has repercussion in heaven even concerning a earthly marriage. The act of procreation is an Ordinance and it is Holy few know this.The woman is at the time pro-creating with the Lord. She is also the guardian of the Line here on the earth as well as for the Spiritual line of the family. Adultery on the earth is more than just mixing of bodily fluids and snips of dna it also has an effect on the Spiritual line in heaven. The Lord calls this Confusion.

It is also one of the reason why men can have many wives or can more easily remarry. The Law is for earthly marriage..."Until Death do us part" and there is a reason why God allowed this to be included in earthly Marriages and is being removed by the wicked and the blind. Again it is because a earthly marriage has repercussion in heaven. Man cannot undo what GOD has done from heaven. Only GOD and those who hold the keys of the kingdom while acting in righteousness can undo what already been done in heaven.

Do you understand now. Procreating is the joining both of the flesh and the Spirit as One...and man cannot affect the Spiritual component of it. The divorce rate is an abomination unto the Lord and it is because the people do not know the Love of GOD nor do manifest it in their marriage.

bert10

I think I'm starting to understand your point... but not quite yet.

Okay, I think what you're saying is that marriage in mortality do not need anybody's authority except for the husband and wife and their appeal to God. So that, once they promise themselves to each other only God can get them divorced.

I respectfully disagree. Just because they promised themselves to each other doesn't mean that God sanctioned the marriage. What man binds, man can unbind. What God binds, God can unbind. Only when God gives authority to man to bind does it then become that only God, giving authority to man, can unbind.

So, what I'm trying to say is this - today, God gave authority to the priesthood to bind man and wife for time and eternity (mortal and beyond) and only through the power of the priesthood can this then be unbound. Any other marriages are of man and therefore, man's laws can bind or unbind it. So that, any marriages performed outside of the temple is only good on earth, and not in the eternities.

Now, according to current revelation, marriages performed with legal sanction is acceptable in the eyes of God in mortality, therefore, a husband and wife married according to the law of the land is not guilty of fornication. Any other marriages that are not recognized as "legal" would be contrary to the law of chastity. This is why the church opposed gay marriage becoming legal.

Now, when a couple marries outside of the temple and then divorces legally - they are divorced. Therefore, when they marry another - legally - would then not be guilty of fornication. Because, the marriage was of man, and therefore, man's law governs it. And, of course, any marriage outside of the temple does not hold the promised blessings of eternity.

In the Philippines, divorce is illegal. So that, if one gets married in the Philippines and then gets separated from the spouse and have sex with another, then that is contrary to the law of chastity as well. Man's law governed that marriage, therefore, man's law from which the marriage was sanctioned governs the divorce as well.

This is how God's law is currently meted out in mortality.

Hope that made sense.

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Okay, can somebody explain bert10's last post in LDS or Catholic language? I think I have some language barrier (English is only my 3rd language) that is making it very difficult for me to understand what bert is saying...

Sorry, bert... there are just some posts that I have a hard time with. It's not you, it's ME.

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