How to react?

[prairiegirl]

Okay--

So question for everyone:

I am a early thirties single. I have a PhD. I taught school for 7 years prior to the Phd. I have been working with kiddos for 2 decades, literally since before I turned 10.

I LOVE children. I'd love to have some of my own. Instead--I wait patiently (and sometimes impatiently) on the Lord--and spend as much time as I can squeeze out of my "breaks" with my nieces and nephew.

I recently moved into a new Ward. Some of it has been good--other of it--I could do without.

But--I went to the Trunk or Treat in Oct. It was freezing--but they did it outside anyway.

A lovely lady in the Ward let me "borrow" one side of her trunk so that I wouldn't have to move my car.

We had a lovely time --even in the freezing cold. I gave out most of my candy. It would be my only chance to do "trick or treaters" cause I was traveling the weekend of Halloween.

One we were cleaning up, the nice lady looked at me and said "It's so nice of you to come to this, especially since you don't have children or anything".

It was one of those moments where I was dumb struck--and couldn't figure out what to say in the right moment. I mean....I have taken care of more people's children than she could count on her toes and fingers! I cried some days when I had to send students on the bus--knowing their home situations. I cry now when I have to leave my niece and nephew. I'm searching anxiously for children to work with.

I've senses this same type of attitude within the ward in general--as if I'm foreign to children. I mean--I told my bishop that 2 of my favorite callings were when I served in a Primary presidency, and in the nursery!!!

So--how would you react? Why do people think this? Why is the automatic assumption (which I'm reading into her assumption here) that somehow, because I have a lot of education, that I CHOSE to not have children---and just come to such WARD activities to be nice or something? Seriously? Why do members of the church so often come to such assumptions? Why do they assume that I wouldn't have a grundle of children around me? I've followed the path the Lord has laid out--but my heart's desire is very different--even though I love what I do!

Anyway--the one thing I think I should have said to her is "Well, this is a Ward activity, isn't it? And aren't we supposed to be a Ward family?" or something like that. I know she didn't mean to say something dumb and assumptive---but just bugs me!

Any ideas?

[Soulsearcher]

Could this be possibly based on the fact that in their experience that members with out kids tend not to frequent activities that revolve around children? Maybe they mean more, or maybe they are genuinely happy and surprised to see someone devoted enough to be there when it's not common place?

[ndmom24]

I think she *probably* actually meant that as a compliment, and it seems to me that you may be a little sensitive to the issue as it is, so it didn't come across that way to you.

I say she probably meant it as a compliment as most people without children or that have grown children not at home, as a matter of fact, probably wouldn't have gone. I'm sorry you were offended by what she said, but I am sure she meant it as a compliment, especially if she doesn't know of your educational background.

I think it was nice that you went too. I live in a military community and to me, it's the same as our younger folks who live in the dorm coming out to do stuff for our children. They don't "have to" but they do it because they love to serve and it makes them feel better to do so :)

[pam]

I think part of it is also because you don't have children, they don't associate you with children and feel you wouldn't normally be at an activity that catered to them.

Since you are relatively new to that ward (if I remember correctly) perhaps they aren't fully aware of all the experience you have with children. Plus unfortunately people open mouth and insert feet first.

[Suzie]

I don't know this particular situation of course, but to me she meant it as a compliment and doesn't seem like she had bad intentions. I think it is well possible that you just took it in the wrong way and you were a little over sensitive about it.

[rameumptom]

People say careless, thoughtless things sometimes, when they are really trying to be kind.

I would suggest you say, "Thank you for including me. I love children and I look forward to the day when I'll have them myself." This will help them understand you better, and perhaps open up a dialogue wherein you can share your own desires, etc.

[pam]

When I was going through infertility for years, I constantly heard on Mother's Day "Maybe next year Pam." I know people meant well, but it was a very sensitive subject to me.

I was Primary President and they came into Primary and started handing out roses to the teachers who were mothers. Walking on by me of course. It was hard and I must admit I got a little teary eyed. But my day was made, when some of the girls from Primary, came to me handing me a dozen of the roses that were being handed out and said..Sis ****, you are a mother to all of us and we want you to have these."

I know many of the comments made over time I was extremely sensitive to. It's hard not to be. But I have to agree, I think the comment was made in kindness and when we are sensitive to something, we always tend to take it the wrong way. I know I do. Far too many times.

[Guest]

Unless you told all the ward about your desire to be with children - or your ward are composed of mind readers - they wouldn't associate a single person regardless of educational status with children. I mean look what happened to Michael Jackson.

It's a common theme. It is quite natural to expect a single person to hang out with other single people - hence the YSA. And it is quite natural that once a person gets married, he/she tends to drift away from single friends towards married friends. And once a person starts to have children, then they drift towards the families with children as well. Birds of a feather and all that stuff. The lady gave you a huge compliment when she noticed that you actually care about children instead of the common bachelorette lifestyle.

So yeah, instead of getting offended everytime somebody treats you as a "regular" single adult, take the opportunity to let the ward get to know you better.

Edited January 4, 2011 by anatess

[Gwen]

I've learned people say stupid things. It wouldn't matter if you have kids or not they would come up with something to say they think is "nice" or "funny" and it's really offensive. I have a lot of kids and instead of comments like you get I get the comments like "you know what causes that right?" or "you bring them all to the store with you?"... those are the most common but I could go on. My point is no matter the situation ppl will make comments.

I agree with those that say it was probably meant as a compliment. Try to let it go and just keep being you. :) I would also like to say thank you. I can't even begin to explain how much those of us with a lot of kids appreciate people like you. When I send my kids off to school there is a huge comfort in knowing they have teachers and school employees that enjoy their job and love children instead of the ones that are there waiting on retirement. Sometimes I'm having a really bad day at church or I've got to many things on my plate and knowing I have a branch family that will reach out with that extra hand and give a little attention to a frigidity child for me means the world. I'm very appreciative of the people around me that love children and are comfortable being part of things.

[NeuroTypical]

I recently moved into a new Ward.

...

the nice lady looked at me and said "It's so nice of you to come to this, especially since you don't have children or anything".

...

So--how would you react? Why do people think this? Why is the automatic assumption (which I'm reading into her assumption here) that somehow, because I have a lot of education, that I CHOSE to not have children---and just come to such WARD activities to be nice or something? Seriously? Why do members of the church so often come to such assumptions? Why do they assume that I wouldn't have a grundle of children around me?

I would react my understanding that I'm an outlier. When mormons show up to kid-related activities, 95% of them have kids. The other 5% are something unique, and humans comment on the unique. I'd react by not just leaping to the conclusion that I'd been unrighteously judged by this lady. I'd react by giving her what she was looking for - an understanding of why I was there. I'd tell her some of the stuff you just told us about how you fill your life with kids, and want some of your own.

In short, the world already has enough offended people in it. I wouldn't react by becoming another one.

[Wingnut]

In short, the world already has enough offended people in it. I wouldn't react by becoming another one.

Excellent line.

[prairiegirl]

First of all--I'd like to thank those of you who were understanding--instead of lecturing.

As stated in a post I read on a blog, being single in the church is often something that others try to understand when they have ABSOLUTELY no experience with it at all.

So--first of all--I'm not single by choice--but because this is where the Lord has landed me. The Lord is very creative with our lives--so thus, this is where I am.

I may have some of my own children some day--but likely it will not be because of a "marriage"--likely an adoption instead. Why? See previous statement. SOME of you obviously view this as arrogant or faithless on my part to say this--but YOU likely have no experience being a mid-single in this Church, and putting up with people like YOU. And you obviously MISSED the invisible "elephant in the room" within this Church. And that is that people TREAT you differently if you're single---mainly because they ASSUME things about you rather than truly get to know you!!! Many of your responses display such assumptions for sure!

Third--I woke up Sunday morning--after pondering most people's response to my letter. There was a certain tone, a certain tone of "judgment" that I was pondering--that I noticed throughout most of your comments. I mean--especially the people who claimed that unmarried people in the Church are "outliers", that 95% of those who attend activities geared somewhat for children have children--and the others are just, what, "different"---someone even commented on here that the majority of single people are not comfortable around children--nor should they be (cause, remember Michael Jackson).

Seriously people? Are we in the same Church??? Do we believe the same things?

And I realized--that your "answers" or "responses" are a perfect example of the assumptive attitude I was commenting about IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

Why, for example, do many members of the Church assume that 95% of those whom attend are married? I'll have you know that at the activity I had the experience I shared, only about 60% of those who attended had children of their own!!!

Why, for example, do many members of the Church assume that those whom are single are "outliers"? Excuse me? At this time in the Church it is almost 50/50--50% of adults are married, and 50% are not. And, really, SHOULD there be "outliers" in the Church?

I'll also have you know, that I and MANY of the single friends I have were raised faithful members of the Church, with dreams of families and large children. I was voted "most likely to have 12 children" by my high school peers. Life has just not worked out the way I "dreamed". I have 15+ years of experience with children. This does not make me "weird" or a "saint"--it makes me a typical Latter-Day Saint woman. I personally find those whom got married and now have 4 children, and NEVER had held a child before they had their first kid far more "weird" than me!!!

Lastly--this is the thought that came to my mind right when I woke up Sunday morning:

Did Christ point out to people He interacted with--whom He loved or wanted to show love to---what they didn't have--instead of who they truly were? Is that really an appropriate way to "give a compliment"?

Did he point out to the woman who touched His clothing in order to be healed from her "issue of blood" that "Thank you for touching my clothing--even though you are not whole." ? Did he point out to the woman who was about to be stoned "Thank you for coming, but your are not pure?" NO HE DID NOT!!!

Most of you assumed I was "royally" offended by what this woman said. No, I was not. She is a lovely woman--whom I think is very kind. I KNOW that she did not mean to say anything offensive. But, if you re-read what I asked originally, you will see that I asked about how to respond. Not because I was offended---but because I run into the same assumptive attitude many of YOU displayed within the Church on a regular basis, and it can be helpful to have a quick come-back--rather than standing there dumbfounded. Not so I can be rude back--but so I can leave with some dignity still in place.

But then--based upon the majority of your responses, most of you must not know how it feels to constantly have it pointed out to you what you DON'T have by members of the Church--instead of them truly trying to get to know you (or then judgingly telling you that you are the one at fault cause you're the "outlier" or "weird" one). It is the assumptions that are the problem here--and educating people is the only way to get them to think differently--obviously--or I would not have to write what I'm writing now--cause the responses in this forum would not have been full of assumptions about single people without children.

Oh--one last thought I had on Sunday morning....the only people Christ used to "point the invisible elephant out to"--or, in other words--the only people Christ used to point inappropriate "assumptive" judgments out to were His disciples when He was correcting their behavior--or the Pharisees and Saducces--usually because both groups of people were making assumptive judgments about others. Remember--it was a disciple whom Christ corrected and taught when the woman touched His clothing. It was the Pharisees/Saducces whom he corrected/taught with the woman who was about to be stoned. So--my question in response to those who made assumptions on this forum, in response to my question is: Which group do you belong to?

[beefche]

I must be seriously weird.

I'm a midsingle and have been single without kids for over 20 years in this church. Never married. Never had kids. People have said some pretty hurtful things to me--all as a way to "compliment" me--really hurt my feelings.

But, I also recognize that by thinking of myself as single and separate from others, that I was contributing to the labeling that goes on. I assumed married people didn't want to hang out with me because I was single and didn't have kids. How can they feel I relate to their problems with their infants, toddlers, teens, etc?

But, something funny happened. I woke up one day and realized that as I listened to others talk about themselves and issues they had--we all had the same issues. Loneliness, sadness, sick of working, love of chocolate, hate of chocolate's effects on hips, problems with relationships, etc.

Since that time, I haven't felt so different from others. And suddenly those hurtful things didn't hurt so much anymore. I realized that all of us are weak--we all say things with the best of intentions but it turns out different. I make just as many assumptions of others. So, instead of focusing so much on me, I've made it my motto that "it isn't all about me." That helps me.

[Suzie]

SOME of you obviously view this as arrogant or faithless on my part to say this--but YOU likely have no experience being a mid-single in this Church, and putting up with people like YOU. And you obviously MISSED the invisible "elephant in the room" within this Church. And that is that people TREAT you differently if you're single---mainly because they ASSUME things about you rather than truly get to know you!!! Many of your responses display such assumptions for sure!

It's interesting that you said that, it's interesting that you mentioned so many times the word "assumption" yet you are here making lots of them about a group of people (some forum members) who were just trying to help you out and share their thoughts.

People assume things ALL the time, it isn't an issue of marital status.

[Dravin]

Why, for example, do many members of the Church assume that those whom are single are "outliers"? Excuse me? At this time in the Church it is almost 50/50--50% of adults are married, and 50% are not.

That seems a rather out there claim. Do you have reputable statistics for it? If it's just anecdotal my personal experience is that wards (excluding the relatively few singles wards) are chock full of married people compared to single adults.

And, really, SHOULD there be "outliers" in the Church?

Sure. As a redhead I am, if we are talking about hair color, an outlier. As a former Alaskan (but current) member, in that context, I am an outlier*. If LM's assumption that the statistical norm for adults in the Church (as a whole) is overwhelmingly married is accurate then singles are statistical outliers. In single's wards married people are the outliers. Heck, being an Apostle makes one an outlier in the Church.

*These lack enough distinction that as a practical matter being an outlier has no appreciable impact on my life.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Dravin

[NeuroTypical]

YOU likely have no experience being a mid-single in this Church, and putting up with people like YOU.

I got married at 26. Also, my wife and I are both conceal-carry permit holders, and we homeschool. We know all about not fitting in with groups of people, and being outliers.

And you obviously MISSED the invisible "elephant in the room" within this Church. And that is that people TREAT you differently if you're single---mainly because they ASSUME things about you rather than truly get to know you!!!

Kind of like you're assuming stuff about me? Here's a bad attempt at PhD humor: Doctor, heal thyself. No really - showing up with a big chip on your shoulder, and then getting a huge chip on your shoulder when people answer questions you ask - does that sound like a winning plan?

Seriously people? Are we in the same Church??? Do we believe the same things?

If you believe that it's not true that most people who show up to kid-related activities have kids, then no, we don't believe the same things. I go to a lot of kid-themed activities in this church, since I have kids. And really, honestly, truly, from what I can tell, the people all standing around me also have kids. They're there because they've brought their kids or they have callings to be there. Really, honestly, truly, it's a rare thing to see someone show up to a Girl's activity day, or a trunk or treat, or a Boy Scout awards ceremony, who doesn't have a kid involved or a calling to be there. Why does that scrape you so raw that you react so negatively to having it said out loud? Why unrighteously assume that I'm sitting there unrighteously assuming stuff about you?

Dang. Sorry I used the term 'outlier'. It obviously didn't help. I wasn't talking about being unmarried in this church. I was talking about showing up at a kid function without having kids. I really intended no offense. As I re-read my original response to you, I think it's still good. Outliers are people too. I should know, I am one.

I'm really interested though - what field is your PhD in?

Edited January 11, 2011 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Guest]

First of all--I'd like to thank those of you who were understanding--instead of lecturing.

As stated in a post I read on a blog, being single in the church is often something that others try to understand when they have ABSOLUTELY no experience with it at all.

So--first of all--I'm not single by choice--but because this is where the Lord has landed me. The Lord is very creative with our lives--so thus, this is where I am.

I may have some of my own children some day--but likely it will not be because of a "marriage"--likely an adoption instead. Why? See previous statement. SOME of you obviously view this as arrogant or faithless on my part to say this--but YOU likely have no experience being a mid-single in this Church, and putting up with people like YOU. And you obviously MISSED the invisible "elephant in the room" within this Church. And that is that people TREAT you differently if you're single---mainly because they ASSUME things about you rather than truly get to know you!!! Many of your responses display such assumptions for sure!

Third--I woke up Sunday morning--after pondering most people's response to my letter. There was a certain tone, a certain tone of "judgment" that I was pondering--that I noticed throughout most of your comments. I mean--especially the people who claimed that unmarried people in the Church are "outliers", that 95% of those who attend activities geared somewhat for children have children--and the others are just, what, "different"---someone even commented on here that the majority of single people are not comfortable around children--nor should they be (cause, remember Michael Jackson).

Seriously people? Are we in the same Church??? Do we believe the same things?

And I realized--that your "answers" or "responses" are a perfect example of the assumptive attitude I was commenting about IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

Why, for example, do many members of the Church assume that 95% of those whom attend are married? I'll have you know that at the activity I had the experience I shared, only about 60% of those who attended had children of their own!!!

Why, for example, do many members of the Church assume that those whom are single are "outliers"? Excuse me? At this time in the Church it is almost 50/50--50% of adults are married, and 50% are not. And, really, SHOULD there be "outliers" in the Church?

I'll also have you know, that I and MANY of the single friends I have were raised faithful members of the Church, with dreams of families and large children. I was voted "most likely to have 12 children" by my high school peers. Life has just not worked out the way I "dreamed". I have 15+ years of experience with children. This does not make me "weird" or a "saint"--it makes me a typical Latter-Day Saint woman. I personally find those whom got married and now have 4 children, and NEVER had held a child before they had their first kid far more "weird" than me!!!

Lastly--this is the thought that came to my mind right when I woke up Sunday morning:

Did Christ point out to people He interacted with--whom He loved or wanted to show love to---what they didn't have--instead of who they truly were? Is that really an appropriate way to "give a compliment"?

Did he point out to the woman who touched His clothing in order to be healed from her "issue of blood" that "Thank you for touching my clothing--even though you are not whole." ? Did he point out to the woman who was about to be stoned "Thank you for coming, but your are not pure?" NO HE DID NOT!!!

Most of you assumed I was "royally" offended by what this woman said. No, I was not. She is a lovely woman--whom I think is very kind. I KNOW that she did not mean to say anything offensive. But, if you re-read what I asked originally, you will see that I asked about how to respond. Not because I was offended---but because I run into the same assumptive attitude many of YOU displayed within the Church on a regular basis, and it can be helpful to have a quick come-back--rather than standing there dumbfounded. Not so I can be rude back--but so I can leave with some dignity still in place.

But then--based upon the majority of your responses, most of you must not know how it feels to constantly have it pointed out to you what you DON'T have by members of the Church--instead of them truly trying to get to know you (or then judgingly telling you that you are the one at fault cause you're the "outlier" or "weird" one). It is the assumptions that are the problem here--and educating people is the only way to get them to think differently--obviously--or I would not have to write what I'm writing now--cause the responses in this forum would not have been full of assumptions about single people without children.

Oh--one last thought I had on Sunday morning....the only people Christ used to "point the invisible elephant out to"--or, in other words--the only people Christ used to point inappropriate "assumptive" judgments out to were His disciples when He was correcting their behavior--or the Pharisees and Saducces--usually because both groups of people were making assumptive judgments about others. Remember--it was a disciple whom Christ corrected and taught when the woman touched His clothing. It was the Pharisees/Saducces whom he corrected/taught with the woman who was about to be stoned. So--my question in response to those who made assumptions on this forum, in response to my question is: Which group do you belong to?

And this post illustrates to me completely why you are having trouble.

You can't even understand a simple statement about Michael Jackson without making it all about YOU.

Well, girlfriend, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU... or what group you think makes you separate from US. Take the chip off that shoulder and maybe the posts in this thread will make better sense.

[Milluw]

While i can absolutely sympatise with how you're feeling. Not nessicarily just with the urge of having children and a family, but in general when a person assumes something about you, without questioning it. It makes you wanna hit your head in a brickwall sometimes, lol. It can both be if you're not dressed in pretty clothes, if your not good at attending meetings, being socially akward, overweight, underweight, unattractive, by the age, modesty, a huge number of things. But if you notice this pattern, its not so much "the church and its ways", its just humans. Throughout the world.

Its a dangerous path to go down, to look at the evil within the church. Because oh yes, it is there. Because we're human, every single one of us. But its also out there. Its not nessicary to pretend to be blind, just to decide where you let your mind wander. You won't forget the paralleles in this world, by trying to see what is good at heart in this world and the people around you. It will only benefit you.

The church is a place for us all, and when you start telling yourself that you are an outsider because you don't seem to fit the sorroundings, you will slowly fade out to be so. Trust me, it's something i've had to deal with my entire life. I've been told by my sister that i'm probably the hardest person to actually truly get to know, and she's known me my whole life. Which ofcourse has led to many odd situations and assumptions about me. Because people need to label. And it's hard to label something without knowing its content. So when someone assumes and don't question their assumption, the best thing is really to pity the person that can't and won't make the effort to see farther than that. One day we will all understand, i truly believe that. Even when you feel like your blood is boiling. Yes, even when someone is being so obviously rude, don't let the anger get you.

Im not saying that you should'nt set your bounderies, you certainly should. If you're hurt, express it. And if the feelings are making you mute, give yourself a break. And then approach the woman/man when you're feelings have settled and you've thought of it all. Rather that, than risking to hurt another person. It could end up in a bad spiral, and get alot worse than it should have been.

Im not saying all of this because i think these are things you don't already know, you probably do. But you seem so hurt and frustrated with it all, that i though you might have lost clear sight for a moment. If not, then i apologize for my assumptions.

All i can say, is that when/if i get married in the future and have children. I wouldn't want anyone to judge me for being just another family-person. It's true that assumptions and generalisations are being thrown around, but more than just from one side, its probably both sided. Even if it's not with bad intentions, it is joining a bad spiral that needs to be broken.

And i do hope you will find the possibility to start a family one day.

Because you seem to have such a huge love and devotion to children, which i admire.

I thank you for being a good example of waiting and deciding to follow the Lords lead.

Any person that is in that situation's example is more greatly noticed than they often might think.

Wow, im gonna end this thing before it turns into a novel!

Thus, i end this with a quote :

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.

Dale Carnegie

[Milluw]

And this post illustrates to me completely why you are having trouble.

You can't even understand a simple statement about Michael Jackson without making it all about YOU.

Well, girlfriend, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU... or what group you think makes you separate from US. Take the chip off that shoulder and maybe the posts in this thread will make better sense.

How was that constructive? The big picture might not be all about her alone, but this thread is actually exactly about her situation, feelings and reactions towards it. Even if there might be some harsh words, its quite obvious that she is very sensitive to this situation. If you really wanted to help her by responding to her thread, wouldn't it make much more sense to use what she writes for thought, to perhaps help her out of the mindset you seem to dislike?

[Tarnished]

People are always going to assume things. Always. And sadly many people will say things from those assumptions not realizing the effect those words have. I know even I have been guilty of it.

Sadly in the church when a person shows up single or childless or basically not fitting the "norm" of the other families assumptions are made about their choices in life. My husband and I struggled with infertility for 10 years and came across many assumptions and many comments which just hurt. Eventually I just stopped going to church on Mother's day. It was easier for me.

In the end though I just got to a point where I realized I just had to ignore what people said for the most part. My brother in law is a mid-single and I can only imagine what he goes through. I have seen the way his family treats him and it has not been nice. Some of his siblings think that he just doesn't want to get married or that he hates women, and many other things. The truth is that he has been trying but has not been successful at finding someone. I think it is difficult for people to understand that there are different circumstances for everyone out there. The best bet is to not assume. And even better is to just keep your mouth shut instead of opening it and possibly being rude.