My Bishop bugs me...


JosephVelder
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I know complaining about church leaders is the beginning of apostasy blah, blah, blah,:rolleyes: but not to worry, I am no-where near apostasizing. I just have to get this off my chest.

Do I have the only Bishop out there that makes it a habit to stand up in between member testimonies and cold calling random members to "share" their testimony during Fast Sunday.

So far he has gotten me up there three times in the last six months. I don't mind sharing my testimony since I stick to the basics and don't do a storymony but I feel that the decision to share your testimony is a personal one and not to be decided upon by someone else :unsure:

He usually calls at least two people every time, no matter how well the flow is going or how very little dead time there is between testimonies.

Is there something that can be done about this? I am not the only one in our ward that feels this way, some of us have discussed this outside of church.

What to do? :angry2:

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You say you've discussed it outside of church. Did any of those discussions include the Bishop? Has anyone approached him directly to share with him how uncomfortable they are with being "cold-called" to bare a Testimony? I find that if you have a problem with someone, often the best way to deal with the problem is to speak directly with that someone.

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i don't know of a Bishop who isn't warm and approachable, obviously people can view them differently, but this doesn't change these aspects of their nature. God calls Bishops forth because they have what it takes the guide their ward in the Gospel, i have faith in saying that if you approached your Bishop about this specific problem, he would ponder upon it and change... no church member would purposefully commit an action that they know would cause disruption and upset in the minds of other people. Have faith and speak with him :) let me know how it goes!

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That is a weird situation, and i have never had a bishop do that, but I have had bishops hint to members to fill in the lulls on occasion, but it is done before the meeting, or he has a set of people who he knows he can count on for strong testimonies. "Brother X, your son's on a mission. I bet the ward would love to hear how he is doing."

One thing nice about the church structure, leaders are only in that position for a while, and who knows. maybe one day, you will be charged with making Fast Sunday more spiritually enlightening.

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he has been bishop in this ward for 11 of the last 13 years, he is friendly but has a difficult personality to get along with in and out of church, and none of us that have a problem with this would feel comfortable approaching him with this from prior experiences with him on other issues, ever heard of "my way or the highway" attitude? that is him.

just wondering if there is something in the big blue or big red book that would advise against what he is doing.

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Whew, I'm glad this doesn't happen in my ward! I sit pretty close to the front and being beige in a sea of white faces, I know the bishop can see me. Well, today's testimonies really got to me as I was thinking about my own situation. I started sniffling, then tears, and had to pull out a hankie. I kept thinking, 'Oh please don't call on me. Please don't think I have a testimony because I'm sitting here crying.' Even my missionary was looking at me sideways. I guess I would have fumbled through something, but I'm glad I didn't have to. I was also a mess in Gospel Principles but got myself together for RS.

I never had it this rough going to Mass. What is with LDS and all the emotion?!

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I believe it is the spirit tugging at ya! just go with it! it is testament to the truth!

Actually one needs to be careful to separate strong emotions that can (often) accompany the feeling of the spirit with the feeling of the spirit itself. If we don't we can mistake high emotions for a spiritual experience or discount the spirit because it didn't move us to tears.

To quote President Hunter:

“I get concerned when it appears that strong emotion or free-flowing tears are equated with the presence of the Spirit. Certainly the Spirit of the Lord can bring strong emotional feelings, including tears, but that outward manifestation ought not to be confused with the presence of the Spirit itself."

And:

“I have watched a great many of my brethren over the years and we have shared some rare and unspeakable spiritual experiences together. Those experiences have all been different, each special in its own way, and such sacred moments may or may not be accompanied by tears. Very often they are, but sometimes they are accompanied by total silence. Other times they are accompanied by joy. Always they are accompanied by a great manifestation of the truth, of revelation to the heart. …

Quoted in: Teaching, No Greater Call: A Resource Guide for Gospel Teaching Lesson 9: Recognizing and Following the Spirit in Your Teaching

Note: I'm not saying Dahlia wasn't feeling the spirit as noted tears or strong emotions are often accompaniments to feeling the spirit. And I don't think you were claiming that emotions = spirit. Your comment just called the quote to mind.

Edited by Dravin
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After the sacrament, the bishopric member who is conducting the meeting bears a brief testimony. He then invites members to bear heartfelt testimonies and to relate faith-promoting experiences. The bishopric encourages members to keep their testimonies brief so more people may have the opportunity to participate.

I checked the handbook under Ward Meetings this is an excerpt from it. I've never heard of a Bishop calling people up during a meeting to give testimony. Looking at the portion in bold I guess it depends on how you interpret inviting. It has always been an open invitation to whomever decides to come up I thought but I can see how it could be interpreted to mean a more direct approach such as how that Bishop is doing.

I don't like being put on the spot, I guess if I didn't feel the spirit prompting me to get up I simply wouldn't. The only advice I can suggest is to talk to him directly, considering how long he has been Bishop he might simply be doing what has always been done because 10 years ago members needed the direct approach.

You and the others might take some heat for voicing your concerns however that is the burden of the gospel at times.

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FWIW: I think the reason the Church has always been so cagey about the handbook, is because they don't want to set up this "members versus the bishop" mentality where the members second-guess everything the bishop does.

Practically speaking - if you don't want the bishop to put you on the spot like that, talk to him privately. If he keeps doing it, all you can really do is make sure you aren't in the chapel during testimony meeting.

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I don't think I would like to be put on the spot like that. I bore my testimony a few months ago because I felt moved by the spirit to do so. Today, I didn't feel moved to do so. I think that is the beauty of a testimony meeting... the spirit moving people to go up to the podium.. and not knowing who will be called to do it next.

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...but I feel that the decision to share your testimony is a personal one and not to be decided upon by someone else :unsure:.

I completely agree with this. I very rarely share my testimony in Sacrament meeting. I have no problem with my testimony or with public speaking -- I just don't like to do it extemporaneously like that. Today however, I did share my testimony. Last week was ward conference, and the stake YW presidency (I'm the ward YW president) asked me if I was sharing my testimony with my girls at every opportunity. I know that I'm not, and I felt prompted today to do so. It turns out that nine of my eleven girls were present and heard me. I was glad that I followed the prompting today, though I don't know that I'll be making it a fast and testimony meeting habit.

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I had a problem with my branch president that did similar "funny" things during sacrament meeting and in how he conducted the affairs of the branch. I was his counselor and didn't feel comfortable with what he was doing and it was really getting to me. The BP basically said he had all authority in the branch to do "as directed by the Spirit" and that was that, even if the his counselors didn't feel the same way.

After talking with my father who was a bishop on the left coast at the time I decided to ask my Stake President for a meeting. In that meeting I told the SP I was having hard feelings towards my BP and asked him for advice on how to overcome the feelings. In the process of the discussion, it came out what was causing the feelings. The SP told me I had done the right thing in coming to him and in how I presented the problem as my problem and not the BP's problem. While he didn't say my BP was in the wrong, he said he would have to have a talk with him.

He gave me counsel that I will NEVER forget and it was a very enriching experience. I moved not to long after, but hearing from friends in the branch, things eventually improved.

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great advise guys, I guess I will have to suck it up and talk to him.

Kgrigio, I will follow your example on approaching him and tell him that I need have a problem I need help dealing with and not put it as him being wrong.

LDS Valley, thanks for posting the handbook paragraph, I can see how he could interpret it to mean what he is doing.

I will talk to him this wednesday evening and I shall return and report!

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I had a problem with my branch president that did similar "funny" things during sacrament meeting and in how he conducted the affairs of the branch. I was his counselor and didn't feel comfortable with what he was doing and it was really getting to me. The BP basically said he had all authority in the branch to do "as directed by the Spirit" and that was that, even if the his counselors didn't feel the same way.

After talking with my father who was a bishop on the left coast at the time I decided to ask my Stake President for a meeting. In that meeting I told the SP I was having hard feelings towards my BP and asked him for advice on how to overcome the feelings. In the process of the discussion, it came out what was causing the feelings. The SP told me I had done the right thing in coming to him and in how I presented the problem as my problem and not the BP's problem. While he didn't say my BP was in the wrong, he said he would have to have a talk with him.

He gave me counsel that I will NEVER forget and it was a very enriching experience. I moved not to long after, but hearing from friends in the branch, things eventually improved.

Excellent way of handling it.

I do find it rather strange IMHO that a bishop would feel spiritual promptings to make people bare testimonies and other such things. He may be over the ward, but some things are still very personal.

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I know complaining about church leaders is the beginning of apostasy blah, blah, blah,:rolleyes: but not to worry, I am no-where near apostasizing. I just have to get this off my chest.

Do I have the only Bishop out there that makes it a habit to stand up in between member testimonies and cold calling random members to "share" their testimony during Fast Sunday.

So far he has gotten me up there three times in the last six months. I don't mind sharing my testimony since I stick to the basics and don't do a storymony but I feel that the decision to share your testimony is a personal one and not to be decided upon by someone else :unsure:

He usually calls at least two people every time, no matter how well the flow is going or how very little dead time there is between testimonies.

Is there something that can be done about this? I am not the only one in our ward that feels this way, some of us have discussed this outside of church.

What to do? :angry2:

well the onlyone I"ve actually heard about doing that.. however as advice on how to do a fast and testimony meeting has occasionally ben sent by the presidency or the general authorities i'm sure its not unique.. In this case I can't see much wrong with it, but if you feel it needs to be broached I think the example given by Kgrigio is probably the way to do it.

the purpose of sacrament is twofold- to renew our covenants and to testify of christ for the edification of saints.. Sometimes we aresked to testify of certain things and other times were given time to testify of what we want.

now while the church has organised it so it pretty much works like clock work, the method we have is not set in scripture.

Edited by Blackmarch
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I'd handle it by getting up and giving the following testimony:

I know that through the atonement of Christ, we can overcome all our trials and adversities. Even those imposed upon us by well-meaning priesthood leaders making dumb decisions that cause some of us to feel very uncomfortable at our worship services.

Then I'd sit down.

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I know this may sound like a renegade idea, but the next time he asks you to bear your testimony, just nod your head 'no'. Why would that be so terrible? It wouldn't be because you don't have a testimony at that time, it's just that you'd maybe prefer to keep it personal during that moment. Just like partaking of the sacrament, one week you may feel like it, the next maybe not. It doesn't make you any less of a person because you didn't partake of it that one week. Are we now made to bear our testimonies just to keep up with appearances?! Who knows, maybe others might see this and follow your lead. Again, it's not saying that you don't have a testimony, it just that some things some people would rather keep personal than make it public. Nothing wrong with that.

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I know this may sound like a renegade idea, but the next time he asks you to bear your testimony, just nod your head 'no'. Why would that be so terrible? It wouldn't be because you don't have a testimony at that time, it's just that you'd maybe prefer to keep it personal during that moment. Just like partaking of the sacrament, one week you may feel like it, the next maybe not. It doesn't make you any less of a person because you didn't partake of it that one week. Are we now made to bear our testimonies just to keep up with appearances?! Who knows, maybe others might see this and follow your lead. Again, it's not saying that you don't have a testimony, it just that some things some people would rather keep personal than make it public. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree with this. Nothing wrong with saying no. A testimony should be shared, of course, but not at the whim of someone else.

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Guest mormonmusic
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I find that unless leaders are LOOKING for feedback from their members, it's not appreciated. Therefore, I would deal with this through avoidance. I would check out of the meeting if he starts doing it again. If several people have also suggested this is a problem, you might suggest they individually approach the Bishop and share their feelings so the breadth of the problem is clear to him.

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Or you could look at this a totally different way ... not just how uncomfortable it makes one. We have all as members of teh church at one time or another raised our hand and sustained our leaders. In doing so we are basically agreeing that these men are called of God. Maybe ... just maybe ... there is someone in the congregation who needs to hear what you have to say no matter how off the cuff ... and the Lord has passed this message on to your Bishop ... go with the flow ... just remember the blessings that come from obedienance. In the whole scheme of things whats as a few uncomfortable moments when compared to the help it might be. I adore my bishop and SP and they both have a habit of doing things like this ... no big deal.

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We have all as members of teh church at one time or another raised our hand and sustained our leaders.

Sustaining your leaders could also include discussing how their behaviour effects you and possibly others (with them). One needs to be loving and constructive about it though. If a primary teacher was teaching in a way that was offending children would we say, "We sustained them, maybe the kids need this?" Chances are we'd talk to them about it or have somebody in stewardship over them talk with them about it.

Letting a leader know, in a loving and constructive way, how their actions are affecting you certainly isn't not sustaining them. Now if one is having a carping session in the foyer then I think it's fair enough to say you've wondered out of loving and constructive territory.

Edited by Dravin
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Not every Bishop is approachable as we would like. If you remember in the beginning the poster said he was a my way or the highway kind of guy. That would be intimidating to many. Asking for advice from this forum is a good sounding board. You get lots of ideas and different perspectives, enabling you to make the right decision on how to handle the situation. Sadly some,not many get a bit to judgmental and that really isn't helpful at all . Be positive, supportive and helpful.

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Or you could look at this a totally different way ... not just how uncomfortable it makes one. We have all as members of teh church at one time or another raised our hand and sustained our leaders. In doing so we are basically agreeing that these men are called of God. Maybe ... just maybe ... there is someone in the congregation who needs to hear what you have to say no matter how off the cuff ... and the Lord has passed this message on to your Bishop ... go with the flow ... just remember the blessings that come from obedienance. In the whole scheme of things whats as a few uncomfortable moments when compared to the help it might be. I adore my bishop and SP and they both have a habit of doing things like this ... no big deal.

And that's why this wouldn't bothered me if it happened infrequently. But when it happens every testimony meeting, I get a little suspicious that it's an inspired action.

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