Possession / exorcism


twort
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:confused:I've heard a number of Mormon myths about exorcism and possession, but does anyone know what either the official word from the top is on possession is, or at least what the general concensus is? How do church leaders deal with percieved possession? What is a Mormon exorcism like? Just curious - I know this isn't necessary for my salvation everyone... that's not what I'm asking.

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Mormonism does not have an "exorcism" per-se. I've not heard about any outside of anecdotal stories concerning the driving out of evil spirits. We believe in the healing by the laying on of hands after anointing a person with oil and pronouncing a blessing, as guided by the Holy Spirit and in the name of Jesus Christ by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood, which the person giving the blessing will be ordained to. If the Holy Spirit so dictates to drive out evil, then so be it. But it's not a formal and distinct act (for lack of a better word).

So the short answer would be: there is no dictated or formal exorcism in the church. It is handled by the healing power of the Priesthood Blessing, if the person giving the blessing is so prompted by the Holy Ghost to do so.

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I don't know the current statements of the church with regard to possession or exorcism. I think it rarely occurs, but, a companionship within my district (on my mission of course) witnessed someone they perceived to be possessed by an evil entity. I have heard many other rumors and stories of missionaries casting out devils too.

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Fiance and went and saw The Rite the other weekend (good movie, I recommend it if you like stuff like that). The movie is based on true events, and at the end it mentioned that one of the main characters is one of only 14 practicing Catholic exorcists in the United States. I jokingly said that didn't make me feel very comfortable, and my fiance rolled his eyes and said he would be happy to use the priesthood in the case of a possession rather than trying to find one of 14 US exorcists.

Personally, I do believe possession and exorcism happen in the LDS church. If anyone finds official LDS statements on it, great, but it may be one of those things that simply falls under priesthood duty.

I remember being 13 and going to girls' camp and people (including adults) saying one of the girls in another ward was possessed (I did know my priesthood leaders did have to go to that campsite). But I was 13 and girls' camp is a rumor mill so...

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Probably not as dramatic as what you're looking for, but Joseph Smith said he was physically bound by the devil - to a point where he couldn't even speak.

A few years later Newell Knight had a possession. Joseph expelled the demon as follows (H of C v1 p82-3):

After he had thus suffered for a time, I succeeded in getting hold of him by the hand, when almost immediately he spoke to me, and with great earnestness requested me to cast the devil out of him, saying that he knew he was in him, and that he also knew that I could cast him out.

I replied, "If you know that I can, it shall be done," and then almost unconsciously I rebuked the devil, and commanded him in the name of Jesus Christ to depart from him; when immediately Newel spoke out and said that he saw the devil leave him and vanish from his sight. This was the first miracle which was done in the Church.

Edited by mordorbund
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:confused:I've heard a number of Mormon myths about exorcism and possession, but does anyone know what either the official word from the top is on possession is, or at least what the general concensus is? How do church leaders deal with percieved possession? What is a Mormon exorcism like? Just curious - I know this isn't necessary for my salvation everyone... that's not what I'm asking.

posessions happen. scariest experiences i've ever heard...

the way that priesthood bearers exorcise is that they just command the devil to leave the body by the name of christ and by the priest hood they hold. They tend to be fairly simple.

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I've been involved in a couple exorcisms - once on my mission. In that instance, we got the mission president's counsel on what to do. 1. Fast and pray 2. Fast and pray 3. Fast and pray 4. See 1-3

Even Jesus noted that possessions can be tricky things, and that sometimes a spirit that has been cast out will return with others to an empty vessel. Not a fun experience, and one I'd prefer not having again.

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Fiance and went and saw The Rite the other weekend (good movie, I recommend it if you like stuff like that). The movie is based on true events, and at the end it mentioned that one of the main characters is one of only 14 practicing Catholic exorcists in the United States. I jokingly said that didn't make me feel very comfortable, and my fiance rolled his eyes and said he would be happy to use the priesthood in the case of a possession rather than trying to find one of 14 US exorcists.

Personally, I do believe possession and exorcism happen in the LDS church. If anyone finds official LDS statements on it, great, but it may be one of those things that simply falls under priesthood duty.

I remember being 13 and going to girls' camp and people (including adults) saying one of the girls in another ward was possessed (I did know my priesthood leaders did have to go to that campsite). But I was 13 and girls' camp is a rumor mill so...

Uhm... the movie is as true as the DaVinci Code. It's a masterful intertwining of fact and fiction so that you don't see where one ends and the other begins. For example - there is no Michael Kovak, the mortician turned exorcist who now exorcises in Chicago. And there's no Father Lucas either.

Yes, there's a 2-month exorcism course in Rome, but that's about the only factual thing in that movie.

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Uhm... the movie is as true as the DaVinci Code. It's a masterful intertwining of fact and fiction so that you don't see where one ends and the other begins. For example - there is no Michael Kovak, the mortician turned exorcist who now exorcises in Chicago. And there's no Father Lucas either.

Yes, there's a 2-month exorcism course in Rome, but that's about the only factual thing in that movie.

Hence, based on true events. My brother works in film, I know history, I can tell the difference... we researched it, it is linked to real people and real events. It was more factual than the events The Exorcist were based upon--perhaps the most boring series of events ever turned horror movie.

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Hence, based on true events. My brother works in film, I know history, I can tell the difference... we researched it, it is linked to real people and real events. It was more factual than the events The Exorcist were based upon--perhaps the most boring series of events ever turned horror movie.

Uhm... no. It's not "based" on true events. It is "inspired" by true events. There's a difference. The former has an obligation to stick with reality, the 2nd doesn't. But, I agree, the Rite is closer to reality than the Exorcist is according to my perception of it.

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Uhm... no. It's not "based" on true events. It is "inspired" by true events. There's a difference. The former has an obligation to stick with reality, the 2nd doesn't. But, I agree, the Rite is closer to reality than the Exorcist is according to my perception of it.

I'll give you that, then. :peace:

According to my brother, however, there is no solid definition between "Based" and "inspired"; it's all consumer perspective.

Edited by Backroads
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Not a fun experience, and one I'd prefer not having again.

Since it sounds like you are saying you've been possessed:confused:, and this post is about possessions and exorcisms, could you expound? You've sure got my attention.

I feel like once, while I was on my mission in Asia, I came across a man who was possessed. He came into the church though, I'm not sure how that fares with our beliefs... He told me I was doing Gods work, cursed me, and tried to steal the ring a good friend and convert gave me. I told him to leave, and he did.

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I wonder if there is a relationship between possession and a spirit losing control of her body. In other words, can an evil spirit really kick one's spirit out of the driver's seat or can the evil spirit only jump in if 'the car is left running in the driveway with the keys in the ignition'?

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I wonder if there is a relationship between possession and a spirit losing control of her body. In other words, can an evil spirit really kick one's spirit out of the driver's seat or can the evil spirit only jump in if 'the car is left running in the driveway with the keys in the ignition'?

From the events at the grove, I don't think this is the case... I mean, it could be the case in some but, surely not all.

A lot of the exorcism in the Philippines happen to the most devout Catholics.

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Although it's a curiousity and something fun to talk about, I sortof think that possession is very very rare. I'm thinking that most, if not all possessions are mental illnesses, cries for help or attention, or crazy parents trying to justify a wayward child. I always hear anecdotal occurances that happen to "a friend's mission companion's investigater" or some other distant connection. And when the occurrances are first person experiences, the person either refuses to talk about them in the name of piety, or overplays the actual occurance.

I guess I'd say that I'm sceptical at best that possession should even be considered as a possibility when noticing personality changes in people close to us. I also think SeminarySnoozer is on the right track... if possessions do happen today, it seems like they almost need to be invited in...

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Although it's a curiousity and something fun to talk about, I sortof think that possession is very very rare. I'm thinking that most, if not all possessions are mental illnesses, cries for help or attention, or crazy parents trying to justify a wayward child. I always hear anecdotal occurances that happen to "a friend's mission companion's investigater" or some other distant connection. And when the occurrances are first person experiences, the person either refuses to talk about them in the name of piety, or overplays the actual occurance.

I guess I'd say that I'm sceptical at best that possession should even be considered as a possibility when noticing personality changes in people close to us. I also think SeminarySnoozer is on the right track... if possessions do happen today, it seems like they almost need to be invited in...

Posessions are very rare, and i have absolotely no idea how a spirit can get such power over another. Quite possibly most possessions in written records are probably some health deficiency rather than actual posessions, that is reasonable.

I think that most true posessions are invited in, but I cannot recall anything authoritive that explicitly confirms this. The best defense far as i know is relying upon the Lord. Nor is there anything that explicitly states what constitutes an invitation.

(IMO if the Holy Ghost is not there it's probably fair game.. but that can't be all to it as posessions do tend to be rare)

For identifying an actual posession (from records), I mainly use this qualifier: It will affect someone or something else in a very unique way, and then affect someone else also in a unique manner (generally not the same as the first).

For instance in the Bible the man with the many devils, can be identified as a posession because of what happened with the pigs at the exact time the spirit was cast out (besides him being able to identify the savior right off the bat)

Or When the false preachers tried to exorcise a spirit.

Edited by Blackmarch
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Although it's a curiousity and something fun to talk about, I sortof think that possession is very very rare. I'm thinking that most, if not all possessions are mental illnesses, cries for help or attention, or crazy parents trying to justify a wayward child. I always hear anecdotal occurances that happen to "a friend's mission companion's investigater" or some other distant connection. And when the occurrances are first person experiences, the person either refuses to talk about them in the name of piety, or overplays the actual occurance.

I guess I'd say that I'm sceptical at best that possession should even be considered as a possibility when noticing personality changes in people close to us. I also think SeminarySnoozer is on the right track... if possessions do happen today, it seems like they almost need to be invited in...

I don't think anyone should jump the gun at evil spirits when it is very likely mental or something.

Though I heard a very interesting reverse of that (from someone who agrees that most "possessions" are in fact not) that there could be cases in what we assume to be a mental disorder is in fact... a possession.

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Posessions are very rare, and i have absolotely no idea how a spirit can get such power over another. Quite possibly most possessions in written records are probably some health deficiency rather than actual posessions, that is reasonable.

I think that most true posessions are invited in, but I cannot recall anything authoritive that explicitly confirms this. The best defense far as i know is relying upon the Lord. Nor is there anything that explicitly states what constitutes an invitation.

(IMO if the Holy Ghost is not there it's probably fair game.. but that can't be all to it as posessions do tend to be rare)

For identifying an actual posession (from records), I mainly use this qualifier: It will affect someone or something else in a very unique way, and then affect someone else also in a unique manner (generally not the same as the first).

For instance in the Bible the man with the many devils, can be identified as a posession because of what happened with the pigs at the exact time the spirit was cast out (besides him being able to identify the savior right off the bat)

Or When the false preachers tried to exorcise a spirit.

Thanks, I have a hard time understanding how more than one spirit can possess a body. If we believe that the spirit fills the space and conforms to the shape of the body in its whole and that spirit matter is finer than physical matter then how could more than one spirit occupy the same space?

And, if they can't occupy the same space then what happens to the spirit of the person when they are possessed? By definition that would mean the spirit has separated from the body and that is what we call death. So, when the spirit comes back to the body that would be birth again. We say though that once we die and the spirit reunites with the body it will never again be separated.

I think a better description of "possessed" if it really exists is being heavily influenced by evil spirits to the point of the persons spirit not maintaining control of the body. I don't think another spirit can control a body that doesn't belong to that spirit only by way of influence, not direct control.

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It is my opinion and understanding (including experience) that there are various spirits that dwell among us here on earth as we attempt to live out our “fallen estate”. We are influenced by spirits - be they holy and clean or unholy and unclean. Their influence comes in various degrees.

Can a person be converted and know of Jesus Christ and not be influenced by a clean spirit? I think not.

I also believe that it is impossible to be angry with anyone and to swear and cuss without some level of influence from a unholy spirit. Can a person swear or lie and not be influenced by an unclean spirit? I think not.

Alma taught that we will be resurrected with the same spirit that influences before we die. Jesus taught that we do the bidding of our Father - be it our Father in Heaven or the Father of lies.

I believe we also know that righteousness will not prevent evil influences. I am not sure to what point a person is held accountable when they are influenced by an unclean spirit. However, I do believe that repentance (change of mind and heart) is a kind of exorcism and that all have need of repentance - including me. I believe it wise and good to seek a priesthood blessing to help with one’s repentance.

One last point - Yes a spirit can take over a person - this is not a uncommon occurrence in the continuing war that began in heaven and continues in these Last Days.

The Traveler

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It is my opinion and understanding (including experience) that there are various spirits that dwell among us here on earth as we attempt to live out our “fallen estate”. We are influenced by spirits - be they holy and clean or unholy and unclean. Their influence comes in various degrees.

Can a person be converted and know of Jesus Christ and not be influenced by a clean spirit? I think not.

I also believe that it is impossible to be angry with anyone and to swear and cuss without some level of influence from a unholy spirit. Can a person swear or lie and not be influenced by an unclean spirit? I think not.

Alma taught that we will be resurrected with the same spirit that influences before we die. Jesus taught that we do the bidding of our Father - be it our Father in Heaven or the Father of lies.

I believe we also know that righteousness will not prevent evil influences. I am not sure to what point a person is held accountable when they are influenced by an unclean spirit. However, I do believe that repentance (change of mind and heart) is a kind of exorcism and that all have need of repentance - including me. I believe it wise and good to seek a priesthood blessing to help with one’s repentance.

One last point - Yes a spirit can take over a person - this is not a uncommon occurrence in the continuing war that began in heaven and continues in these Last Days.

The Traveler

So, how can you tell if a person is "taken over" by an evil spirit versus just heavily influenced by one?

In the first part of your post you suggest that we are constantly influenced by spirits both good and bad, which I totally agree. But then you say with conviction that a "spirit can take over a person", in fact you say it is not uncommon. If that is true, what is it that tells you that a spirit has taken over the body of the person and not just influenced it so much that the control of the person is left to these influences like a customer in the back seat of a cab telling the cab driver where to go. This, as opposed to the customer pushing the cab driver out of the driver seat and driving himself - so to speak.

I don't see how you can be so sure, how you can tell the difference. Please explain how you distinguish those two things. Thanks.

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So, how can you tell if a person is "taken over" by an evil spirit versus just heavily influenced by one?

In the first part of your post you suggest that we are constantly influenced by spirits both good and bad, which I totally agree. But then you say with conviction that a "spirit can take over a person", in fact you say it is not uncommon. If that is true, what is it that tells you that a spirit has taken over the body of the person and not just influenced it so much that the control of the person is left to these influences like a customer in the back seat of a cab telling the cab driver where to go. This, as opposed to the customer pushing the cab driver out of the driver seat and driving himself - so to speak.

I don't see how you can be so sure, how you can tell the difference. Please explain how you distinguish those two things. Thanks.

I believe the scriptures are quite clear on this. The influences of say an unclean sprit begin with what scripture describes as flaxen cords - cords that are easily broken. But then they become more entwined and eventually the unclean spirit controls their host as though with great chains.

I believe you are looking for some fine line by which someone loses control but the scriptures warn that submitting even to flaxen cords threatens one’s agency. To which the fool argues - I can break away from these whenever I want. This is one example

However, we do have other examples where Satan takes control of even righteous. Perhaps the best example is when Satan took Jesus and forced him to a high mountain to tempt him.

The Traveler

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I believe the scriptures are quite clear on this. The influences of say an unclean sprit begin with what scripture describes as flaxen cords - cords that are easily broken. But then they become more entwined and eventually the unclean spirit controls their host as though with great chains.

I believe you are looking for some fine line by which someone loses control but the scriptures warn that submitting even to flaxen cords threatens one’s agency. To which the fool argues - I can break away from these whenever I want. This is one example

However, we do have other examples where Satan takes control of even righteous. Perhaps the best example is when Satan took Jesus and forced him to a high mountain to tempt him.

The Traveler

Most LDS believe, according to the Joseph Smith translation, that the spirit took him to the high mountain, not Satan. Satan is not given that power.

The reason to make that distinction though is that I think some think that "possession" means that an evil spirit has taken over control of that body which is different than talking about a process in which a person, by choice, allows the influences of evil spirits change their own spirits desire. When said that way, the person is not someone other than themselves. I think most people when they hear about "possession" they consider that person as not being themselves. That is different than one slowly changing over time allowing evil influences to change how they act.

How a person feels about this would be revealed by asking if one thinks the person will be held responsible for their actions while "possessed". If one thinks that it is possible for an evil spirit to hijack the body and do what he pleases then she would say that the person possessed by the evil spirit is not held responsible for those actions. If one thinks that the "possession" is by slow invitation then the person still would be responsible for those actions as it is a result of their choice to invite that spirit.

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Most LDS believe, according to the Joseph Smith translation, that the spirit took him to the high mountain, not Satan. Satan is not given that power.

The reason to make that distinction though is that I think some think that "possession" means that an evil spirit has taken over control of that body which is different than talking about a process in which a person, by choice, allows the influences of evil spirits change their own spirits desire. When said that way, the person is not someone other than themselves. I think most people when they hear about "possession" they consider that person as not being themselves. That is different than one slowly changing over time allowing evil influences to change how they act.

How a person feels about this would be revealed by asking if one thinks the person will be held responsible for their actions while "possessed". If one thinks that it is possible for an evil spirit to hijack the body and do what he pleases then she would say that the person possessed by the evil spirit is not held responsible for those actions. If one thinks that the "possession" is by slow invitation then the person still would be responsible for those actions as it is a result of their choice to invite that spirit.

Interesting - however, I do not recall Jesus ever holding someone accountable being controlled be an unclean spirit. There seem to be parallels to someone being sick. I have mixed thoughts here - especially with what we call mental illness. I am quite sure as well that homosexuality and various addictions is a result of unclean spiritual influences.

The Traveler

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