Possession / exorcism


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Thanks, I have a hard time understanding how more than one spirit can possess a body. If we believe that the spirit fills the space and conforms to the shape of the body in its whole and that spirit matter is finer than physical matter then how could more than one spirit occupy the same space?

And, if they can't occupy the same space then what happens to the spirit of the person when they are possessed? By definition that would mean the spirit has separated from the body and that is what we call death. So, when the spirit comes back to the body that would be birth again. We say though that once we die and the spirit reunites with the body it will never again be separated.

I think a better description of "possessed" if it really exists is being heavily influenced by evil spirits to the point of the persons spirit not maintaining control of the body. I don't think another spirit can control a body that doesn't belong to that spirit only by way of influence, not direct control.

 

Thanks, I have a hard time understanding how more than one spirit can possess a body. If we believe that the spirit fills the space and conforms to the shape of the body in its whole and that spirit matter is finer than physical matter then how could more than one spirit occupy the same space?

And, if they can't occupy the same space then what happens to the spirit of the person when they are possessed? By definition that would mean the spirit has separated from the body and that is what we call death. So, when the spirit comes back to the body that would be birth again. We say though that once we die and the spirit reunites with the body it will never again be separated.

I think a better description of "possessed" if it really exists is being heavily influenced by evil spirits to the point of the persons spirit not maintaining control of the body. I don't think another spirit can control a body that doesn't belong to that spirit only by way of influence, not direct control.

Pleased to meet you all.  This is quite a touchy subject for me due to past experiences.  Yes, it is indeed real, and in each instance I've seen it occur, it was invited in.  There's a quote in Joseph Smith: The Prophet that states that evil cannot hide from a true follower of Christ.  (paraphrased).

In the cases that I saw, depending on the time, they had no control over their own bodies.  So yes, I believe once invited in, things can happen...  that we give our agency away, and we no longer have agency.  Evil is real and it's not to be played around with.

That being said, the power of the priesthood is real...  Of that I have no doubts.  Evil has power to scare us.  But that's about all it can do unless we give more power to it.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Fiance and went and saw The Rite the other weekend (good movie, I recommend it if you like stuff like that). The movie is based on true events, and at the end it mentioned that one of the main characters is one of only 14 practicing Catholic exorcists in the United States. I jokingly said that didn't make me feel very comfortable, and my fiance rolled his eyes and said he would be happy to use the priesthood in the case of a possession rather than trying to find one of 14 US exorcists.

Personally, I do believe possession and exorcism happen in the LDS church. If anyone finds official LDS statements on it, great, but it may be one of those things that simply falls under priesthood duty.

I remember being 13 and going to girls' camp and people (including adults) saying one of the girls in another ward was possessed (I did know my priesthood leaders did have to go to that campsite). But I was 13 and girls' camp is a rumor mill so...

Popular media portrayals aside, Catholic priests don't go around performing exorcisms on a daily basis.Actual demonic possession is viewed as extremely rare by the Catholic Church. Exorcists are trained to discern if possession is occurring, or something else going on. The Rite is not performed "just in case".

There is also the matter of not giving the devil his due by focusing unnecessarily on training every priest for something they most likely will never do.

Edited by blueskye
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I have heard theories such as that astral projection and even practices like yoga can leave you spiritually vulnerable to opening up to attracting evil spirits. But also i have heard that a spirit cannot enter you unless you welcome them - sometimes unknowingly and through deceit, others fully aware. A lot of the theories i came by also claimed that it is not as uncommen as we think. And that in fact many people work with those darker forces, and that it is not always just a sitting duck that gets possesed. As you can probably imagine, it is snowball theories that a lot of others spring out from too.. so emphasis on theories.

 

 

I only know that spirits will talk to and decieve people that naively reach out to them. Not from personally doing so, but i knew a friend in my teens who especially dabbled with it and wanted to show it to me one day, which he did. Direct possession though, i have not seen with my own eyes. That is - what i know of.. another theory goes too - that sometimes people walk with bad spirits, not nessicarily looking as in something like The Exorsist. Could imagine mental illness has a play in it, if so. Schizofrenia is often mentioned in this regard.

 

 

It is all from conspiracy theories  i came by on youtube though, so besides a bit of biblical interpertation accompanied with them, it is not something i myself have been able to confirm or disprove. Just theories to think about. And all very hear-say :)
 

Edited by Milluw
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Joseph smith got posessed when he tried to pray to God in the grove.
I don't think one always needs to invite one to have something occur. (altho i think doing things that do invite them is far more probable... but even that's rare and first even rarer).

As for diseases/ mental instability I think that could account for some incidents recorded in history. However people, animals, bacteria, and viruses have bounds on what they can do. Somehting outside those bounds i'd be more inclined to believe as a  result from some sort of spirit influence

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That's a bit of a stretch of what most, reasonably, would think of the meaning of "possessed".

why is it a stretch? I can't really think of any other term for something that's temporary. I know its used to describe various practices in africa where practitioners are supposedly posessed and become some sort of medium for a short while. as far as I'm aware there really isn't much common terminology for the different kinds of demonic attacks. Whether it's one minute or a whole life, partial or total... posession is posession as far as I'm concerned.

it didn't last long but it happened against his will- it forced him to not be able to speak, and was killing him... or at least had him convinced of his destruction- so it had posession of those parts of him for the moment before it driven out by God.

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Joseph smith got posessed when he tried to pray to God in the grove.

I don't think one always needs to invite one to have something occur. (altho i think doing things that do invite them is far more probable... but even that's rare and first even rarer).

 

That might also be. One can only wonder.

 

Perhaps we are more protected than what we know of, when we choose to do right. It could be that God allowed Joseph Smith to go through that, for whatever reason. Somehow if demons can that "easily" possess a human, i can't help but think that we would be real sitting ducks if we no protection had. Makes me think of the blessing you can get on your household as you move it for example :)

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:confused:I've heard a number of Mormon myths about exorcism and possession, but does anyone know what either the official word from the top is on possession is, or at least what the general concensus is? How do church leaders deal with percieved possession? What is a Mormon exorcism like? Just curious - I know this isn't necessary for my salvation everyone... that's not what I'm asking.

 

Let me write a few quotes I've found on this subject.

From Joseph Smith:

 

Now, in this world, mankind are naturally selfish, ambitious and striving to excel one above another; yet some are willing to build up others as well as themselves. So in the other world there are a variety of spirits. Some seek to excel. And this was the case with Lucifer when he fell. He sought for things which were unlawful. Hence he was sent down, and it is said he drew many away with him; and the greatness of his punishment is that he shall not have a tabernacle. This is his punishment. So the devil, thinking to thwart the decree of God, by going up and down in the earth, seeking whom he may destroy any person that he can find that will yield to him, he will bind him, and take possession of the body and reign there, glorying in it mightily, not caring that he had got merely a stolen body; and by-and-by some one having authority will come along and cast him out and restore the tabernacle to its rightful owner. The devil steals a tabernacle because he has not one of his own: but if he steals one, he is always liable to be turned out of doors.

 

History of the Church 5:388

 

The spirits in the eternal world are like the spirits in this world. When those have come into this world and received tabernacles, then died and again have risen and received glorified bodies, they will have an ascendency over the spirits who have received no bodies, or kept not their first estate, like the devil. The punishment of the devil was that he should not have a habitation like men. The devil's retaliation is, he comes into this world, binds up men's bodies, and occupies them himself. When the authorities come along, they eject him from a stolen habitation.

History of the Church 5:403

 

 

 

These evil spirits have great power to tempt, persuade and entice men to deny the correct origin of man. We do not see them, but we do feel their presence, and unconsciously we hearken to their whisperings. Having been denied bodies they, at times, steal them. It is a common error, especially in scientific circles to scoff at such a thing as the temptation by the devil and more especially so to ridicule the idea that these wicked spirits have power to possess living bodies and subdue the spirit within them. But all the scoffing and ridicule does not change the fact. The stories of possession as recorded in the New Testament are true. The scoffer cannot explain away successfully the casting out of devils by Jesus Christ, when they called him by name and he commanded them to hold their peace; the story of the devils asking to enter the bodies of swine; the story of the seven sons of Sceva, and numerous others listed in the scriptures. There are scores of such incidents that have occurred in this dispensation. Our missionaries can give the evidence in such cases. No, it is not always a diseased mind that disturbs the normal thinking, the possession by devils is a positive fact.

 

Joseph Fielding Smith

Man, His Origin and Destiny, Pg. 294

 

 

Manifestly, as in all things, there are laws and conditions under which devils have power to force entry into human bodies.  And of course in the power and majesty of their priesthood, both Jesus and the legal administrators sent from him have cast these usurping and unclean spirits out of their stolen habitations.

 

When a devil manages to enter the body of a mortal person, such person loses his free agency, and his acts then become and are those of the devil by whom he is possessed.  Thus when the devil speaks it is by the mouth of the person whose tabernacle he has stolen.

 

Elder Bruce R. McConkie

Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, vol. 1, Pg. 168

 

 

Why did the demons desire to enter the bodies of the swine? or, for that matter, how came they to take up tenancy in the body of the man? We cannot tell and do not know how it is that evil spirits-few or many-gain entrance into the bodies of mortal men. We do know that all things are governed by law, and that Satan is precluded from taking possession of the bodies of the prophets and other righteous people. Were it not so, the work of God would be thwarted-always and in all instances-for Lucifer leads the armies of hell against all men, and more especially against those who are instrumental in furthering the Lord's work.

There must be circumstances of depression and sin and physical weakness that within the restrictions of divine control, permit evil spirits to enter human bodies. We do know their curse is to be denied tabernacles, and we surmise that the desire for such tenancy is so great that they, when permitted, even enter the bodies of beasts.

 

Elder Bruce R. McConkie

The Mortal Messiah, 2:282

 

 

 

You think it was an exceptional miracle when, after crossing the sea, the Savior with his disciples came upon one who was a maniac, and cast the devils out of him, but it was not; it is something that is occuring all the time.

Elder Nicholas G. Smith

Conference Report, Oct 1921, Pg. 139

 

 

Satan's plan is well documented, then. There are three things that Satan sets out to do. First, he plans to destroy the agency of man.

Satan's second purpose is to possess the bodies of Adam and his posterity.

The third purpose of Satan, which is described carefully and accurately in the scriptures, was to make captive the souls of men.

The Teachings Of Harold B. Lee, Pgs. 37-38

 

Satan and his evil angels are bodiless. That is their heavy punishment. Their power, now and hereafter, is greatly limited by this lack. Therefore, they often seek entrance into human bodies, even bodies of lower animals. Whenever this occurs, the individual thus made to share his body is caused much agonized suffering.

 

Elder John A. Widtsoe

Evidences and Reconciliations, Pg. 109

 

 

So long as evil spirits can obtain possession of living, human beings and influence them according to their wishes, so long has evil a tangible existence upon the earth. If there were no tabernacles for them to operate through—no men and women who would allow them to use their bodies (the great object of their desire, because of their own great lack of earthly attributes)—evil and sin would have no existence upon the earth....

 

Elder George Q. Cannon

Gospel Truth

Pg. 500

 

 

This power over spirits that afflicted humanity the Savior manifested on many occasions. One of the most remarkable spirit miracles is recorded in Mark 5:1-20 (which read). Across the lake of Galilee was a man who was terribly possessed of spirits. When Jesus appeared these spirits were afraid, and pleaded with Jesus, that if cast out, they might be allowed to enter the bodies of some swine that were feeding near by. This petition was granted with the result that the frightened swine were drowned in the lake. In this case, also, the unclean spirits acknowledged the place of the Savior as the Son of God. The most striking lesson taught by this miracle is perhaps the almost uncontrollable desire of the spirits for bodies, which harmonizes with the doctrine regarding the purpose of man’s coming upon earth.

 

The Young Woman’s Journal

Vol. 17, No. 10, Oct 1906, Pgs. 468-469

 

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That might also be. One can only wonder.

 

Perhaps we are more protected than what we know of, when we choose to do right. It could be that God allowed Joseph Smith to go through that, for whatever reason. Somehow if demons can that "easily" possess a human, i can't help but think that we would be real sitting ducks if we no protection had. Makes me think of the blessing you can get on your household as you move it for example :)

if it were easy, posessions or partial posessions would be tons more common.

I'd be inclined to think that when we do what is right, or uphold the covenants we partake in grant protection against such is part of the strength promised as well as one of hte blessings of having the Holy Ghost. (but that's more a gut feeling on my part))

 

Edited by Blackmarch
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if it were easy, posessions or partial posessions would be tons more common.

I'd be inclined to think that when we do what is right, or uphold the covenants we partake in grant protection against such is part of the strength promised as well as one of hte blessings of having the Holy Ghost. (but that's more a gut feeling on my part))

 

Here is an editorial from the Deseret News:

 

 

False spirits are more subtle, and more contagious than the small pox; their number and diversity of operations cannot be counted by man; and the first moment the saints leave the path of duty, that moment they are subject to the influence of evil, false spirits, which once having taken possession of the soul, are difficult if not impossible to be removed by the person so receiving them, without assistance from those who have more wisdom.  The great object of evils spirits is to get bodies, and the only chance they have is to dispossess a soul of the spirit of the Lord, the light of eternal truth, and take possession of that body thus dispossessed; and when thus once in possession, it may truly be said there is a body possessed of the devil.

Jesus and his disciples in different ages have commanded the unclean and wicked spirits to depart out of those of whom they had taken possession, and they have departed; but there are those spirits which are not easily dispossessed, and go out only by prayer and fasting.  And again, there are those spirits that will hardly go out at any price, except it is by the will of those who harbor them.  And of what class are they?  They are invited spirits.  Invited spirits?  Yes, many spirits watch their opportunity to thrust themselves into a person when and where they are not wanted, and such are much more easily cast out than those who are invited guests.

For instance, a person, for some real or supposed injury or neglect from a friend, wishes to retaliate to be revenged, and of course, opens the way and invites the spirit of jealousy to take possession; and the moment jealousy enters the breast, there is a perfect hell of happiness; and no scheme that hell itself can devise to torment, perplex, harass, disturb, vex and mar the peace of the wife, or the wife of the husband, is left untouched, unmoved; and by that time the breast of the harborer is opened to all the evil spirits of Pandemonium, all have free access; and oh, what a world of glory dwells there.

And how shall that jealous spirit be removed?  By the laying on of hands?  The Lord deliver us from such an ordinance, in such a case.  Why?  That spirit was invited to take up its abode there, and while that spirit is made welcome by that person, what right have we to dispossess it?  It would be abridging the agency of the individual who invited the spirit, for any one to cause that spirit to depart, without the persons leave, and we choose that all should exercise their own agency and responsibility, and then they are subjects of accountability.

Other spirits, not particularly invited or desired, gain an easy access to those who are careless, heedless, and but too indifferent to the statutes, ordinances, and duties of God’s kingdom; who neglect their prayers, their assembling together, and doing as they would be done unto; and from these spirits arise contention, strife, evil thinking, evil speaking, evil surmising, detraction, revenge, law-suits, and a host of such perplexing annoyances, sufficient to disturb a nation; but the man who is obedient to his God in all things; who knows no will of his own, only to do the will of his father in heaven; is free from these spirits; the Devil has no power over him; for he resists him, and evil spirits are compelled to flee at his rebuke.

Some may ask “how shall I know when I am operated upon by a false spirit?”  There are many keys by which the door of knowledge is unlocked to the saints, in relations to spirits, as well as other things pertaining to the kingdom; but one may suffice at the present time, for we have not designed this brief notice to cover all or any considerable portion of the ground which the subject includes.

The spirit of heaven is a spirit of peace, joy, comfort, consolation and knowledge to its possessor; and all saints who have enjoyed this spirit, (and all saints have more or less,) may know when this peaceful spirit dwelling within them is disturbed, that something is wrong, that some false spirit is lurking within or about them, striving to enter; and if they will resist the first impulse of their disturbed feelings, and command Satan in the name of Jesus to depart, peace will instantly be restored to their souls.

It is not the wrong doings of others which destroys that peace within ourselves which the world can neither give nor take away.  It is our own wrongs which cause that peaceful spirit to leave us; and would to God that this truth were indelibly imprinted on the heart and recollection of every saint, it is your own wrongs or evil spirits that destroy your peace, and not the wrongs of your friend or neighbor.  Know ye, all ye saints, if the peace of heaven and a foretaste of the blessings of the celestial world are not continually with you, there is something wrong within, some foul spirit has got possession of yourself, and the quicker you dispossess it the better.

 

Deseret News, To The Saints, Feb 21, 1853

vol. 2 no. 8

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