Saintmichaeldefendthem1 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 By JOSH LOFTINAssociated PressSALT LAKE CITY (AP) - State lawmakers are debating whether to designate a semiautomatic pistol as the official gun of Utah, despite protests from people who believe it's inappropriate because of recent mass shootings.The bill to make the Browning M1911 the official gun breezed through a committee hearing this week and is scheduled to be debated by the full House as early as Wednesday.Republican Rep. Carl Wimmer said the state should have the gun as one of its state symbols to honor John Browning, a Utah native who invented it in 1911."He invented a firearm that has defended American values and the traditions of this country for 100 years," Wimmer told the House Political Subdivisions Committee....more: Utah lawmakers propose M1911 as official state gun - Valley News Live - KVLY/KXJB - Fargo/Grand ForksIs any American religion more patriotic than the Mormons? Are any made of more sterner stuff? We're talking about a people that forged a militia to defend its rights, fought and served proudly in the military during several wars......oh, and they invented the most popular, ubiquitous, and battle tested auto loading pistol in American history; yet another accolade of the LDS contribution to America's freedom and security.And Representative Carl Wimmer, on the 100th anniversary of the famed pistol's entry into military service, wants to mark that occasion. I heard Wimmer being interviewed on the Wilcow Majority XM radio show and the guy is an impressive conservative politician in many respects, including the introduction and passage of a bill that helped defeat Obamacare in courts. Of course, this isn't about him, this is about John Browning, a man from a generation of Mormons still stinging from the persecutions of the federal government, who nonetheless invented the 1911 model, the finest .45 autoloader design that has reverberations even today in how reliable battle pistols are made. Until it was replaced by the U.S. Army by the Beretta 9mm in the 1980's, it served in several wars and conflicts and even today, many servicemembers would jump at the chance to return to the reliable 1911 as the military's sidearm of choice.John Browning is a stout and exemplary representative of the LDS faith.More on John Browning and other famous Mormon inventors and pioneers:Famous Mormon Engineers and Inventors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 John Browning... I was looking at a monument dedicated to him just last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 War does not equal patriotism. And John Browning represents "they" as much as Mark Hoffman, Butch Cassidy or Ted Bundy do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) War does not equal patriotism. And John Browning represents "they" as much as Mark Hoffman, Butch Cassidy or Ted Bundy do.Correct. War does not equal patriotism. BUT... to defend one's country, one may need to fight a war to do so. A national patriotic hero is one who is willing to die for one's country.Were it not for war, the USA would still be under British Rule and the Filipinos would still be under Spanish oppression.There are 2 heros in Philippine Independence: 1.) Andres Bonifacio, the leader of the armed revolution that fought the war against Spain, and 2.) Jose Rizal, a doctor/writer who is a prime example of how a "pen may be mightier than a sword".Philippine Independence would not have succeeded without both. That's Filipino Patriotism for you.But, I will not comment on John Browning's patriotism because I don't know the man's personal conviction on national identity. All I know of him is that he invented a lot of firearms... Edited February 14, 2011 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Are we making assumptions on what Browning was thinking when he invented his firearms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 “Patriots always talk of dying for their country, and never of killing for their country.” ( Bertrand Russell) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Are we making assumptions on what Browning was thinking when he invented his firearms?To claim that he is a mormon to be proud of also assumes that the motivation behind inventing his firearm was somehow related to his religious beliefs. I suspect his motivation was much more pragmatic than dogmatic, and as such, I don't see much reason to be proud of him as a mormon for that accomplishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 To claim that he is a mormon to be proud of also assumes that the motivation behind inventing his firearm was somehow related to his religious beliefs. I suspect his motivation was much more pragmatic than dogmatic, and as such, I don't see much reason to be proud of him as a mormon for that accomplishment.I see what you mean. I guess I saw it as "Hey, he did something respectable and he happens to be a Mormon". I wasn't connecting the two things in my mind like you were, and I see where you're coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) War does not equal patriotism. And John Browning represents "they" as much as Mark Hoffman, Butch Cassidy or Ted Bundy do.My grandparents were in the world war, and i'm rather thankful for Browning's work.War may not = patriotism, but war exposes what people are made of, and it has been during times of pressure when many souls shown how patriotic serving they are to defend their country and fellowmen. Edited February 14, 2011 by Blackmarch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintmichaeldefendthem1 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Some of the responses here have been disappointing indeed and it makes me wonder if the LDS faith would have persevered until today if defended by the current crop. Instead of celebrating a man who defined the stern stuff that early Mormons were made of, some of you small mindedly picked at the definition of patriotism and threw John Browning, a fellow Mormon, under your ideological bus. You despise examples of greatness, are unaware and ungrateful for the accomplishments and sacrifices that vouchsafe your freedom and prosperity today, and scoff at America's inner mettle, defined partly by hardy and patriotic Mormons, to rise up against the forces of agression and fascism that threatened the Western world during the 20th century. Blackmarch, Backroads, and Anatess give me hope that the freedoms so hard earned by our forefathers will be appreciated by future generations. This will be my last post on this thread. I'm very disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Not sure if I can be in that list - I'm not American. But yes, I'm a patriot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hordak Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 You completely missed the point. Problem is you attributing the deeds of a few to an entire group. I have an anti catholic friend who does the same thing in light of some of the recent scandals. Also know some atheist/agnostics who do the same thing dropping name like Steven Hawking, or Richard Dawkins. But you see the acts of a few, don't represent the group as a whole, whether they be good, or bad. You might call that "small minded" I call that logic. Mormon is to Browning as Mormon is to Mark Hoffman. Both got famous doing unusual things. But these thing don't represent the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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