Magnet Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 So, I was reading the Book of Mormonism a couple of days ago (I've recently become interested in Mormonism as a possible religious path to follow) and I now have a few questions about it....How come the Mormon Church still teaches that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God after he made a false prophecy about a temple being built in Missouri in his generation (I think it's Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5)?And also...If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of the later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?And therefore, because of the above questions, I've been thinking....Since the Bible’s test to determine whether someone is a true prophet of God is 100% accurate in all his prophecies (Deuteronomy 18:20-22), has the LDS Church ever reconsidered its teaching that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were true prophets? And because the current LDS prophets sometimes contradict the former ones, how do you decide which one is correct? I mean.. there are several different contradictory accounts of Joseph Smith’s first vision, how did the LDS Church choose the correct one? Sorry if that's a lot, or if it's not been written well or whatever... I'm genuinely curious about this, and I want to truly understand and get down to the truth and everything before I commit myself to anything, you know?Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Here we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Here we go.I'm sorry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Forgive me if I appear skeptical here. But my experience with 12 years on this site..every time we get asked these exact same questions it is never done sincerely but as a guise to start tearing apart our beliefs. I hope you prove me wrong in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChooseTheSun Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Just a thought.....instead of jumping right into big-issue debate, maybe just start with meeting with the missionaries and hearing their simple messages with an open mind and heart. Learning the basics about the Church first might help you understand the Prophets' messages better. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Here we go.leaves me wondering if the intro thread was more of a freudian slip than a typo....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Forgive me if I appear skeptical here.You're forgiven....every time we get asked these exact same questions it is never done sincerely but as a guise to start tearing apart our beliefs.Well, that's a shame that people have come on here to 'tear apart your beliefs', because not only is it obviously upsetting and/or insulting to you and your beliefs, but it has made you start thinking that people who genuinely do have serious questions about your faith are just the same as the others.Or maybe you're only saying that because you don't know the answer to my questions. I don't know. I'm just asking.I can assure you, however, that I am not on here purely to 'tear apart your beliefs'. I've come to this site to learn about Mormonism and educate myself in your religious beliefs and the religion.I hope you prove me wrong in this case.So do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Just a thought.....instead of jumping right into big-issue debate, maybe just start with meeting with the missionaries and hearing their simple messages with an open mind and heart. Learning the basics about the Church first might help you understand the Prophets' messages better. Good luck.No debate here. Purely an attempt to try and learn about the religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Actually, your questions have nothing to do with our beliefs, faith, or religion as we practice it. They have to do with our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnet Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Actually, your questions have nothing to do with our beliefs, faith, or religion as we practice it. They have to do with our history.I don't know about you, but I can't just accept something without questioning things that don't make sense first. The history is a part of the religion.Are you really saying that because it was in the past, it doesn't matter and has 'nothing to do with your beliefs, faith or religion'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 1. Prophets are not infallible. They make mistakes. 2. Whereas some see the temple being built in Missouri as a prophesy, others see it merely as a commandment of the Lord for them to build one. 3. Deuteronomy's test on prophets does not reveal who is/isn't a real prophet, but whether one should be concerned regarding a specific prophesy, etc. As it is, Jonah's prophecy failed, yet he is still considered a prophet. Jesus prophesied the 2nd coming would occur within that generation (Matthew 24), yet it didn't. We still revere him as Savior and God. Not all things a prophet says is doctrine. Brigham Young sought to advance LDS theology by speculating on many things. Sadly, most focus on the handful of things he got wrong, rather than the hundreds of things he got right. There is a pattern for establishing actual doctrine in the Church. It must be presented to all the quorums of the Church, and then to the general membership to be sustained. If it has not, then it is a teaching that is not within the realm of official doctrine of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 A religion's history has limited application towards what it is today. Southern Baptists were founded upon the concept of slavery. Yet today they have nothing to do with slavery. Should blacks and those against slavery reject that religion today for something occurring 150 years ago? LDS believe in continuing revelation. This means we acknowledge not having all the truth. This means we understand that our understanding of things in the past on non-core doctrines can change at any time. And that is okay with us. God gives truth line upon line, precept upon precept. And not all truth is given via prophets. Many things we learn through scientific experimentation and thought. And these can modify many of our beliefs. For example, science has proven that Herod the Great died in 4BC. If we are to believe the Bible, that Herod was the king at Jesus' birth, then this tells us that Jesus could not have been born in 1BC, but rather in 6-5BC instead. If Mormons do not consider their prophets infallible, but only our core doctrines as being infallible, then why the concern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneC Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) 1. Prophets are not infallible. They make mistakes.2. Whereas some see the temple being built in Missouri as a prophesy, others see it merely as a commandment of the Lord for them to build one.3. Deuteronomy's test on prophets does not reveal who is/isn't a real prophet, but whether one should be concerned regarding a specific prophesy, etc. As it is, Jonah's prophecy failed, yet he is still considered a prophet. Jesus prophesied the 2nd coming would occur within that generation (Matthew 24), yet it didn't. We still revere him as Savior and God.Not all things a prophet says is doctrine. Brigham Young sought to advance LDS theology by speculating on many things. Sadly, most focus on the handful of things he got wrong, rather than the hundreds of things he got right.There is a pattern for establishing actual doctrine in the Church. It must be presented to all the quorums of the Church, and then to the general membership to be sustained. If it has not, then it is a teaching that is not within the realm of official doctrine of the Church.Well spoken. Edited February 25, 2011 by ThankGodForRepentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 When you say "Book of Mormonism" do you mean the Book of Mormon? If so, how would you get issues such as the temple being built in Missouri, or Brigham Young's misstatements from it? What exactly are you studying, because if you are actually studying the Book of Mormon, your questions would have had nothing to do with LDS history, and more regarding the text within the Book of Mormon. Perhaps, what you meant to say is that you have been studying Mormonism out of an anti-Mormon book or website? If so, these aren't your questions. If you are really studying Mormonism, why not study what we believe, rather than tangential issues brought up by those seeking to destroy? If you wanted to know about Jesus, would you first go to the Pharisees? Or would you first go to Jesus and his disciples, and find out what they really were about first? The former suggests a disbelief and desire to satisfy your disbelief. The latter would be for the person truly interested in seeking truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Guys...the OP is a troll. Google "Mormons and magnets" and then see if you think the OP's handle is coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) So, I was reading the Book of Mormonism a couple of days ago (I've recently become interested in Mormonism as a possible religious path to follow) and I now have a few questions about it....How come the Mormon Church still teaches that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God after he made a false prophecy about a temple being built in Missouri in his generation (I think it's Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5)?I suggest reading thru fairlds.org rather than here Edited February 26, 2011 by Blackmarch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 So, I was reading the Book of Mormonism Admit it, you read A book ON Mormonism, not the book of Mormonism, didn't you? Because there is no definitive book on Mormonism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipplecutBuddha Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 The OP's silence is deafening. Allow me some comments to him/her in absencia, for whenever they get back to this thread. Let's discuss the two issues you brought up in a different way. both Joseph and Brigham said and wrote quite a few things. Since they were mortal men, they were just as prone to being wrong as you and I. There is nowhere in the Bible that states once a prophet is called, he is under the direct influence of the spirit constantly to the end of his life. For heaven's sake, Noah got drunk after the flood....considering what he'd been through I can't really blame him either. Jonah's prophecy failed, and Christ's prediction of the second coming was wrong, both of which have been mentioned already, so 100% prophetic accuracy is a shaky claim. Let's leave off of that vien for a moment and try the new direction I mentioned earlier. At several times throughout Joseph's and Brigham's ministries several people left the church because of what they said or wrote. The exact same thing happened to Christ more than once during his brief three year ministry, so having followers leave the church is not a sound measuring device either. I marvel how many times the advice of an accepted prophet of God is rejected, especially when it comes from the Bible. James 1:5 -- If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God that giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. I hope you are searching for wisdom, and in that search I advise you, as James advises us all, to take the search to God himself. Websites can't give you the answers you seek...not even this one. The source of all truth is God himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennarator Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 I know this is too simple for many, I have been on a mission and some just want to "Bible bash," however here it is in all it's glory, again: Read, pray. The Holy Ghost will tell you if it's true. You can know for yourself, no need to rely of "proving it" to be so. Faith can do this. Here's the catch, this reading and praying must be done with a sincere open heart and mind with a real want to know. I know this has most likely been said a million times, here, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCC Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Guys...the OP is a troll. Google "Mormons and magnets" and then see if you think the OP's handle is coincidence.this +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 And we're done here. Thanks for stopping by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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