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Mountain Meadows Massacre?

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Does anyone have specific knowledge of this event. I remember researching it a while ago, but the only source I trusted was on LDS.org and I felt like I was getting mixed signals. Does anyone know how the Church stands on this (obviously besides condemning the event) and what the outcome was?

Thanks!

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Here's a good Ensign article from Richard Turley on the matter. He's finishing up a book on the MMM.

Hey LM,

Are you talking about a different book than Massacre at Mountain Meadows?

Elph

Edited by Elphaba

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Does anyone have specific knowledge of this event. I remember researching it a while ago, but the only source I trusted was on LDS.org and I felt like I was getting mixed signals. Does anyone know how the Church stands on this (obviously besides condemning the event) and what the outcome was?

Thanks!

In additional to Massacre at Mountain Meadows, I would recommend Juanita Brooks' Mountain Meadows Massacre.

I also enjoyed Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows, by Will Bagley, but most LDS find it very problematic.

IMO, reading all three books was beneficial.

Elphaba

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Hey LM,

Are you talking about a different book than Massacre at Mountain Meadows?

Elph

Haven't heard much about it lately, but my understanding was that Turley found so much material writing the first volume that he was thinking about doing a second volume that would focus on the aftermath of the massacre.

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Richard Turleys book is the most comprehensive and studied look on Mountain Meadows Massacre. I disagree with a lot of what Bagley says about it. I think he went into his book and research with an end in mind, instead of going where the evidence took him. Brooks isn't bad, but is very outdated. Turleys book "Massacre at Mountain Meadows" is the best to date.

He gave a talk at a FAIR conference a few years ago that you can watch on Youtube

pt 1-

pt 2-

pt 3-

pt 4-

Here are also some good publications on the work:

Search results for "mountain meadows massacre"

Mountain Meadows Massacre - FAIRMormon

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Haven't heard much about it lately, but my understanding was that Turley found so much material writing the first volume that he was thinking about doing a second volume that would focus on the aftermath of the massacre.

Thanks, JAG. I had no idea Turley was doing this. What a great subject.

Elph

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I had MMM by Juanita Brooks kicking around for years and finally made time to read it a couple of months ago.

I bought Blood of The Prophets by Bagley a few months ago along with a bunch of others and want to read it soon, along with Murder at Mountain Meadows.

I'm currently reading 'Conflict in The Quarom' by James Bergera -- about the conflicts between Joseph Smith -- Orson Pratt and Brigham Young. (I had to throw in a plug, so far it's juicy)

MMM by Juanita Brooks was a great book I thought -- it left a bad taste in my mouth about the church playing hide and seek with the facts and covering some of the brethern behinds -- such as Haight and Hamblin and others and leaving John D. Lee out to dry as the scapegoat.

It seems Brigham basically disowned his adopted son.

What I thought was a powerful read was the last testimony of John Lee -- before the execution. He said many things, but among them was his disbelief of Brigham Young being a prophet of God -- but his belief of Joseph Smith being a prophet of God remained firm to the end.

What is also interesting is that the church restored all of John Lee's priesthood blesings years later after his excommunication and execution -- that struck me rather strange.

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I dunno... her green skin kinda weirds me out!

HiJolly

Of course everything we are saying about her is all said out of adoration and love. :)

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I would recommend reading a book by someone that isn't LDS as well to get both sides of the story. Or, just look it up on Wikipedia to find out the basic facts. Read as many sources as you can, then decide from there.

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I would recommend reading a book by someone that isn't LDS as well to get both sides of the story. Or, just look it up on Wikipedia to find out the basic facts. Read as many sources as you can, then decide from there.

I would throw out there that there can be an unbiased and fair study of this episode by those who are LDS as long as they adhere to proper and accepted scholarly protocols, rules and procedures. Plus, it's more likely an LDS scholar would be able to get access to church records on this matter. Look at the Joseph Smith papers. LDS scholars using accepted scholarly procedures producing a noteworthy and heralded piece of work.

Having said that, the more accepted and well researched sources the better.

Edited by slamjet
Added a line for clarification.

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I read the ensign article suggested earlier, I thought it was really good.

My first time to do sealings in the temple, I went in to help a family do their names, sealing children to their parents. The sealer took one look at me and said, "you're doing something for others that you've never done for yourself" He knew when I entered the room.

"yes" I said. We talked. After the sealings were done, we talked some more. We discovered that we both had family that were killed in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. He was a descendant of one of the children that had survived, I was a long lost cousin. We were both from the Dunlap family. It was the first time I felt like I was with a family member in the temple. We talked about getting together to do genealogy. I'm hoping he can meet my mom. It's hard for her to accept my decision to join the church.

When I got sealed to my kids, I asked him to do our sealing. My two kids were adopted by my husband. I found out that the sealer had adopted his kids too! It was a fantastic day.

We both decided that we can't let Satan keep winning because of what happened to those poor families on both sides of such a horrific and tragic event. As long as the anger and hate and hurt continue, Satan keeps winning. We have to keep moving on the path of righteousness, no matter what others have done. We have to forgive and not look back like Lot's wife, turning into a pillar of bitter salt.

I love the Ensign for printing that article and letting me have a way to read it.

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Odd - I'm happy to see nobody advocating that stupid show September Dawn from 2007. Terrible events like MMM deserve better treatment than the laughingly one-dimentional Flash Gordon vs. the Evil Emperor Ming deal this crapfest dumped on moviegoers.

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I would suggest going through the bibliographies and hunting down original sources yourself. The books can be really good at organizing things, but you always have the problem of at least a slight author bias.

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Odd - I'm happy to see nobody advocating that stupid show September Dawn from 2007. Terrible events like MMM deserve better treatment than the laughingly one-dimentional Flash Gordon vs. the Evil Emperor Ming deal this crapfest dumped on moviegoers.

I don't think even the religiously neutral critics liked that one...

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Odd - I'm happy to see nobody advocating that stupid show September Dawn from 2007. Terrible events like MMM deserve better treatment than the laughingly one-dimentional Flash Gordon vs. the Evil Emperor Ming deal this crapfest dumped on moviegoers.

I saw that movie and the bias was apparent from the start so I took it with a grain of salt. The only question it brought up in my mind is the statement at the end that the LDS have still not admitted its role and responsibility for the massecre. I don't know how true this might be. As a Catholic, I'm used to all sorts of atrocities being seen as having the imprimatur of the Vatican, even events that the Church was steadfastly opposed to. In the end, it doesn't matter I suppose. Even if Brigham Young orchestrated the event himself, it wouldn't change my opinion of modern day practicing LDS members. I love the LDS church today, I have no love for its founders.

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I saw that movie and the bias was apparent from the start so I took it with a grain of salt. The only question it brought up in my mind is the statement at the end that the LDS have still not admitted its role and responsibility for the massecre. I don't know how true this might be. As a Catholic, I'm used to all sorts of atrocities being seen as having the imprimatur of the Vatican, even events that the Church was steadfastly opposed to. In the end, it doesn't matter I suppose. Even if Brigham Young orchestrated the event himself, it wouldn't change my opinion of modern day practicing LDS members. I love the LDS church today, I have no love for its founders.

This is why you're a sweetheart.

I'm personally of the opinion that there is no real reason for the Church to admit responsibility. As far as I can tell, the Church wasn't entirely responsible. The current church isn't responsible.

Would admitting anything really make vindication for anyone?

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I saw that movie and the bias was apparent from the start so I took it with a grain of salt. The only question it brought up in my mind is the statement at the end that the LDS have still not admitted its role and responsibility for the massecre.

The question actually is WHAT would make the people craving for this happy? First it was NOT LDS Churches failure. You cant put on the Church its members mistakes! Second this is done: Mountain Meadows Massacre - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

People who keep this thing in spotlights only wnat LDS to feel bad about their religion, they have no wish for any admittings or what ever..... they just hang to it as the Church dont take the responsibility of something it was not responsible of!

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