Eternal family relationships

[Seminarysnoozer]

If one member of a family that is sealed together becomes Exalted in the Celestial Kingdom and another member, such as a brother is given Terrestrial glory, will the Celestial brother still look at the Terrestrial brother as a sealed brother? Will the Terrestrial brother look at the Celestial brother as a sealed brother?

Of course, we are all brothers and sisters but will there be added significance for the Celestial brother who has family members that are in other kingdoms or is that lost if they don't also make it to the Celestial glory? Does the Celestial brother hold onto that relationship where it is lost for the Terrestrial brother? ... a one sided relationship?

[Blackmarch]

If one member of a family that is sealed together becomes Exalted in the Celestial Kingdom and another member, such as a brother is given Terrestrial glory, will the Celestial brother still look at the Terrestrial brother as a sealed brother? Will the Terrestrial brother look at the Celestial brother as a sealed brother?

absolutely

Of course, we are all brothers and sisters but will there be added significance for the Celestial brother who has family members that are in other kingdoms or is that lost if they don't also make it to the Celestial glory? Does the Celestial brother hold onto that relationship where it is lost for the Terrestrial brother? ... a one sided relationship?

I can't see why they would not hold on to it. the one in the celestial kingdom would have to do the visiting tho.

[ryanh]

I can't see why they would not hold on to it.

Upon what do you base that statement?

If those in lower kingdoms will never be with God the Father, (and as King Benjamin and Alma explained, wouldn't want to anyway - they would choose to go away for the fact of shame), why would they be with, or want to be with other exalted beings? And, if God the Father looses eternal familial relationships because of poor choices of some, why would we not loose temporal familial relationships because of the poor choices of a brother/sister?

[Traveler]

Upon what do you base that statement?

If those in lower kingdoms will never be with God the Father, (and as King Benjamin and Alma explained, wouldn't want to anyway - they would choose to go away for the fact of shame), why would they be with, or want to be with other exalted beings? And, if God the Father looses eternal familial relationships because of poor choices of some, why would we not loose temporal familial relationships because of the poor choices of a brother/sister?

I agree. Seelings are for Celestial purposes and would have no meaning outside of Celestial law and covenants. (See D&C 132:7-14)

The Traveler

[Blackmarch]

Upon what do you base that statement?

If those in lower kingdoms will never be with God the Father, (and as King Benjamin and Alma explained, wouldn't want to anyway - they would choose to go away for the fact of shame), why would they be with, or want to be with other exalted beings? And, if God the Father looses eternal familial relationships because of poor choices of some, why would we not loose temporal familial relationships because of the poor choices of a brother/sister?

Im basing it off a couple things-

1) Primarily i'm basing it off Christ.

2) Joseph smitth said something along the lines that the social interaction in heaven is much like as it is here, only perfected.

3) we learn in Doctrine and covenants 76 that Christ can or will visit the middle kingdom, and that angels will visit the lowest kingdom.

4) the importance of families.

5) Love.

I don't recall anything that states that entering into any of the heavenly kingdoms completely severs a familial relationship, and certainly can't recall anything that indicates that God sees his relationship with his children in that manner.... And I can't find or think of anything that indicates the lack of ability to visit a person in a family an automatic disqualifier for a family tie.

Now as for the individual who goes to the lower kingdom wanting to sever ties, that may be an entirely different story. Whether they will be able to or not I don't know. ( I know that there can be temple sealing cancellations so as far as I know that is about the only way, or something similar to that.. or getting cast into outer darkness)

As to whether that person would want to abide an exalted being is going to be up to them, in which case the exalted being sure is not going to impose at the time unless its something of such importance that God decrees it must be done by an individual who has been exalted....

I'd also wager that by the time someone enters into whatever kingdom that they'll have repented of what they can to whatever level.

(IE will they want to go and run in shame at that time? I don't think so but these last two paragraphs are more speculation and pure opinion)

[ryanh]

Im basing it off a couple things-

1) Primarily i'm basing it off Christ.

2) Joseph smitth said something along the lines that the social interaction in heaven is much like as it is here, only perfected.

3) we learn in Doctrine and covenants 76 that Christ can or will visit the middle kingdom, and that angels will visit the lowest kingdom.

4) the importance of families.

5) Love.

Still interested in a doctrinal basis, if such exists. I don't see any of those five points as addressing any part of cross-kingdom continuation of temporal familial relationships; except in interpolation and supposition.

[Blackmarch]

I agree. Seelings are for Celestial purposes and would have no meaning outside of Celestial law and covenants. (See D&C 132:7-14)

The Traveler

IF not why are we told that our being obedient to our covenants will bless those who are not?

Sealings are to bind something in heaven. Granted many promises are for celestial only stuff (which those who do not abide will not be able to recieve) but i don't recall the family ties being being celestial only, and heaven does encompass more than just the celestial kingdom.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Blackmarch

[Blackmarch]

Still interested in a doctrinal basis, if such exists. I don't see any of those five points as addressing any part of cross-kingdom continuation of temporal familial relationships; except in interpolation and supposition.

I thought the OP was asking about those in family that were sealed together but one or more individuals were not as faithful to the gospel?

Perhaps i should ask what do you mean as a "sealed" brother?

I can also conversely ask for where is the doctrine that they cease to be a family found?

How about the verse that says man can't undo what god puts together. And if the sealing power is gods power...

Edited March 1, 2011 by Blackmarch

[ryanh]

A priesthood ordinance, such as a marriage in the temple that we refer to as a "sealing", is not actually a sealing. It is a promise. The sealing comes at a later time by the Holy Spirit of Promise once we have proven ourselves worthy. That would not come upon someone that was not entering (going to enter) the Celestial Kingdom as I understand it. Thus, in the context of the OP, the term "sealing" between brothers must be the situation of Born in the Covenant of 'sealed' parents.

[Blackmarch]

A priesthood ordinance, such as a marriage in the temple that we refer to as a "sealing", is not actually a sealing. It is a promise.

I guess thats one way of putting it. I generally don't assume that the power part is enacted later. Good point.

Well its more than just a promise, its one that's made made between multiple parties. So if one does not hold up to their promises, how likely would the others be willing to cut him from the line, or would they rather try to get whatever blessings and connection possible/alowable with the fallen member?

The sealing comes at a later time by the Holy Spirit of Promise once we have proven ourselves worthy. That would not come upon someone that was not entering (going to enter) the Celestial Kingdom as I understand it. Thus, in the context of the OP, the term "sealing" between brothers must be the situation of Born in the Covenant of 'sealed' parents.

Well thats what i thought the situation was. the OP uses the adjective "sealed" in regards to ones feelings, and how they view their relationship. Perhaps I should then ask does your being sealed to another affect how you feel for them? If your brother or sister were not as faithful, would you view them only as temporary immediate kin (rather than whole family of God bro/sis thing)?

Do you have anything more concrete against what I posted as to why an individual who has perfect love would not feel, or would choose to deny or break, the close knit familial binds towards a brother who did not make it (or why God would force them to)?

I also point you to the parable of the prodigal son.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Blackmarch

[Seminarysnoozer]

Thanks for all your posts, this is more controversial than I thought. I have a sister who was sealed under the covenant to my parents and she has chosen a pathway in life that has broken the promises of that sealing. She rarely comes to family events and yet I still love her as a sister. She stays with us every once in a while and I enjoy our relationship. I am, of course, afraid our relationship will end with this life. I hope not. We make her participate in our FHE when she is here, (haha sneaky), as well as family prayer and I sense that she still has some belief in the truth just chooses not to practice it.

If we are not in the same Kingdom, that is the Celestial Kingdom and I am fortunate to make it there (or visa-versa), will the relationship I have with my sister be one sided? Would I desire to spend more time with her but she won't see it that way? Would I call her family but she would not call me family? .. maybe just a friend. As we are all family anyways I guess I might be making more out of this than needs be.

[ryanh]

Again, they could not be "sealed" in the true sense of the word, only in the colloquial sense used by LDS. They had a "promise", but could not have been sealed in the scenario presented.

Do you have anything more concrete against what I posted as to why an individual who has perfect love would not feel, or would choose to deny or break, the close knit familial binds towards a brother who did not make it?

Of course I don't. Nor do I feel a need to attempt to doctrinally refute 'doctrine' that simply does not exist.

If an understanding of these matters were important to our work here on earth, I feel confident there would be revealed doctrine regarding the matter. I personally feel that the lack of revealed doctrine in regards to these matters means they are tangential distractions to what the gospel is really about. They are interesting and fun, but ultimately useless to what we need to focus on.

Perhaps you can answer your own question by answering the question I posed earlier, but that you did not address. How/why is it that a perfect loving Father in Heaven can sever relationships with countless numbers of His children - including the third part that followed lucifer? Additionally, why should we expect to not be subject to the same laws that our Father follows? (ministrations (section 76) seem to be an extraordinary category, and do not speak to cross-kingdom familial relations IMO.)

[Seminarysnoozer]

Again, they could not be "sealed" in the true sense of the word, only in the colloquial sense used by LDS. They had a "promise", but could not have been sealed in the scenario presented.

Of course I don't. Nor do I feel a need to attempt to doctrinally refute 'doctrine' that simply does not exist.

If an understanding of these matters were important to our work here on earth, I feel confident there would be revealed doctrine regarding the matter. I personally feel that the lack of revealed doctrine in regards to these matters means they are tangential distractions to what the gospel is really about. They are interesting and fun, but ultimately useless to what we need to focus on.

Perhaps you can answer your own question by answering the question I posed earlier, but that you did not address. How/why is it that a perfect loving Father in Heaven can sever relationships with countless numbers of His children - including the third part that followed lucifer? Additionally, why should we expect to not be subject to the same laws that our Father follows? (ministrations (section 76) seem to be an extraordinary category, and do not speak to cross-kingdom familial relations IMO.)

Was it God who severed that relationship or was it the idea that if one wants a continued family type structure for the eternities than the way to do it is by following God's plan, and if one wants to be individual, rebellious and try to do it on their own then follow Lucifer. It seems that the third that went with Lucifer did not want families anyways. That still seems like it would be tough and a very sad day. ... good comments, thanks.

[classylady]

What about the promise to parents whose children that are sealed to them, will someday hear the whisperings of the Spirit and will repent and return. I've come to understand that it may be in the next life, not necessarily this life that they will return.

[Seminarysnoozer]

What about the promise to parents whose children that are sealed to them, will someday hear the whisperings of the Spirit and will repent and return. I've come to understand that it may be in the next life, not necessarily this life that they will return.

Yes, I am hoping for that. In the case that it doesn't happen though it kind of sets up a one way relationship.