1st Amendment protects military funeral protesters


Soulsearcher
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It's pretty bad, protesting at these funerals. The first amendment has to apply to everyone, however, and not just to people saying things we like.

On the other hand, when a whole town decided not to fix their flat tires, it was their right as well. ;)

Everyone gets their rights. YAY!

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!st amendment protects the stuff others say, not just the stuff you like.

I'm sure i've told this story before but when i was in the service the war protesters were crowded around the gates at the base all the time. My supervise used to come in complaining about them, just gripping all morning long. I loved them. Not because i agreed with what they said, but because they were taking full advantage of the rights i signed up to protect.

So while i don't agree with what they say or how they say it, i'm glad they are protected, because it means we all are.

Plus this church thrives on publicity, the negative publicity gave a church of 71 members a worldwide voice.

I think the best action would be to ignore them.

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those protections go to a point. If your speech can cause harm, example crying fire in a crowded building that is not on fire, it is not protected because it could cause injury in the resulting panic. I cannot remember the case that decided that though. Also if the graveyard was private property vs public they would have no right to go on it and protest, they would have to stay on the public land to make their demonstration. those guys are the biggest butt heads.

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This is why the First Amendment is so important. If it only protected the speech of the majority, or those in power, eventually we would be the ones without a voice. We can see lots of examples of that in Libya and other locations right now, where the only way the people can find their voice is in open rebellion.

Now, how about we organize a peaceful, but loud, protest outside their church every Sunday during their services, and also at their funerals?

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Wasn't there a funeral where the whole town crowded and lined the streets near the funeral so the protesters couldn't disrupt the funeral???? We have to all step in in these kind of things. When my son was deployed to Iraq there was a send off and threats of protest. The whole area was lined up with Veterans holding flags as a barrier to the event it was an awesome site and so patriotic. Communities need to come together in times like this . You have freedom of speech just maybe down the street a bit

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Wasn't there a funeral where the whole town crowded and lined the streets near the funeral so the protesters couldn't disrupt the funeral???? We have to all step in in these kind of things. When my son was deployed to Iraq there was a send off and threats of protest. The whole area was lined up with Veterans holding flags as a barrier to the event it was an awesome site and so patriotic. Communities need to come together in times like this . You have freedom of speech just maybe down the street a bit

groups like this are awesome. Home
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Tacky on the part of protestors. Would they like if people publically protested their children's indisgressions their funerals.

By your use of the word "indisgression" I assume you think they are shouting their vile hatred because the dead child is gay, though why anyone would put it that way is beyond me. Tacky, indeed.

However, that is not the case. The dead child's sexual orientation has nothing to do with anything. These people believe dead US soldiers are some god's punishment on this country for its support of its own citizens who happen to be gay. They see these funerals as nothing more than a public venue to get that "message" out.

Elphaba

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By your use of the word "indisgression" I assume you think they are shouting their vile hatred because the dead child is gay, though why anyone would put it that way is beyond me. Tacky, indeed.

However, that is not the case. The dead child's sexual orientation has nothing to do with anything. These people believe dead US soldiers are some god's punishment on this country for its support of its own citizens who happen to be gay. They see these funerals as nothing more than a public venue to get that "message" out.

Elphaba

Yep, it's like threatening to kill a puppy if people don't boycott Wal-Mart, the method of getting attention isn't so much directly connected to the message but more chosen because you know it'll have a strong emotional impact. I imagine if they did make a habit of only boycotting funerals of homosexuals they'd probably find less people aware of them.

Edited by Dravin
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By your use of the word "indisgression" I assume you think they are shouting their vile hatred because the dead child is gay, though why anyone would put it that way is beyond me. Tacky, indeed.

However, that is not the case. The dead child's sexual orientation has nothing to do with anything. These people believe dead US soldiers are some god's punishment on this country for its support of its own citizens who happen to be gay. They see these funerals as nothing more than a public venue to get that "message" out.

Elphaba

I stand corrected. I would bet many readers of headlines only make the same assumption I did. It makes the protest venue and the protest itself even more ridiculous. And God doesn't even hate gays. Those poor deluded Baptists. But, God loves the members of the Westboro Baptist church, too. So I guess there isn't much more anyone can say.

Edited by carlimac
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The one thing about freedom is knowing that it allows people the choice to do things you don't like.

Things you don't like to see

Things you don't like to hear

Things you don't like to read about.

As well as we know this ourselves, how much better acquainted with this fact is Heavenly Father himself? And yet he does not intrude upon our freedom in any way.

The other thing about freedom is it allows everyone the freedom to be wrong. The ruling, IMHO was spot on. Tough thing to say frequently about Federal Gov't. activities lately.

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From what I heard, police keep them 1000 ft. away from the funeral. They have followed the rules, and I'm glad the Supremes decided the way they did. If they start preventing one religious group, no matter how idiotic and offensive, from expressing themselves, who's to say we won't be next?

Three cheers for the First Amendment! :D

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I agree with the decision, as the First Amendment does protect free speech even if the speech is something most people don't agree with. After all, if groups like the WBC lose their free speech rights, then there's a risk that our rights could be taken away as well. I agree with the quote, "I might not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it."

They showed up outside a local high school that has a GLBT club, and the counter protest turned out to be much larger than their protest. Personally, I think it's better to ignore them as they thrive on the publicity.

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I agree with the decision, as the First Amendment does protect free speech even if the speech is something most people don't agree with. After all, if groups like the WBC lose their free speech rights, then there's a risk that our rights could be taken away as well. I agree with the quote, "I might not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it."

They showed up outside a local high school that has a GLBT club, and the counter protest turned out to be much larger than their protest. Personally, I think it's better to ignore them as they thrive on the publicity.

The thing that I don't understand is why this is not looked at as hate speech. I thought there was protection from hate speech, but according to this article it is only looked at as freedom of speech. Where do you draw the line between the two? It is one thing to conduct a protest, but when you interject signs & vocalizations of derogatory, vulgar personal accusations against a family you do not know, this now becomes hate speech & not just freedom of speech. If I remember correctly, there have been cases of prosecution of hate speech against perpetrators of hate speech, even when the perpetrators tried to use the First Amendment arguement. Sure, I am in all agreement that each citizen is entitled to the freedom of speaking their personal opinions & disagreements, but when one goes beyond that & turns it into disgusting, vulgar hate speech, this has now gone too, too far. So where is the protection against when the First Amendment has crossed the line & gone too far? When does one say 'enough is enough'? When does someone stand up for protection against this kind of hate speech? If this group is so much against these issues, why don't they take their protests to the government buildings nationwide, why do they have to take it to the grieving families & add to the stress & devastation that they are already going through?

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So where is the protection against when the First Amendment has crossed the line & gone too far? When does one say 'enough is enough'? When does someone stand up for protection against this kind of hate speech?

Hate speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - It should take you directly to the section covering the US.

If this group is so much against these issues, why don't they take their protests to the government buildings nationwide, why do they have to take it to the grieving families & add to the stress & devastation that they are already going through?

You'll have to ask them why they've adopted the strategy but as hypothesized in the thread it is because protesting soldier's funerals garners more infamy then protesting US Government buildings (or homosexual's funerals).

Edited by Dravin
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Those poor deluded Baptists.

In point of fact carlimac- Westboro Baptist claims to be "Baptist"- but is not affiliated with any Baptist parent organization.

If memory serves, they were tossed out on their racist bigoted kiesters when it was discovered that their founder was an agent provocatuer who made his money through trumped-up lawsuits and child slavery.

But, God loves the members of the Westboro Baptist church, too. So I guess there isn't much more anyone can say.

God loves them? Without question.

Wishes they'd pull their heads out of their kiesters? Beyond doubt.

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In the United States, hate speech only applies if it includes threatening language. We are clearly different than many other nations, where one can get jail time and fines for hate speech. But I would prefer it this way, where our speech is protected in almost all instances. Otherwise, we'll end up on the slippery slope towards losing free speech.

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In the United States, hate speech only applies if it includes threatening language. We are clearly different than many other nations, where one can get jail time and fines for hate speech. But I would prefer it this way, where our speech is protected in almost all instances. Otherwise, we'll end up on the slippery slope towards losing free speech.

Crimethink, anyone?
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What people need to understand about the Westboro Baptist Church - the founder complained about Homosexual activity going on in public parks where his children played. Nothing was done, despite it being against the laws of the land.

Because of this instance, they now have taken upon themselves to pronounce judgment on America. Their delusion has some relevance of truth.

Yes, they have the right to protest. Is it ethical? Is it respectful? No it is not and I disagree with them 100%. What they are doing is morally and ethically wrong. Even still, what they are attempting to do is to get the message out that America is doomed because we have allowed such things to come into our culture. We are seeing the sins of the fathers being visited upon the children. We have fallen asleep at the wheel. While Latter-day Saints, we continue to present the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, things will get a whole lot worse. We will start seeing our rights slowly strip away - in fact, it is already underway. It is now called hate speech to say that Homosexuality is sinful and wrong in the sight of God. It is now called a hate crime if a homosexual is assaulted - despite the reason surrounding the assault (which is exactly why we have the Matthew Shephard law that is now on the books and started the whole Hate Speech, Hate Crime movement, when his brutal death was not due to him being homosexual, but a drug addict/dealer who was beaten and robbed - his death was a political machination to bring about the new laws of the land to protect the minority that now act out in violence and protests that are not protected but allowed).

Yes, they have the privilege to preach their hate and condemnation, but they do not have the ethical and moral right to do so.

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What people need to understand about the Westboro Baptist Church - the founder complained about Homosexual activity going on in public parks where his children played. Nothing was done, despite it being against the laws of the land.

Because of this instance, they now have taken upon themselves to pronounce judgment on America. Their delusion has some relevance of truth.

Yes, they have the right to protest. Is it ethical? Is it respectful? No it is not and I disagree with them 100%. What they are doing is morally and ethically wrong. Even still, what they are attempting to do is to get the message out that America is doomed because we have allowed such things to come into our culture. We are seeing the sins of the fathers being visited upon the children. We have fallen asleep at the wheel. While Latter-day Saints, we continue to present the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, things will get a whole lot worse. We will start seeing our rights slowly strip away - in fact, it is already underway. It is now called hate speech to say that Homosexuality is sinful and wrong in the sight of God. It is now called a hate crime if a homosexual is assaulted - despite the reason surrounding the assault (which is exactly why we have the Matthew Shephard law that is now on the books and started the whole Hate Speech, Hate Crime movement, when his brutal death was not due to him being homosexual, but a drug addict/dealer who was beaten and robbed - his death was a political machination to bring about the new laws of the land to protect the minority that now act out in violence and protests that are not protected but allowed).

Yes, they have the privilege to preach their hate and condemnation, but they do not have the ethical and moral right to do so.

Ummmmm think you might want to double check with the Mathew Shepard thing. One of the killers said it had nothing to do with him being gay, after they tried the "he hit on me so i beat him up" defense. Their girlfriends said that both men had set out to rob a homosexual. The "drugs and money" thing came up after hate crime was mentioned after they had indicated his sexuality played a part in the attack which lead to his death. Also one fun fact, one of the killers was LDS and had just received one of the church's pamphlets that said something that was taken by many that it's ok to beat up gays for "self protection"

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Ummmmm think you might want to double check with the Mathew Shepard thing. One of the killers said it had nothing to do with him being gay, after they tried the "he hit on me so i beat him up" defense. Their girlfriends said that both men had set out to rob a homosexual. The "drugs and money" thing came up after hate crime was mentioned after they had indicated his sexuality played a part in the attack which lead to his death. Also one fun fact, one of the killers was LDS and had just received one of the church's pamphlets that said something that was taken by many that it's ok to beat up gays for "self protection"

1) I have researched it and the evidence supports that the attack was due to drug dealing.

2) How do you know that one of the attackers were "LDS" and had "received a pamphlet" as you suggest?

Regarding the latter- I have been in some instances where some gay men are very aggressive in their approach and in one instance, I had to actually use self-defense in the presence of a couple fellow co-workers who are gay and came to my defense rather than the guys defense.

Gay men (I am not sure about gay women) are very prevalent in bathrooms. I can't tell you how many times I have been propositioned in a men's restroom in a grocery store, a public park, or even at rest stops. There is a growing real problem of such things happening in our parks and public places.

However, let us get back to the point of the OP, the WBC has the right to speak their mind, assemble, and protest. We do not have to agree with it, we do not have to like it.

Are they wasting their time? Depends on how you look at it. Are they demeaning, crude, and disrespectful? You bet. Are they trying to get the message out of what is happening? Yes they are.

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1) I have researched it and the evidence supports that the attack was due to drug dealing.

2) How do you know that one of the attackers were "LDS" and had "received a pamphlet" as you suggest?

Regarding the latter- I have been in some instances where some gay men are very aggressive in their approach and in one instance, I had to actually use self-defense in the presence of a couple fellow co-workers who are gay and came to my defense rather than the guys defense.

Gay men (I am not sure about gay women) are very prevalent in bathrooms. I can't tell you how many times I have been propositioned in a men's restroom in a grocery store, a public park, or even at rest stops. There is a growing real problem of such things happening in our parks and public places.

However, let us get back to the point of the OP, the WBC has the right to speak their mind, assemble, and protest. We do not have to agree with it, we do not have to like it.

Are they wasting their time? Depends on how you look at it. Are they demeaning, crude, and disrespectful? You bet. Are they trying to get the message out of what is happening? Yes they are.

1) i've researched it as well and their statements as well as evidence as well as character witnesses all point to his orientation being a factor if not the main factor. The fact alone they tried the "gay panic" defense says that his orientation had to play some part in it.

2) if you did your reaserch then you knew this fact as it was published in articles about the young man. Russell Henderson was the name of the young man, though i will admit i've heard both that he was active and inactive at the time of the killing.

As for the bathroom thing it must be an american thing lol cause it sure doesn't happen much here and not something i think me or my friends would ever try. That being said I've seen the straight guys got after a guy they think is gay and try to beat the crap out of him, with no one wanting to go to the aid of the victim because they are afraid people will think they are gay to.

As a gay person i love this ruling. It shows that all the people who've sworn that gays will silence your religious freedom really have nothing to worry about, even if it's called hate speech, if you don't cross a line further than these guys you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

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