Vain Repetition


volgadon
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Using Matthew 6 to condemn Catholics for the rosary (and Orthodox for Our Father) or Jews for the Shema, or any other group for any rote prayer misses the mark. That the very next thing we find Christ saying is actually a rote prayer should be enough to alert us to the possibility that we are misreading Christ's injunction. LDS know that we have prayers both inside the temple and out of which which are rote prayers.

The key to understanding vain (the word meant something of none effect, not vainglorious) repetition lies in the prayers of the pagans. One need look no further than the Greek Magical Papyri to see examples of how prayers had to follow rigid and precise formulations, without which the prayer would have been of none effect.

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I tend to think of "vain repetitions" in a different sense. Certainly, rote prayers do not count as vain repetitions, as you stated. We use rote prayers when blessing the sacrament, performing baptisms, and other temple ordinances. So a rote prayer is not necessarily a "vain repetition". However, I would not particularly consider the prayers of the pagans to be "vain repetitions" either. Just having a rigid and precise formula for the prayer does not qualify it thus. Don't we have to repeat our sacrament prayer if it is not spoken, just so?

To me, vain repetitions depends entirely on where your heart is in the prayer. Do you pray for the same thing over and over and over again, without giving any thought to what you are actually praying for? Do you speak the words of your prayer and never connect with those words? People who utter a simple "Heavenly Father, thank you for this day, please bless everyone to have a good day and be safe, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen" are just as guilty of vain repetitions if their heart is not in the prayer and they find themselves repeating this same utterance day in and day out without giving it any thought.

Words have power when we put meaning behind them. Just as a promise has power only when we intend to follow through, a prayer only has power when we truly find ourselves having a conversation with God and asking for things we truly desire from Him. When the words we speak in a prayer mean nothing to us, they thus mean nothing to God and are then considered "vain", for we pray in vain when there is no power behind our words.

Power must come from both ends for a prayer to be effective. We must put power behind our words, and we must be praying to someone who can actually answer- God. When power is lacking on either end, that prayer is vain. Whether or not a prayer follows a formula matters little. What matters, is that the person saying the prayer has put heart, meaning and power behind their own words, and that they are offering their prayer up to God.

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I should add that the purpose of the "vain repetition" was to force God's hand by a combination of precise words and holy names. That is why it had to be rigid and precise. What Jesus does here is reject that notion, providing instead a formula of the things we are to pray. This formula emphasises not us, but the father's glory. There is nothing in it which would force God to grant us what we pray for.

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I was singing in another ward's Sacrament meeting about a month ago and there was an older gentleman that gave one of the Sacrament prayers. But the way he did it sent chills up my spine. It wasn't given as just a repetitious prayer that we hear every Sunday. It totally came across as heart felt as one who really understood the meaning and power behind the prayer itself. It really made me stop and think of the words as he said them.

It was awesome.

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A friend of mine recently illustrated what I think is a good example of a "true" vain repetition. We had had a couple of warmer days at the end of last week (mid-to-high 40's) and rain, which melted most of our snow -- yay! Then we got more snow on Saturday night. Not much -- I could still see the tops of the grass peaking out when I left for church Sunday morning. Anyway, my friend came over for dinner, and she laughed at herself about a prayer she'd given. She'd been asked to say the opening prayer in RS on Sunday, and as she put it, she "totally reverted to West Coast mode, and gave thanks for the 'moisture.' " She grew up in a usually droughted area, where any precipitation was a good thing, but in prayers was almost always referred to as "moisture." So that morning in Relief Society, she'd given thanks for the moisture (i.e., snow that we'd been getting since Halloween). She laughed about it, but kicked herself for actually expressing gratitude for it.

The point, though, was that it was completely automatic -- she hadn't been thinking at all about what she was saying.

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I was singing in another ward's Sacrament meeting about a month ago and there was an older gentleman that gave one of the Sacrament prayers. But the way he did it sent chills up my spine. It wasn't given as just a repetitious prayer that we hear every Sunday. It totally came across as heart felt as one who really understood the meaning and power behind the prayer itself. It really made me stop and think of the words as he said them.

It was awesome.

I miss being in my brother's ward. He blesses the sacrament every Sunday, and he always puts his whole heart into the prayer. In fact, every prayer he gives is strong and meaningful. Sometimes they are long, and if I'm in a hurry I find myself getting fidgety ad wishing he would hurry up. But as soon as I start getting that feeling, I am suddenly touched by the fact that my brother is having a truly heart-felt conversation with Heavenly Father, and the things he asks for are typically so very selfless. He is always so concerned about the well-being of everyone around him, and I love hearing his prayers.

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Using Matthew 6 to condemn Catholics for the rosary (and Orthodox for Our Father) or Jews for the Shema, or any other group for any rote prayer misses the mark. That the very next thing we find Christ saying is actually a rote prayer should be enough to alert us to the possibility that we are misreading Christ's injunction. LDS know that we have prayers both inside the temple and out of which which are rote prayers.

The key to understanding vain (the word meant something of none effect, not vainglorious) repetition lies in the prayers of the pagans. One need look no further than the Greek Magical Papyri to see examples of how prayers had to follow rigid and precise formulations, without which the prayer would have been of none effect.

Agreed. As a Catholic, I knew that while praying the Rosary, we were not simply repeating prayers mindlessly or "in vain", but meditating on various parts of the life of Jesus Christ.

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Using Matthew 6 to condemn Catholics for the rosary (and Orthodox for Our Father) or Jews for the Shema, or any other group for any rote prayer misses the mark. That the very next thing we find Christ saying is actually a rote prayer should be enough to alert us to the possibility that we are misreading Christ's injunction. LDS know that we have prayers both inside the temple and out of which which are rote prayers.

The key to understanding vain (the word meant something of none effect, not vainglorious) repetition lies in the prayers of the pagans. One need look no further than the Greek Magical Papyri to see examples of how prayers had to follow rigid and precise formulations, without which the prayer would have been of none effect.

I think I have a droid app that does something similar.

The Traveler

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Agreed. As a Catholic, I knew that while praying the Rosary, we were not simply repeating prayers mindlessly or "in vain", but meditating on various parts of the life of Jesus Christ.

Absolutely. It can be a very beautiful thing.

I always get teary when I read Graham Greene's The Power and the Glory. The title says it all. A man, who in most ways is far from being Christ-like ends up embodying the Savior's love and sacrifice when he puts the spiritual needs of others above his own safety.

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I should add that the purpose of the "vain repetition" was to force God's hand by a combination of precise words and holy names. That is why it had to be rigid and precise. What Jesus does here is reject that notion, providing instead a formula of the things we are to pray. This formula emphasises not us, but the father's glory. There is nothing in it which would force God to grant us what we pray for.

And I think this is an important component in prayer vs vain repetitions. Anciently, it was believed that if you knew the secret name of God or an angel, you could have power over that being. This is why Jacob asked for the name of the angel he wrestled with. This is why Yahweh gave his name to Moses, but commanded that it not be spoken, which is why the Jews do not repeat it, but use other terms, such as Adonai, instead.

In today's world, we do not focus so much on the power of an individual's name, per se. However, we often focus our prayers on things we ought not. How often have we prayed for excessive material goods, the power to get our revenge (like Samson), or to sin? Such would be a vain repetition, as well, even if given from the heart.

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And I think this is an important component in prayer vs vain repetitions. Anciently, it was believed that if you knew the secret name of God or an angel, you could have power over that being. This is why Jacob asked for the name of the angel he wrestled with. This is why Yahweh gave his name to Moses, but commanded that it not be spoken, which is why the Jews do not repeat it, but use other terms, such as Adonai, instead.

In today's world, we do not focus so much on the power of an individual's name, per se. However, we often focus our prayers on things we ought not. How often have we prayed for excessive material goods, the power to get our revenge (like Samson), or to sin? Such would be a vain repetition, as well, even if given from the heart.

Ram,

Speaking of revenge and such, could you explain to me what the priesthood prayer or curse or whatever it is -- of the dusting off of the feet of someone who holds the priesthood towards someone.

The reason I ask is that I remember you brought up the Hi-Fi Shop murders that happened in Ogden, Ut in April of 1974.

A father of one of the victims after the funeral supposedly dusted his feet towards the murders and then from what I remember his Bishop or someone heard about this and told him that he needed to call off the curse or reverse it or something?

I have never really known the official stance of the church protocal on such things or what is really involved -- I'm sure it is highly discouraged at the very least -- if at all practiced-- or is it more myth or what?

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Ram,

Speaking of revenge and such, could you explain to me what the priesthood prayer or curse or whatever it is -- of the dusting off of the feet of someone who holds the priesthood towards someone.

The reason I ask is that I remember you brought up the Hi-Fi Shop murders that happened in Ogden, Ut in April of 1974.

A father of one of the victims after the funeral supposedly dusted his feet towards the murders and then from what I remember his Bishop or someone heard about this and told him that he needed to call off the curse or reverse it or something?

I have never really known the official stance of the church protocal on such things or what is really involved -- I'm sure it is highly discouraged at the very least -- if at all practiced-- or is it more myth or what?

Probably urban legend, but I also heard of an area where some frustrated missionaries "dusted their feet" off, and an area authority had to come re-dedicate the are to missionary work. The elders in the story were sent home.

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There are several scriptural references to this, in both the Bible and D&C. The only one I can think of that refers to it as a "curse" though is D&C 24:15.

"And in whatsoever place ye shall enter, and they receive you not in my name, ye shall leave a cursing instead of a blessing, by casting off the dust of your feet against them as a testimony, and cleansing your feet by the wayside."

There are several others though, which simply refer to it as a "testimony against them". Matthew 10:14, Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5, Acts 13:51, and D&C 60:15; 75:20

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The Church has taught that we should avoid dusting our feet off, as it is only for extreme situations.

Elder Talmage wrote:

To ceremonially shake the dust from one's feet as a testimony against another was understood by the Jews to symbolize a cessation of fellowship and a renunciation of all responsibility for consequences that might follow. It became an ordinance of accusation and testimony by the Lord's instructions to His apostles as cited in the text [of the New Testament]. In the current dispensation, the Lord has similarly directed His authorized servants to so testify against those who wilfully and maliciously oppose the truth when authoritatively presented (see Doctine and Covenants 24:15; 60:15; 75:20; 84:92; 99:4). The responsibility of testifying before the Lord by this accusing symbol is so great that the means may be employed only under unusual and extreme conditions, as the Spirit of the Lord may direct"

As such, mission presidents have been advised to be extremely cautious using it, and in instructing missionaries regarding it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaking_the_dust_from_the_feet#In_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints

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The most clear form of vain repetition I've seen is when the prayer is given with the use of the name of Jesus added after every statement in the prayer. The form of the name varies, ie. Jesus, Father God, Holy Father, etc. I'll give a brief example, "We thank you Father for all the blessings you give us Father, and for how forgiving you are Father even though we sin so much Father...."

I understand that how one prays is all but instinctual given how we learn to pray, and I don't think that in such prayers the person giving them is any less sincere than I am when I am pouring out my heart to Heavenly Father. It's just that the phrasing is distracting to hear from my perspective.

I just feel that once we address Heavenly Father, we have his attention, and are thus free to say what is on our minds and in our hearts. The phrase from the Book of Mormon "And they think they will be heard because of their much speaking" always comes up in my mind when I pray.

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