Dealing with Spouses Pornography addiction

[Backroads]

So which is worse?

A woman feeling bad because her husband has a porn addiction or a man feeling bad because his wife has been saying such-n-such about him.

I would say that if all things were equal here, the pain is also equal.

I suppose we could upset the balance with the porn being preferred to the spouse or the talking getting extremely cruel and undeserved...

[MorningStar]

My sixteen-year-old wanted to get his mother a T-shirt that read, "I like my men cold, dead, and sparkly."

That's awesome. There was another one I saw that said something like, "And then Buffy staked Edward."

To quote my brother, "I have to get a second job because my wife saw Twilight seven times." She seriously did.

[sensibility]

Seriously? A man looking at pornography is equivalent to a man taking other wives?

Amazing. And people say men reduce marriage to sex.

No. However, they are both sexual transgressions. And since my point was actually that God doesn't forbid people feeling sorrow over their spouses' sexual transgressions, I think you'll find my point stands.

I'm quite interested that you've dragged my gender into this. Perhaps you can elaborate on why you felt that was an important factor. Incidentally, I've asked my husband and he agrees with my posts, so hopefully that helps you feel better about the whole thing. :)

[MorningStar]

Bill, it doesn't matter which behaviors are worse. The OP here was looking for help and if you read her post again, you'll notice she hasn't talked to anyone she knows in person about her husband, so I don't think the analogies and comparisons to other bad behaviors are helpful at all. She is reaching out anonymously because she refuses to betray her husband's trust.

Bottom line: Her husband has hurt her deeply and her feelings are valid. Telling a woman that it's "just looking" doesn't do anything to lessen the pain or the worry that his addiction is going to escalate towards even more serious behavior. It's not just looking. It's taking part in promoting a morally corrupt industry and degrading God's children, plus what is supposed to be a holy union between man and wife.

To expand on the issue of lying, it's not just about sparing feelings but to be undetected so the addict can continue engaging in the behavior he's not ready to give up. The lies are sometimes taken incredibly far. However you try to explain the behavior as relatively harmless, that is not how it feels to a woman and she can't understand why it's so hard not to surf the Internet for naked women/men and women/women and women engaged in perversion she would never dream of bringing into her marriage.

[billsmith]

There is righteous anger / sorrow which is both justified and useful. There is also the kind of vengeful grudge that is destructive to all involved. Righteous sorrow is not selfish. It's not "look at what you did to me you evil b*st*rd!! Righteous sorrow is "Oh my sweet wife that I love - how could you have done this to yourself? I am sad because you are destroying your spirit."

Huge difference there

Righteous anger is what Christ did in the temple. He, I am sure, was not concerned for himself. He was sad for the poor choices of his brothers and sisters. When he knocked over the tables and drove the people out he was not in his heart saying: oh you horrible people - look at how badly you have hurt me! His anger was based on what those people were doing to themselves. He was grieving for them.

I would humbly suggest that if I am looking at my wife's sin and dwelling on what that sin is doing to me then I am not being very Christlike. he commanded us to forgive each other. You can't forgive someone and hold on to your anger and resentment at the same time.

So many times we fall into that terrible trap of self righteousness that we can't see ourselves or our spouses for who they really are. It is a trap that is difficult to get out of because our pride gets involved. I don't want to accept that I am just as imperfect as she is. Deep down inside I know I am not perfect but I don't want to accept that. because that would mean i wasn't any better than her. So I lie to myself. I tell myself that my wife is a monster. She is the most horrible of people. She has done something which is destroying my life. etc etc. By horriblizing my wife I can deceive myself. I can truly believe that I am perfect. Unfortunately for me - I am causing myself so much pain. It is a product of the great mental energy expenditure involved in continuously lying to myself about who my spouse is that is causing the pain in the first place.

The thing is, I can stop the pain by admitting to myself that #1 I am not all good and #2 my spouse is not all bad. We are just two children of God trying to make it back to our Heavenly Father. If I can summon the humility to let go of the self deception and see my spouse as a human being and not a monster - I can let go of the pain.

As a spouse I have to ask myself if my pain is due to her actions or mine. Are my feelings towards my wife selfless or selfish. If I am really hurting for her then I am justified. If I am hurting for me I'm not. I know that is an incredibly difficult thing to come to accept. It takes enormous amounts of humility. But I guarantee that by being honest with yourself the destructive hurt will go away.

[the_mounts]

Seems to me like she is misurable because a certain lepard won't changes his spots.

If there is some one else out there that will not make her misurable then why not divorce?

Why can't a woman be married to a Mormon and not some back sliding pervert that causes her eternal pain?

Life is short and it's ment to be lived happily. We have devorce becuause of the hardness of our hearts.

So let's use it. A sad end, but isn't the continuation of that kind of environment just as sad?

Tell you what though, just to be fair, go through his mail box and his phone.

See any numbers that you don't recognize? Find out what those numbers are.

Do some digging in his personal life and stop being ashamed! He promised to be YOURS and you made a deal to stand by him. That's a commitment. An agreement. A contract.

If this was work there would be an investigation into the alleged breach of contract. So why not with him? We are talking about your life here. Internet porn might just be the tip of the ice berg. He may be sleeping around on you and sooner or later that will lead to divorce. Don't get blindsidded by this stuff.

PLAN a stratagy in case you need to get out. Maybe it's just internet porn, maybe it's much more. But if this is the life he is choosing chances are it won't stop at LOOKING.

Edited May 20, 2011 by the_mounts

[sensibility]

So many times we fall into that terrible trap of self righteousness that we can't see ourselves or our spouses for who they really are. It is a trap that is difficult to get out of because our pride gets involved. I don't want to accept that I am just as imperfect as she is. Deep down inside I know I am not perfect but I don't want to accept that. because that would mean i wasn't any better than her. So I lie to myself. I tell myself that my wife is a monster. She is the most horrible of people. She has done something which is destroying my life. etc etc. By horriblizing my wife I can deceive myself. I can truly believe that I am perfect. Unfortunately for me - I am causing myself so much pain. It is a product of the great mental energy expenditure involved in continuously lying to myself about who my spouse is that is causing the pain in the first place.

The thing is, I can stop the pain by admitting to myself that #1 I am not all good and #2 my spouse is not all bad. We are just two children of God trying to make it back to our Heavenly Father. If I can summon the humility to let go of the self deception and see my spouse as a human being and not a monster - I can let go of the pain.

Ah, now there, we fully agree. My husband doesn't look at porn, but he does have a few sins, weaknesses and quirks. They're not huge; my husband's a great person. But if I spent all my time staring at those flaws, examining them from all angles, drawing up spreadsheets of the negative impact they have on my life . . . our marriage wouldn't last very long at all. I would forget all the wonderful qualities my husband has, and his flaws would be grossly exaggerated. That kills marriages. You're absolutely right and I wish everyone knew that when they went into marriage.

That doesn't mean I have to look at a serious sin against me and against God and try to find the "bright side". There is no bright side to sin. It doesn't mean I should minimise sin by comparing it to more minor social infractions. It doesn't mean I have to pretend that it doesn't hurt. In a deep relationship, betrayal should hurt; it should be a major factor in motivating the offender to repent and change.

But ultimately, I think we're coming from the same place of wanting marriage partners to respect and uplift each other. Thanks for responding to me so politely, I haven't been as patient as I should and I know my tone got quite sharp at times. I apologise for that. Cheers. :)

[billsmith]

Thanks sensibility - I appreciate having learned a lot more about this from the woman's point of view. I would like to apologize to those of you that are going through this. I realize my way of dealing with things might not be that normal. I have no right to judge how another person deals with it. To be honest it is kinda weird having a wife with this issue. (yeah I actually did jump on this site for a reason). As I have read the other posts here I have come to realize that it is not at all the same thing. I'm the guy. I'm not in the same vulnerable position that a wife is in many times. Since I am the priesthood holder my family doesn't miss out on father's blessings, etc. If it was the husband then the family would miss out on those kinds of things. It doesn't really matter that he might have a lot of other good qualities. Thank you for helping me see that more clearly. Maybe some of my other posts were subconsciously laced with a bit of bravado because that is how I protect myself. I believe what I said but If my comments have been hurtful to anyone I'm sorry. I promise they were not meant in that spirit.

Edited May 21, 2011 by billsmith

[nipperaj]

When they say it is a selfish sin, they mean in recovery too.

[joyalgirl5298]

My friend, who was a stake president, told me that one reason pornography is so harmful is that it leads a man to view his wife in mechanical terms and be dissatisfied with a normal loving sexual relationship. It becomes boring to them. The other ill effects in terms of spiritual darkness have been delineated pretty well. But that was new information to me.

Very sad situation. I agree that internet filters and constant watchfulness on your part are not the solution. I also recommend some kind of recovery group for you. I've found Alanon to be very helpful God bless you.

[LDSJewess]

I have a few sincere questions about this thread as well as othert threads on this site.

1. What exactly is your definition of porn? It has appeared that pron definitions have run the gamut from girls wearing bikinis on the beach, waitresses in tanks and short shorts (as in the Hooters) thread, and everything from scantily clad people to internet "porn action" videos???? I find the seeming definitions to be extremily varied and hard to make comments when it is not defined or defined in such a varied way.

2. What is meant by porn addiction? Again defining porn would help but are we talking about people liiking at a Playboy mag or equivalent on the web, or oggling a girl on the beach, or frequenting adult theatres, or soliciting prostitutes?

I hate to sound so naive, however perhaps it is my age and culture but I have never met ANYONE in my entire life that I knew was a porn addict. Then again as a women I don't discuss my intimate life with my BFF, my female relatives or anyone except my husband since that aspect of our life is PRIVATE. And I would be willing to bet that he does not discuss our private life with anyone else either.

Furthermore my husband and I trust and respect each ther enough not to feel some need to investigate into each others personal business. We each have our own computers and we neither of us invade each other's privacy by checking online to see what sites the other visits. We don't even check each other's bank accounts except when we file join tax returns.

We are happy with our personal and intimate relationship with each other, but frankly I have no idea if my husband has ever visited a porn site on the internet. I have never seen any magazines laying around but I don't ransack his closet or his car or personal space, and he repects my personal space as well.

I do know that our marriage is satisfying and monogamous and we know each other and trust each other not to have an affair.

In my personal opinion if a spouse has any habit or activity that THEY have an issue in overcoming, they can obtain counseling or whatever they need to do to overcome their problem.

But if a spouse is trying to force behavior (or lack thereof) on the other person, it shows a great lack of trust, and it also is taking on the other persons potential problem upon herself.

I guess my advice, assuming this is the occasional visiting of adult internet sites, that otherwise have no interaction with another person (such as chatting with a person from a porn site????), and the marriage is otherwise good, satisfying and mutually respectful, I am not sure if looking for a problem is constructive. Just my opinion of course and it would help again to understand what is actually meant by pron and addiction to pron since variations in definition can make the eresponses variable as well.

[MorningStar]

I have a few sincere questions about this thread as well as othert threads on this site.

1. What exactly is your definition of porn? It has appeared that pron definitions have run the gamut from girls wearing bikinis on the beach, waitresses in tanks and short shorts (as in the Hooters) thread, and everything from scantily clad people to internet "porn action" videos???? I find the seeming definitions to be extremily varied and hard to make comments when it is not defined or defined in such a varied way.

I would say porn is any picture, video, book, etc. used for sexual gratification, but for the sake of conversation, let's say it means material that requires one to be 18 or older in order to look at it online or to purchase it.

2. What is meant by porn addiction? Again defining porn would help but are we talking about people liiking at a Playboy mag or equivalent on the web, or oggling a girl on the beach, or frequenting adult theatres, or soliciting prostitutes?.

I would say it's the inability to stop engaging in the behavior despite one's morals and any negative consequences they might face (affect on marriage, possible loss of job, etc.)

I hate to sound so naive, however perhaps it is my age and culture but I have never met ANYONE in my entire life that I knew was a porn addict. Then again as a women I don't discuss my intimate life with my BFF, my female relatives or anyone except my husband since that aspect of our life is PRIVATE. And I would be willing to bet that he does not discuss our private life with anyone else either.

You probably know plenty of people addicted to it. You just don't know who they are. :)

Furthermore my husband and I trust and respect each ther enough not to feel some need to investigate into each others personal business. We each have our own computers and we neither of us invade each other's privacy by checking online to see what sites the other visits. We don't even check each other's bank accounts except when we file join tax returns.

We are happy with our personal and intimate relationship with each other, but frankly I have no idea if my husband has ever visited a porn site on the internet. I have never seen any magazines laying around but I don't ransack his closet or his car or personal space, and he repects my personal space as well.

I do know that our marriage is satisfying and monogamous and we know each other and trust each other not to have an affair.

I have known other couples with the same philosophy and trust, but at times it presented the perfect opportunity to engage in inappropriate behavior. Also, pornography addiction is often discovered completely by accident and not because the spouse is nosing around. Examples: Inappropriate site is left up, spouse walks by just as something is being looked at, video store calls to say your adult video is overdue, porn pop-ups from a shared computer, spouse is cleaning when they find something, etc.

In my personal opinion if a spouse has any habit or activity that THEY have an issue in overcoming, they can obtain counseling or whatever they need to do to overcome their problem.

But if a spouse is trying to force behavior (or lack thereof) on the other person, it shows a great lack of trust, and it also is taking on the other persons potential problem upon herself.

I agree the spouse shouldn't take the responsibility upon themselves, but they do have a right to expect change that affects their marriage and the atmosphere in their home, also their financial well being. I know several people who were fired for looking at it at work. I even met a woman who nothing about her husband's addiction until he called her from jail. He had used company funds to pay for porn.

I guess my advice, assuming this is the occasional visiting of adult internet sites, that otherwise have no interaction with another person (such as chatting with a person from a porn site????), and the marriage is otherwise good, satisfying and mutually respectful, I am not sure if looking for a problem is constructive. Just my opinion of course and it would help again to understand what is actually meant by pron and addiction to pron since variations in definition can make the eresponses variable as well.

I think it's reasonable to look into it when their is odd behavior from the spouse and something feels wrong. If there is already a history of it and lying associated with it, it only makes things worse because they will wonder what else they lied about.

[hope2heal]

I shared this with a friend tonight. This is what porn has done to me and my relationship with my husband.

He doesn't want me. He wants a plastic, airbrushed, cold computer screen. I'm warm, I'm waiting to share love, joy, and a true connection. I guess I'll continue to wait. Alone.

Why? What's wrong with me?

It hurts.

[bcguy]

If porn is the top producing revenue source online, then it is problebly the #1 addition in the world today.

Take a look at this web site. It talks numbers one which country has the biggest revenue from it, and all bunch of other info.

Internet Pornography Statistics - TopTenREVIEWS

Now the question bears in mind, what causes men to seek it out. For me, I was exposed to it as a very early age. Decades before I joined the church, I lived with my parents that rarely went to church. Mom was the adventuresome person. She even would buy playboys and show them to my dad. For what ever reason, he never saw much interest in them, or any kind of pornography. I remember as a kid thay were selling all these playboy magazines in a garage sale, and it measured 3 feet high on the garage floor.

This is just a big global issue. I wonder why men like to view it? Do thay have sexual cravings at the time? Mabey sexual tension thay want to release? Why do we have 6 billion people on this planet?

[Martain]

While I expect I'll be reading through this entire thread sooner or later, I wanted to add something before doing so.

I recommend all families, especially those who have members struggling with pornography, to download a good filter like Blue Coat K9. Set strict settings and then intentionally loose the password. This prevents unwanted material from entering your home through the internet connection. By 'loosing' the password, you also remove the ability for the protection to be circumvented in moments of weakness.

If anyone feels this advice is valuable but doesn't understand how to intentionally loose access to change it, please let me know and I'll walk them through it.

Basically... the freedom of finding anything isn't worth the risk of finding something by accident. Remove even the possibility of temptation to arise from this entry point and you'll make resistance much simpler.

[skippy740]

You can use a random password generator on the internet. Set it for 15 characters, copy & paste the password in.

[dauser]

Obviously men have more interest in sex than they know what to do with.

That is the way God made them... it is perfect.

A man's mind wanders to intimacy about 1000x more than a woman's mind.

Men have intimacy deficiencies...like... all the time… and there is nothing wrong with that!

It is tempting to admire well tabernacled sisters in the JC Pennys swim suit section or anywhere else.

One dame is rarely enough… for most good men…

Men are wired that way and for good reason.

Thoughts and where they take us… like fire… can be controlled and worked with.

A wife can work with the way He is wired and benefit greatly…or against the way He is wired and loose bigtime.

More coming.

[honestabe]

careful the pride comes before the fall

[MorningStar]

Obviously men have more interest in sex than they know what to do with.

That is the way God made them... it is perfect.

A man's mind wanders to intimacy about 1000x more than a woman's mind.

Men have intimacy deficiencies...like... all the time… and there is nothing wrong with that!

It is tempting to admire well tabernacled sisters in the JC Pennys swim suit section or anywhere else.

One dame is rarely enough… for most good men…

Men are wired that way and for good reason.

Thoughts and where they take us… like fire… can be controlled and worked with.

A wife can work with the way He is wired and benefit greatly…or against the way He is wired and loose bigtime.

More coming.

And a man can work with the way his wife is wired and benefit greatly or against the way she is wired and loose bigtime.

"One dame is rarely enough." Wow. That's not a phrase most women want to hear. What is the "good reason" this is so?

Why is there nothing wrong with having intimacy deficiencies? Please explain.

[sensibility]

Just for the sake of anyone who may be very new to LDS teachings, Dauser is not representative of Mormon sentiment or doctrine. Most Mormons do not want a return to polygamy; my guess is that the women of the Church are particularly opposed. I certainly am. And our scriptures are excruciatingly clear that monogamy is God's preferred method of marriage, and polygamy is the exception:

Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

And, obviously, the Church also embraces Christ's teachings about lusting after other people in your heart -- specifically, that you shouldn't do it, and that it is, in fact, a sin.

[coruscate]

Now the question bears in mind, what causes men to seek it out. ... I wonder why men like to view it? Do thay have sexual cravings at the time? Mabey sexual tension thay want to release? Why do we have 6 billion people on this planet?

As an aside, it isn't just men that struggle. Women have the same urges as men and face the same temptations.

I think for most people it starts with curiosity. They hear about porn and decide to take a quick peek. After all, what can it hurt? (they think). With the Internet, it's easy to access. People no longer have to look their neighbor or mailman in the eye as they pick up the magazines.

Porn arouses intense feelings that are hard to control, and it is almost always paired with masturbation. It's like Pavlov and his dog. Pair one stimulus with another and they will reinforce each other. Except in this case, it isn't ringing a bell and giving a treat. It's looking at pictures and providing a sexual reinforcer. Our sexual drive is one of the most powerful we as humans have. When this is combined with our culture of laziness and instant gratification, we end up with an addiction epidemic.