Masturbation and Dating

[MorningStar]

From what I've heard, getting married doesn't cure anyone. Relations with your wife is a lot different than masturbation. Masturbation is about instant gratification and is not just a physical action, but there are inappropriate thoughts that go along with it. Actual sex takes a lot of time, caring, concern for your wife, etc. and you don't want to make her feel like her body is basically being used for masturbation. Men who have this habit before marriage sometimes choose masturbation because they want it and they want it now. They don't want to wait for their wife to be in the mood or for her to heal after the baby is born, or during long periods of pregnancy illness, or days or weeks of multiple children being sick, etc. You really can't plan on that solving what is driving you to do this.

I want to say though, good for you for continuing to confess. I think a lot of guys don't and lot of women are ending up with men who aren't honest about it. You will find someone special who loves you no matter what and will respect that you are the kind of man who puts his relationship with God first even if it might cause embarrassment.

[MorningStar]

Yes, marriage is not the magic cure unless it is utilized. Proverbs tells us to drink water from our own cistern and to be enamored with our wife's breasts at all times. This involves a choice of looking to one's wife, and not pornography or affairs, or anything else, for sexual fulfillment. In regard to your senario, if the wife withholds her body from her husband, she is in a state of sin. As scripture explains, the husbands body belongs to his wife and the wife's body to her husband. All too many women withhold sex from their man for whatever reason and then get bent out of shape when he finds what he needs turning to porn, or hookers, or having an affair. This is wrong and if this is happening, then the marriage is on rocky ground already.

Premarital counseling is priceless.

Sadly, there are men who withhold from their wives because they choose the porn. I know women who have been turned down by their husbands. I know of men who are able to become aroused by porn, but not by their wives. There are also medical conditions that can make it impossible or extremely painful for a woman to have sex like atrophic vaginitis, which is prone to happen while breastfeeding or during menopause.

It is a myth that men look at porn because their wives aren't giving them enough. They typically looked at porn before and continue to look, even using it on days their wives have had sex with them. It's really hurtful to blame women for porn or affairs when addiction is usually the cause of the behavior. To me it's like blaming a wife for her husband's drinking problem. I know many women who have tried to "cure" their husbands with more or "better" sex. Didn't work.

[Dravin]

Yes, marriage is not the magic cure unless it is utilized. Proverbs tells us to drink water from our own cistern and to be enamored with our wife's breasts at all times. This involves a choice of looking to one's wife, and not pornography or affairs, or anything else, for sexual fulfillment. In regard to your senario, if the wife withholds her body from her husband, she is in a state of sin. As scripture explains, the husbands body belongs to his wife and the wife's body to her husband. All too many women withhold sex from their man for whatever reason and then get bent out of shape when he finds what he needs turning to porn, or hookers, or having an affair. This is wrong and if this is happening, then the marriage is on rocky ground already.

Premarital counseling is priceless.

While I agree that withholding love, intimacy, and affection (and that works both ways) is not something conducive to a happy marriage such does not excuse sinful behavior on the part of the spouse. At any rate my comment was not about marital health but that he may not always be able to just have sex with his wife when ever he feels some pressure for a variety of reasons, and my examples weren't suppose to be some sort of long term manipulation on the wife's part.

[Jackol]

While I agree that withholding love, intimacy, and affection (and that works both ways) is not something conducive to a happy marriage such does not excuse sinful behavior on the part of the spouse. At any rate my comment was not about marital health but that he may not always be able to just have sex with his wife when ever he feels some pressure for a variety of reasons, and my examples weren't suppose to be some sort of long term manipulation on the wife's part.

While I do agree with you, even a semi-regular outlet that is only once a month would be more often then I masturbate.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

While I agree that withholding love, intimacy, and affection (and that works both ways) is not something conducive to a happy marriage such does not excuse sinful behavior on the part of the spouse. At any rate my comment was not about marital health but that he may not always be able to just have sex with his wife when ever he feels some pressure for a variety of reasons, and my examples weren't suppose to be some sort of long term manipulation on the wife's part.

Not to be misunderstood, there is no excuse for infidelity. What I'm addressing is how some women cannot see their own contribution to a deteriorating marriage that causes other forms of sexual release seem appealing to their man. Of course this goes both ways and it could be the woman looking to an affair because the husband is a workaholic and as such withholds his affections. I'm just addressing the senario that you brought up. You're right that men can masturbate and be guilty of other forms of infidelity even in a marriage, but I don't think this is the case with Jackol who seems to be resisting sexual sin as best he can and seeking a legitimate outlet for his urges. It doesn't sound like he will have this issue once he has a sexually active wife.

[Backroads]

Not to be misunderstood, there is no excuse for infidelity. What I'm addressing is how some women cannot see their own contribution to a deteriorating marriage that causes other forms of sexual release seem appealing to their man. Of course this goes both ways and it could be the woman looking to an affair because the husband is a workaholic and as such withholds his affections. I'm just addressing the senario that you brought up. You're right that men can masturbate and be guilty of other forms of infidelity even in a marriage, but I don't think this is the case with Jackol who seems to be resisting sexual sin as best he can and seeking a legitimate outlet for his urges. It doesn't sound like he will have this issue once he has a sexually active wife.

Yes, Jakol seems to trying hard! If it really is sexual frustration that is his problem, a healthy sexual relationship within marriage will help bunches.

Yes, both partners need to work together to make it work! If anyone recalls the whole sex therapy thread, I think it was discussed somewhat.

It's often said that men need sex to feel love and women need to feel love in order to have sex. It's an unbreakable cycle and I would daresay there's lots of truth to it.

[Dravin]

While I do agree with you, even a semi-regular outlet that is only once a month would be more often then I masturbate.

The question is what will semi-regular release do to the rate of pressure build up. At any rate I've made my point I'm not sure further elaboration of it is particularly going to make anything clearer. And I wasn't trying to make my case further, I was trying to communicate to St. Michael that he kinda ran with my example.

I'm just addressing the senario that you brought up.

My scenario was that he'd be horny and his wife might be unwilling (any guy who insists his wife have sex with him while she has a flu and is running to the bathroom every half hour is a cad) or unable to because of circumstances. Not some sort of systematic withholding of physical affection. Basically you kinda grabbed hold of it and ran with it, which is fine but it tends to break the connection between what I am saying and what you want to say.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

My scenario was that he'd be horny and his wife might be unwilling (any guy who insists his wife have sex with him while she has a flu and is running to the bathroom every half hour is a cad) or unable to because of circumstances. Not some sort of systematic withholding of physical affection. Basically you kinda grabbed hold of it and ran with it, which is fine but it tends to break the connection between what I am saying and what you want to say.

You think I would want to have sex with my wife when she's down with the flu? YUCK! Any man who wants that has some serious issues. Gross! I can't get that image out of my head. Thanks alot, Dravin!

[Backroads]

You think I would want to have sex with my wife when she's down with the flu? YUCK! Any man who wants that has some serious issues. Gross! I can't get that image out of my head. Thanks alot, Dravin!

Must... hit... non-existent... laugh button...

[MorningStar]

I know a guy who was hostile towards his wife if she didn't give him sex for 2 days. She was pregnant and felt like she had to throw-up all the time, so she just became resentful of him and his lack of understanding/self-control.

[HEthePrimate]

A bishop friend of mine told me that when his children were growing up, if their bishop (at the time) asked them if they masturbated, to tell him to mind his own business! My friend defines the Law of Chastity simply, the way it's defined in the temple--don't have sex with anybody you're not married to.

Jackol, my advice to you is don't worry about it. I'm not saying let loose and go crazy masturbating. Just that you obviously are making a good faith effort to do what's right, and if you "slip up" from time to time, don't worry about it. Go ahead and get a temple recommend. You're a good and worthy man, my man! Once you get a girlfriend, don't mess around with her--wait until marriage. And once you're married, always stay faithful to her. But occasionally slipping up? Pfft! Not a big deal! (IMHO)

Edited March 18, 2011 by pam
not appropriate

[Jackol]

A bishop friend of mine told me that when his children were growing up, if their bishop (at the time) asked them if they masturbated, to tell him to mind his own business! My friend defines the Law of Chastity simply, the way it's defined in the temple--don't have sex with anybody you're not married to.

Jackol, my advice to you is don't worry about it. I'm not saying let loose and go crazy masturbating. Just that you obviously are making a good faith effort to do what's right, and if you "slip up" from time to time, don't worry about it. Go ahead and get a temple recommend. You're a good and worthy man, my man! Once you get a girlfriend, don't mess around with her--wait until marriage. And once you're married, always stay faithful to her. But occasionally slipping up? Pfft! Not a big deal! (IMHO)

I have heard many others give this same advice. I even had a Bishop that didn't do anything about it as long as porn was not involved. It really seems to depend on the Bishop from my experience. Some will do nothing and others 1 slip up and you lose your recommend for a year.

Edited March 18, 2011 by pam

[rex8499]

I had a friend in high school who told me that to refrain from sinning with his thoughts while masturbating he focused on things other than thoughts of girls and just went through the physical actions to get relief. I never tried it, so I can't speak to how well it works. But maybe it would work for you.

A bishop friend of mine told me that when his children were growing up, if their bishop (at the time) asked them if they masturbated, to tell him to mind his own business! My friend defines the Law of Chastity simply, the way it's defined in the temple--don't have sex with anybody you're not married to.

Jackol, my advice to you is don't worry about it. I'm not saying let loose and go crazy masturbating. Just that you obviously are making a good faith effort to do what's right, and if you "slip up" from time to time, don't worry about it. Go ahead and get a temple recommend. You're a good and worthy man, my man! Once you get a girlfriend, don't mess around with her--wait until marriage. And once you're married, always stay faithful to her. But occasionally slipping up? Pfft! Not a big deal! (IMHO)

This is my thinking as well. The longest I ever went without it was 6 months, and it was 6 months of hell. Like you said, couldn't ever get to sleep, so horny I could hump anything with 2 legs. Marriage and occasional sex definitely made life much easier in this regard.

Here's another question I'll throw out there for discussion. Is it wrong to masturbate to thoughts of your wife if sex is too infrequent, such as during times of pregnancy or separation?

Edited March 18, 2011 by pam

[findingmyway]

You think I would want to have sex with my wife when she's down with the flu? YUCK! Any man who wants that has some serious issues. Gross! I can't get that image out of my head. Thanks alot, Dravin!

For better or worse :lol:

I must have skipped where someone said they have never masterbate. I want him on this post !!!!

Edited March 18, 2011 by findingmyway
correction.

[rex8499]

My wife is convinced that the majority of LDS young men don't ever masturbate. I call hogwash, but she states as her evidence that they told her so, spefically her good guy friends growing up. LOL Somehow, I'm still skeptical honey. But if it makes you feel better believing it, ok.

[g8trjasonb]

My wife is convinced that the majority of LDS young men don't ever masturbate. I call hogwash, but she states as her evidence that they told her so, spefically her good guy friends growing up. LOL Somehow, I'm still skeptical honey. But if it makes you feel better believing it, ok.

Um yeah, she's a bit naive if she really believes this. For one thing, how many young men would admit to doing it to ANYONE, let alone a girl/woman? In my mind, its not so much the physical act that is wrong rather where your thoughts wander to that makes it a serious sin. Especially when pornography gets involved. If I could do it on occasion and think of nothing but a white wall, then I would

[Backroads]

Yeah, there really is this double standard that all young Mormon men masturbate while the girls never do. The problem exists with both genders!

[ryanh]

Justification, rationalization, condescension . . . not sure you fellas are helping any.

We've been through this cycle before with other posters in the past claiming 'impossibility'. Go look up the threads. I call hogwash on it being a necessary relief for any but the most driven (outliers on the bell curve). Even then, it isn't a physical necessity to masturbate, only a change of mental state.

So, what is your guy's take on premarital intercourse then - let the boys do it because the desire isn't going to go away, and they ought to seek relief? Just don't "think" about what they are doing or have any feelings while doing it, and it's ok? The level of justification and rationalization is getting a bit ugly.

[Jackol]

Just to clarify for myself. I always confess to the bishop and I don't lie to get a recommend. My comments were addressed towards how 1 Bishop does almost nothing about it, and another takes your recommend away for 6 months to a year. I'm not saying one is right or wrong, but it makes it hard to date when 1 slip up during the year means you won't have a temple recommend for 6 months to a year.

I also agree with Ryanh about the mental state change. I admit I'm weak and can't resist. I try as hard as I can, but as the pressure builds I eventually have stretches where I go 5-6 straight days with 0-3 hours of sleep I'm exhausted, can't think straight, my mood is terrible, and that is usually when I break. I can't count the number of nights I have stayed up all night reading scriptures or out doing exercise of one type or another just to keep my mind occupied. I have the hardest time at night when trying to go to bed or waking up in the middle of the night. I am a very light sleeper and it doesn't take much to keep me from falling asleep. I'm not trying to make an excuse or rationalize what I do. I know it's wrong and I admit I'm weak. The only thing I can do is pick myself up and try again.

[ryanh]

Jakol, I have seen exactly what you are talking about in regards to different bishops applying different standards. It was certainly frustrating when I was dealing with such seemingly inconsistent standards. I feel for you. I'm likely one to lean towards the B's that measure effort and progress rather than absolute perfection.

I also understand the dating and temple recommend issue. I was there myself not too long ago, and yes, the temple recommend holding was a critical pre-screening applied to me. I can only imagine trying to explain that, but keep interest alive. Tough.

I'm a light sleeper too, although my frustrations while single (post divorce) were not something that caused me to awaken or prevented me from falling asleep. That has got to be maddening. When I don't get enough sleep, my ability to resist even donuts goes way down, (), so I can imagine it would make your situation all the harder. Have you ever considered sleep aids? Perhaps if you took a prescription sleeping aid at those times when most tempted, the issue would self-resolve like its supposed to?

I don't know what your situation is like, but for me, serious dating and remaining chaste was much harder than abstaining from masturbation. I might suggest you consider finding someone in a situation similar to yourself, who really wants to be married in the temple, but is willing to be married civilly first to get there, and go that route. If you have been trying this for years, and the end result is repeatedly the same, perhaps its time to try something different.

First though, I would see a doc about getting a prescription sleep aid if I were you.

[Jackol]

I might suggest you consider finding someone in a situation similar to yourself, who really wants to be married in the temple, but is willing to be married civilly first to get there, and go that route.

If I found someone I would, but I have not found anyone like that.

[ryanh]

Using on-line meeting sites I met plenty.

Have you considered, or have you dated divorcees? I found that divorcees were far more willing (and able) to discuss and understand such issues as you are facing. I met some great divorced LDS women who were pretty adamant they would not be 'neglected' sexually like they were in their previous marriage. I'd bet $0.02 that such a woman would take comfort from your struggles as she would feel confident that aspect of a relationship wouldn't be the same as what she experienced before.

[pam]

I'm going to speak as a moderator here. We need to be careful in the advice that we give people regarding masturbation on this site. I'm reading things such as "don't worry about it." "LOC only applies to having sexual relations outside of marriage."

This is blatantly false information. For anyone that is struggling with this, investigating the Church or just lurking to gain information the fact that members of the Church are stating these things can be taken the wrong way.

Go to lds.org and search for masturbation. You'll find numerous articles. Spencer W. Kimball, a former Prophet himself, says that masturbation is not approved by the Church nor is it approved by God.

Let's also watch the euphemisms used here as well. One in particular is not appropriate for lds.net.

[Connie]

The Law of Chastity states that one is to only have sexual relations with one person--their legal/lawful spouse. That includes not having sexual relations with oneself since you are not your spouse.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

I agree with Pam and I hope my first post on this thread was not misunderstood. Masturbation is an habitual sin and an impious exercise of lust. I would never suggest that anyone simply give in to this sin with insouciant glee. My advice is to strive for purity but understand that failures will occur. Unrealistic expectations and the disregarding of our personal limitations is a setup for devastating falls.