Fear I committed Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit


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I would like to tell you my story briefly and see what you guys think. I was a pretty hard-core Born Again Christian for at least 6 years. Then I eventually fell into disbelief and deep agnosticism. I totally abandoned the faith. During this time I said horrible things about the Holy Spirit, God, & Jesus. I viewed these beings as evil and unjust.

Now I've recently been called back the LORD. Or at least I feel that way. Through reason and logic, I believe in a Creator once more. Not only that but I feel Mormonism is the best representation of the Christian faith and the most logical. One big problem, though. I fear I have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I know Joseph Smith stated,

“All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy.’

Does this mean I'm not guilty of the sin since I was acting out of ignorance and had no physical evidence that God existed?

Edited by TruthSeeker11
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Guest saintish

that is the general consensus, from everything i have heard one must practically see the Father or the son and then deny their existence in order to be guilty of this sin. I think you are safe but if you are still concerned i'd suggest taking to your bishop about it. I'm fairly confidant that he will affirm my position.

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that is the general consensus, from everything i have heard one must practically see the Father or the son and then deny their existence in order to be guilty of this sin. I think you are safe but if you are still concerned i'd suggest taking to your bishop about it. I'm fairly confidant that he will affirm my position.

But wouldn't that contradict this scripture:

Alma 39:6 For behold, if ye deny the Holy Ghost when it once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny it, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.

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I'm not quallified to answer your question. You should speak with your Bishop directly.

But...

The Joseph Smith - King Follett Discourse quote that you gave indicates that you are not guilty of the ultimate sin against the Holy Ghost. That sin has significant requirements.

You have to basically see and speak with the Savior, understand the plan of salvation, have the Holy Ghost bear wittness to you that it is truth. And then reject it and fight against it.

For example Cain and Judas Iscariot.

There is hope yet.

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Have you tasted and been a partakers of some the things mentioned below?

Hebrews 6:4 - For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 - And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 - If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God

afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

The answer is, a person can become a son of perdition,,,only if he tastes and becomes partakers of the things of Light and then he consciously and willingly chooses darkness over light.

Let me give you an example on how hard it is for them who are of the Light to fall and not be renewed unto repentance....

It is to choose gross darkness while being under an Noon day sun.

This is way beyond being deceived for being in error. It is to willingly to choose gross darkness while being under the Noon day sun.

There is not a Christian on this board that can become a son of perdition simply because they have not tasted nor become partakers of the Holy Ghost. If they were partakers of Heavenly things...they would know of this teaching and confess my posts are true.

Now they are being deceived in this world, to coming out of the gospel of repentance and accepting doctrines of the gospel of perfection to by pass repentance.

For these this will be rectified in the next world. The only way a person will become a Son of perdition...is if He cannot be renewed to Repentance by the power of the Holy Ghost. Most people want to love GOD and their neighbors and it is this thing that will bring them to repentance when they will feel the the power of the Holy Ghost. Either in this life time or in the next.

bert10

I would like to tell you my story briefly and see what you guys think. I was a pretty hard-core Born Again Christian for at least 6 years. Then I eventually fell into disbelief and deep agnosticism. I totally abandoned the faith. During this time I said horrible things about the Holy Spirit, God, & Jesus. I viewed these beings as evil and unjust.

Now I've recently been called back the LORD. Or at least I feel that way. Through reason and logic, I believe in a Creator once more. Not only that but I feel Mormonism is the best representation of the Christian faith and the most logical. One big problem, though. I fear I have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I know Joseph Smith stated,

“All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy.’

Does this mean I'm not guilty of the sin since I was acting out of ignorance and had no physical evidence that God existed?

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I would suggest not using scripture to deny yourself a blessing from God. Is it hard for those who once believed, and then lost faith, to recapture it? Of course. Is it harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of the needle. Indeed! And yet, rich men enter heaven, and prodigals return home. Why not embrace the far more hopeful parable of the Prodigal Son? God is speaking to you--why push him away with harsh understandings of a few passages?

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But wouldn't that contradict this scripture:

The key is and ye know that ye deny it.

The person who sins against the Holy Ghost is not the one who merely doubts whether he ever really got such a manifestation, and expresses those doubts (no matter how virulently). The person who sins against the Holy Ghost is the one who acknowledges what it is, acknowledges having received it, but simultaneously makes war against it and everything it represents.

Denial of the Holy Ghost, in the scriptural sense, is not an issue of not knowing God sufficiently. It's a question of knowing Him thoroughly, but having developed a Satanic contempt for Him, His plan, and His followers.

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All rich men are going to resurrect and enter into one of the many mansion in heaven except for Sons of perdition whom the Lord said were going to be cast out into the Outer Darkness. Yet, even these will resurrect. After judgment day the kingdom is basically divide in two. Darkness and Light. And in the Light there are different degrees of Glory in order to accommodate that GOD said he will render to all men the rewards of their works.

The question of what type of Eternal Life the rich will have, depends on how much of God's Money they spend on their lusts of the flesh as compared to the poor.

It is a curse for 99.9 % of the people to have wealth. Since most cannot resist and will use it to buy mansions, have big swimming pools, luxury cars, expensive clothes, and other expensive things in their house.

Their love of self and comfort is displayed for all to see. And every dollar they spend on themselves to live, to eat and dress in luxury is a dollar refused to the poor.

These may profess to love God with their gifts to the churches and poor. But their love is greater on themselves and God will condemn such for miss-using the resources that belongs to GOD fulfill their lust of the flesh.

This life is the most important phase of our Salvation. However, it is not all there is. Sometimes only death can bring about a change in us so that we be "resetted" to repentance again. The Spirit prison mentioned in Peter is for such an occasion. It is our last chance .

bert10

I would suggest not using scripture to deny yourself a blessing from God. Is it hard for those who once believed, and then lost faith, to recapture it? Of course. Is it harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of the needle. Indeed! And yet, rich men enter heaven, and prodigals return home. Why not embrace the far more hopeful parable of the Prodigal Son? God is speaking to you--why push him away with harsh understandings of a few passages?

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Hmmm, and I thought this had only happened to me!

Many years ago when I was inactive, a thought became very persistent in my mind that because of my inactivity I had denied the Holy Ghost. This bothered me so much I knelt down and offered a very fervent, emotional prayer. When I was finished, those thoughts completely vanished. Later it became obvious to me that those thoughts were from the Adversary, because it's very easy not to understand what condition the scriptures that have been quoted are speaking of.

Those scriptures speak of those who have been given to know - shown - that Jesus is Christ by the power of the Holy Ghost. These aren't people who have faith - as Alma speaks of - that He is the Christ, but a perfect knowledge. These are they who have been visited by the Son and have a perfect knowledge of his divine calling and Atonement, yet deny Him and crucify Him afresh. This is a level of knowledge not generally achieved, unfortunately. Even Peter, who denied the Lord 3 times, who had been a personal witness to many of the important events in Christ's ministry, didn't achieve the level of knowledge of the meaning of these things until the Holy Ghost came upon them and manifested to them afterward a complete understanding of their import and meaning, and almost literally writing it into their souls, as testimony is written line-by-line into ours if we allow it.

If you had done this, you would certainly know. You would be a vessel of wrath. Those who achieve a bright light, if they fall, become a greater darkness than the fallen who had only possessed a lesser light. Just ask Lucifer.

Pray about it and ask your burden be lifted, and be at ease. I think you're OK.

Edited by gruden
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No, many people claim to be born again, and yet do not understand the Scriptures and know not the still small voice. So, we can know for sure that they are deceived and really do not understand what it is to "Be born of GOD."

To be sure there is a greater penalty for claiming like the Jews of old.. by saying "we see" and their sins shall remain with them until death if they do not repent before then. And from there they will go into Spirit prison and learn the truth.

bert10

The key is and ye know that ye deny it.

The person who sins against the Holy Ghost is not the one who merely doubts whether he ever really got such a manifestation, and expresses those doubts (no matter how virulently). The person who sins against the Holy Ghost is the one who acknowledges what it is, acknowledges having received it, but simultaneously makes war against it and everything it represents.

Denial of the Holy Ghost, in the scriptural sense, is not an issue of not knowing God sufficiently. It's a question of knowing Him thoroughly, but having developed a Satanic contempt for Him, His plan, and His followers.

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No, many people claim to be born again, and yet do not understand the Scriptures and know not the still small voice. So, we can know for sure that they are deceived and really do not understand what it is to "Be born of GOD."

To be sure there is a greater penalty for claiming like the Jews of old.. by saying "we see" and their sins shall remain with them until death if they do not repent before then. And from there they will go into Spirit prison and learn the truth.

bert10

Oh my word. The hits just keep on coming...

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No, many people claim to be born again, and yet do not understand the Scriptures and know not the still small voice. So, we can know for sure that they are deceived and really do not understand what it is to "Be born of GOD."

To be sure there is a greater penalty for claiming like the Jews of old.. by saying "we see" and their sins shall remain with them until death if they do not repent before then. And from there they will go into Spirit prison and learn the truth.

bert10

What does it mean to truly be born again in your view?

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I would like to tell you my story briefly and see what you guys think. I was a pretty hard-core Born Again Christian for at least 6 years. Then I eventually fell into disbelief and deep agnosticism. I totally abandoned the faith. During this time I said horrible things about the Holy Spirit, God, & Jesus. I viewed these beings as evil and unjust.

Now I've recently been called back the LORD. Or at least I feel that way. Through reason and logic, I believe in a Creator once more. Not only that but I feel Mormonism is the best representation of the Christian faith and the most logical. One big problem, though. I fear I have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I know Joseph Smith stated,

“All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy.’

Does this mean I'm not guilty of the sin since I was acting out of ignorance and had no physical evidence that God existed?

Lest we forget, one way the evil one gets to us is to make us think we are beyond saving. Get yourself right, talk to the Bishop, start living the commandments. Even some Nephites, who really rebelled, saw the light and were re-converted and saved. If you are still breathing, still repenting and trying your best to live honorably, there's nothing to stress about.

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Having doubts is a part of being human. Doing things that we regret while we were having doubts is a part of being human. Many of us have been there before, but thinking that you are not able to be saved is something that the adversary would want you to do. I am confident that if you are fully repentant, this burden will one day be completely lifted.

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I would like to tell you my story briefly and see what you guys think. I was a pretty hard-core Born Again Christian for at least 6 years. Then I eventually fell into disbelief and deep agnosticism. I totally abandoned the faith. During this time I said horrible things about the Holy Spirit, God, & Jesus. I viewed these beings as evil and unjust.

Now I've recently been called back the LORD. Or at least I feel that way. Through reason and logic, I believe in a Creator once more. Not only that but I feel Mormonism is the best representation of the Christian faith and the most logical. One big problem, though. I fear I have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I know Joseph Smith stated,

“All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy.’

Does this mean I'm not guilty of the sin since I was acting out of ignorance and had no physical evidence that God existed?

You wouldn't have come back if you had set yourself against the holy ghost...

But don't let that stop you from repenting. Do the best you can to make up for what you did, then trust god to take care of you beyond that.

There was once a man who had two sons and had a vine yard. The man went to his first son and asked him to go work in the vineyard, to which the first son replied that he would. Then the first son went and rested for the rest of the day.

Later that day seeing as the vineyard had not yet been tended to, the man went to his second son and asked him to toil in the vineyard, to which the second son reacted to in much anger, refused and stormed off. However later the second son had a change of heart, and returned home and immediately went to work in the vineyard for the rest of the day.

Now I ask you, which son will be rewarded for laboring in the vineyard?

Then ask yourself

Which son are you going to be?

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Does this mean I'm not guilty of the sin since I was acting out of ignorance and had no physical evidence that God existed?

I don't think so. Though I have a problem with your question, in that either all phyisical evidence (life, the universe and everything) is proof of God or it isn't proof of God. I would imagine that your realization that creation is evidence of a Creator is a spiritual sort of evidence.

I am an Evangelical TS11 and I understand from your posting that you are LDS. Likely we see quite a few things differently, but it seems to me that God has revealed his existence to you via the Holy Spirit, as this seems to be the way God speaks to us on such matters. In my terms I would call such an experience a "Calling" of the Holy Spirit.

I don't imagine the Holy Spirit would provide you with such information if you had sinned beyond the bounds retrieval.

I was raised an Evangelical and departed it for an agnostic/atheistic view for a time. Later I returned to a different sort of faith, but I count myself an Evangelical.

In retrospect, I realize I never really knew God early on. I just knew what everyone thought I should know about God. It wasn't enough for me, so I left it behind me. I made crass jokes and so forth. Likely you have done the same.

Regardless later in life God sort of smacked in the head with brick in a phenomenal way to me.... Likely I wouldn't get it otherwise.

After such a thing, I realized I never knew who God is earlier on. I just knew that who people told me God was, didn't make enough sense to hold to.

I wouldn't worry about having sinned against the Holy Spirit. If you had done so, He would not have called you to God.

The thing I would concentrate on, is that based upon your background experience + your present testimony. You are a very special sort of person.

Not everyone gets what you have in the way it's been given to you. Your experience alone gives you the leverage to reach those that need God.

If I were you I would pray that God gives you direction on the path you need to take from here and that he gives you courage follow through as best you can.

Regards,

Mudcat

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According to Scriptures and what God has taught me because I ask, seek and knock of Him.

Let us go to the NT. Gospel of John.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

The reason for this...when a person is truly born of God, he will know good from evil as clearly as Darkness and being under a Noon day sun.

The only way a man who is born of God can fall is by willingly choosing darkness while being under a noon day sun. For these there is nothing left to bring them unto repentance. As Jesus said once Salt has lost its flavor there is nothing left to do except to spew it out and to cast it out.

Now there are two types of men spoken of in Scriptures. The Natural man which is more known as the Carnal man and the Spiritual man..which are they born of God.

Now between the two only the Spiritual man can see and speak face to face with God in His glory without being destroyed.

In Hebrews we find: They who have received the promises.

Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

---------------------------------------------

As Paul said we must all run and not stop until we get the prize. What is the prize? The promises which the Apostles called exceedingly great and precious.

In the last days the majority of the people of GOD shall call these people fool and mad for their pointing out the multitude of sins with today's society. This has and shall always be the case until Zion is again on the earth.

Satan has had close to 2000 years in switching our sense of good and evil around.

if any Christian had for example said a 100 years ago that our society would legalized Abortion, Same sex marriages, removed prayers from schools and government. That we would have to hide monuments displaying things such as the 10 Commandments. Or that we would have gay pride parades he would have been tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail.

To know more of what it is like to become a Spiritual man in the full meaning of the term. The Lord allowed man to have ONE ACCOUNT of it...and you can find it...in the ODES of Solomon. In it He says that he received a body free from afflictions and pain. That even his family and friend no longer recognized him. That all now were seeking after his life and so on.

Here is the prophesy on the Spiritual man,,,which Isaiah used to call Wayfaring man, and Paul called them who are perfected and again so on. Jesus said few would enter by the strait gate and narrow way. God by Jeremiah said,,,that He will lead to Zion only one of a city, two of a family. Few means few.

Hosea 9:7 - The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred.

bert10

What does it mean to truly be born again in your view?

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Blah,blah,blah,blah,blah...........etc.......

bert10

Is it possible for you to post a reply on topic and in less that 1000 words? I can't speak for others here, but your continual ranting about off-the-wall things that vaguely relate to the subject are becoming annoying. Say something quick and move on. If someone wants a follow-up, they will ask you for it.

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Is it possible for you to post a reply on topic and in less that 1000 words? I can't speak for others here, but your continual ranting about off-the-wall things that vaguely relate to the subject are becoming annoying. Say something quick and move on. If someone wants a follow-up, they will ask you for it.

DUDE! Your speaking to the most learned, gospel following, revelation filled person on this board! :rolleyes: No one is above him and no one tells him what to say! If we don't understand it, we are not filled with the spirit of revelation and thus unworthy to understand his words. You know, like that one perfect guy.

And here I thought he was banned for telling women to take their lickings and deal with it because it was their fault. But like a bad penny...

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Is it possible for you to post a reply on topic and in less that 1000 words? I can't speak for others here, but your continual ranting about off-the-wall things that vaguely relate to the subject are becoming annoying. Say something quick and move on. If someone wants a follow-up, they will ask you for it.

I never thought you read more than the first sentence of a post anyway before jumping on your high horse about it.

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I would like to tell you my story briefly and see what you guys think. I was a pretty hard-core Born Again Christian for at least 6 years. Then I eventually fell into disbelief and deep agnosticism. I totally abandoned the faith. During this time I said horrible things about the Holy Spirit, God, & Jesus. I viewed these beings as evil and unjust.

Now I've recently been called back the LORD. Or at least I feel that way. Through reason and logic, I believe in a Creator once more. Not only that but I feel Mormonism is the best representation of the Christian faith and the most logical. One big problem, though. I fear I have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I know Joseph Smith stated,

“All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy.’

Does this mean I'm not guilty of the sin since I was acting out of ignorance and had no physical evidence that God existed?

Few people know the Holy Ghost well enough to commit this sin. I wouldn’t worry about the past but focus on the future. I have had some powerful agnostic feelings as of late, but also some spiritual experiences. I think we are all constantly going through different cycles in out lives. Good luck.

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Not only were you acting out of ignorance, but you did not become a complete enemy of Christ. You have to receive all the ordinances of the temple. You have to receive a full witness of the Christ. Then, you have to despise Christ, refuse his atonement, and become his open enemy by murdering an innocent. We only know of one mortal who has done this: Cain.

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I would like to tell you my story briefly and see what you guys think. I was a pretty hard-core Born Again Christian for at least 6 years. Then I eventually fell into disbelief and deep agnosticism. I totally abandoned the faith. During this time I said horrible things about the Holy Spirit, God, & Jesus. I viewed these beings as evil and unjust.

Now I've recently been called back the LORD. Or at least I feel that way. Through reason and logic, I believe in a Creator once more. Not only that but I feel Mormonism is the best representation of the Christian faith and the most logical. One big problem, though. I fear I have committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I know Joseph Smith stated,

“All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy.’

Does this mean I'm not guilty of the sin since I was acting out of ignorance and had no physical evidence that God existed?

If you were truely born again, You had all the evidence you needed.

I can't see how a person who had a real born again experience can do what you did.

Check you walk-away experience with Hebrew 6: 4--6 and Heb 10: 26--31.

God wouldn't call you into a mormon faith, If God was calling you back, It would be into a Charismatic type of Church that teach the rebirth, the baptism in the Holy Ghost and where the Holy Spirit is moving and the Gifts of the Spirit are in operation.

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