being happy with what you have

[Gwen]

Everyone interprets "abuse" differently. There is unrighteous dominion (which I believe is a fancy way of saying emotional abuse) and then there are daily beatings. Some situations have hope of change with appropriate actions, other you just need to get out of and move on. The bishop may know something is happening but have no power to change it, no authority to report it (if it's even reportable), and no ability to suggest the woman leave. In that situation all he can do is counsel her in how to best deal with her decision to stay until she is ready to do something different.

But really all of that is a side tangent to my original questions.

[Gwen]

Having ONE thing that causes one to be unhappy that the spouse can't supply that it becomes a reason for divorce doesn't sound realistic. Because, if there is ONE thing that is irreconcilable, that would have surfaced BEFORE the marriage.

How many threads do we have from spouses that are at a breaking point because of sex? That kind of difference won't be known before the marriage if you lived according to church "rules". There are other things you don't really know about people until you live with them.

Anyway, short answer is - you acknowledge the differences and work around it. It only becomes irreconcilable if you're too caught up in yourself to empathize with your spouse.

This only works when both spouses are empathizing. What if one is and the other is not? Then one ends up giving all to the other and is destined to be unhappy? How do you decide to want the spouse you have, the one that won't empathize with you? How do you choose happiness in that?

Edited May 2, 2011 by Gwen

[Guest]

How many threads do we have from spouses that are at a breaking point because of sex? That kind of difference won't be known before the marriage if you lived according to church "rules". There are other things you don't really know about people until you live with them.

I count that with the "not enough reason" for divorce. And yeah, unless the other spouse is handicapped and knows he/she is handicapped, we can't know that before the marriage.

[Gwen]

I count that with the "not enough reason" for divorce. And yeah, unless the other spouse is handicapped and knows he/she is handicapped, we can't know that before the marriage.

But that's the essence of my questions. If it's not enough reason for divorce and the other person isn't working on it (or they are but they just can't meet the need) then you can't be happy with that person. The only option you have left is willing yourself to be happy.

How does one do that? Can you really do that? Can you choose to make your need not at the level it currently is so that you can both be happy?

[zippy_do46]

Gwen, when I hear a story like this I think of the story of Ruth. We never know what life will bring. I think it is important lesson to learn that families are important no matter how they are formed. The hard part is knowing there are times when you have to step back and let them learn the lesson that life brings.

:) When I read one of the post I remember something I did when I was in your shoes. I looked at my new son-n-law and told him I liked his shoestrings. :) When I left the room, I think I heard him say something along the lines "she is hoping I will trip over them". After that every time I was around him his shoes were always had very neat bows. You know what I started thinking somewhere along the line. That it mattered what I thought about him. I started finding other things I liked about him. Though we do not always agree I can now see things about him that I really do like.

[JudoMinja]

But that's the essence of my questions. If it's not enough reason for divorce and the other person isn't working on it (or they are but they just can't meet the need) then you can't be happy with that person. The only option you have left is willing yourself to be happy.

How does one do that? Can you really do that? Can you choose to make your need not at the level it currently is so that you can both be happy?

I think you can so long as the "need" isn't really a NEED. For example, we all need food, water, shelter, and stimulation (social, spiritual, intellectual). Food, water, and shelter are pretty cut and dry. Stimulation- this comes in many different forms and some people need more than others in different areas. I include this as a need though because it has been proven that we need touch, comfort, education etc in order to be emotionally and spiritually healthy which in turn affects our physical health.

The ways we get such stimulation may not really be "needed". We can will ourselves into being happy with something different than what we are used to or expect. There are other things we think we need but really just want. For instance, many in the world to day are heavily technology dependant. We think we "need" things like cellular phones, internet connections, etc. This isn't really a need though (in most cases). It is just a want. Sure these things make life way easier, but they are not wholly necessary.

I need an internet connection to do my school work since I am taking online classes. However, I do not also "need" that internet connection in my home. I am able to get by without it. I only have access to the internet at work and can go to the library if I don't finish what I need to at work. I also do not "need" a phone. I have a pay-as-you-go cellular phone for emergency purposes that I hardly ever use.

When thinking about relationships with other people, everyones emotional/social needs are different and we have to learn to make compromises. How do we "make" ourselves happy with those compromises? Putting others before ourselves. Changing our behaviors and attitudes. Making an effort to understand the perspectives of the people we are compromising with- see them with God's eyes. Letting go of the things we cannot change.

[Guest]

But that's the essence of my questions. If it's not enough reason for divorce and the other person isn't working on it (or they are but they just can't meet the need) then you can't be happy with that person. The only option you have left is willing yourself to be happy.

How does one do that? Can you really do that? Can you choose to make your need not at the level it currently is so that you can both be happy?

YES... You can do that. We did it.

Think about this - if your spouse becomes a quadriplegic - are you going to divorce him? Of course not. You all help each other cope and adjust. Find ways to make things better. Same difference.

[ryanh]

Think about this - if your spouse becomes a quadriplegic - are you going to divorce him? Of course not. You all help each other cope and adjust. Find ways to make things better. Same difference.

For some circumstances, that kind of analogy might apply - esp when there is Alzheimer’s. Because there is a firm foundation laid from the years prior. I don't think the situation is always that simple though. When the relationship has been strained from the beginning, (unconsummated, abusive/controlling, etc) the considerations are fundamentally different than when an established relationship suddenly changes due to a tragic accident or mental decline. A couple may get past even an incredibly rough start if they continue to meet each others needs, however, that is not the type of situation Gwen is getting at.

[Guest]

For some circumstances, that kind of analogy might apply - esp when there is Alzheimer’s. Because there is a firm foundation laid from the years prior. I don't think the situation is always that simple though. When the relationship has been strained from the beginning, (unconsummated, abusive/controlling, etc) the considerations are fundamentally different than when an established relationship suddenly changes due to a tragic accident or mental decline. A couple may get past even an incredibly rough start if they continue to meet each others needs, however, that is not the type of situation Gwen is getting at.

What I am saying is - with proper preparation, getting to know the spouse better, being secure in the love and care that is present prior to commitment, you can overcome any* problem in a marriage - whether it be physical disability or otherwise.

*going into a marriage by deceit in Catholic doctrine and Philippine law renders the marriage null and void. I go by that principle. Bini's situation with her first husband made me think of it deeply and I would like to present that as a case of deceit going into marriage. Ignorance is not an excuse - but a cunning abuser that can hide his tendencies prior to marriage is different from being ignorant.

Of course, this is just how I view things from my experiences and my cultural background.

Edited May 2, 2011 by anatess

[crashdown]

I'm not understanding all this talk about needs. At what point does the needy spouse become responsible for his/her own needs? Why do we think our spouse should meet all of our needs? That doesn't seem humanly possible to me. Don't we, at some point, need to take responsibility for our own needs and find some way (within the appropriate boundaries) to meet them ourselves?

P.S. Gwen--I owe you an apology. I didn't mean to hijack your thread. I was simply giving my two cents worth to your question and it got away from me. I'm sorry. Please forgive me.

Edited May 2, 2011 by crashdown

[ryanh]

I'm not understanding all this talk about needs. At what point does the needy spouse become responsible for his/her own needs? Why do we think our spouse should supply all of our needs? That doesn't seem humanly possible to me. Don't we, at some point, need to take responsibility for our own needs and find some way (within the appropriate boundaries) to meet them ourselves?

If your spouse doesn't give you a glass of water, sure, you can go get your own.

If your spouse doesn't mean your sexual, emotional, or other deep seated need, where is a person supposed to go to get that desire/need met? In a moral way?

[Gwen]

P.S. Gwen--I owe you an apology. I didn't mean to hijack your thread. I was simply giving my two cents worth to your question and it got away from me. I'm sorry. Please forgive me.

I know how these forums work, and I am speaking generally which does make it hard for people to stay on a very specific topic. No biggie. And I'm ADD so my brain doesn't mind wandering now and again. lol

Since "needs" can be confusing take a different angle. There has been a lot of talk on the advise threads about love languages. Let's say the spouses speak a different love language.

Not talking mildly different where it takes a little "meeting in the middle" but completely different. Being on such opposite ends of the spectrum.

When one spouse is incapable of fully (or even just a large part) speaking the other's language and it leaves them hurt what are they to do? How do you decide to be happy when they never really touch innate subconscious part of you that needs to be touched? How does one change who they are so they can decide to be happy?

Logically you may understand their language and be able to say "ok, this says they love me" but that part of you deep inside that needs to be touched isn't feeling it. There is still something missing. Can that part of you be changed so you can be fully happy, is that a choice that can be made?

[crashdown]

I still maintain it is unreasonable to expect our spouse to provide for all of our needs.

Here's something to think about: is the unmet need(s) the real problem or is the real problem the expectation that our all of our needs will be met? I think sometimes our expectations get in the way of reality.

I think sometimes we go into marriage with expectations that are completely unrealistic. For example, we expect that our spouse will never gain weight or get sick, we expect that our children will always behave, we expect our house to always be clean, etc, etc.

But then reality hits and we realize that people gain weight and get sick, children misbehave, the house is always messy, we never have enough money, our spouse isn't prince/princess charming.

So what's the real problem here? Is it the marriage or the unrealistic expectations?

I think some people just expect more than their spouse can realistically deliver. So maybe part of taking responsibility for your unmet needs is to determine whether or not your needs are realistic.

[Gwen]

I still maintain it is unreasonable to expect our spouse to provide for all of our needs.

Here's something to think about: is the unmet need(s) the real problem or is the real problem the expectation that our all of our needs will be met? I think sometimes our expectations get in the way of reality.

I think sometimes we go into marriage with expectations that are completely unrealistic. For example, we expect that our spouse will never gain weight or get sick, we expect that our children will always behave, we expect our house to always be clean, etc, etc.

But then reality hits and we realize that people gain weight and get sick, children misbehave, the house is always messy, we never have enough money, our spouse isn't prince/princess charming.

So what's the real problem here? Is it the marriage or the unrealistic expectations?

I think some people just expect more than their spouse can realistically deliver. So maybe part of taking responsibility for your unmet needs is to determine whether or not your needs are realistic.

I agree this is frequently the case. The last statement.... What happens when you have one spouse that is realistic in the needs, willing to own their expectations and one that is not. What is the realistic spouse to do? You can't force the other spouse to change their view of things, you can't force them to own their own expectations. As long as they are focused on you meeting or not meeting their needs they aren't focused on you. So you now carry the weight of both your needs.

Can one will them self to be ok with that? Can you choose to want a spouse who thinks like that (want what you have) and be happy?

[ryanh]

I think some people just expect more than their spouse can realistically deliver. So maybe part of taking responsibility for your unmet needs is to determine whether or not your needs are realistic.

And so. . . . where exactly do you draw the line yourself? Can you dumb down your "expectation" for food, water, and air?

How about basic needs for attention or affection. If you don't think these are real needs, I suggest you do some reading on the topic. They may be on a spectrum, and not as basic and immediate as physical nourishment, but they certainly are not as trivial as an expectation such as hair length, hair color, or deodorant fragrance. But, it is pretty well established that for a person to thrive, there are certain emotional needs.

Where do you draw the line crash? At what point is a relationship just missed expectations, and when does it become a 'relationship' that drags a person down and subverts their sense of worth? How do you think one adjusts expectations in the middle of a situation where a person's sense of worth is sinking simply from neglect (no overt abuse)?

Jonathan Halverstadt, M.S.

Significance. We all need it. We always have, beginning at birth. Without significance, babies die, from an affliction called "failure to thrive," "Failure to thrive" was identified at an orphanage where babies were having all of their basic physical needs met. They were sheltered from the elements, fed, clothed, and changed. If they had any medical needs, those needs were met by a full-time staff of doctors and nurses who were there around the clock to make certain they were healthy. Everything they needed physically was provided for. Still, babies died. It was baffling, By all rights, these babies should have flourished.

Then one day a nurse figured it out. She observed that the babies who were dying were those in the cribs against each of the four walls. These were the babies who were furthest away from human contact as the doctors and nurses walked through the ward. She also noticed that the babies who were thriving were the babies closest to the center aisle, and that as the doctors and nurses walked down that center aisle, they would always make eye Contact

with the babies and talk to them and touch them. Think about it. It's almost impossible to walk past an infant without being drawn to them in some way.

The babies who were doing well were the ones who experienced significance-the quality of feeling valuable, important, and loved-through the contact made by the doctors and nurses as they passed by. Since then, maternity wards have never been the same. Now you will find specific times set aside for mommy and baby to connect. You'll find rocking chairs and volunteer grandparents to rock and talk to the babies. When the baby's significance needs are

being met (along with their other needs), the baby will thrive and flourish.

It's not that much different with us in romantic relationships. We don't need the eye contact an infant needs for developing a sense of significance, we're already adults. But, we definitely need to know and feel that we are significant to our partner-and vice versa-in order for the relationship to flourish. This sense of significance is so very important to each partner and to the well-being of the relationship.

[crashdown]

And so. . . . where exactly do you draw the line yourself? Can you dumb down your "expectation" for food, water, and air?

How about basic needs for attention or affection. If you don't think these are real needs, I suggest you do some reading on the topic. They may be on a spectrum, and not as basic and immediate as physical nourishment, but they certainly are not as trivial as an expectation such as hair length, hair color, or deodorant fragrance. But, it is pretty well established that for a person to thrive, there are certain emotional needs.

Where do you draw the line crash? At what point is a relationship just missed expectations, and when does it become a 'relationship' that drags a person down and subverts their sense of worth? How do you think one adjusts expectations in the middle of a situation where a person's sense of worth is sinking simply from neglect (no overt abuse)?

I don't disagree with you ryanh. I guess I just see it from a different perspective. You do remember, I am the one living in an abusive marriage. I KNOW attention and affection are real needs, I KNOW people have emotional needs that are "must haves"---I know because I have lived without it!!! I KNOW a persons sense of worth can sink due to neglect, I am the walking poster child for it!!!!

But may I humbly share with you a few things I have learned over the course of this marriage? These things may not be easy to understand.

I have learned that I can't change my hubby. I can't force him to be something he is not. I have learned that I have to take responsibility for my own needs. I cannot depend on everyone else to meet them for me. I have learned that as long as I am with my hubby, certain real needs are going to be unmet. Will they be unmet forever? No. Eventually, I will have all the desires of my heart and then some, if I remain worthy. It's what I hope and pray for every day of my life.

However, in the meantime, I have to live. I guess that's where I draw the line. I know that if I'm going to have any quality of life, I'm going to have to make some adaptations, either that or get a divorce (which is not an option right now) or just remain miserable (which is also not an option). So.....I changed my expectations. I have learned to look for the good where I can. I have learned to meet my own needs as best as I can and make substitutions for them where I can. I have learned that I may have to wait for some of my needs to be met and it'll be OK. I have learned that these changed expectations may not be the desire of my heart, but I can still have a very good, very happy quality of life!! I have learned that I can still thrive in spite of it all!!

Is that lowering my expectations? Is that settling? Naive? Foolish? I don't know. Maybe it is. But I do know this: I am not unhappy. I am not defeated.

I believe my happiness, my life, is nothing short of a miracle. I believe the Lord has blessed me richly! I believe it is He who has helped me thrive in my present situation. I believe it is He who has provided me with these marvelous coping strategies. They have become powerful weapons in my arsenal and this thread has reminded me of how profoundly grateful I am for them and for all the love and tender mercy the Lord has shown unto me!!!!

[Guest]

And there it is.

Divorce is not an option*.

I like that.

*of course there are exceptions - but when you say you are Pro-Life, you don't really mean you want the mother to die to save the baby. Same thing with marriage.

[JudoMinja]

Thank you so much crashdown. Your last post reminds me of my own present situation. As a single mother, I have emotional "needs" that are being unmet as I have no spouse to fulfill them. Sometimes, I heavily feel that lack and it makes my shoulders heavy. Other times, I feel like I'm doing so well on my own having a spouse would just make things harder. The thing is, the way we fulfill our emotional needs does not have to be the same as we would "like" or "expect".

I can be happy in my present situation and find ways to fulfill my needs as best I can without a spouse, knowing that someday in the future I may have what I currently lack. I do not try to kid myself into believe that marriage will "fix all my problems" or that a future spouse will be "perfect" for me and fulfill my every need. Of course not. I am working on fixing my own problems in the here and now. I am not expecting anyone to come along and "save" me, because I do not need saving (except the atonement of course- I need that :)).

Though humans are innately social creatures, we are all capable of meeting our own needs entirely on our own. We are all capable of being entirely independent (as adults- kids need help and nurturing from their parents). It may not be as rich and fulfilling as a life with others meeting our emotional and social needs, but it is still possible to survive and be happy.

For example, I like to come to this forum because it gives me the intellectual and spiritual stimulation I cannot get elsewhere. Could I get by without it? Sure. Could I be happy without it? Certainly. My life is just more fulfilling with it, as I am able to expand my mind and learn from stimulating interaction with others.

I think what we are really talking about here is Maslow's hierarchy of needs:

Now, I don't exactly agree with where every need falls on this pyramid, but the idea is sound.

As long as all the needs on the bottom are being met, we can then focus on the next level. As long as those needs are being met, we can focus on the next level, and so on and so forth until we reach the top. It is possible to find happiness at any point in this pyramid (I think) as long as the needs of the bottom two levels are at least being met. Anything above that is just "extra" to bring added fulfillment and happiness on top of what we already have.

We cannot expect someone else to fulfill those needs for us. We have to take action if we want them met. If one area is not meeting these needs, we can seek out fulfillment in another area. Like how I seek out intellectually/spiritual stimulation here since I do not have a spouse or other person I know physically who can provide that.

[Elphaba]

Depends on the kind of abuse. You have to keep in mind church leaders can not counsel someone to get a divorce.

They can't? What if it's an obviously extreme case of abuse? He's supposed to tell them to stay and work it out?

Abuse is abuse. The fact that there are differing degrees does not make the word mean something that's not really all that bad. The reason it is abuse is because it IS that bad. Otherwise, it's not truly abuse and the word is being used incorrectly.

Additionally, there are many situations where the abuse does end, but that's only if the abuser takes complete responsibility for his/her actions, and only if ALL parties involved are committed to ending it, including being willing to take the proper therapy(pies), and a lot of very hard work.

However, ending the abuse doesn't mean the damage it's already caused to the children ends as well. As long as there is some sort of abuse occuring in the home, from a purely physiological standpoint the children's brains have been literally and permanently scarred, even if they have happy family vacations between the abuse.

That's not to say the happy vacations don't also nurture little developing brains, because they do. But it's not as if two parts abuse + two parts abuse equals four parts damage. It's more like 2+2=100 parts permanent damage, damage to parts of little brains that will then forever be unable to develop healthily in response to the happy family vacations that also occur in their lives. And the longer the abuse occurs and the older the child gets, the more diminished is his/her brain's ability to respond healthily to the happy vacations.

Additionally, fundamental developmental changes only occur during certain ages of a child's life, and when abuse occurs during those ages, those developmental changes are delayed or never occur completely. Thus, even when the parents are able to end the abuse permanently, if it ends after these developmental milestone ages have passed, they simply never occur. This will negatively affect them in numerous ways for the rest of their lives, most importantly emotionally.

To add to the tragedy, these children will grow into adults who are very likely to perpetuate the same kind of abuse onto their own children, and on it goes.

Abuse literally and permanently kills children's minds, and I'm sickened at how it's being dismissed by "no divorce at any cost," or "find the good things in the abusive marriage." There are times when, for the sake of the children, doing anything and everything necessary to get children away from the abuse as soon as possible is a must, even if that means divorce, and even if a bishop can't counsel such.

The only time someone, including the bishop, should tell someone else to "look for the good things in the marriage" to the exclusion of every single other requirement necessary to end the abuse is when it's not really that bad, and if it's not really that bad, it's not abuse.

Elphaba

[ryanh]

I don't disagree with you ryanh. I guess I just see it from a different perspective. You do remember, I am the one living in an abusive marriage. I KNOW attention and affection are real needs, I KNOW people have emotional needs that are "must haves"---I know because I have lived without it!!! I KNOW a persons sense of worth can sink due to neglect, I am the walking poster child for it!!!!

First, chill a little, ok? I don't disagree, and don't think the perspectives we are coming from are all that different. You don't know how I struggled with this and finding happiness amidst emotional neglect for more than a decade. I have come to many of the same conclusions you have. But, when you define what your thoughts are primarily though rhetorical questions surrounding a statement of "I'm not understanding all this talk about needs.", you are going to be questioned on where you really stand.

There are a number of articles I have found over the years on finding happiness amidst trials and difficulties. One of the better for my perspective is a 2000 BYU Devotional: Elements of Happiness by Donald N. Wright

I am not very effective in sharing my thoughts via type (or verbally), so I often draw from quotes of others to more eloquently share what I'm thinking. The following quotes capture a good part of my feelings about this topic of finding happiness in a difficult marriage.

The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.

Carlos Castenado

Both abundance and lack [of abundance] exist simultaneously in our lives, as parallel realities. It is always our conscious choice which secret garden we will tend... when we choose not to focus on what is missing in our lives but are grateful for the abundance that's present - love, health, family, friends, work, the joy's of nature, and personal pursuits that bring us happiness - the wasteland of illusion falls away and we experience heaven on earth

Sarah Ban Breathnach

I really like that last one. And I think that is what you Bishop was probably getting at (at least in part) Crash. Richard G. Scott compares the issue to holding a "pebble" and the various possible perspectives. If we hold that pebble (problems, issues, shortcomings) in front of our eye, then that is all we can see. However, when we hold it back, or even cast it on the ground, it can be seen in perspective. And we can then see all the beauty around in the world that couldn't be seen when we were so closely focused on the 'pebbles' of our lives.

That, IMO, is a huge part of finding happiness amidst adversity. Keeping it in perspective, and not holding a pebble immediately in front of our eye longer than is necessary to inspect and understand it. Cast it to the ground and put it in perspective with the whole after understanding it.

[Guest]

That, IMO, is a huge part of finding happiness amidst adversity. Keeping it in perspective, and not holding a pebble immediately in front of our eye longer than is necessary to inspect and understand it. Cast it to the ground and put it in perspective with the whole after understanding it.

Whoa... That's from that movie Soul Surfer! :)

[ryanh]

Whoa... That's from that movie Soul Surfer! :)

I've never seen the movie. And I far perfer the context in which Elder Scott shared it anyway.

[Guest]

I've never seen the movie. And I far perfer the context in which Elder Scott shared it anyway.

You gotta watch it! There's not enough wholesome Hollywood movies that when one comes up on the big screen - especially if it's as good as Soul Surfer - it's a good thing to support it so Hollywood will make more of them!

[ryanh]

Though humans are innately social creatures, we are all capable of meeting our own needs entirely on our own. We are all capable of being entirely independent (as adults- kids need help and nurturing from their parents).

What you define as "needs" is critical here. Are you talking only about the bottom two levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs? Because to progress into the third, middle level, it requires socialization with others! That is a huge part of why we often find it difficult to be "happy" in the middle of a discordant intimate relationship - esp when it is a marriage that is the discordant relationship.

Either the 'needs' as defined by Maslow are not being met and we cannot progress to higher levels, or we become hyperfocused (the pebble analogy in my previous post) on the failings in this area, and have difficulty moving on. And, as Maslow points out (and frequently this is more true for men than women), sexual fulfillment is a key component to progressing to higher levels in Maslow's hierarchy of 'needs'. For LDS, there is only partial progression into higher levels without marriage. The parts of the pyramid built above the middle layer are on a "incomplete" foundation - one lacking sexual fulfillment. And, situations like yours, mine (in the past), Crash's, Gwen's hypothetical situations, and many others show how many of us get "stuck" at that middle layer because we are not finding the social fulfillment we desire (need).

While I do believe we can be genuinely "happy" without being married, or while in a difficult marriage, etc, etc, below are some of my thoughts on one reason we may find it difficult to do so unless we recognize the obstacle faced. Rather than retyping or taking additional time to edit it, I'm going to copy and past what I posted to another forum system that deals specifically with difficult marriages.

It is noteworthy to me that even though the range of complaints are wide, the end result seems to be the same type of frustration. What is it that sharing of chores, sex (both too much and too little), timeliness, planning, denial, cutting remarks, finances, arrogance, hygiene, and all of the other shared complaints have in common? We frequently talk about the specific behaviors, but, why? What is it about those specific behaviors that makes all of them seem so deflating in the same manner?

I do believe that there is at least one thing that almost all of our complaints have in common – the specific behaviors communicate to us the message from our spouse: You’re Not Important To Me. The various nuances of what specifically is communicated might be slightly different, but the end result is the demonstration, the proof that our spouse does not value us. And even if they do in reality value us, their actions speak louder than their words, and have the greater impact on us.

This concept really hit home to me a few years back when contemplating why I felt so hurt by my ex’s lack of attention to my "needs". I knew it wasn’t because I needed intimacy. Of course I could survive and get along without it. My former spouse would continually forget what emotional needs were important to me (and thus facebook, or the dishes, or being out with friends was always preventing being together). I eventually came to the conclusion that why it hurt so much is that it communicated to me that my desires were not important to her – hence I was not important to her.

As an additional, yet opposite (too much attention, not neglect) example, the message of lack of significance is analogous to the reason I dislike being micromanaged at work. In effect, a person micromanaging me is telling me they doesn’t think I’m capable of handling even basic and simple tasks. It communicates a degree of mistrust/lack or confidence. But, unlike basic love/respect or importance/significance, these messages of trust are not so foundationally damaging to a relationship. We can still get along with and love someone that doesn’t have a perfect concept of us. But we don’t want to share our life with someone that thinks of us as insignificant or unimportant.

I believe this message of conveying significance or importance to a spouse is at the root of behaviors popular marriage therapies and theories promote. The Chapman's The Five Love Languages and Hartman's His Needs, Her Needs (MarriageBuilders.com) both have similar theories about showing our spouse love in the way that is most meaningful to them. Many counseling techniques I’m familiar with focus on this effect too, even though not necessarily defined that way. It seems that whatever I think of, I can trace back to more than just functionality (more than just being effective at communication, effective at task sharing), but in effect work at rebuilding the conveyance that the other person is significant to the one modifying their behavior.

I can recall as far back as 18 years ago some statements in a psych class from Dr. Gottman’s research about marriage and divorce – something to the effect that the likelihood of a person seeking divorce had more to do with that individuals perception of how their spouse viewed them or felt about them, than how their spouse actually viewed or felt about them. Think about that! In some instances, perception is reality; but in this case perception is more important than reality!!! How a spouse thinks the other spouse views them was more of a determinant in predicting subsequent divorce than how that spouse actually viewed them! (That finding says a whole lot about how to have a successful marriage - in many, many ways.) That stuck with me all these years, and I thought it made sense, but it really began to make sense after reading the following.

Below is a section from the book ADD & Romance that began the congeal my thoughts on this matter.

MOST CONFLICTS IN A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP ARE NOT ABOUT THE CONFLICT - THEY ARE ABOUT SIGNIFICANCE.

Tattoo that sentence on your brain. Write it on your hand. Make sticky notes and put them on your bathroom mirror. Put them on the dash of your car. Put them anywhere you will see them. Memorize that sentence until it sinks into the deepest parts of your soul. Always place it in the forefront of your conscious thinking. That way, when you need it most, it will pop up and stare you in the face. It will act as a constant reminder of the direction you need to go in order to resolve conflicts and develop better communication skills so you can have the quality of relationship you deserve.

Significance. We all need it. We always have, beginning at birth. Without significance, babies die, from an affliction called “failure to thrive,” “Failure to thrive” was identified at an orphanage where babies were having all of their basic physical needs met. They were sheltered from the elements, fed, clothed, and changed. If they had any medical needs, those needs were met by a full-time staff of doctors and nurses who were there around the clock to make certain they were healthy. Everything they needed physically was provided for. Still, babies died. It was baffling, By all rights, these babies should have flourished.

Then one day a nurse figured it out. She observed that the babies who were dying were those in the cribs against each of the four walls. These were the babies who were furthest away from human contact as the doctors and nurses walked through the ward. She also noticed that the babies who were thriving were the babies closest to the center aisle, and that as the doctors and nurses walked down that center aisle, they would always make eye contact with the babies and talk to them and touch them. Think about it. It's almost impossible to walk past an infant without being drawn to them in some way.

The babies who were doing well were the ones who experienced significance-the quality of feeling valuable, important, and loved-through the contact made by the doctors and nurses as they passed by. Since then, maternity wards have never been the same. Now you will find specific times set aside for mommy and baby to

connect. You'll find rocking chairs and volunteer grandparents to rock and talk to the babies. When the baby's significance needs are being met (along with their other needs), the baby will thrive and flourish.

It's not that much different with us in romantic relationships. We don't need the eye contact an infant needs for developing a sense of significance, we're already adults. But, we definitely need to know and feel that we are significant to our partner-and vice versa-in order for the relationship to flourish. This sense of significance is so very important to each partner and to the well-being of the relationship.

Now, the reason I had you tattoo onto your brain that sentence- about conflicts being more about significance than they are about conflict-is because this concept plays a vital role in communication. When we listen to our partner and they listen carefully to us, here's the underlying message that comes across, no matter what the topic of conversation is: “You are significant to me. I want to know and understand you. I want to take the time to know who you really are. I want you to know that I care about you.”

Good, clear communication is one of the tools we use to bond with each other and to have our significance needs met. We need to know that our voice is being heard, understood, and taken into consideration by our mate. Communication that does this is essential to the relationship, Believe it or not, having our significance needs met through good communication is often more important than getting our way or having our partner agree with us. Whether we're yelling at each other or whispering, both of us need to know and feel that we are significant enough to each other that our wants, needs, and desires are being heard. It doesn't mean we always get our way, but it does mean that our way merits equal consideration in the discussion. As I said earlier, most conflicts are not about the conflict, they are about significance.

I’m reading a new book now – Dr. Gottman’s Why Marriages Succeed or Fail. This was at the suggestion of a counselor my girlfriend [now wife] and I saw recently (it is soooooo nice to be seeing a counselor for preventative reasons, not because a relationship is crap!!!) I haven’t read much but the first chapter so far, but I can see how much of the information Gottman is sharing fits into the significance idea I am coming to an understanding of. One interesting thing that Gottman makes very clear – that a couple fights is not inherently a sign of problems. It is how they fight that matters far more. Conflict can be a good thing in marriage so long as it is respectful and productive. But, it becomes damaging when one of the four horsemen become involved.

For more info on Gottman’s ideas, see: http://www.isoulseek.com/sitebranches/relationskills/articles/6signs.pdf

A few years back, when I was still trying to save my sinking marriage, I used to try to ponder how to not be so hurt by the actions that communicated to me insignificance. I pondered if my skin was just too thin. And, my ex was always sure to point out that I was thin skinned! Perhaps it's true. But, I also knew that a spot rubbed too much in a rough way becomes more sore and sensitive with time - much like a blister.

Anyway, I was wondering if the solution to our marital troubles might lie in my developing a thicker skin, a way to let the crap roll off my back like water off a duck. I pondered that a lot and tried to come up with various ways to do so.

In part, I was successful to not take the continual neglects so personally. That journey was a very personal one of reading several books and realizing that my self worth needed to be based on internal values rather than external reflections. A lot of what I came to understand was in part religious in nature, so I won't bore you all with that. In short, I looked for my intrinsic value from the inside, not from what others thought or did. That was a very valuable exercise, and a “gift” that I thank my ex for giving me. I might never have been pushed to develop that were it not for her.

As an extreme, we can all imagine a person that bases their self esteem on goods, or looks. The man that thinks having a big truck, or a sports car will make him more impressive. The woman that feels augmentation, or other beauty features are what make her of worth. I think it's something we all struggle with starting from middle school. It is all too easy to base our worth and value on external “things”.

My happiness increased when I did find within myself some greater sense of self-worth rather than basing it on my ex, my work, or what I wore. Certainly the shift away from my ex's behaviors was the largest help. I became far more stable and was usually in a much better mood (since I was not feeling 'devalued' as much).

But there was still something missing. I really found I simply could not be fully happy. The effects of my ex were reduced, but it was in part due to “ignoring”, and in part due to a form of self-affirmations. The messages I received from her frequently telling me I wasn't significant, wasn't important, wasn't worth the effort to pay attention to still hurt.

It dawned on me recently part of why that is. I don't think it is something we can just “tune out” unless we have other stronger sources giving us the opposite message (and if we do, watch out for the mental conflict that will cause and the potential to start hating our spouse because of it!!!) I was thinking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs:

Notice how the middle layer, right after some of the most basic needs of food, water, and shelter is the love/belonging needs?

No wonder so many of us struggle with self esteem issues!!! Based on Maslow's theory, there is no way to develop the esteem until the more basal need of love and friendship is being fulfilled!

During an Education Week presentation, Chris and Lili Anderson shared some wonderful messages about finding happiness and fulfillment in a challenging marriage. See Overcoming Challenges in Marriage: Dealing with Hurt and Anger IMO, that's a must watch for anyone trying to find happiness in the middle of a difficult marriage.

I have many other thoughts, but will have to save them for another day.

[crashdown]

Ryanh, I like your thoughts and I like your quotes, too. I'm sorry I was so defensive. Whenever someone questions my thinking, I feel like I have to go to battle just to be heard. I always feel like my thoughts have no validity or value and so I have to fight to prove that I'm not dumb. Of course, you know where that comes from. Little things like this remind me of how much damage has occurred and how much more healing I have yet to do.

You’re Not Important To Me. The various nuances of what specifically is communicated might be slightly different, but the end result is the demonstration, the proof that our spouse does not value us. And even if they do in reality value us, their actions speak louder than their words, and have the greater impact on us.

How true that is! That's what we all want, isn't it? To matter. To know we are important to someone, anyone. I guess that's the essence of this thread, the realization that to be of importance to someone else, we must first be of importance to ourselves. We cannot afford to think, "I don't matter" as that just digs us deeper into misery. We must think, "I DO matter" and then we will begin to make choices and engage in behaviors that build us up.

Those are very hard things to hear and believe when in the middle of great suffering. And yet, those are the very things that will help us the most. I guess we have to come to them in our own time and in our own way.

It dawned on me recently part of why that is. I don't think it is something we can just “tune out” unless we have other stronger sources giving us the opposite message (and if we do, watch out for the mental conflict that will cause and the potential to start hating our spouse because of it!!!)

I was thinking about this last night. It occurred to me how those changed expectations I mentioned can be damaging if they are taken to an extreme. An example would be substituting alcohol for the affection of a spouse. We have to be careful about what expectations we alter and how much we alter them. And we have to be choosy about what we focus on. Yet, with all that, I'm still keenly aware of what is missing. I'm not sure that will ever go away until the problem is completely resolved and that might take until the next life.

I'm afraid my last post made it sound like it was so simple and easy. In fact, it hasn't been remotely easy for me. I've fought, struggled, and drug myself every step of the way. I've resisted so much of this counsel for many, many years. What a waste! Lesson learned. Now I just have to figure out how to maintain this position.

How do we maintain this changed perspective, especially when the original problem hasn't been resolved?

Edited May 4, 2011 by crashdown