Yes, another PORN thread

[texasmom7]

Thank you for all the replies. I agree with what everyone is saying. I am starting counseling, and he has said "possibly" he will start going with me. On Mother's Day he didn't have to work. His phone was right there as he was taking a shower. I looked. A lot of porn videos. I didn't say anything right there at that moment because the kids were excited about him going to church (did I say before that he works every weekend, and is off occasionally?). He said something at church before church started, and I said "ya, I saw all the videos you saved on your phone." His mouth dropped. He told me I needed to stay off his phone. We left after church, and he didn't say anything to me unless I said something first, which I had to say something for the sake of the kids (you, know... like we are this one big happy family). I went right to my room, where I stayed for 4 hrs (happier note... our missionary son called and we all got to talk to him for almost 2 hours). Husband and older girls made dinner, and his parents, brother and sister-in-law all came over.

Anyway, he knew I was upset. Last night before bed he told me he had deleted the videos, and that he still loved me even though I was mad and had every right to be. He then said, "I am trying to get over this problem." And he told me he was sorry, again.

I am starting the counseling. I am hoping he starts too, but something has got to change. I can't live like this for another 20+ years. And there is so much that I didn't even put down. The more I read the original post, the more I remember, and I am thinking to myself... oh my gosh! I am a loser for allowing this to last this long. My self-esteem is so gone. I don't even know why anyone would ever want me again (if I was to become single)... I am in my 40s, with 7 kids and on anti-depressants so I can try to handle all this.

Edited May 10, 2011 by texasmom7

[skippy740]

texasmom7,

This can appear to be a step in the right direction. Only time will tell.

If you should decide to leave, please do your missionary son a favor and don't write him about it. Call his mission president and explain the situation to him. Then let him contact your missionary son. News like this shouldn't be in writing and the mission president should know if something this serious could distract the work being done in his area.

The fact that he (your husband) is embarrassed by what you found is a good sign (compared to "I'm gonna do this, so you might as well get used to it).

Part of the shame cycle is to retreat away from the person that they are embarrassed the most to be with. That's you. Give him time and understand that this is how men cope with being "called on the floor" with our weaknesses.

This is normal for this situation.

Remember that he has become a "master manipulator" to let his addiction get the best of him. Be aware that he has become good at this.

I wish you well in your counseling.

[g8trjasonb]

Thank you for all the replies. I agree with what everyone is saying. I am starting counseling, and he has said "possibly" he will start going with me. On Mother's Day he didn't have to work. His phone was right there as he was taking a shower. I looked. A lot of porn videos. I didn't say anything right there at that moment because the kids were excited about him going to church (did I say before that he works every weekend, and is off occasionally?). He said something at church before church started, and I said "ya, I saw all the videos you saved on your phone." His mouth dropped. He told me I needed to stay off his phone. We left after church, and he didn't say anything to me unless I said something first, which I had to say something for the sake of the kids (you, know... like we are this one big happy family). I went right to my room, where I stayed for 4 hrs (happier note... our missionary son called and we all got to talk to him for almost 2 hours). Husband and older girls made dinner, and his parents, brother and sister-in-law all came over.

Anyway, he knew I was upset. Last night before bed he told me he had deleted the videos, and that he still loved me even though I was mad and had every right to be. He then said, "I am trying to get over this problem." And he told me he was sorry, again.

I am starting the counseling. I am hoping he starts too, but something has got to change. I can't live like this for another 20+ years. And there is so much that I didn't even put down. The more I read the original post, the more I remember, and I am thinking to myself... oh my gosh! I am a loser for allowing this to last this long. My self-esteem is so gone. I don't even know why anyone would ever want me again (if I was to become single)... I am in my 40s, with 7 kids and on anti-depressants so I can try to handle all this.

You are NOT a loser. You are a victim of your husband's rotten actions. Do you think you're the only wife out there dealing with a husband addicted to pornography? If you are really seeking counseling, then you are obviously taking action. Just be mindful that you WILL need to take a hard stand with your husband, as painful as it will be. Just because he deleted the videos on his phone does not necessarily mean he is going to fix his problem. He obviously knows how to play you and unless he is seeking help, whether professional counseling or through books, I wouldn't buy it. Your husband is an addict and needs help. It took me 11 years to realize that I was addicted to pornography. Once I realized it, it took me another year to do something about it. But once I started doing something about it, an amazing thing happened. I quit looking at pornography. It can be done. But you will need to stay on your husband and make him understand that he must take real action, which is to address his addiction so that the both of you can be happy again.

[g8trjasonb]

I would disagree with this. What is true for some is not true for the majority. I highly doubt the majority of people who view pornography also view child pornography or are bound to start looking at it several years later. There are many people who view pornography and it doesn't affect their relationships but I also realize that many people find it makes them unhappy or feel it is wrong.

If you are raised that it is wrong, then yes, I think you could feel guilty. A lot of people do not feel guilty though. To me, it doesn't seem wrong or unnatural. It doesn't make me feel bad. I don't feel guilt from it. I don't view child pornography. I don't have a desire to cheat on my girl friend. This isn't just me either but I'm being honest.

I think it depends on the person. What's true for one person is not necessarily true for another. I've never personally been able to see anything wrong with pornography/masturbation and I know a lot men, women and even doctors who feel the same way regarding masturbation.

This is my opinion and I understand others have different ones. I respect that. I think people should do what they believe is right and work it out between their partners on what they feel the best course of action is regarding this subject. Whether they avoid it or not is entirely ok with me.

It is true from the stand point of a person that has an addiction to pornography. When you are addicted to heroin, what do you do the next time you take heroin? You take more than the last time because you NEED more to achieve the same level of high. Porn is no different for an addict. You are no longer as interested in viewing just "normal" sex and begin to seek out other forms of visual stimulation. I agree that the majority, as defined as the casual observer of porn, "probably" don't fit into this mold, but then again, how do we know that the casual observer is even the majority? Porn addiction is the dirty little secret that people can easily hide behind closed doors, while simultaneously living a seemingly normal life to the outside world.

From a worldly perspective, regarding whether or not porn should be in a relationship, well I agree, it should come down to the two people in the relationship. If it is not negatively impacting the relationship, then all power to you.

From a spiritual perspective, we were told by Jesus Christ in Matthew 5: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

[shdwlkr]

Texasmom7

I said it in my first post here YOU ARE NOT A LOSER did all of us say it loud enough. I understand your feelings and some things you haven't said but seem to be there too.

If anything you are one amazing woman to have put up with all you have and still seem to want to fight to save the marriage. I sure hope that guy is worth all you have, are and will put into that marriage.

I am glad to hear that you are in counseling it should help you a lot if you have a good counselor.

As to the comment about if you got divorced no one would want you, that is not a known fact and lets hope you don't have to find out Now me I am in my 60's and have two little kids in my life, now there is a almost guaranteed never would be wanted situation but you know my kids are worth being alone maybe for the rest of my life after watching what their mom is doing to those little guys. Life is funny in that we are told all the time we will never be given a challenge we can not handle but sometimes it gets real hard to see past the challenge. Hang in there and keep praying and listening and one day the answer will be there as to what you should do.

[Obolus]

This isn't just a porn addiction. This is a pattern of abusive behavior from one spouse to another, and thereby to the entire family. Lies, deceit, multiple extramarital contacts, refusal to attend counseling sessions, and most egregious: the expectation that texasmom7 should help conceal the behavior from the kids & also that she should just expect the behavior to continue. You cannot hurt your wife in these ways without eventually doing damage to all of the relationships in the household. It will eventually come out.

This man should, at the very least, happily attend marriage counseling and a sexaholics anonymous group (every stake has a chapter) to help him honor the covenant. After all the abuse, he has to show that he is willing to be a team player. Saying that you are deleting videos on your smart phone is also a shady conceit when you consider the fact that they can be downloaded again immediately and that the device is dominantly in his possession. To show that he wants her trust back, he should be willing to give up the phone with the media plan for something that wont enable his addiction. At least for a contract or two.

[estradling75]

Texasmom,

You husband has a long hard road ahead of him, and he is the only one that can choose to walk it. At best you have a supporting role in his recovery if he chooses to take that path. So I would like change pace a bit from how to protect yourself and encourage him, to focus more on you what you should be doing.

Given that you ultimately can not make your husbands choices for him what can you do? You can continue your efforts to be more Christ-like and drawing closer to the Lord. While it can sound trite and basic, prayer and scripture study are your allies now more then ever. In this case I would recommend studying how Christ can not tolerate the sin, but still love the sinner. This is something we all take advantage of from Christ, but very few can say we have mastered the ability to follow Christ example in this matter.

While no one wants to experience trials and hardships, it is an ideal time to turn to the Lord. And the Lord is in a much better position to advise you on courses of action and strengthen you in times of need then this whole forum combined.

[mnn727]

The problem with pornography, especially the pornography of today, is that it attacks the user in stages. One day your "just" looking at a Playboy magazine. Several years later, it's child pornography or seeking affairs.

Sorry, but that is completly insane. I don't know who in their right mind could possibly believe that. Edited May 10, 2011 by mnn727

[JudoMinja]

Sorry, but that completly insane. I don't know who in their right mind could possibly believe that.

I believe it because I've done it. It started with a curiousity about pornography and progressed to masturbation and pre-marital sex. It probably would have progressed even further, but I got broke out of an abusive relationship and turned away from it all. I still occassionally feel the temptation to look up porn and/or masturbate, but as soon as that temptation creeps in, I force it out. Sin is a slippery slope, and pornography has a most addictive pull. Some people are more resiliant, but others are not.

[mnn727]

I believe it because I've done it. It started with a curiousity about pornography and progressed to masturbation and pre-marital sex. It probably would have progressed even further, but I got broke out of an abusive relationship and turned away from it all. I still occassionally feel the temptation to look up porn and/or masturbate, but as soon as that temptation creeps in, I force it out. Sin is a slippery slope, and pornography has a most addictive pull. Some people are more resiliant, but others are not.

Did you then go on to view child porn and have affairs as the poster said that I was replying to?

[Backroads]

Sorry, but that is completly insane. I don't know who in their right mind could possibly believe that.

... what's crazy about that? It's a logical process, and it's pretty standard for porn addiction and results.

[mnn727]

... what's crazy about that? It's a logical process, and it's pretty standard for porn addiction and results.

Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

Saying that viewing adult porn then leads to viewing child porn is simply incorrect

Saying that viewing adult porn then leads to having an affair is simply incorrect

[estradling75]

I consider porn addiction much the same as I consider alcohol addiction. Some can do so casually, some think they can do so casually, until it slips. And others are in serious trouble.

Given that there are no spiritually redeeming values in either one. I think it is just safer to get out and stay out. It is a risk that had no spiritual upside to offset it

[Backroads]

Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about.

Saying that viewing adult porn then leads to viewing child porn is simply incorrect

Saying that viewing adult porn then leads to having an affair is simply incorrect

No one ever said as anything as concrete as what you just said.

If you are suggesting that one form of porn NEVER leads to another sexual issue, you are the one who is mistaken and a lot psychologists would disagree with you. It may not be a hardfast rule, but it happens. Quite a bit. Curiosity begets curiosity. When one thing isn't satisfied, the mind and body can progress onto other things.

[mnn727]

No one ever said as anything as concrete as what you just said.

It was said just a few posts back. Here is the quote:

The problem with pornography, especially the pornography of today, is that it attacks the user in stages. One day your "just" looking at a Playboy magazine. Several years later, it's child pornography or seeking affairs. Like any addiction, the thrill wears off and requires the user to seek new thrills and the user finds him or herself doing things he/she once thought they would never have the inclination to do.

And here is what YOU said about it

... what's crazy about that? It's a logical process, and it's pretty standard for porn addiction and results.

<shaking head>> it take's a very certain type of person to do child porn, to say that looking at porn leads to child porn is...totally unbelievable. don't know where you're getting this crazy idea from.

But then some people think that all gays are after children also.

Time for some common sense and to dump the scare tactics.

Edited May 10, 2011 by mnn727

[Backroads]

It was said just a few posts back. Here is the quote:

And here is what YOU said about it

<shaking head>> it take's a very certain type of person to do child porn, to say that looking at porn leads to child porn is...totally unbelievable. don't know where you're getting this crazy idea from.

But then some people think that all gays are after children also.

Time for some common sense and to dump the scare tactics.

I see where you are coming from. I guess the way that phrase was worded struck me as hyperbolic and generalizing, so I didn't think of taking it as an absolute. Words like "or" in the situation used tend to be hyperbolic, used merely as possible examples.

And I agree with getting rid of the scare tactics. But it is common for one kind of porn to lead to something else. When I spoke of the process to the generalized things mentioned, it is a fairly documented process.

By the way, belittling us without backing it up and instead just calling us crazy makes us less inclined to agree with you. Learn how to say something more intelligent and readable than "you're all crazy".

[mnn727]

By the way, belittling us without backing it up and instead just calling us crazy makes us less inclined to agree with you. Learn how to say something more intelligent and readable than "you're all crazy".

Don't beieve I called you crazy, I said your statement was crazy.

I won't attack you personally like you just did to me. We'll just let the statements speak for themselves and let the readers judge.

You think porn to child porn is a natural progression from looking at porn whereas I believe the jump to child porn only happens with a certain (sick) personality type and thhese are a very very small fraction of a percent of the population. Your average 20 or 30 year old guy does not get his kicks from child porn nor does looking at porn naturally and seemingly automatically lead one to jump to child porn or even to having an affair as you and the other poster are claiming.

Lots of people have affairs without ever looking at porn and lots of people look at porn and never have an affair. This should be very obvious to most people.

I am certainly NOT advocating porn, but to make a big deal out of it is silly in my opinion, especially when it leads to the point of people recommending a wife divorce her husband over it (as has been suggested on this very thread).

Like I said; long before I became LDS I read Playboy (when my wife gave me a gift subscription) and never once did I view (or want to view) child porn nor did I ever have an affair (or want to have one).

There is no natural progression -- except perhaps growing out of it as you age.

Edited May 10, 2011 by mnn727

[skippy740]

Sins can lead to other sins. That's why sinning can be often referred to as a slippery slope.

Some may fall into child pornography. Some may seek out affairs.

This is the same argument about tobacco. Tobacco is bad for you. Could it lead to marijuana usage? Sure. Could that lead to cocaine usage? Sure. Could that lead to heroine? Sure. Could that lead to crack? Sure.

But if you never touched tobacco in the first place, does any of that have any temptation for you? Probably not.

There are MANY people that are fine with just their tobacco and alcohol (legal substances). That doesn't mean they'll all go on to harder drugs. But it certainly is easier to think about harder drugs if you're already doing the legal drugs.

Make sense?

[skippy740]

I am certainly NOT advocating porn, but to make a big deal out of it is silly in my opinion, especially when it leads to the point of people recommending a wife divorce her husband over it (as has been suggested on this very thread).

No one said anything about divorce just because they look at porn.

We have all made suggestions based on the spouse's behavior. That behavior (as described) is NOT in keeping with a marriage covenant (whether civil or temple). Porn is the trigger for this behavior.

We have then made recommendations based on the spouse's behavior, and how it has affected the marriage, NOT necessarily the spouses sin.

I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, but I certainly hope it is now.

[Backroads]

Don't beieve I called you crazy, I said your statement was crazy.

I won't attack you personally like you just did to me. We'll just let the statements speak for themselves and let the readers judge.

You think porn to child porn is a natural progression from looking at porn whereas I believe the jump to child porn only happens with a certain (sick) personality type and thhese are a very very small fraction of a percent of the population. Your average 20 or 30 year old guy does not get his kicks from child porn nor does looking at porn naturally and seemingly automatically lead one to jump to child porn or even to having an affair as you and the other poster are claiming.

Lots of people have affairs without ever looking at porn and lots of people look at porn and never have an affair. This should be very obvious to most people.

I am certainly NOT advocating porn, but to make a big deal out of it is silly in my opinion, especially when it leads to the point of people recommending a wife divorce her husband over it (as has been suggested on this very thread).

Like I said; long before I became LDS I read Playboy (when my wife gave me a gift subscription) and never once did I view (or want to view) child porn nor did I ever have an affair (or want to have one).

There is no natural progression -- except perhaps growing out of it as you age.

Please go back and reread my posts. I never said it's common for porn to lead to kiddie porn.

YOu are also suggesting that it is okay to have affairs and lie about porn to a spouse if it's nothing to make a big deal about.

[skippy740]

Let's keep comments to statements that have been said, not to what anyone is implying.

This thread is getting a little out of hand here.

[g8trjasonb]

Sorry, but that is completly insane. I don't know who in their right mind could possibly believe that.

My example is deliberately showing two extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to porn addiction, but my point is that addiction is a progression, which is a concept that has flown completely over your head. Drug addicts typically don't start using heroin. They typically started drinking, moved to marijuana, then cocaine, etc. or some similar path. Alcoholics typically didn't start drinking everyday. They typically started drinking casually and socially, then began drinking more and more. Porn addicts typically didn't start with daily viewing of porn, they started with infrequent casual use, then got hooked. Is every user of porn going to be a pedophile, adulterer or homosexual or is every pedophile, adulterer or homosexual a porn addict? Of course, not, but that's not my point. My point is that pornography addiction has a progression just like any other addiction. Since this thread is about a man that is obviously an addict, I think it's only fitting to suggest that his addiction to pornography has contributed to his infidelity. Is he "just" sick? Well, of course he's sick! But there's no question in my mind that pornography addiction has contributed to his sickness and I think it's completely fair to suggest that he likely would not be seeking these encounters if he did not have a problem with porn. But then again, maybe he would. Either way, the porn addiction and infidelity obviously needs to be seriously addressed and attacked simultaneously before this marriage can get back on the right track.

Edited May 11, 2011 by g8trjasonb

[JudoMinja]

Did you then go on to view child porn and have affairs as the poster said that I was replying to?

To answer your question, no. However I did find myself caught up in some things I wovld consider just as terrible, the details of which I do not care to post here. Not everyone who views porn becomes an addict, but porn is destructive even to those not addicted. I've been around plenty of others who didn't see anything wrong with porn in and of itself, and I could see how much it had desensitized them, how much I was desensitized before I gave it up.

[Netgood]

Don't beieve I called you crazy, I said your statement was crazy.

I agree with you that they are just using scare tactics. A person who consumes alcohol is not automatically an addict, and it does not lead to alcoholism most the time. The alcoholic does not go for harder drugs. They quite like normal alcohol and just use more of that.

Now let me repeat for the slow people above. A person who consumes porn is not automatically an addict, and it does not lead to addiction all the time. The porn addict does not go searching for child porn. They quite like normal porn and just use more of that.

[mnn727]

Please go back and reread my posts. I never said it's common for porn to lead to kiddie porn.

It was claimed that its a natural progression (as I have shown in my quotes) from you and the other poster

YOu are also suggesting that it is okay to have affairs and lie about porn to a spouse if it's nothing to make a big deal about.

Please show where I said it was okay to have affairs and lie about porn.

Perhaps you should read only the words I actually post rather than your interpretation of what you think I am posting.