Bad Marriage....

[Guest Monica]

Hello Monica,

You said

First of all the bible warns us about marrying nonbelievers.

I hear what you are saying. I'm not trying to be contradictory (I promise) I just wonder what you think of this vs.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

Thanks,

Dr. T

Yes that verse is for if the nonbeliving husband want to remain and live with the believing spouce. However, if they are lewd or abandon the believer the believer isnt bound.

1Cr 7:10 And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband: 11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife. 12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.

[Dr T]

THanks Monica,

In rereading that verse, do you take it as saying "leave the unbeliever"? What of the santification of the believing spouse? What of Jesus' words on divorce? "...That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery:..." Mat 5:32. Does that play a role in this decision?

Thanks,

Dr. T

[CaptainTux]

At the end of the day we live in a broken world and are a broken people. The reasons Monica gave are biblically accurate.

I am of the controversial belief that because of our broken world and the fact that we do not live sinless, that there is not always a righteous choice. Sometimes we have to choose between the lessor of two evils.

I volunteer in a home for battered and abused women and children.

I see the haunted looks once a week. I see the bruises. I have lived it in my youth.

Maybe Jesus does not cover spousal abuse and maybe the abondonment clause is a legalistic twist on law that the pharisees did many years before any of us, but there comes a time you have to do what you have to do.

Domestic abuse protection from the local authorities in most cases is a joke.

If a woman is being beaten, my advice is remove yourself and the child away from the danger first and then do whatever it takes to stay away from the danger. If that means divorce and an order of protection from the father of your children....so be it.

Correct me on the Biblical correctness of the action, tell me about being yoked...I do not care. Once the hitting starts and the fear is in place...time to get out.

In the case of your young married friend...I am hearing about a lot of yelling and disagreements, but not beatings. Hers is a different case and I hope they can get past the differences and make an eternal go of it.

[prisonchaplain]

THanks Monica,

In rereading that verse, do you take it as saying "leave the unbeliever"? What of the santification of the believing spouse? What of Jesus' words on divorce? "...That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery:..." Mat 5:32. Does that play a role in this decision?

Thanks,

Dr. T

I won't speak for Monica, though on this issue, we seem in agreement. Just the opposite--we're told NOT to leave the unbelieving partner, but through our love and faithfulness, we might win them to the LORD's cause. On the other hand, if the unbelieving partner cannot accept having a Christian spouse, and wants to leave, then we're to let him/her go--for we are to live in peace.

The command not to leave on unbelieving spouse does not mitigate the command for a single believer not to marry an unbeliever. Rather, if you have a choice, choose a believer. If you've converted after marriage, you're to stay where you are.

[Dr T]

Agreed.

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

Our first few years of marriage were turbulant. yelling, angry words, etc. We both felt cheated because the other person didn't turn out to be perfect, after all, and niether of us was willing to make changes first. I mean that we were both sort of saying "you start doing xyz and if you do a good job of that, then I'll start doing abc." What we learned, slowly, is that it really makes no difference who goes first, nor even if both make adjustments; what matters is that someone - either one - take a step closer together. That just warms the heart of both parties and both feel a desire to work harder, grow together, get along.

Our whole marriage (so far - 16 years) has been sort of a see-saw. One of us pulls while the other one drags, then we flip flop. But we figure as long as we're making progress, it's good.

[Dr T]

Good progress is good! :)

[Nate]

It sounds like both of you have things to work on when speaking to each other. Just remember if you want to resolve a concern BOTH of you are required to participate. What I am saying is you can be trying as hard as you can but if he wont listen or work with you than you have some issues. This goes vise versa. There is a difference between the two of you fighting and the two of you resolving something in a fight.

[angelbaby]

My husband and I argue more than a little regularly. So i can completely sympathize with you. Most of our arguments revolve around the fact that our 2 & 3 year olds throw the odd (random) tantrum, or have times where they don't want to listen. This is normal behavior for a small child, but he says i encourage it and that that they'll end up deliquents when they're older because they do it now. Not rational, but that's how he is. Because i'm patient with them, he deems it as my not caring about it. Anyway, point being, some marrieds argue never, a little and often. It's not unique to you guys, don't feel like just because you have differences you can't get through it. there must be a bottom line reason for it. Don't rush out and get a divorce or annulment. Go and talk to your bishop, and talk to a marriage councellor. If you can find one that is a member, then that's even better. Work through it. Not just because you think it's a sin to divorce, but because you did get married, and you obviously loved each other just the tiniest bit at the very least, to go and marry in the temple. If your marriage is important to you both then really work at it. If he won't go along and see some one, then find out a night when he'll be home and have your bishop just "happen to stop by", and do it that way. If you know an LDS marriage councellor, do the same thing there. It won't get better if you both fight, and think the other doesn't care, and you let it go on and on. Also, don't let family interfere. it's their job to worry and love you & be concerned, but it's none of their business at the end of the day - only yours & your husband.

hope everything really works out. :)

[Adomini22]

My husband and I argue more than a little regularly. So i can completely sympathize with you. Most of our arguments revolve around the fact that our 2 & 3 year olds throw the odd (random) tantrum, or have times where they don't want to listen. This is normal behavior for a small child, but he says i encourage it and that that they'll end up deliquents when they're older because they do it now. Not rational, but that's how he is. Because i'm patient with them, he deems it as my not caring about it. Anyway, point being, some marrieds argue never, a little and often. It's not unique to you guys, don't feel like just because you have differences you can't get through it. there must be a bottom line reason for it. Don't rush out and get a divorce or annulment. Go and talk to your bishop, and talk to a marriage councellor. If you can find one that is a member, then that's even better. Work through it. Not just because you think it's a sin to divorce, but because you did get married, and you obviously loved each other just the tiniest bit at the very least, to go and marry in the temple. If your marriage is important to you both then really work at it. If he won't go along and see some one, then find out a night when he'll be home and have your bishop just "happen to stop by", and do it that way. If you know an LDS marriage councellor, do the same thing there. It won't get better if you both fight, and think the other doesn't care, and you let it go on and on. Also, don't let family interfere. it's their job to worry and love you & be concerned, but it's none of their business at the end of the day - only yours & your husband.

hope everything really works out. :)

well said. I certainly agree with you.

[Aphrodite]

i really feel for you. Having watched my own parents divorce at the time I was getting married myself, I know of the complications and difficulties that can arise. It doesnt make u a bad person, marriages dont always work. However, you havent been married long and theres time to sort it out. I assume u dont have kids yet. Whatever you do, make a decision one way or the other before you have children. People do get over divorce, but Im not sure if children ever do.

[Adomini22]

My parents got a divorce when I was 9, and I got over it when I was 18, which is when I had a fall out with my father. I havent spoken to him in 7 years. And honestly....... its one of the best things I have ever done.

I dont want to focus on divorce, especially not on this thread. But do all you can..... if it isnt enough....then get help and make a decision. Kids are affected by it for a long time. But sometimes its for the better, too.

[Aquayoshi]

What I have found is that many times Satan tells us that we need to do our half and our spouse half and our marriage will work!

This is incorrect! yes.. 50% and 50% will make a whole, but if you slack IN ANY DEGREE then the marriage is less then 100%!

The trick is... that both of you focus your attention 100% on eachother. That way even if you both fail by.. lets say 25% then your marriage is still looking at 150%.. see what I mean?

Also, Marriage is alot more about BEING the right one than FINDING. if you focus on self-improvement and being active and reading scriptures and saying couple prayers, you will have a better marriage.

I wish you luck - your marriage isnt over yet! You always try do what I like to do lol... if things start getting a little heated. just say... "can we start our conversation over.' one of you leave the room and come back, and pretend you never had the other conversation... you will find you forget them, its amazing.. really stupid but it works for me lol.

[Hemidakota]

This was release and if a few of the brethren do frequent this board in answering the common divorce advice seekers. :)

Church website: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Marriage & Divorce

Watch and share a new Mormon Messages video, "Marriage & Divorce," in which Elder Dallin H. Oaks urges couples to turn to the Lord for the strengthening, healing power of the Atonement.

To share this video, go to the YouTube page, click “Share” below the video, and then select how you would like to share it. (This video is also available in

on YouTube.)

__

[ViolinGirl]

What about just taking some time apart from each other? Is it possible for one of you to go live with a friend or another church family or move out on our own for a period of time? Maybe some time and space would both help you see the big picture clearer. Sometimes when we are in the trenches, it's hard to see everything we need to see when there is a decision that needs to be made. Right now, the only thing between you is anger and hate. Those strong emotions block your vision and prevent you from being able to see the good things in your marriage.

[Guest]

Been there, done that. My husband and I are polar opposites, so we have a lot to fight over. The problem, usually, if you really think about it, is that one or both expect the other to change and come to do it "their way". For example, I'm a super neat freak, my husband is a super slob. I grew up in a house where everything has a place - like, not only do we have to have spoons and forks that match, each spoon and fork is carved with our names on it so we use ONLY our own silverware. He grew up in a house where you'd be lucky to find a single spoon and fork that remotely resembles each other, and good luck finding it in the same drawer. So, we fight. A lot. World War level even. Because I get tired of having to find a spoon and fork and he gets tired of having to remember to put the spoon and fork back in its place. That's just the simplified version, of course. Anyway, you would think that the solution is simple - he needs to change, because my way is better, right? Nope, not that simple. This is a lifetime of my husband growing up the way he did. It just won't magically change. And then, add to that the way we fight - observe your fights and you will realize it goes almost the same way everytime. It's like a dance where you already know the dance steps and you just go through the same dance over and over even if you already know how it is going to end up.

It took my husband and I YEARS to learn how to overcome these hurdles. We're still polar opposites on a lot of things and we still fight over a lot of things but we have learned not to dance the same dance. We have learned that when the music starts to play and one makes the first step, we recognize the sign and try to change the steps or stop the music altogether. I have learned to let go of the little things - I mean, so what if it takes me an extra 3 minutes to find a spoon and fork? Is it REALLY worth fighting about? I decided, nope. Not worth the heartache. But then, I would do stuff like - have only one design of silverware in the house and give the rest away, then at least they would all match if I can just find it. My husband, over the years, has learned some habits that rubbed off from me - so now, after years of habit-forming, has learned to use the "silverware drawer". So it's not an issue anymore and looking back at how we used to fight over the stupid stuff, we have the luxury of laughing about it now.

But, this would not have been possible if either one of us (it only takes one) is considering giving up. Once the divorce option is put on the table, it is almost impossible to resolve anything, because the thought of "the grass being greener on the other side" is very very very tempting. Of course, I am looking at your original post where I didn't hear anything about somebody getting beat up or somebody having extra-marital affairs being present. My husband and I love each other very much - it might not seem like it sometimes because we get so wrapped up in our frustrations but I think of all the other guys out there and I just don't see anybody being better than my husband. Even if you can think of a guy that might be better, you may not realize that you will have different challenges with another person as well - and you'll probably just end up having fights again and then you'll have to divorce again. There's a reason why Liz Taylor has been married and divorced 8 times - the attitude of "the grass is greener yonder" makes you start to disrespect your current marriage.

P.S. The spoon and fork issue is just the simplest problem we've fought over. We've overcome LOTS of bigger stuff - stuff that seem almost impossible to get over - like finances.

Hope this helps.

Edited July 10, 2009 by anatess

[foreverafter]

In reference to Elder Oaks talk on Divorce, I have heard many people comment that what he said was that he thought people could divorce & abandon their spouse for any reason & still be temple worthy & not incur any consequences for divorcing. His opinion seems to be completely opposite what the Prophets have taught, that divorce is one of the worst of sins & is evil & adultery. Apostles do not declare new doctrine, so his talk is his opposing opinion to what the Prophets teach & the Church says to always go by the "Prophets" teachings, if Apostles differ.

Unfortunately, the sad thing is, when an Apostle seems to open the door wide for people to divorce without any consequences, it encourages most everyone to choose the easier road of divorce when marriage eventually gets hard & sadly only a rare person who has the spirit is going to choose to keep their sacred covenants & the higher road of pain, sacrifice & long-suffering to stay in a difficult marriage. Without immediate consequences for divorce, the divorce rate will almost surely sky rocket even more now, while children pay the price for it all & it brings even faster upon people the destructions & holocausts foretold by Prophets for the disintegration of their families.

Edited July 10, 2009 by foreverafter

[TheJosmo]

At this point it is too soon to say if you need a divorce. As posted before, talk to your bishop, talk to a family councilor. There is possibility you might need a divorce if things get really really out of hand, but if you're both willing to forgive and make adjustments to tolerate, coexist, and finally flourish, you will have a great thing.

Divorces happen, and are sometimes necessary. They are started with innocent mistakes in choosing a partner. If you have hope that your husband is a good man who can honor, support, and love you, than give your marriage a chance.

[Solsalia]

In my struggles with my marriage I have thought about the grass on the other side. Once the word Divorce came up your thoughts lean towards that more but then reality smacks me and I realize what kind of problems will I face with another man? Will he be able to do what my husband can do? He can fix most anything he puts his mind and hands too. Very mechanical. If I want something changed or done in the house he can most likely do it. Very handy. If I get upset and want to fight he won't do it. He has never called me a name. However sometimes he doesn't come home till 2am after drinking at a friends house or the bar. He smokes. He doesn't believe in the church. I take my kids to church alone.

When I get upset I have to sit back and be the bigger person to make it right. After I have my blow up I calm down and I talk to him and turn the other cheek. I apologize for loosing my temper and explain why I was hurt or upset. When I try really hard to be kind and make him feel loved we do a lot better and I'm actually happier. You have o look inside and think what would Jesus have me do? Remember in primary.

This marriage is between you and your husband and God. Only the 3 of you can decide what is best. Taking a quote out of the bible does not heed to the whole bible. My husband now does not eat pork because of a verse... yet when you read the whole Bible and study we realize that Jesus has fulfilled the Moses law but he has not seen that or chooses not too. Yet he still smokes and drinks... very confusing but that is what he believes.

Remember even two people of the same religion believe different things. You were brought up by two complete seperate families. Now you have made a new one. I know he needs to work with you also to make it work. Make sure your not being to stubborn to not work with him too.

I hope you may be able to find common ground again. Do you still date each other? That is very important. Just because you are married doesn't mean that the dating has stopped. Do the things you did that made you want to marry him. He may see it. Do the small things and swallow the pride of still being mad. It's not worth it. It's hard but you will feel better after.

[Solsalia]

BTW, how are things going now? I hope all is well.

[rmorrow]

I recently heard of a series of books they are called the 5 languages of love... i dont remember who they are by but i was told about them and i told a few people about them and they have spread like wild fire! they help you to realize what you need to feel loved. and what your partner needs to feel loved. i know they carry them at barnes and nobles. i would recommend trying them. maybe you guys are just speaking the wrong "language" to eachother. you feel in love for a reason, try to remember those. and also see your bishop. And if you do seek a counsler... try to find one who is of the same religion. they will understand parts of your marrage others wont. i hope that helps. and good luck stay strong! never give up praying.

[Honor]

I recently heard of a series of books they are called the 5 languages of love... i dont remember who they are by but i was told about them and i told a few people about them and they have spread like wild fire! they help you to realize what you need to feel loved. and what your partner needs to feel loved. i know they carry them at barnes and nobles. i would recommend trying them. maybe you guys are just speaking the wrong "language" to eachother. you feel in love for a reason, try to remember those. and also see your bishop. And if you do seek a counsler... try to find one who is of the same religion. they will understand parts of your marrage others wont. i hope that helps. and good luck stay strong! never give up praying.

Dr. Gary Chapman

The Five Love Languages

[rmorrow]

YES! thats him thanks so much!

[lattelady]

This post is actually for Benraines (did I spell that right?)--who was moderating on this thread. I don't know if you guys get thanked very much for doing your job, but I wanted to encourage you. As the daughter of a referee/umpire (guys who have tough jobs using their best judgement to make a call), I used to get defensive for my dad when someone would challenge his calls. He was REALLY good at what he did. I know not everyone sees every ball or strike the same. I just thought I should say thanks for moderating well. Thanks for sticking up for people when someone's coming down hard on them (even if they didn't mean too). Thanks for being willing to say, "That's enough, guys!" and use your position for good. :) Justice...it's a good thing. Referees and umpires love their jobs and get to a place where they don't even hear the heckling anymore--they're just doin' their job and making the best call they can. That's what I saw you doing. Thanks.

Edited September 13, 2009 by lattelady

[lattelady]

Solsalia,

I really believe that if more people (including myself) would do what you just did in your post, we'd be more encouraged instead of discouraged in our marriages. Instead of choosing to focus on what is bad in the marriage, you found something to praise your husband for--the fact that he is very mechanical and can fix ANYTHING for you that you ask him to fix. I bet if you praised him (genuinely) every time he fixed something for you around the house or completed a project you'd asked him to do--told him how much you appreciate his work and LOVE the fact that YOUR hubby can fix anything, that you're so glad he's YOUR man, his heart would swell and he would feel so respected and admired. Even if right now, that's the one thing you can think of--it's awesome that you would keep your focus ON THAT positive thing. Any one of us can find SOMETHING negative about our spouse to fixate on. It can become unhealthy and create fighting and disappointment. You're choosing a better way. Thanks for the encouraging thought.