Suicide

[dsholly59]

My brother took his own life last Saturday. He and I are both members of the church. He had severe mental illness and my bishop showed me where it says that the Lord will look at this fact. Some people in my ward are telling me that feeing anger and grief right now is wrong because my brother is out of his misery. Others tell me that anger and sadness are normal and acceptable. Who is right? I do feel happy for my brother but I am also angry at him and I keep finding myself crying and then feeling guilty about crying. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

diane

[Guest]

My brother took his own life last Saturday. He and I are both members of the church. He had severe mental illness and my bishop showed me where it says that the Lord will look at this fact. Some people in my ward are telling me that feeing anger and grief right now is wrong because my brother is out of his misery. Others tell me that anger and sadness are normal and acceptable. Who is right? I do feel happy for my brother but I am also angry at him and I keep finding myself crying and then feeling guilty about crying. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

diane

So sorry to hear this! My prayers are with you.

To answer your question: Nobody is right. And nobody is wrong.

You feel what you feel. Allow yourself to process the feeling and transform it into something productive. For example, if you feel angry, that's fine. Just make sure you don't direct it at God or something like it. Allow yourself to feel angry then appeal to the Holy Ghost to help you understand so you won't be angry anymore.

Crying is very healthy. You don't want to bottle grief. In the Philippines, crying is considered to be so healthy that sometimes a family would hire people to cry at the wake so that those who are bottling up their grief can feel comfortable about crying. But, at the same time, don't wallow in grief. Allow yourself to cry it out then appeal to the Holy Ghost to help you understand so you won't be grievous anymore.

Don't worry about your brother. He's in God's hands now.

Hope this helps.

[FunkyTown]

It's okay to feel angry.

A man you loved took his own life, leaving you and everybody else to pick up the pieces. Part of the natural grieving process at something like that is to feel angry.

You don't need to justify how you feel to anyone else.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

[RipplecutBuddha]

The process of mourning is different for everyone, but they do follow some similar steps:

1. Shock-'I can't believe it'

2. Anger-'This is not fair'

3. Bargaining-'What can I do to undo this loss'

4. Sorrow-'I really miss this person'

5. Acceptance-'It really happened'

I think these are the correct major steps each of us go through. We all go through them in different order, and to varying degrees, but they are a normal process. I would advise constant prayer when emotions get the better of you, whatever they are. I would also advise sharing your feelings with your family and friends you feel close enough to in this difficult time.

Years ago, my father learned he had lost two of his brothers within hours of each other one day. He was very quiet and somber for several days. One day he was washing some dishes and he stopped. I asked him if he was okay. He turned to me with tears in his eyes and hugged me tight. All he said was "I love you." While it wasn't the first time he'd said that to any of us kids, it was as deeply heartfelt as I can recall my father being.

He was never given to strong emotional outbursts beyond laughter. I can't recall him yelling at any of us in anger, much less striking us in anger. In that moment I could feel how hurt my father was, but I could also feel how grateful he was for the covenant blessings he had that promised him he was only briefly separated from them for now.

Our prayers are with you. May God show you how much he loves you and all your family, and may you also find peace in your heart through the atoning sacrifice and gospel of Jesus Christ. He felt the pain you feel, and he will bear your burden for you. God be with you always.

[Guest DeborahC]

I'm so sorry to hear of your great loss. You are in my prayers.

Please don't let anyone rob you of your grieving process. It is perfectly natural to feel angry. It is a natural part of loss.

Do a Google Search on "Stages of Grief" and you will find many good articles. Here it is in a nutshell:

Five Stages Of Grief

1. Denial and Isolation.

At first, we tend to deny the loss has taken place, and may withdraw from our usual social contacts. This stage may last a few moments, or longer.

2. Anger.

The grieving person may then be furious at the person who inflicted the hurt (even if she's dead), or at the world, for letting it happen. He may be angry with himself for letting the event take place, even if, realistically, nothing could have stopped it.

3. Bargaining.

Now the grieving person may make bargains with God, asking, "If I do this, will you take away the loss?"

4. Depression.

The person feels numb, although anger and sadness may remain underneath.

5. Acceptance.

This is when the anger, sadness and mourning have tapered off. The person simply accepts the reality of the loss.

I highly recommend a little book called, "How to Survive the Loss of a Love."

It will explain exactly how you are feeling.

It is short and easy to read and can bring you comfort, along with prayer and your scriptures.

God bless you during this difficult time.

[Guest DeborahC]

Looks like RipplecutBuddha and I were having the same thoughts and posting at the same time. lol

[RipplecutBuddha]

great minds think alike.....I wonder what our excuse is...

Perhaps the Spirit is guiding us on this one.

[Wingnut]

It's too bad that people are telling that you what you are feeling is wrong. No one has a right to dictate your feelings to you. If you feel angry and sad, then let yourself. When you don't want to feel that way anymore, you'll work yourself out of it.

[applepansy]

The five steps in the grief cycle are important to identify. With suicide I think adding a sixth is important: Forgiveness.

It hurts bad enough when we lose a loved one to death from illness, age or crime. But when its at their own hand it adds another level to the grief. Don't pay too much attention to those around you. They mean well but unless they've experienced suicide on a personal level its hard to understand the added level of grief.

Pray. Our Savior knows what you are feeling. The atonement is more than just about repentance. It also helps heal those who are hurting. Let it work for you too.

[Jennarator]

I agree with the others. Let you feeling be what they are. If you try to hold them back, it will get worse. You are going through a difficult time, there is no reason to hide this. If you need someone to talk to, find someone you can trust wether that be a friend, family member or councelor.

Take the time that you need to feel these feeling, there is no set time for that. Some people take long thatn others. They are your feelings, no one else gets to control them or feel them. Ignor those that try to somehow make you feel bad about it.

[Vort]

My brother took his own life last Saturday. He and I are both members of the church. He had severe mental illness and my bishop showed me where it says that the Lord will look at this fact. Some people in my ward are telling me that feeing anger and grief right now is wrong because my brother is out of his misery. Others tell me that anger and sadness are normal and acceptable. Who is right? I do feel happy for my brother but I am also angry at him and I keep finding myself crying and then feeling guilty about crying. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Diane, I'm so sorry to hear this. You have my sincere condolences.

You may feel however you feel. You are not wrong to feel angry, or sad, or whatever. (I can only imagine how angry and sad I would feel in your position.) You are going through a terrible ordeal right now. You will come out the other end, eventually, in the weeks or months ahead. For now, feel however you feel. Come to terms with things. If you think you should feel happier or more relieved or whatever, then you might explore that. But don't worry about whether other people think you should or should not feel some certain way.

Btw, I strongly suspect that those who are telling you that you "should" feel happy and "shouldn't" feel angry are simply making a clumsy attempt to comfort you. I doubt they're actually trying to criticize how you feel. Tragic circumstances like this sometimes leave even decent, well-meaning people at a loss. So if you can avoid taking offense at their ham-fisted attempts at making you feel better, I think you'll be better off in the long run.

[Blackmarch]

My brother took his own life last Saturday. He and I are both members of the church. He had severe mental illness and my bishop showed me where it says that the Lord will look at this fact. Some people in my ward are telling me that feeing anger and grief right now is wrong because my brother is out of his misery. Others tell me that anger and sadness are normal and acceptable. Who is right? I do feel happy for my brother but I am also angry at him and I keep finding myself crying and then feeling guilty about crying. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

diane

:*(

SO very sad to hear this

if one did not feel anger or sadness to some extent I'd have their head examined. Thats normal reaction.

the trick is not to dwell on it, and accept it and come to terms with it... and sometimes that requires a bit of time.

[classylady]

Diane, I am so sorry. My heart goes out to you and your family. Some people who haven't experienced the loss of a loved one often don't understand the grief that is experienced, and might say things that simply aren't helpful at all.

As stated in some of the other posts, anger is one of the stages of grief. When my 19 year old daughter died in a car accident, I was devastated, and I definitely had feelings of anger. I was angry at her for not having her seat belt on. That might have saved her life. I was angry at God for not stepping in and preventing the accident--He could have. It's been 8 years now, and I have to admit I'm not totally over the grief. Maybe I won't ever be. The anger has faded, but I still get a twinge of it every now and then.

This I do know. Your brother is a beloved son of our Father in Heaven. And you are a beloved daughter. The Father knows your grief and sorrow. He knew of your brother's trials and sorrows. All will be well. Bless you.

[JudoMinja]

You are coming to terms with the fact that your brother is dead. Death is very trying for anyone in touch with their emotions, and it is perfectly natural for you to go through all sorts of turbulence- crying, anger, depression, withdrawal, outbursts... This is just part of the grieving process.

It does a body slam to your faith, as you must re-evaluate what you really believe. Is your brother just gone, or will you see him again? Is he happy now, or still suffering? Was the act of suicide selfish, an escape, or a release? How will YOUR life be changed now that he is gone? What experiences might you have had that can never happen now? Did he somehow betray you by leaving you here? Nothing will be quite the same anymore. Your sense of reality has been shattered. This is a permanant change which will give you pause about the fragility of your own life and those around you.

Adjusting to such change takes time. There is now a hole in your soul that may never heal completely. Some heal quickly and take these things in stride, others never heal. Either way, everyone goes through the grieving process and must find ways to cope with the loss. There is nothing wrong about the way you feel. You are just determining your new bearings in a changing sea. When you find your center, all will be well. Different, but well.

[ferretrunner]

My brother took his own life last Saturday. He and I are both members of the church. He had severe mental illness and my bishop showed me where it says that the Lord will look at this fact. Some people in my ward are telling me that feeing anger and grief right now is wrong because my brother is out of his misery. Others tell me that anger and sadness are normal and acceptable. Who is right? I do feel happy for my brother but I am also angry at him and I keep finding myself crying and then feeling guilty about crying. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

diane

Diane,

I am so sorry for the loss of your brother. It is so hard to understand why someone would take his own life. IMO, your brother is ok. I think a loving, caring Father understands the depression, hopelessness, helplessness that leads to suicide. Your brother had an illness- in the brain, both physical illness (depression causes changes in brain structure as well as the imbalance of neurotranmitters) and mental illness. The thought process is skewed by depression.

Anger and sadness are both absolutely normal and part of the grieving process. Neither change the fact that you love and miss your brother. It is part of your healing and grieving process. Don't feel guilty for feeling sad. You miss him. That's ok. You're probably also ticked at him for taking his own life- that's ok too. That doesn't change your love for him.

Take care of yourself.

[Guest saintish]

There is a great book by an LDS mother who's son took his own life, you should really look into it if you geth the chance.

Searching for the New Normal

By: Rexanne Williams

Searching for the New Normal - Rexanne Williams - Adobe PDF eBook - Download Now!

[HEthePrimate]

My brother took his own life last Saturday. He and I are both members of the church. He had severe mental illness and my bishop showed me where it says that the Lord will look at this fact. Some people in my ward are telling me that feeling anger and grief right now is wrong because my brother is out of his misery. Others tell me that anger and sadness are normal and acceptable. Who is right? I do feel happy for my brother but I am also angry at him and I keep finding myself crying and then feeling guilty about crying. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

diane

(((diane))),

There is no one "right" way to feel right now--don't listen to those who would tell you otherwise. I am very glad your bishop knows about mental illness and was sensible enough to talk to you about it and not condemn your brother.

Though you do not have to feel angry with your brother, neither is there anything wrong with it. My wife killed herself five years ago. Most of the time I am not angry with her--she suffered from a painful physical illness, and also from depression, both of which made her life miserable, and I don't blame her for being unable to deal with it. In fact, had I been in her place, I might not have lasted as long as she did. I am glad she no longer has to suffer. All the same, there are times when I do get angry with her. It hurts to lose a loved one, really hurts, especially when it's suicide. Of course you're going to feel grief. Anybody who tells you it's wrong to feel grief or anger lacks basic human empathy and should take a hike.

I suggest that you either talk with a grief counselor or join a support group, or both. There are support groups for people who have lost a loved one practically everywhere, and many support groups specifically for survivors of suicide (people who have lost a loved one to suicide).

I am really sorry about what you're going through, and about what your brother went through. If you would like to talk, feel free to PM me.

HEP

[Mute]

My brother took his own life last Saturday. He and I are both members of the church. He had severe mental illness and my bishop showed me where it says that the Lord will look at this fact. Some people in my ward are telling me that feeing anger and grief right now is wrong because my brother is out of his misery. Others tell me that anger and sadness are normal and acceptable. Who is right? I do feel happy for my brother but I am also angry at him and I keep finding myself crying and then feeling guilty about crying. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

diane

I've lost two siblings but not because of suicide. In my personal opinion, it is completely normal to feel sad, angry etc. because of the loss of a loved one. You shouldn't repress your feelings simply because you are told your loved one is no longer in pain or because you believe they are in a better place. Venting is part of the healing process. It's not bad to vent in a healthy way. So long as you're not taking your anger out on others, I wouldn't find it bad. You need to do what helps you. If you feel something, don't repress it.

I held it in when my sister died. That was not a good idea. Sadly, over time you do stop thinking about them so much. They're not on your mind as much like they may have been when living.

[Mute]

I too have often heard that some people, according to the lds faith, are not or may not be held accountable to their actions of suicide. This was very confusing to me. I felt suicidal for a long period of time and I was strongly considering it. It's true, I wasn't thinking all that rationally. It was like I couldn't see anything positive in life and there was a dark cloud over everything I looked at. There are an enormous amount of factors for why that could have been though. I don't know all of them. But lets say I did kill myself and I wasn't held accountable for killing myself because of my way of thinking. Is that reasoning of not being held accountable ever applied to people who commit murder towards others or only to themselves?

It's a very deep subject for me. I'm probably one of the very few people who honestly still don't find suicide wrong but I wouldn't want to do it. I have positive things to live for. I mean the very thought of depression in general I find very confusing. It's something I should really look into more and seek to understand. To me, it felt like people were telling me I wasn't unhappy for the reasons I believed I was. It felt like they were telling me I was unhappy for things I had no control over. I'm not doubting that this may be true for some things. Obviously things can affect the way we feel and think. Going without food, lack of sleep, the weather outside etc. etc. etc. can all affect the way we think and feel. I guess what I'm getting at is to me it would defeat the entire purpose of a test to see what type of person someone would be if they are not even able to rationally control their actions. I mean if they're not held responsible for them, what is the point? If a God is real, I could not see reasoning in that being true. Honestly, that is something that made me doubt God was real. I kind of found it an over whelming subject but it is something I plan to learn more about.

[ferretrunner]

Mute,

Depression is hard to understand. It's not logical. There are several factors that can contribute to a true, clinical depression: imbalance of neurotransmitters, life events, genetics, pain, etc. There can also be physical issues like vitamin D deficiency, anemia, thyroid problems that can mimic or even cause depression. I always encourage anyone with depression symptoms to get a complete physical, including specialized blood tests for the vitamins and thyroid. Sometimes getting the physical under control will take care of the depression.

Depression impacts how we think, act, and our emotions. I explain it like a triangle. At one point of the triangle- emotions: point 2- thoughts; point 3- behaviors/ actions. Ever notice how you think impacts how your emotions and behavior? And behavior impacts thoughts and feelings. All of them interact.

For example: I feel sad (emotion). I avoid friends (behavior). My thought might be "They don't care."

My behavior may lead me to feeling sadder... My thought might lead me to avoid friends more. So, it gets trapped. Make sense?

So, if you change one area, usually the others follow. In the above example, I might target my behavior. I call a friend and talk. I feel less sad and lonely. I have evidence against my incorrect thought. Or I might challenge the thought as well.

The best way to understand and manage depression is to work with an experienced therapist. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is very effective. It will help you identify what thoughts are being skewed by the depression and what behaviors might need to change. Depression is a thought monster. It skews how people view the world to the negative. It's not exactly a concious choice. Most people aren't even aware of their thoughts. Also, work with a doctor or psychiatrist who knows antidepressants. Often, a short course of antidepressant therapy will help to rebalance the neurotransmitters. Or, you might need to be on them long term.

Hang in there. Don't give up on getting better from depression. It can happen. But, you have to do the work.

[mnn727]

So sorry to hear this! My prayers are with you.

To answer your question: Nobody is right. And nobody is wrong.

You feel what you feel. Allow yourself to process the feeling and transform it into something productive. For example, if you feel angry, that's fine. Just make sure you don't direct it at God or something like it. Allow yourself to feel angry then appeal to the Holy Ghost to help you understand so you won't be angry anymore.

Crying is very healthy. You don't want to bottle grief. In the Philippines, crying is considered to be so healthy that sometimes a family would hire people to cry at the wake so that those who are bottling up their grief can feel comfortable about crying. But, at the same time, don't wallow in grief. Allow yourself to cry it out then appeal to the Holy Ghost to help you understand so you won't be grievous anymore.

Don't worry about your brother. He's in God's hands now.

Hope this helps.

Post of the week -- Anatess is 100% right, you feel what you feel, there's no right or wrong way to grieve.

I am sorry for your loss.

[kayne]

ive never had anyone i know kill themselves. but ive been about 30 minutes away from doing it myself so i can certainly relate. i really had it thought out in my head. strangely i was talked out of it in a random AOL chat room(pick a fight if i remeber correctly). you certainly have to enter a dark place to get to that point. so i can really sympathize with the person that did it. they entered a dark hole and i assure you nothing but The Devil was there dragging that poor soul to hell in full force. it really is a hard thing to comprehend the agonizing pain unless youve been there. ive got a spotty memory sometimes but i can remeber that crystal clear. the only reason i was on AOL was because at the time AOL was essentially my life and what little life i had revovled around that so i was just taking one last look around the world. even had the knife in my hand i was going to use.

im fairly certain some Angel of Lord found me. because i couldnt find a trace of the screen name ever existed(im good with computers too). and that person really had no interest in talking to anyone but me. and everyone else in that chatroom stopped talking for like 30 minutes. and that person just seemed to know something was horribly horribly wrong. and wanted me to commit and wouldnt leave until they were sure i meant it when i said i wasnt going to do anything. and then left. that person was there like they were waiting for me. said hello to me the moment i entered with no interest of talking to anyone but me and just knew i was hurting badly. knew something was wrong.

i have no reason why you brother had no such luck and im sorry for it. it could of been me 13 years ago. it really does strike a cord with me im kind of a little teary eyed thinking about it. suicide and depression in general do simply because ive been there. i was in that exact state of mind your brother was in i guess though it just wasnt my time. The Lord spared me then that night in a blasted aol chatroom(who says those are evil)

so i googled and found a nice talk by some GA that i think sums up all the positions on suicide. hope it is useful. sorry for the loss. hopefully your brother stands a chance i hope he does. being in that spot is rotten and you are anything but thinking clearly.

Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not - Ensign Oct. 1987

[abeChristianson]

I am very sorry for your loss and I will pray for you and your family. For the past IDK few months I have had those feelings of suicide. I have wanted to take my own life. I do understand where you are coming from and possibly how your brother felt when it happened. It is a horrible place to live when your thoughts are almost always suicidal. Continue to have faith in Heavenly Father and pray for the peace you need.

[Guest Chouchou]

I'm not sure why you feel guilty about crying exactly, but it is completely natural to feel the way you do. and perhaps you are crying for a number of reasons (sad you lost your brother, some anger, maybe even a little relief because he is in a better place now, etc)

I don't think your brother would be held accountable for his actions. you've already stated that he struggled with some pretty bad mental problems of some sort. I'm not sure what they were, but I remember in my psych classes, more than once we discussed the question "if someone commits suicide because of severe depression or schizophrenia, or some other mental illness, couldn't you say that the person was killed by their illness?" especially since the mind and way of thinking of that person can be so distorted in times like that.

I hope you find the peace you need *hugs*