Need some direction. Help?

[MissionaryCC]

So I have a few problems.

I have been inactive for a while now, but I started returning to church about six months ago, and have had some success in feeling the spirit. I read the book of mormon for the first time in my senior year of high school(over a year and half ago) and after completing it I had such a strong testimony of the truthfulness of the church, but beforehand I had struggled with pornography. I would say it was an addiction. And I really didn't want to disclose it to my bishop, and that kept me from going back to church.

Soon after I had finished the BoM, I got an LDS girlfriend. With some encouragement she got me to start going more regularly, and eventually I talked with my bishop about my past (I also informed my girlfriend of my struggles with porn). I had this girlfriend of over a year, and I decided to break up with her around a month ago. We had been struggling with the law of chastity, among other things, and I was sick of hurting myself and her every time we messed up. I was finding myself getting angry that she was strong enough to resist the temptation, while it was all I wanted. I felt like a monster, and she gave me an ultimatum: if we mess up again we have to break up. I figured it'd be better to end it now, with some dignity, and not to do it after messing up again. I was angry at first about it, because I really didn't want to stop, it was too hard for me. I told her I needed to figure out what I really wanted, and that the way we were headed now would only lead to an uglier and uglier end. I don't know if it was the right choice, or if we could have worked through it. She took it hard, and was mad I chose that instead of trying to continue working on it. We're still talking though, and getting back together is an option in the future, but I can't do it if it's going to be like how it was. So I'm trying to figure out what I want, and make sure I want to be chaste and not doing it just for her, because I was doing that when we tried and it made me resent her.

But there's the problem: I don't want to stop being unchaste I'm always rationalizing doing it, and at times it dominates my thoughts. And I don't feel bad about doing it (aside from the fact that it screwed up her future). I have tried to pray about it, but I don't feel like I've had any success. I don't really feel comfortable asking for forgiveness either because I don't feel bad for doing it. I know the consequences of abusing it, as I believe porn has warped my thoughts on it (made me think of things more sexually, made me want to experiment more, made it harder to avoid those feelings, and has the power to make things more physical than emotional, etc.) I just can't get over it when I'm in that state of mind, and I want to get back with her sooo bad, because I do love her, but I can't do it. If I could just gain the self control, I would do it in a heartbeat I think.

Now I'm on my own, and unfortunately pornography has crept back into my life. I slipped up a few times in a week, but I haven't viewed it in almost two weeks now, been completely chaste actually, and have confidence I can overcome it (I've disclosed all of this with my bishop btw, he told me to steer clear of it). But it just makes things all the worse if I ever do get back with her.

I just am so distraught about my situation now, and I just want things to click gospel wise. I feel like I've been trying, but it hasn't come. I don't feel the gospel anymore.

She is being really great about it, all things considered, and I want to be with her so bad. But I have to make sure I'm doing these things for myself.

She's also tried to get me to get my family to start going, they're all inactive. I know she's coming from a good place, but I always get mad because she seems too pushy about it. I would like my family to go more, and have told them I think it'd be good for them, but I don't like to be pushy because I want them to do it for themselves and not because I badgered them into going. So does anyone know of any good talks on the subject that I could, and her, could read that would help us go about it in a good way?

Sorry for the length :/ It was kinda a rant about things, but any and all advice is appreciated! Thanks everyone!

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

As you stated there are a couple different things going on here. Of course, they are inter-related, but I think it might be helpful to try and sort them out and deal with one at a time.

But there's the problem: I don't want to stop being unchaste I'm always rationalizing doing it, and at times it dominates my thoughts.

IMO, these are all signs of addiction.

I have tried to pray about it, but I don't feel like I've had any success. I don't really feel comfortable asking for forgiveness either because I don't feel bad for doing it. I know the consequences of abusing it, as I believe porn has warped my thoughts on it (made me think of things more sexually, made me want to experiment more, made it harder to avoid those feelings, and has the power to make things more physical than emotional, etc.

You say you don't want to stop, and yet what is thia post about then? You want to keep using pornography AND keep your girlfriend? Though it may seem like I'm being sarcastic here, I'm not. I think you really need to stop and think for a moment about what you want and why.

I believe you did the right thing in breaking up with her. For now you do NOT have common values and so there is no point in continuing the relationship except to allow you to satisfy your inappropriate desires. You may be reading this thinking, "no, you don't get it I really care about her." IF that is true, then you should also realize that I am right...the direction you two were going was hurting her. IF you really do care about her as a person, you will stay broken up for now.

I think the reason you don't "feel bad" or want to stop is because it is an addiction. And because it is an addiction you are going to need help to stop. It has been said that pornography addiction is very powerful. So I think the first thing you need to do is decide whether you really do want to stop or not...listen to your heart, not your addiction. If you do, then talk to your Bishop about getting counseling. If you can't afford it, the church can help. (I go to counseling, for a different reason. I have insurance that pays for it, but when I went to LDS Family Services briefly, they were very surprised that I had insurance. They said most of their clients are paid for by their wards. So don't be afraid to ask for this help.)

I found a great article here (but it should not be a substitute for counseling!):

The Road Back: Abandoning Pornography - Liahona Feb. 2005

I just can't get over it when I'm in that state of mind, and I want to get back with her sooo bad, because I do love her, but I can't do it. If I could just gain the self control, I would do it in a heartbeat I think.

I know it hurts and will hurt (I am no stranger to emotional pain) but BECAUSE you love her, you need to do what is best for her, and for now that means staying apart. That could change at some future point, of course.

You can't gain the self control on your own...this is an addiction. Get counseling. There is nothing wrong with needing help and seeking it. I go to therapy twice a week, and I speak openly about it because I think we should be ashamed for getting help when we need it. If you were diabetic would you be embarrassed to go to the doctor?

Now I'm on my own, and unfortunately pornography has crept back into my life. I slipped up a few times in a week, but I haven't viewed it in almost two weeks now, been completely chaste actually, and have confidence I can overcome it (I've disclosed all of this with my bishop btw, he told me to steer clear of it). But it just makes things all the worse if I ever do get back with her.

Again...you have an addiction...get professional help. You can't do it alone, and you don't' have to. And again, because you love her, stay away from her for now. It is for the best. I'm sorry. I know that is hard and painful, but for now that is the way things need to be.

I just am so distraught about my situation now, and I just want things to click gospel wise. I feel like I've been trying, but it hasn't come. I don't feel the gospel anymore.

You said earlier you didn't want to stop, but I think what you say here is what is in your heart. Listen to this part of yourself! It is going to be hard for things to 'click gospel wise'...in other words for you to feel the Spirit, when you are mired in sin. You don't feel the gospel anymore because the cloak of sin prevents it. It is an unfortunate Catch-22, isn't it?

Are you reading the scriptures, especially the Book of Mormon every day? Think of it this way...if you spend zero time with the scriptures, and 1 hr with porn, which one is going to have more influence on you? Because it is an addiction, there may be days you just can't stop yourself, but try to spend more time with the scriptures than the porn. If you slip and spend an hour with porn, spend two hours with your scriptures.

She's also tried to get me to get my family to start going, they're all inactive. I know she's coming from a good place, but I always get mad because she seems too pushy about it.

It is possible that she is being pushy, LDS people are like that sometimes (all people really). However, it could be that it is only your perspective. This reminds me of a joke...two men were talking and one says, "My wife has been nagging me all week for $20." The second man says, "Wow, what is she doing with all that money?" The first..."I don't know, I haven't given her any."

So was the wife nagging or was she repeating her request because it was unanswered? This is what I mean about perception.

I would like my family to go more, and have told them I think it'd be good for them, but I don't like to be pushy because I want them to do it for themselves

I favor the "less pushy" lead by example route personally. Work on your own life and when you feel happier and more at peace that will be the best "sales-pitch" or missionary tool you will have.

Does anyone know of any good talks on the subject that I could, and her, could read that would help us go about it in a good way?

I think you should lead by example. :)

Good luck, I know this is a painful time, and as I said, I am not stranger to emotional pain so you have my sympathy. I think the most important thing here is don't give up. Keep praying, keep reading your scriptures and keep trying. (I will do the same. :))

[LDSVALLEY]

Realize that porn is a drug, ,it alters your thoughts and actions, it destroys your spirit and your soul. Everything I have heard from people on both sides of this issue, (users and councilors) point to several things a person needs to do.

1) Seek professional assistance, talk to your Bishop the church has started several programs.

2) Most don't have the will power to stay away from an addiction on their own.

3) Remove excess, if it's the internet pull the plug, if it's movies destroy them etc. One man I heard of could control himself during the day but not the night so he'd lock the internet cable away after supper in a box with a picture of his family on the cover. When he was tempted he had to face his family in order to watch porn.

4) Simply stopping does not get the images out of your mind, you will crave them more and more, see pictures as you try to sleep and in your dreams, the longer you go the harder it can get.

5) Replace these images and time with other things, read scriptures, listen to gospel or other uplifting music, read or watch good books or movies.

6) Keep a chart or create a reward system, every day you stay the course give yourself a mark or a small reward, every week or month or year give yourself a bigger one. When you screw up chastise yourself and start over and pump yourself up for your first day back on track etc.

7)Understand it will take a long time to overcome this, 4 weeks to break a habit is typical, but even then you are not safe, you must guard against it for your life, it only takes once to be over the edge again.

It would be great if you could turn to the Lord to give you all you need to overcome this, you can't, there is no easy fix, you can turn to him to help you but you have to do the work. Also until you undergo the repentance and detox process it is hard to fully feel his power and spirit with you as he can not reside in unclean places including our own minds.

God is about freedom, freedom to choose and act as you wish with his help if you ask for it.

Satan is all about addictions and restrictions, telling you how to feel and act to serve his purpose.

If your parents found out your activity how would you feel?

Is that the way you want to feel?

Is that the way of God or Satan. We have both of them in each of us, we determine which is stronger depending on which one we follow by our actions and thoughts. But WE are the ones each DAY who determine who that is. BUT the more we follow one the further we get from the other. When we change we have to find our way back THEN go down the other path.

[MissionaryCC]

Thanks for the help you guys. I have thought for a long time I might be addicted, or have been addicted, or something. I didn't look at it for a long time while I was with her. In response to not wanting to stop/being with her. I want to stop, and be with her. I just don't feel like it's wrong, which is a sign of addiction like you pointed out as well. I am going to keep on trying though, and ask my bishop the next time I meet with him where to go for the next step, be it counseling or whatever. I am going to stay away from her for now. We're still going to text every now and then, but I think that's it. I'm going to try to lead by example, and try to convey it's the best course of action to her. Thanks for recommending that talk, I've read it before, but I think I'll take some time to go more in depth with it. I am currently reading the Old Testament right now, 10 minutes each night, but I'm thinking about starting the Book of Mormon again. I guess sometimes I get to thinking that because I haven't felt anything yet I probably won't, and that's when I'm most prone to give in. So I'm going to work on that too. LDSValley, reading that list I have felt a lot of what's listed, and I think I'm ready to do it!

Thanks for the advice, both of you! It helped me a lot. :)

[skippy740]

What calling do you have in the church?

If you aren't serving right now, it's going to make it that much harder for you to break this habit.

It's amazing what can happen to you when you have a calling and you can begin to put a much greater focus of your time, energy & resources into fulfilling that calling!

I've had similar struggles as you have had. A month ago, I was called to be the Assistant Webelos leader & Assistant Cubmaster! Now, I haven't been in scouting for over 20 years... and I'm having FUN! (Yes, there's a bunch of red tape with it.)

And I've just recently discovered that I've got about 5 boys that'll come into my den that aren't listed on the records of the church. Not only are they not baptized, but they're not even children of record.

So, what do you think MY focus will be? (Hint: I'm not focusing on myself and my weaknesses.) I'm going to be focusing on these families of these boys, teaching these boys the principles and foundation of scouting, and trying to build family bonds and service. I want those boys baptized!

It's far more rewarding to be serving others, instead of being alone.

If you don't have a calling, ask the Bishop for one. (He doesn't get many requests like that!) Hopefully, you can get a calling that has an impact on others through a kind of leadership or teaching role.

[MissionaryCC]

I don't have any callings right now. I didn't think you could receive a calling if you weren't living the standards, or in the process of repenting?

[skippy740]

If that was true, then I couldn't serve in the way that I'm serving now.

Some callings you can NOT serve without being worthy and living according to temple recommend standards - such as EQ Presidency, Ward Mission Leader, Young Men Quorum Advisors (especially for temple trips), primary teacher(?) and serving in the Bishopric. There could be issues in being a sunday school teacher too. I don't know.

And you won't know until you ask.

You may be asked to be a ward chorister? Usher? Librarian? Something in scouting (depending on age - you have to be a minimum of 21, I think)?

When you get that calling - no matter how small (or BIG?) you might think it is... do it to the maximum of your ability. Serve with all your heart, might, mind and strength in that calling. It will help you.

Maybe your Bishop will decide that you're not ready for a calling. Find ways to volunteer and contribute your time. Find excuses and reasons to help. You will be blessed for your service, even if not fully "called" to the work.

So be sure to ask! If anything, you'll "score points" for having a willing heart and mind to serve.

[prophetofdoom]

I think you need to take a chill pill and take a step back. I think you don't need a girlfriend right now and need to resolve your issues first. There is no sense in harming a good Sister of the church if you know you have a problem.

[labellavita]

I have to commend you for at least having the desire to do the right thing. I think that's pretty awesome.

I'll admit, I broke up with my boyfriend last week, not only because we were struggling with wanting to keep the law of chastity and were getting too close to messing up, but for other reasons as well. He is an amazing person, but the guilt just got to me too much, and it really hurt our relationship. He's a convert and doesn't struggle with pornography, but struggles with not being sexually active anymore. He blamed himself for all of our problems, but it really does go both ways. Did you listen to that talk by Elder Oaks last conference about desires? They shape who we are. Satan can never tempt you beyond your power to resist. That's something that i've learned throughout all of this. When my desire was to be weak willed and not listen to the spirit that was warning me, I gave in. You sound like you truly want to be with this girl. Then why not make the decision today to change? Go to an addiction group, overcome this thing. And then, don't look back. Alchohol and drug addicts do it all the time, so why can't you? I promise you, that as you take any and all media out of your life, and replace it with good and uplifting things, your thoughts will change. I've noticed it in my life since I got back from my mission. The more movies I watched with sexual content, the more my thoughts gravitated towards that. You may be thinking that's pretty prudish, but maybe you can make a little goal. Like for a month. No Television, movies, or websites with sexual content. Listen to a talk or read the scriptures or a good book during that time. Get out! It's summer. Go hiking or start a hobby with this amazing ex girlfriend. As you take the initiative with your own life, I promise you you'll start to see the changes.

[bytor2112]

If you don't have a calling, ask the Bishop for one. (He doesn't get many requests like that!) Hopefully, you can get a calling that has an impact on others through a kind of leadership or teaching role.

This young man will likely NOT receive a calling as he really hasn't repented of the more serious sins.....I am guessing that by not being chaste, he means fornication, etc. If this is the case, he shouldn't have a calling and by his own admission he doesn't want to stop being unchaste.

We all know the steps of repentance, but the truly critical part is a "mighty change of heart" and he seems very far from this. Repentance takes time and a serious and sincere desire to become the type of person that would never have committed those sins to begin with.

My advice to the poster is that unless and until he feels a real sense of "God-like sorrow" and really understands WHY those sins are so very serious...he will not change. As for pornography, the church has some great programs to help overcome the addiction, BUT, desire to truly change is essential.

As he is 18 years old he surely remembers the purposes of the Aaronic Priesthood...one of which is to "become converted to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and live it's teachings". Pray, run from temptation, wear your Bishops door out and have faith and hope in the certainty that we can all change and be forgiven.

[coruscate]

My advice to the poster is that unless and until he feels a real sense of "God-like sorrow" and really understands WHY those sins are so very serious...he will not change. As for pornography, the church has some great programs to help overcome the addiction, BUT, desire to truly change is essential.

I understand what you're saying here, and I agree with part of it. However, it comes across as a bit harsh. As someone who has been through similar trials, I sympathize with how the OP is feeling. He is conflicted. He doesn't want to change, but he wants to want to change. Does that make sense?

For people (like me) who strayed a long way, sometimes the desire to change is even difficult. Sin is fun. If it weren't, we wouldn't want to do it. And when things are at their worst, focusing on long-term happiness over short-term enjoyment can be overwhelming.

The fact that the OP took time to post here indicates he is willing to take that first step.

To the OP, I second what the original responses advised. Admit you can't do it alone. Get help. Get therapy from a counselor who knows your values. LDS Family Services can help with that, and the bishop can refer you. They can even help pay, if money is an issue.

Don't feel bad that you don't have a strong desire to give up your past behaviors yet. Keep working on it and that desire will come. The fact that you want to want to change is enough for the Lord to work with. He did with me.

“According to the Desire of [Our] Hearts†- Ensign Nov. 1996

[bytor2112]

Coruscate....my intent wasn't to be harsh and posting on this forum isn't really an indication that he is willing to take the first step. THE first step should begin on his knees and then with the Bishop. Reassurance from forum members may help lead him in the right direction.

Is sin fun? If we view sin as fun, particularly the sins we are guilty of, how do we overcome them? I know....sex is fun, BUT, it is meant for marriage. Sin should be repulsive and temptation to sin, to give in to our weaknesses may seem enticing, but as we grow spiritually, we should not consider sin fun. The Savior said:, "No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Clean hands AND a clean heart are required.

Our faith is not one of do's and don'ts...it is a faith of becoming or not becoming. If we view sin as fun we will not become. I know you likely meant more along the lines of, the acts that are so very serious and are grave sins also are pleasurable and part of our fallen natures to desire them. After all, man is carnal, sensual and devilish......

[coruscate]

posting on this forum isn't really an indication that he is willing to take the first step. THE first step should begin on his knees and then with the Bishop. Reassurance from forum members may help lead him in the right direction.

I can't say for sure what his posting indicates, as I don't know the OP personally. In his post he says he prayed about it and saw his bishop, so he has taken his first steps toward repentance. I should have been more clear--the step I was referencing was in the 12 step addiction treatment program, admitting he is powerless in the face of the addiction and needs help and direction.

Is sin fun? If we view sin as fun, particularly the sins we are guilty of, how do we overcome them? I know....sex is fun, BUT, it is meant for marriage. Sin should be repulsive and temptation to sin, to give in to our weaknesses may seem enticing, but as we grow spiritually, we should not consider sin fun. The Savior said:, "No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." Clean hands AND a clean heart are required.

That's...a very black and white way of looking at it :) Please don't take offense, but I'm guessing you've never had a problem with addiction or any serious sins (and I admire that!).

In order for sin to be repulsive to us, we need to in line with the Lord's commandments. Yet in order for us to be in line with the Lord's commandments, we need to be free of sin. For those of us who have succumbed to unrighteous urges, this line of reasoning creates an unsolvable problem.

By denying that sin can be fun, we give Satan a way into our life. We can be enticed into bad behaviors, which we rationalize as being okay because we are having a good time, and nothing that is enjoyable can be all bad. It's a slippery slope. We overcome sin by recognizing that the "fun" is short-term. It can't compete with long-term happiness and joy.

You are absolutely correct that, once we have overcome a temptation and made our way back to the paths of righteous, we will be able to look back on our past behavior with abhorrence. But it is a long, hard journey, and some of us are not there yet.

Our faith is not one of do's and don'ts...it is a faith of becoming or not becoming. If we view sin as fun we will not become. I know you likely meant more along the lines of, the acts that are so very serious and are grave sins also are pleasurable and part of our fallen natures to desire them. After all, man is carnal, sensual and devilish......

Something along those lines, yes. For me, it's been more about learning to place "fun" below "joy." It requires sacrifice and dedication, because short-term, immediate pleasure can seem more appealing than long-term denial with happiness at the end.

As an addict, I worry less about becoming and more about being. I'd love to get to the point you describe, where my only concern is improving on an already righteous life, but at the moment I'm content with being worthy, being faithful, and enduring to the end. Each day where I beat the addiction and don't slide backwards is a success.

[bytor2112]

That's...a very black and white way of looking at it Please don't take offense, but I'm guessing you've never had a problem with addiction or any serious sins (and I admire that!).

I wish....I am a recovering alcoholic. Clean and sober for just over six years and serious transgressions that are too numerous to recant. I am admittedly very black and white now...perhaps out of personal necessity.

[coruscate]

Then I admire you for getting your life straightened out. It's not easy. I know. I can't wait for the day I can say I've been clean for six years.