Perfect knowledge

[Seminarysnoozer]

What is the “perfect knowledge of all our …” mean? Does it mean that we will just have knowledge of what we personally did or does that include a knowledge of all the laws and principles surrounding our guilt, righteousness, enjoyment, etc.? “the righteous shall have a perfect knowledge…” sounds like we will know "all" at the point of our resurrection. In other words, does this “perfect knowledge” leave out anything? What is not included in “perfect knowledge”?

And, does this knowledge only include things surrounding our individual lives or all life? Think of a person who died in infancy, if isolated to that person's life only there would not be much added at the point of resurrection. If this is just knowledge surrounding one's own events in this world that seems to suggest a motivation to fill one's life with various experiences to eventually receive a perfect knowledge of those things. But that also suggests a disproportionate distribution of knowledge based on the privilege of experience in this life.

2 Nephi 9: 13-14

13O how great the plan of our God! For on the other hand, the paradise of God must deliver up the spirits of the righteous, and the grave deliver up the body of the righteous; and the spirit and the body is restored to itself again, and all men become incorruptible, and immortal, and they are living souls, having a perfect knowledge like unto us in the flesh, save it be that our knowledge shall be perfect.

14Wherefore, we shall have a perfect knowledge of all our guilt, and our uncleanness, and our nakedness; and the righteous shall have a perfect knowledge of their enjoyment, and their righteousness, being clothed with purity, yea, even with the robe of righteousness.

[rameumptom]

Study Alma 36, where Alma discusses his conversion. I think the "perfect knowledge of all our sins" and the guilt/pain occurs in such a circumstance for each of us, if we do not repent.

[skippy740]

A perfect knowledge must include a full understanding of the greatness and goodness of God. My understanding is that you cannot fully understand this until you have seen God face-to-face... and even then, it's just a fractional understanding in this life.

Then it's comparing the status of your own soul to the greatness of God, and knowing of the vast chasm of difference, growth and potential that we have to grow to become more like God.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Study Alma 36, where Alma discusses his conversion. I think the "perfect knowledge of all our sins" and the guilt/pain occurs in such a circumstance for each of us, if we do not repent.

I guess I look at 'conversion' knowledge as being heavily faith based, whereas this description of what happens with the resurrection sounds more like knowing because it is revealed at that moment. This is also 'perfect knowledge' of our righteousness and enjoyment not just guilt. My sense is that this is the moment faith is not needed, all is known. The question is what entails "all"? Is "all" just another word for perfect and so it doesn't really mean 'everything' or does "all" mean everything there is to know on the subject?

[Vort]

What is the “perfect knowledge of all our …” mean? Does it mean that we will just have knowledge of what we personally did or does that include a knowledge of all the laws and principles surrounding our guilt, righteousness, enjoyment, etc.? “the righteous shall have a perfect knowledge…” sounds like we will know "all" at the point of our resurrection. In other words, does this “perfect knowledge” leave out anything? What is not included in “perfect knowledge”?

I suspect you might be reading a bit more into this than the text intends. I believe that it means simply that we will be fully aware of our guilt or righteousness, unaffected by the rationalizations and conditional moralities that plague our mortal existence. I suspect that a full understanding of the principles underlying righteousness and evil may lie eons in our future development, long past the point of our physical resurrection and judgment.

Or, heck, maybe not, I don't know. That's my take on it.

[Seminarysnoozer]

A perfect knowledge must include a full understanding of the greatness and goodness of God. My understanding is that you cannot fully understand this until you have seen God face-to-face... and even then, it's just a fractional understanding in this life.

Then it's comparing the status of your own soul to the greatness of God, and knowing of the vast chasm of difference, growth and potential that we have to grow to become more like God.

So, are you saying that the "perfect knowledge" is just a perfect understanding of our status with God? It is not an understanding then of the actual sin or righteous act, it is like getting a report card without necessarily getting the answers to the final exam, just the score.

I guess I have always considered this a time where you get to see where the mistakes were and what the correct answers were, not just fully understanding how much you got wrong and right.

[Traveler]

A "perfect knowledge" means that we will understand clearly all the things we have done - everyone who was affected, exactly what the affect was and the result in eternity. We will also clearly understand the difference that the atonement of Christ made. In short we will understand ever thing we have done and how bad it really was, is and will be in eternity.

I do not think "Woops" will cover it.

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

I suspect you might be reading a bit more into this than the text intends. I believe that it means simply that we will be fully aware of our guilt or righteousness, unaffected by the rationalizations and conditional moralities that plague our mortal existence. I suspect that a full understanding of the principles underlying righteousness and evil may lie eons in our future development, long past the point of our physical resurrection and judgment.

Or, heck, maybe not, I don't know. That's my take on it.

Thanks. This is exactly what I was wondering about. I can see this like getting the report card at the end of a course where all you get is the information regarding what you got right and what was marked wrong but the correct answers aren't yet given. Here, perfect knowledge is just knowing the magnitude of what was done right or wrong, not the why.

The other interpretation would be one of fully understanding the laws and principles of every action to know reasons behind why something was right or wrong, a perfect knowledge. Here, perfect knowledge includes the why it was good or bad.

I still kind of lean towards the later interpretation as I don't know if we will really understand the significance of any given sin or righteousness without fully understanding the laws and principles surrounding it.

[Seminarysnoozer]

A "perfect knowledge" means that we will understand clearly all the things we have done - everyone who was affected, exactly what the affect was and the result in eternity. We will also clearly understand the difference that the atonement of Christ made. In short we will understand ever thing we have done and how bad it really was, is and will be in eternity.

I do not think "Woops" will cover it.

The Traveler

What exactly does that mean to 'understand clearly all the things we have done'? Does that mean we will clearly understand what was done and what wasn't, just a list of actions or does it mean that we will fully understand why it was right or wrong?

What versus Why... of course "Why" would also have to include "What" so really it is a question of whether 'perfect knowledge' includes just the "What" or is it "What + Why".

For example, if I choose not to participate in Eternal Marriage and the covenants thereof (this is a made up example), I will upon my resurrection understand all the principles and laws surrounding Eternal Marriage and the eternal reasons for eternal marriage and everything that comes of it and what was lost by not participating in it or will I just know that I lost X amount of glory without fully understanding why?

[skippy740]

So, are you saying that the "perfect knowledge" is just a perfect understanding of our status with God? It is not an understanding then of the actual sin or righteous act, it is like getting a report card without necessarily getting the answers to the final exam, just the score.

I guess I have always considered this a time where you get to see where the mistakes were and what the correct answers were, not just fully understanding how much you got wrong and right.

Well for me, to understand things, they have to be put into a perspective.

A perspective is a comparison between two (or more) things.

A good question to ask when evaluating something is "compared to what?"

To have a perfect knowledge, I think of what we need to compare our knowledge with. That would be with the glory and perfection of our Father in Heaven.

When we truly can understand God and His Glory, and we compare ourselves to Him... and how our sins keep us from progressing... THAT'S when I feel that we'll have a more "perfect" understanding.

Some sins we simply might not know how they are spiritually damaging to ourselves... especially when we're in the middle of an addiction or habit. Our own natural minds can hide and conceal the truth of it from us... until we begin to break ourselves free of such physical cravings.

Now WHEN we get this perfect knowledge, is another story. Do we get it in this life? Is that possible for most of us? Most of us will not get the 2nd Comforter in this life.

Our good gauge of how we're doing is in the temple recommend questions. If you don't have one, that's the goal to have. If you have one, then working on perfecting ourselves from that point and doing more as we are able.

[jayanna]

I have always thought of this moment being described as the moment when we will suddenly have full use of our entire brain capacity.

I also think that the sins that will plague us are the sins that we do not repent of, thus creating our misery....if we have misery...or joy in knowing that those sins are no longer.

[Traveler]

What exactly does that mean to 'understand clearly all the things we have done'? Does that mean we will clearly understand what was done and what wasn't, just a list of actions or does it mean that we will fully understand why it was right or wrong?

What versus Why... of course "Why" would also have to include "What" so really it is a question of whether 'perfect knowledge' includes just the "What" or is it "What + Why".

For example, if I choose not to participate in Eternal Marriage and the covenants thereof (this is a made up example), I will upon my resurrection understand all the principles and laws surrounding Eternal Marriage and the eternal reasons for eternal marriage and everything that comes of it and what was lost by not participating in it or will I just know that I lost X amount of glory without fully understanding why?

Joseph Smith said that truth is the knowledge of the way things were, the way they are and what they will become. In your example of eternal marriage I believe you will understand the damage in breaking generations of family - of children unprepared and generations lost. Of ancestors sacrificing for your generation and you betraying them for personal pleasures. I believe it is all about others not so much each of us as individuals. It will not be our pain but the pain we caused others.

In addition I think we will understand the pain and suffering Jesus went through in our behalf and knowing that we could of help lift his burden but we left him to suffer alone. I believe un-repented sin will be unbearable when we understand the damage it caused to those we love and that love us.

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

Joseph Smith said that truth is the knowledge of the way things were, the way they are and what they will become. In your example of eternal marriage I believe you will understand the damage in breaking generations of family - of children unprepared and generations lost. Of ancestors sacrificing for your generation and you betraying them for personal pleasures. I believe it is all about others not so much each of us as individuals. It will not be our pain but the pain we caused others.

In addition I think we will understand the pain and suffering Jesus went through in our behalf and knowing that we could of help lift his burden but we left him to suffer alone. I believe un-repented sin will be unbearable when we understand the damage it caused to those we love and that love us.

The Traveler

In that case, then, I think if a person lives all the principles of the gospel in this life then all knowledge will be poured out to them at that moment. Through the resurrection we will have all knowledge, a perfect knowledge. We may not have all the experience but knowledge would be perfect. Progression, then, at that point would just be in terms of experience, which overlaps with knowledge but we would know all things as they are to be, just a matter of jumping through those hoops.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I have always thought of this moment being described as the moment when we will suddenly have full use of our entire brain capacity.

I also think that the sins that will plague us are the sins that we do not repent of, thus creating our misery....if we have misery...or joy in knowing that those sins are no longer.

As one who has studied neuroanatomy, I am not sure where this idea comes from that 'we have more capacity then we use' is out there. I think there is a perception that parts of the brain lay dormant and not being used. That is impossible, brain cells die off if not being used. By the time a person reached puberty, typically, we have the most brain cells we are intended to have as those not being used have died off.

The only way to increase the use of "brain capacity" in the sense that I think everyone is trying to say with that term is by having a totally different brain. ... which may be the case in resurrection, that may be how we obtain 'perfect knowledge' with the resurrection, it is hard-wired into the brain we receive.

A computer may have the capacity to run various programs but if you turned them on all at the same time, the computer would freeze. Our brains are similar, we may have the capacity to do certain things at any given time but it wasn't intended to run all the things at the same time, maybe that is where the perception is that we have unused capacity. But, again, to do that we would need a totally different type of brain.

I think the truth to the capacity issue, is that people realize, through the light of Christ, that we are a fallen people, our bodies have less capacity compared to our spiritual capacity and so the perception is that it is our brain that we are not using, where really it is the mismatch between the spirit and the body.

[Martain]

I believe that the full understanding of what it means to have 'perfect knowledge' as you indicate above to be one of the mysteries of God.

That being said... interchange knowledge with rememberance and see how that makes you feel. Perhaps also an in dept study of 'Knowledge' in the scriptures through the topical guide might help you as well.